Why the Ban on Chloroforming is Stupid

[athenaartemis]

Hello Everyone,

As most of us probably know, the credit card cartels have engaged in a campaign to ban "knockout scenes" from our genre. They do this because ... well I admit it. I don't understand why they do it. Here is why this ban is stupid.

I was in the gym today waging my ongoing losing battle of the bulge watching I think it is called "Jonny Test" on the cartoon network. Hey it passes the time on those machines of unspeakable torture otherwise known as exercise. I preemptively apologize to any cartoon fans if I misspelled the show's name.

At any rate, there I am watching Jonny's two genius sisters whose names continue to escape me drive an underwater, fully weaponized mobile home. Suddenly evil villains swim up behind the underwater mobile home, open the back door (without flooding the vehicle of course) and toss in cannisters of ... SLEEPING GAS. Oh my God! Of course, the two genius sisters were immediately rendered unconscious, but Jonny saved them in them in the end.

Why is it OK for Cartoon Network to show chemical knockouts on basic cable, but it's not okay for companies making credit card sales that can be tracked and verified to show the exact same content? Perhaps, someone can explain this stupidity. Frankly, I doubt it.

There is, however, a deeper issue. A number of times people have asked if there are knock out scenes in clips. Answers can cost producers all their revenues which will be frozen by the credit card cartels or those who serve them. Brothers and Sisters this is the very essence of a police state complete with informers and seizure of property without due process (Amendments 4, 5, and 6). There is no difference between oppression from a government and oppression from a corporation especially when VISA, Mastercard and Ameriocan operate a monopoly over 90% of all internet sales. Oppression is oppression. Indeed the credit card corporations are more powerful than most governments these days.

What really irks me is the whole process which is attacking our freedom. If our freedom is to be limited (for reasons unknown and logic unfathomable), let it be in the sunshine of elected legislatures and the open doors of our courtrooms not behind the closed doors of corporate bureaucracies. We did not defeat communism to have it replaced by corporatism. Thank you for your time and consideration.

[cdrei]

IIRC, depiction of chloroforming is forbidden in some countries, possibly those making up Britain? The major credit card companies are international and may be applying restrictions based on the laws of some nations where those companies are active, applying those laws then to everyone. That's my understanding of the situation, at least.

Does the restriction still apply if you purchase one of those pre-paid credit cards? My bank allows no debit card purchases from Britain, and once put a stop on my card when I tried to buy some video editing software made by a British company. They suggested that I use a pre-paid card, and everything was fine after that. But the temp card was a Visa....

The chloroform regulation, if there actually is one, seems strange. Why that, specifically? Is suffocation or more graphic violence permitted? I wonder if such a law might be based on the idea that the depiction could be seen as providing procedural instruction for chloroforming someone. Hmm. The world is strange and inconsistent.

As far as gas-based chemical knockouts go, the old Batman '66 show has them everywhere. It would be an interesting exercise to catalog all of the gassings in all of the episodes. If that were forbidden... boy. We'd never see the series on home video.

[Mr. X]

Man! What a coincidence. I was listening to Sean Hannity on the way home (no I don't normally listen to him). He and Kimberly Gilifoi (sp) were talking about a guy busted for planning to kidnap, murder and eat some young girls. So the discussion was about fetishes vs actionable items. Apparently the bad guy had researched making chloroform and planned to kidnap a list of females.

So I guess chloro is associated with "real crime" stuff which is actually bogus since there are other means. Its superstition at its finest. Kind of like anti-gun thinking on steroids. worse since chloro doesn't work like in the movies. More than likely you'll kill or coma the person and they'll poop all over themselves in the process. You're better off just using a rag full of ammonia if you just want to kill someone. I guess the thinking is if its called "sleeping gas" no one knows exactly what that is but if they mention chloroform or halothane then people can find that exact product.

Britain had some issue a bit back with strangulation and fake murder fetishes. So credit card companies went after that as well.

I think the same stigma is now on drugged drinks. In the past I remember shows had drugged drinks all the time. Now you rarely see that since Roofies are a real crime issue.

[cdrei]

Britain had a mainstream ban on showing nunchaku in broadcast or on video, at one point, too. Some VHS versions of BBC shows were edited to remove the offending items.

[Dr.Morticus]

Personally I find it frustrating that we are told constantly how we can spend our money. If the things people want to see in movies, books, cartoons, whatever are so bad and cause people to commit actions accordingly then the world would be much worse off. Any real psychologist would suggest that these actions are fantasy (fantasies mind you that many confess to having, however not openly) and any reasonable human can tell the difference. There is zero evidence that watching violence makes you violent. (however being in an ACTUAL violent environment can increase ones aggression level)

I have said this a thousand times, but if the people of this world want to stop credit card companies (or anyone of the sort for that matter) stand up and protest them. Refuse to use their services. I know that sounds hard to do, but honestly in numbers we are much louder. It all really seems to come down to other peoples views and ideals of what people should be like, I for one would like to be the leader of my own life.

[athenaartemis]

Does the restriction still apply if you purchase one of those pre-paid credit cards? My bank allows no debit card purchases from Britain, and once put a stop on my card when I tried to buy some video editing software made by a British company. They suggested that I use a pre-paid card, and everything was fine after that. But the temp card was a Visa....

The chloroform regulation, if there actually is one, seems strange. Why that, specifically? Is suffocation or more graphic violence permitted? I wonder if such a law might be based on the idea that the depiction could be seen as providing procedural instruction for chloroforming someone. Hmm. The world is strange and inconsistent.

As far as gas-based chemical knockouts go, the old Batman '66 show has them everywhere. It would be an interesting exercise to catalog all of the gassings in all of the episodes. If that were forbidden... boy. We'd never see the series on home video.

CD Rei,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can't speak to why some cards of a company are a problem and others aren't. Go figure. The ban on chloroforming is quite real here is the rule on it from C4S under "Open a Sutdio":

No Chloroform - You cannot use or imply using any type of chemical to render someone unconscious in any clips, videos or images.

[cdrei]

CD Rei,

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I can't speak to why some cards of a company are a problem and others aren't. Go figure. The ban on chloroforming is quite real here is the rule on it from C4S under "Open a Sutdio":

No Chloroform - You cannot use or imply using any type of chemical to render someone unconscious in any clips, videos or images.

In my case, I think it was because of theft of credit card numbers. All of Britain was blocked by the bank because there had been too many card numbers stolen after British transactions, or something. So a temporary card might not be a workaround in your case.

I sound like I'm bashing Britain in this thread. I'm not, really. Big fan of the BBC and British culture, me. It's just that I get started and then babble out the whole stream of associations for an idea, without necessarily thinking it through. Big problem, that. Coffee is involved. Umm.

[athenaartemis]

I have said this a thousand times, but if the people of this world want to stop credit card companies (or anyone of the sort for that matter) stand up and protest them. Refuse to use their services. I know that sounds hard to do, but honestly in numbers we are much louder. It all really seems to come down to other peoples views and ideals of what people should be like, I for one would like to be the leader of my own life.

Dr. Morticus,

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that if we want to stop the credit card cartels, we are going to have to protest them. Unfortunately, I don't think refusing to use their services is viable idea. From the clip/video/DVD producers point of view, the credit cartels don't want their business anyway so it's no lose to the credit card cartels.

From the customer's point of view, there is no place left to go. Visa, Mastercard and American Express are 90% of the market. That is a monopoly. There is no competition we can play to. There is no market correction for this problem. Living in today's world without a credit card is not a practical option. Heck the gym I was in when I was inspired to start this strand wouldn't take me without a credit card.

That leaves only the government to rein in the credit card cartels. Keep in mind these rules are private corporate not government regulations. I believe that our elected government and judicial bodies need to pass laws that prohibit private restrictions on the public's liberties and set rules that make sense like you can't ban things that are on and have been on basic cable for 60 years. If people don't like certain things, they don't have to watch.

Unfortunately, approaching the government is likely to be a painful, costly struggle. Thanks for your input.

[Dr.Morticus]

I have said this a thousand times, but if the people of this world want to stop credit card companies (or anyone of the sort for that matter) stand up and protest them. Refuse to use their services. I know that sounds hard to do, but honestly in numbers we are much louder. It all really seems to come down to other peoples views and ideals of what people should be like, I for one would like to be the leader of my own life.

Dr. Morticus,

Thanks for your thoughts. I agree that if we want to stop the credit card cartels, we are going to have to protest them. Unfortunately, I don't think refusing to use their services is viable idea. From the clip/video/DVD producers point of view, the credit cartels don't want their business anyway so it's no lose to the credit card cartels.

From the customer's point of view, there is no place left to go. Visa, Mastercard and American Express are 90% of the market. That is a monopoly. There is no competition we can play to. There is no market correction for this problem. Living in today's world without a credit card is not a practical option. Heck the gym I was in when I was inspired to start this strand wouldn't take me without a credit card.

That leaves only the government to rein in the credit card cartels. Keep in mind these rules are private corporate not government regulations. I believe that our elected government and judicial bodies need to pass laws that prohibit private restrictions on the public's liberties and set rules that make sense like you can't ban things that are on and have been on basic cable for 60 years. If people don't like certain things, they don't have to watch.

Unfortunately, approaching the government is likely to be a painful, costly struggle. Thanks for your input.

Yes I can agree with you and would like to also point out that we are forced to live by plastic in this world, and then punished for it. May places have started to charge fees for the use of credit cards, go figure. I paid my water bill today and if I were to send in a check I would save my self the whole $3.50 fee for using a credit card. Outrageous. On one hand they demand you use credit, then charge you for it. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in California they even charge higher gas prices for use of a credit card. Even the company I formerly worked for (which I ran the IT department of) choose to charge a fee for buying tickets online. Not because it cost us anything to run them for the customer, but because they could and wanted to earn more money. I am all for companies earning all they can, but to call it a "service charge" and claim it costs that much to process is a bold faced lie. With the volume we did, it hardly mattered at all. The consumer is being drained bit by bit and I can't see anyone fixing it but the consumers. You see the government is really no better (here in the USA is where I speak from), they too have many pointless taxes, and while much of it seems good the truth is we are crushing our people with them. Much of the money does not go where it claims to go and funds run dry quickly. I can speak as one American (I am sure many others have different views), but I am tired of the government doing anything but governing. They seem to spend more time in the private lives of citizens these days (i.e. gay marriage, soda size laws, abortion) it sickens me. The people are to choose these things for themselves, the government is to govern the land, up hold laws, and protect the people. That's it.

The reason I say it is up to the people is that I am not suggesting not using credits cards for SHiP, but in general. The total cost (once interest, fees, ect.) are applied is much greater that the sale price. They are providing a service, not a moral guidance system.

Just my two cents lol

[Mr. X]

Well people could try bit coin.

[swampy170]

Whoa now, why do you think this is a British thing?

The two big card providers are American, it's an American problem - specifically the prudes that are in government and run big business.

Sure, we Brits have many problems with the government acting as a nanny state - but we still have a booming porn industry, all-be-it a very subverted one. It's just not proper to work in porn.


The card providers love to throw their weight around - look at wikileaks. Anything that the bosses don't like gets it's ass kicked. Apparently the bosses aren't a great fan of fetish clips, though they do seem to love porn.

Case in point would be Batfxxx which has a sleeping gas scene, and is publicised as such - but it's mainstream porn, not fetish. So totally acceptable.

Bullshit you say? .. Couldn't agree more!

[MightyHypnotic]

Most of us who have the fetish "get" where it comes from. 60's - 80's TV. We know it doesn't have any sinister connotations, but the general public has no idea.
Tell someone that you want to bang some hot chick and no one raises an eye (porn). Tell them you want to knock them out and tie them up, completely different story (fetish).

It doesn't help that chloroform pops up in places like the Casey Anthony case. As a matter of fact, about 8 years ago there was a widely publicized case in NYC where a guy chloroformed some girl, comitted a crime, led police in a multi-state manhunt, taunting them the whole time and ended up in a campus in Atlanta, I believe. Not very good press for chloro.

While I was trying to find the details for THAT story, I found THIS story where, again, the criminal was researching chloroform.

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/crime/nyc-jury ... ase/nWprm/

Rules and restrictions evolve and they get worse as time goes on and it's all because there is someone, who is associated with the CC company or the processing service ,who is looking at the material and passing judgement on whether it should be allowed or not.
It's not someone you'll ever be able to talk to, to plead your case or get the judgement overturned. (And who the hell would want to try and explain it, anyway?) Their judgement is final and the credit card companies could care less about you. This is a key point.

Its a losing game. I know there are a lot of you that get pissed because we produce less knockout scenes but there isn't anything anyone can do. You might say "so and so" is doing it, how do they get away with it?
The answer is, they get away with it. They haven't been caught yet.

[athenaartemis]

Most of us who have the fetish "get" where it comes from. 60's - 80's TV. We know it doesn't have any sinister connotations, but the general public has no idea.
Tell someone that you want to bang some hot chick and no one raises an eye (porn). Tell them you want to knock them out and tie them up, completely different story (fetish).

It doesn't help that chloroform pops up in places like the Casey Anthony case. As a matter of fact, about 8 years ago there was a widely publicized case in NYC where a guy chloroformed some girl, comitted a crime, led police in a multi-state manhunt, taunting them the whole time and ended up in a campus in Atlanta, I believe. Not very good press for chloro.

While I was trying to find the details for THAT story, I found THIS story where, again, the criminal was researching chloroform.

http://www.ajc.com/ap/ap/crime/nyc-jury ... ase/nWprm/

Rules and restrictions evolve and they get worse as time goes on and it's all because there is someone, who is associated with the CC company or the processing service ,who is looking at the material and passing judgement on whether it should be allowed or not.
It's not someone you'll ever be able to talk to, to plead your case or get the judgement overturned. (And who the hell would want to try and explain it, anyway?) Their judgement is final and the credit card companies could care less about you. This is a key point.

Its a losing game. I know there are a lot of you that get pissed because we produce less knockout scenes but there isn't anything anyone can do. You might say "so and so" is doing it, how do they get away with it?
The answer is, they get away with it. They haven't been caught yet.

MH,

Your analysis of this problem's causes, its process and its inconsistency between different producers and vendors is dead on. My question to us all: fans, producers and citizens of a free republic is What are we going to do about this corporate rape of our freedom?

Do we hide under our sheets like frightened children and hope for the best? Seems a little unworthy and very unrealistic.

Living without plastic in this world is not terribly realistic. You certainly can't do business on the internet without credit cards. There is no market competition in the credit card industry. Sooner or later you end at the closed doors of the Big Three's axis of hypocrisy.

That leaves us with either suing in court to end these bans or petioning Congress to prohibit bans on items that are already available on cable.

Either one of these paths is fraught with peril. Those who take this path will have to step into a nasty public debate that will hurt them and those they care about. Not only could we fail but these ridiculous bans could become enshrined in Judicial and/or Congessional law.

I suppose at some point the credit card cartels will go too far. Someone will get angry and sue or force Congress' hand. The rest of us will then have a choice to make: let fight them and in all likelihood be destroyed alone or step into the public sunlight and fight at their side.

I think the phrase is United we stand. Divided we fall. I think I remember reading that somewhere. Thanks for reading and contributing.

[Mr. X]

Oh is that why there are less and less chloro scenes? I was wondering that. I thought people just got burned out on it.

[viking]

Athenaartamis ask what are people going to do about it. The unpleasant answer is to forgo the convenience of credit purchases of a specific video and pay for a "membership" in a specific website which permits the purchase of videos from that site until the membership "expires" (money in account is used up). This would involve the use of checks or money orders and the dreaded snail mail. It would mean inconvenience for the buyer and seller, but would bypass Clips4Sale and the credit card vendors. If things continue in the present direction this may be necessary. I hope it doesn't come to this.

[Mr. X]

Bit coin maybe a solution to that. One buys bit coins by whatever means then the bit coins are used to buy products. So a person can load up with bit coins ahead of time.

[mistuhgone10]

Now that's a damn shame. It just goes to show the reach of the Prude Police knows no bounds

[ovid36]

Not to get all political, but this is exactly why I'm a Libertarian. It's actually funny because there are so many anti-gun nuts out there and yet movies and tv shows are just chock full of bullety goodness. I am willing to bet that more crimes involve guns than chloroform. Hell you can see someone get injected or slipped a roofie in a movie no problem which is probably 99.9% more likely to happen than chloroforming.

On another note, does this apply to gas scenes or just chloro? I happen to like gas better (yes member of the Batman generation). Is there a reason why it is so hard to do a good gas scene btw? Meaning a Batman-type one.

Is making pretty-colored smoke come out of an object like an umbrella difficult? I'm seriously asking for any producer types.

[Mr. X]

I used to use a fog machine but that was always white smoke. My issue with the batman style gas is I don't want to blow something in a models face... um... ok maybe that doesn't sound right... but anyway I don't want her to get dust in her face etc. From what I saw on the show the smoke looked more like colored dust and air used to blow it.

As for the whole banning chloro thing it does seem extremely myopic and there is so much more gun play. Can't drug a girl but you can beat her up, shoot her, brutalize her. Heck the new Battle Star Galactica series is nothing but a chic abuse fest. Has anyone seen the latest Tomb Raider game? I saw that on Conan and I don't know why hot shorts are called exploitation but a teen girl having her face impaled on a stick, tied up in a cave full of skulls, breaking ribs and terrified to death is "real and gritty". Seems like someone else's fetish simply won out.

[gracevonsheer]

is CCBill an option - don't they specialize in credit card business for adult sites?

[Mr. X]

is CCBill an option - don't they specialize in credit card business for adult sites?

CCBill were pretty bad for me. Yes they have grandfathered in sites but try apply recently and they have strict guidelines. No women in peril. No women and guns. No bondage etc. Essentially pretty much everything off my site.

[Shakeshift]

CCBill is one of the strictest companies in terms of what they will and will not allow. I have a list of their "no-no" categories and it's literally a page long filled with some truly strange stuff that you would never think would be a red flag. They're one of the most popular billing companies, but their lean is definitely "moral."

[superheroinebabes]

Your preaching to the choir. WonderWoman was CONSTANTLY Chloroformed in the comics and even Lynda Carter in the 70s live action show (as we all know). I suppose that whole date rape drug has people connecting the dots? Or some other silly reason?