"Body-positivity" in SHIP vids and cosplay etc

[shevek]

Recently came across a fantastic tweet from Chicago cosplayer/geek/fetish model Kearstin whom I follow on Twitter. She is a geek who's very much
into comics and gaming, as well as playing the occasional superheroine in a sexy video, but she also keeps in shape and talks a lot about working out.





She is basically saying that when Tumblr 'Tards (tm) complain about the supersexy bodies of heroines in comics and movies being "unrealistic",
that is just sheer nonsense. Because in fact, those bodies are quite attainable. If they weren't, after all, the actresses in the movies, who play the superheroines, wouldn't have those bodies now would they? (Olivia Munn, Scarlet Johansson..and of course in the SHIP world all the lovely ladies we
enjoy watching so much).

I would like to point out that personally in my video series, I have some shapely women but I also have women of all body types. This is for several reasons: 1) I am friendly with a good amount of different-looking women who like to play superheroines. 2) It helps reflect the "realistic" feel of the video actually being in my city and of course 3) I can't afford to hire tons of ultra-shapely models anyway. So my situation is constrained by both finances and the friendly-neighborhood nature of my productions..not by any kind of PC gestapo decrees about body-positivity. And I'm making my videos out of sheer inspiration and creative pleasure, not to sell a million copies.

The way I see it, non-superheroic-looking people complaining that they don't "see themselves" in the geek media they consume is nonsense, and it's clearly insecure millennial narcissism and these idiot tumblr kids getting used to the Internet being a place where everything is micro-targeted, bias is confirmed in opinion echo chambers, and Facebook bots tailor ads to your needs. And all of this is after they graduate from the cushy day care center/safe space people call a university nowadays, where they are sheltered from any unwanted triggering realities.

The multi-billion dollar comic book and movie corporations don't make movies specifically for YOU..they make products that are mass-marketed to appeal to the most possible people. And most people who watch movies want the sexy ladies as part of the visual offering. If you, as the whiney blue-haired Tumblr complainer, don't like that, then you can do one of four things:

1) Put down the donuts and the pizza, get up from reading your manga and playing your video games and talking in the chatrooms. Go out and work out and get your body fucking ripped. Then you'll see that a sexy body is totally "realistic" for a lot of people.

2) Make your own media. Make a fat-positive comic like Faith. And then see if it sells. It might only reach a niche-targeted audience, or it might blow up huge. But either way, you're doing it yourself and not demanding that huge companies change their practices just for a few people.

3) Follow and support fat-positive media only. Stop worrying about whether Black Widow has a realistic body entirely, and simply do not look at her.
Only look at fat heroines. Have lots of fun doing that.

4) Stop complaining. Learn to love your own body, and stop demanding that you need to see your body shape everywhere just to feel validated.
Worship the sexy superheroines for what they are: powerful icons of perfection. And just live your own life while doing that.

Anyway that's my perspective. Let me know what you think, or if this is even an issue for anyone on here. I don't think there's been a thread about this before? (at least not in the past couple of years)

[Imagineer]

Link to the thing you're complaining about.

[sugarcoater]

Without citing specifics, I agree with much of what you write. The new trend in America seems to be victimhood and the need to make one's weaknesses, shortcomings and/or lack of success be the fault of anyone and anything other than oneself.
Yes, some curves are unattainable by some women without surgery--and as a guy I can't empathize with that but it sure would be annoying--but the healthy body is absolutely attainable. The question is, what is someone willing to do and sacrifice to accomplish that goal? As I train part-time outside my normal job, I have seen people with all sorts of limitations make incredible gains. And I have also seen people make no gains whatsoever due to choices. It just comes down to how much someone really wants to change.

And I also see too much complaining about how women in comics "should" be portrayed. Why not simply let each producer decide for him/herself? Don't like it? Don't buy it.

[Mr. X]

I'm not sure why the body positive people complain since they don't want any of the men that express interest in them anyway and any of the men they re interested in are probably of the Henry Cavil caliber of male.

[shevek]

And I also see too much complaining about how women in comics "should" be portrayed. Why not simply let each producer decide for him/herself? Don't like it? Don't buy it.

Sure, Sugarcoater.
If you like hot lipstick lesbians and men who are useless, buy Marguerite Bennett.
If you like hot straight girls and glimpses of panties, buy Frank Cho.
And so on

But yeah, regarding the "link", I don't know what specific comment Kearstin was referring to, but we're all familiar with the whole Tumblrist-millennial
"body-positivity" trend. And the way that has allowed obese Americans to squeeze into tight spandex costumes when they cosplay. I guess the question is: is there a place (or even a consumer demand) for any body positivity in SHIP? I mean, there are occasionally some big and/or hulking women in these videos, but they usually seem to play the villains.

And yes, Mr. X, there was a time when you'd automatically see the fat girl go out with the fat guy (they probably both wore fedoras and worked in the computer science department, playing D&D on weekends), but nowadays due to meteorically narcissistic levels of trophy-winning self-esteem, you're right. These body-positive Tumblr girls think so highly of themselves that they literally believe they deserve a Henry Cavill, and when they don't get one, they become the cat ladies at the Renaissance Faire. Hope that's not too harsh, but you get my point.

[arkane]

Uhm... political correctness could get to a point where beauty is discrimination and beautiful people are segregated?



[Ok, beauty is not a democratic thing. And it lasts just some years. There's no justice.... so?]

[sugarcoater]

Considering we now have "thin privilege", I'm not surprised by social changes as mentioned above.
Anything someone has that gives them an advantage seems to "need" the word "privilege" added after it, regardless of whether one had to work to achieve it. I'm now waiting for someone to mainstream "fit privilege" and make people who work hard to stay in shape somehow feel bad that they have the discipline to do so.

[Mr. X]

Uhm... political correctness could get to a point where beauty is discrimination and beautiful people are segregated?



[Ok, beauty is not a democratic thing. And it lasts just some years. There's no justice.... so?]

Considering we now have "thin privilege", I'm not surprised by social changes as mentioned above.
Anything someone has that gives them an advantage seems to "need" the word "privilege" added after it, regardless of whether one had to work to achieve it. I'm now waiting for someone to mainstream "fit privilege" and make people who work hard to stay in shape somehow feel bad that they have the discipline to do so.

Read John Rawls - A theory of Justice. This is old and has been around for a while. There can't be beauty pageants cause beautiful people already have an advantage, which they do not. If being beautiful was an advantage you would never get served in a restaurant by a pretty waitress.

[Visitor]

If being beautiful was an advantage you would never get served in a restaurant by a pretty waitress.

While eating lunch I heard the restaurant owner explain to the just hired waitress that he hired beautiful women in order to get more guys to eat at his place. He was using her as bait to lure them inside.

[Mr. X]

If being beautiful was an advantage you would never get served in a restaurant by a pretty waitress.

While eating lunch I heard the restaurant owner explain to the just hired waitress that he hired beautiful women in order to get more guys to eat at his place. He was using her as bait to lure them inside.

Advantage to him, not her. If she had an advantage she wouldn't be serving ugly people.

[shevek]

If being beautiful was an advantage you would never get served in a restaurant by a pretty waitress.

While eating lunch I heard the restaurant owner explain to the just hired waitress that he hired beautiful women in order to get more guys to eat at his place. He was using her as bait to lure them inside.

Advantage to him, not her. If she had an advantage she wouldn't be serving ugly people.

But Mr. X, you've just described patriarchy (unless of course, the restaurant owner that had that policy was also a woman...how many women
own Hooters franchises?)

[Dogfish]

The concept of a realistic superhero body seems like a contradiction in terms. I mean once you've decided that a character's body is impervious to gunfire or able to fly the physicality is neither here nor there really.

The problem seems to be that we live in an age of hypersensitivity. Somebody talks about wanting different body shapes for their heroes and suddenly all these snowflake types get triggered and start crying about how things mustn't be allowed to change.

It's the new political correctness. You can't sit down for the national anthem, you can't voice an opinion about why comics ought to better reflect their audience, and you sure as shit better not put on a four hundred year old Shakespeare play.

[batgirl1969]

Did someone say lipstick lesbian??
It is possible to be a real world heroine....of course working at a gym all week, teaching zuumba and spin class helps...it isn't easy but it can be done!!

[Richpartist]

I came here for pictures of hot girls dressed like superheroines:)

[ivandobsky]

I loathe crybullies as much as the next person but...
"body positivity" of some sorts is a good thing. If someone gets depressed about some superficial part of their appearance that they don't or can't fix, it's better that they just look on the bright side and be happy with their lot. That said, if that thing is going to lead them to a lifetime of unhappiness and an early grave, and they can do something about it, it's much better that they confront the issue.
Similarly, letting producers know what kind of media you want to purchase serves the market and is a good thing. I don't personally desire to see all my comicbook heros with a beer belly and farmers tan like mine, but each to their own.
What does grind my gears is when people push for media content not because they personally want to consume it, but because they don't want others to - either out of spite or for social engineering.

Suppose some group said of the Fast and Furious movies, or some driving videogame, that the cars depicted were not realistically affordable by the average person, who furthermore can't be expected to clean it every day, and how much shopping can you fit in a Lamborghini anyway? There should be more family hatchbacks in Fast and Furious movies.
Suppose the creators of the movie/game then stick in some family hatchbacks. All fine and good.
Suppose then the advocacy group isn't satisfied, and demand the removal of all Ferrarris, Lambos etc from the media, and the producers comply, and rebadge some of the reasonably priced cars as Ferraris. People would have a legitimate reason to feel annoyed.

[sugarcoater]

I think the very request for hatchbacks, in using your analogy, is already enough for people to be annoyed. If I go to see the tripe that is the Fast and Furious series, I want mindless fast cars and hot chicks and strong dudes. That's what I expect from that, and that's what should be given. If I want a complex family drama, then it would be awkward seeing all sorts of fast cars throughout the film.

The problem with unbridled "body positivity" is that it doesn't ask someone to make any effort for change. People need to be smart enough to decipher between the impossible, the very difficult, and the feasible. If someone has a severe health disorder that prevents them from achieving the body they want, then they need to have someone to help them appreciate themselves and not try to live up to some standard that is impossible for them.
But more often than not, I see and hear people who choose not to make the lifestyle decisions to have a healthy body complain about body image issues and the glorification of the healthy body types. I have coworkers who take to Facebook and talk about "thin privilege" and about how they don't see why they should have to work out to love their body. Yet even in such posts, there is obviously a distaste for their own body, but instead of blaming their poor dietary habits and lack of any exercise (which I know because I work with these people), they blame the media and advertisers for showing people with good physiques as being a positive--which it is!
People do judge one another based on body type, and that makes sense to me. Why wouldn't you, considering that if someone is disciplined and eats healthy, their body will reflect that. Conversely, if you make poor dietary choices and are inactive, your body will reflect that. My concern is that the "everyone gets a trophy" crowd decides to shame those with good physiques because they make others feel bad.

[DrDominator9]

You make some excellent points, ivandobsky, although the idea of a two-door beige Honda Element being driven by Vin Diesel through mad traffic does bring a huge smile to my face!

[Visitor]

Consider the James Bond movie "For Your Eyes Only" where when his car blows up he has to escape in a two cylinder engine car. No gadgets and no speed even going downhill.

[ivandobsky]

I think the very request for hatchbacks, in using your analogy, is already enough for people to be annoyed.

That's a fair point.

the idea of a two-door beige Honda Element being driven by Vin Diesel through mad traffic does bring a huge smile to my face!

Some say his middle name is "1.9 Turbo"

[Dogfish]

Car chases in ordinary cars are the best kind of car chases. Why? Because if you know the car only cost a few thousand bucks the producers will be able to use it for stunts. If the car cost tens or hundreds of thousands, congratulations, you're going to see a lot of digital effects.

Regarding the body positivity thing, I think most of it is meant to be to do with not making judgements based on people's bodies because vanity is not a meaningful indicator of good character and because also it's not really anybody's damn business what shape a person is.

I think in general the body positivity movement folks have a point too. Looking back on 90s movies like Die Hard or the Matrix, the heroes were regular looking guys. Take a look at a leading man in an action movie these days, we've gone back to the 80s with the fixation on everybody being insanely ripped. Look at that poor bastard Chris Pratt in Guardians of the Galaxy, that's not natural, that's not the shape he is meant to be. Parks and Rec is the natural shape that Chris Pratt is meant to be. But to be an action hero these days they've got that guy in a gym four hours a day.

Bring back dadbod action heroes I say. And if that means, all things being equal, we accidentally end up with the odd Christina Hendricks proportioned woman popping up in more things well I'm just going to call that a bonus.