The Expanse

[shevek]

Here is something amazing that I'm very surprised nobody has ever made a thread about on this forum. In fact, I believe I'm the only one to have ever even mentioned this TV series, even though it's been ongoing for the past 3 years on Syfy and will now be moving to Amazon.

I'm talking about The Expanse. It's probably the best science fiction TV show of the past decade. I caught wind of it easily when it began four years ago because I was already a fan of the book series and had read the first six novels (all of which are pretty long..about twice the length of most science fiction novels, and very detailed).

The Expanse builds a world a couple hundred years into the future that is way more plausible than Star Trek..among other things because it does not involve our species suddenly and willy-nilly discovering "warp drive" and launching ourselves into the galaxy where we magically make friends with a whole raft of intelligent aliens who all happen to live within easy travel range of FTL ships, and we wind up fighting only with a handful of other aliens who are not so nice.

You see, Star Trek seems to have forgotten that there is such a thing as a Solar System. And before we expand outwards into the universe (which may well happen a thousand years from now, or never at all) we are going to be spending a few centuries hanging around our own corner of space messing things up because human nature will continue to be brutal, divisive, short-sighted and greedy, and not suddenly develop into a Roddenberrian progressive utopia over a mere couple centuries.

This is what The Expanse is about: the Solar System is divided into the United Nations of Earth, the Republic of Mars, and the Outer Planets Alliance. All of them have fleets and are ripping apart the asteroid belt mining the system for resources. And on top of that, there is an alien presence but it's not some perfectly humanoid, easily comprehensible with a couple of pointy ears or antennae. The alien is a completely mysterious and utterly incomprehensibly 'proto-molecule' that has its own shapes and aims, and 'first contact' doesn't consist of 'take me to your leader' but rather all of the human factions trying to figure out what this molecule is about: can we get a sample of it, can it be used as a weapon, and what is the purpose of its incursion into our star system?

Because I was already familiar with the book series, I did not have to watch all of the episodes, and yet I still did because the action, effects, sets and character development were all very exciting and well done. Better than anything Star Trek has done in a generation, and light year ahead of the boring tropes that Star Wars has never surmounted. I watched all of Season One, decided to skip Season Two to save time (because I actually forgot about the series for a while, having pursued producing Heroineburgh and watching too many CW shows), and now I'm returning to The Expanse by plowing through most of Season Three (I'm already on Episode 5).

Spoiler

I'm enjoying Episode Three because of the intrigue of the Earth-Mars War, and the further research into the proto-molecule as it hybridizes with the human children (the effects are stunning in that regard, even though the proto-molecule monsters owe a little bit to the xenomorphs from Alien, as well as other similar aliens such as the ones from Species and Earth Final Conflict, etc).

I'm intrigued to see how the season concludes in interpreting the books that I've already read, and I hope to jump into Season 4 when Amazon rolls it out.

One of the best things about this series is how it avoids anything like taking sides in contemporary politics. The political landscape seems as complex as any in the modern world, but without any obvious political bias. It presents a diverse cast without trumpeting or bragging about it, and gives them all strengths and weaknesses we can identify with (no Mary Sues). Basically, it is a very 'realistic' style of show for making predictions about the next few hundred years in the future. All the technology looks fantastic, too.

I can't believe that nobody else on this forum is watching The Expanse because it is definitely right up the alley of a whole bunch of you out there in sci-fi / superhero land. So please weigh in on what you think about this series, which is quietly garnering tons of acclaim without really breaking into the mainstream zeitgeist (although its fanbase is still formidable enough to prevent it from being cancelled last year). I know a lot of Star Trek and Star Wars fans who have never even heard of The Expanse - they need to be informed!

expanse.jpg (3.08 MiB) Viewed 3566 times

[LuciaFilms]

I have friends who swear by this show. It is definitely on my to-do list!

[lionbadger]

excellently spoiling 3 seasons of story arc there sun while still slipping in the obligatory reference to your perpetual butthurtness

Spacedock is the guy to go to for Expanse, there will be some spoilers in these videos.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... dpw49yHHsb

[Dazzle1]

When it comes to Amazon, I will try it.

Do you know when?

[Dogfish]

It's a decent show. Has a few problems due to too many characters who are total dickheads for no reason and too many other characters who are embarrassingly nice. Mostly it's good though. Has a very cool approach to space travel and combat.

[shevek]

Come on let's be realistic re 'spoilers', this series has been out for four years now..people should be at least getting a taste of Season 3 by this point if they've heard of the series and enjoyed it....and I didn't 'spoil' anything from Season 3 (which was last year's season), nor did I go much beyond the description of what's on the dust jackets of the books to begin with.

Along with the Deus Ex Machina protomolecule stuff (which does have whiffs of 2001 Space Odyssey and Event Horizon, now that I think about it) there is (as Dogfish) points out really cool and original approaches to space travel and spaceship design, unbelievable amounts of 'corridor fetish', great combat fights and space battles, and a fair amount of very applicable science (such as the smallest of bleeding wounds being unable to heal in Zero G, etc.). I'm up to Season 3 Episode 9 and will say no more, other than that there are tons of revelations, twists and turns, changes in loyalty, and so on. No wonder that 100,00 fans clamored for a Season Four. I just don't know a lot of them, I guess.

Once again, what Lionbadger ascribes to 'butthurtness', I ascribe to solid hard science fiction writing at its finest that pays close attention to well-developed strong female characters. Ideally for maximum relatability, you want something that's not too much Robert Heinlein but not too much Octavia Butler either, and that's what you get here.

[Femina]

Just use the spoiler tags?

I love the Expanse, great show.... not as good as BSG was, but still very good.

[shevek]

I just put the spoiler tags on the paragraph I wrote about Season 3 - everything else is really just a general summary, it doesn't really give anything away. Now on Episode 10.

[Dazzle1]

I watch the first episode it takes some ideas from the Island World series by John Roberts and Eric Kotani.

It is scary if the U.N is running Earth

[shevek]

I watch the first episode it takes some ideas from the Island World series by John Roberts and Eric Kotani.

It is scary if the U.N is running Earth

As I mentioned, there are definitely parts that are very Heinleinian (going back to Moon Is a Harsh Mistress where, speaking of your UN comment, there's the Federated Nations of Earth) so it's not surprising that it would also remind you of Yoji Kondo (aka Eric Kotani) who was a friend and admirer of Heinlein. The way in which humans 'conquer' the Solar System and bend it to their will, as well as the will of individuals to revolt against collectivist thought, is very Heinleinian, as is the attitude of the Belters which is close to his 'Rational Anarchism.' But the way in which the inscrutable alien artifact/intelligence (the Monoliths, Rama) becomes both a threat and an opportunity for humanity is very much Arthur C. Clarke.

Another great thing about it is that indeed there are also sufficient elements of social sci-fi thrown in as well (like LeGuin or Butler, both of whom I understand and enjoy) to 'soften' the harsh edges of the series, but they inform and do not overwhelm or poison the main narrative. The subplot of the Methodist pastor, for example - she's a bleeding-heart but ultimately realizes the limits of what compassion alone can accomplish ("I do what needs to be done" can have multiple meanings, as we see in a certain interaction she has.), and the ex-Secretary General, Avasarala, has a level of diplomatic idealism tempered with pragmatism. What certain doctrinaire types seem to forget in their recent rush to condemn legends like Heinlein is that he incorporated 'diversity' into his character rosters long before almost anyone else in works like Harsh Mistress. The Expanse is in fact a pinnacle of a long tradition of what writers like him started.

Also, on a more visual note, if you keep watching all the establishing shots, the models of the spaceships are detailed, intricate and amazing.
The interior of the Mormon generation ship (used by the Outer Planets Alliance) is also incredible. If you're looking for direct relevance to Battlestar Galactica, that's easy - BSG is an allegory for Mormonism anyway (the 12 Tribes searching for the 13th Lost Tribe of Earth) so the reference is right there.

Now on Season 3 finale, Episode 13.

[Dazzle1]

I watch the first episode it takes some ideas from the Island World series by John Roberts and Eric Kotani.

It is scary if the U.N is running Earth

As I mentioned, there are definitely parts that are very Heinleinian (going back to Moon Is a Harsh Mistress where, speaking of your UN comment, there's the Federated Nations of Earth) so it's not surprising that it would also remind you of Yoji Kondo (aka Eric Kotani) who was a friend and admirer of Heinlein. The way in which humans 'conquer' the Solar System and bend it to their will, as well as the will of individuals to revolt against collectivist thought, is very Heinleinian, as is the attitude of the Belters which is close to his 'Rational Anarchism.' But the way in which the inscrutable alien artifact/intelligence (the Monoliths, Rama) becomes both a threat and an opportunity for humanity is very much Arthur C. Clarke.

Another great thing about it is that indeed there are also sufficient elements of social sci-fi thrown in as well (like LeGuin or Butler, both of whom I understand and enjoy) to 'soften' the harsh edges of the series, but they inform and do not overwhelm or poison the main narrative. The subplot of the Methodist pastor, for example - she's a bleeding-heart but ultimately realizes the limits of what compassion alone can accomplish ("I do what needs to be done" can have multiple meanings, as we see in a certain interaction she has.), and the ex-Secretary General, Avasarala, has a level of diplomatic idealism tempered with pragmatism. What certain doctrinaire types seem to forget in their recent rush to condemn legends like Heinlein is that he incorporated 'diversity' into his character rosters long before almost anyone else in works like Harsh Mistress. The Expanse is in fact a pinnacle of a long tradition of what writers like him started.

Also, on a more visual note, if you keep watching all the establishing shots, the models of the spaceships are detailed, intricate and amazing.
The interior of the Mormon generation ship (used by the Outer Planets Alliance) is also incredible. If you're looking for direct relevance to Battlestar Galactica, that's easy - BSG is an allegory for Mormonism anyway (the 12 Tribes searching for the 13th Lost Tribe of Earth) so the reference is right there.

Now on Season 3 finale, Episode 13.

Give me time, i don't tv binge anymore.

But thanks for identifying Kotani, i had wondered who it was

[Dogfish]

The Earth is basically America in the series, Mars is the USSR and the Belters are orcs.

[shevek]

And by "orcs" you euphemistically mean Third World / Global South / Others/ POCs etc. (just guessing, I could be wrong)
Nothing new about this three-way breakdown: science fiction writers have been breaking things down in this manner since during the height of the Cold War.

For example, in LeGuin's The Dispossessed: the capitalist/patriarchal A-Io, the authoritarian/socialist Thu, and the anarcho-syndicalist Anarres.
The only difference is that before the current wave of cultural Marxism, these divisions were delineated by political ideology, or at most, class.

Now, a brand-new writer who addresses different societies would be more likely to divide them on the basis of immutable identity politics, such as the 2017 novel Unkindness of Ghosts, which posits strict divisions on a generation ship based on race, gender and neuro-atypicality (basically, autism) like an Afro-futurist Handmaid's Tale in Space. At least, the kind of writer that would receive acclaim by current gatekeepers. Nothing wrong with writing a book like that, of course, except that I personally don't see those types of divisions defining humanity that far into the future. Certainly The Expanse doesn't, despite its lack of Star Trek Pollyanna-ism.

The fact that the Expanse ignores the Current Year immutable definitions of 'identity' (or mashes them up into an unrecognizably diverse patois) and buries them between a shared humanity that is divided only by grudges and misunderstandings that can be overcome through struggle and common goals is heartening and inspiring, as well as realistic. There is nothing to prevent two people who disagree from sitting down and having a beer together other than the unwillingness to do so. The stubbornness is driven by extremes of attitude - such extremes are thankfully continuously altered by character interaction in The Expanse. The alignments shift, but the only thing we can predict is that the crew of the Roci will always somehow be in the middle of it since they are the main characters of the series.

[saxman314]

Watch Expanse, play Elite-Dangerous, FA-off, ignore the political whines: bliss.

[Dogfish]

Watch Expanse, play Elite-Dangerous, FA-off, ignore the political whines: bliss.

o7 CMDR

[Dogfish]

And by "orcs" you euphemistically mean Third World / Global South / Others/ POCs etc. (just guessing, I could be wrong)
Nothing new about this three-way breakdown: science fiction writers have been breaking things down in this manner since during the height of the Cold War.

For example, in LeGuin's The Dispossessed: the capitalist/patriarchal A-Io, the authoritarian/socialist Thu, and the anarcho-syndicalist Anarres.
The only difference is that before the current wave of cultural Marxism, these divisions were delineated by political ideology, or at most, class.

Now, a brand-new writer who addresses different societies would be more likely to divide them on the basis of immutable identity politics, such as the 2017 novel Unkindness of Ghosts, which posits strict divisions on a generation ship based on race, gender and neuro-atypicality (basically, autism) like an Afro-futurist Handmaid's Tale in Space. At least, the kind of writer that would receive acclaim by current gatekeepers. Nothing wrong with writing a book like that, of course, except that I personally don't see those types of divisions defining humanity that far into the future. Certainly The Expanse doesn't, despite its lack of Star Trek Pollyanna-ism.

The fact that the Expanse ignores the Current Year immutable definitions of 'identity' (or mashes them up into an unrecognizably diverse patois) and buries them between a shared humanity that is divided only by grudges and misunderstandings that can be overcome through struggle and common goals is heartening and inspiring, as well as realistic. There is nothing to prevent two people who disagree from sitting down and having a beer together other than the unwillingness to do so. The stubbornness is driven by extremes of attitude - such extremes are thankfully continuously altered by character interaction in The Expanse. The alignments shift, but the only thing we can predict is that the crew of the Roci will always somehow be in the middle of it since they are the main characters of the series.

No I mean orcs. The global south is full of humans doing human things. They're often broke as shit but the majority of them, like people everywhere, are good people. In The Expanse the Belters are drawn more like the orcs from Lord of the Rings, they have no humanity towards others, they're mutated and weird, they talk funny and they'll chuck you out of an airlock for no reason at all.

It's not a surprise to see things broken down like that, as you say it's standard, in fact it's sort of the whole point of sci fi/fantasy, to ask the Socratic questions of 'What if WW2 but in space?' or 'What if medieval times but monsters'. It's just that the Expanse, at least the TV show, is quite aggressive in how it portrays the dispossessed as going full space goblin very quickly.

Compare it to something like Total Recall, which has a very similar set up on its Mars colony, the air is bad, mutations are common, people are dirt poor and controlled by access to necessities like water and air by uncaring corporations. But in Total Recall, the Martians and their rebellion were the heart of the movie. They were the good guys. In the Expanse they're all arseholes (except the hero one, but she doesn't look like a Belter, talk like a Belter or act like a Belter).

It's an interesting take in The Expanse because usually the poor and huddled masses are the good guys. If you think of stories like Robin Hood or Star Wars it's the downtrodden you're cheering for.

[arkane]

Maybe I've seen another show, but IMHO the Belters are not "orcs." They are portrayed as poor, often ignorant and violent folks - with several reasons to be that way - but not just plain "evil." Exploited, treated as cannon fodder or guinea pigs and so on... still many of them have willpower, identity and dignity.

[shevek]

Dogfish - Arkane is right. You must not have gotten very far into the series. It's not that the poor and huddled masses aren't the "good guys" - it's just that this isn't Star Wars or Star Trek. The Expanse is *realistic* politically instead of idealistic, so that there are 'good guys' and 'bad guys' on all sides, and some of them wind up switching sides additionally. The heroes in the story are extraordinary individuals, like in Heinlein's works, those who venture strenuously far beyond the pale of an average person's effort.

The Belters are quite heroic and far from space goblins, and they are *very much* like a Global South except that they are united by their general hardscrabble demeanor and off-the-cuff pioneering ingenuity. If anything, I would also add that they're a metaphor of frontiersmen from any given country's colonial history (American West, Russian Siberia, South African Boers, Brazilian interior, Australian outback, and so on). I don't want to say any more because that will give away major plot points, but you definitely need to watch much further into the three seasons.

BTW, I'm really glad that there is some solid discussion and fandom here for what is undoubtedly the best science fiction show on television.

[Dogfish]

Nah the Belters are gobbos. I've seen all three seasons and they're a more organised take on the Reavers from Firefly. They've not quite gone as far as to stick spikes and skulls on their ships but they're not far off. They claim space as their own and try to kill or steal from anybody who ventures outside of a planet's atmosphere. Dawes even has a nice speech about how Earthers should stay on Earth.

The books seem to expand more on this as well. The TV series isn't there yet though.

[shevek]

Sure, to some extent the Belters are like the Reavers or even the Mad Max road warriors, but they also show real depth of character that belies their exclusionary barbarian nature. I don't want to delve too much into spoilers, but the names Naomi Nagata and Camina Drummer stand out as valiant examples. And remember that the leader of OPA, Fred Johnson, is a former UNN colonel.

Maybe the problem is that the TV series doesn't always show the Belters in the most brutal light that it should. Probably one of the worst castings is the kid who is Ashford's young right-hand man - he looks like a blinkered idiot from a cosplay contest instead of the 'wild boy' he should be. Anyway, I'm kind of Team OPA because to me, the spirit of the OPA is pretty similar to the maverick attitude of the crew of the Roci (who are, after all, the central characters in the series).

[saxman314]

Watch Expanse, play Elite-Dangerous, FA-off, ignore the political whines: bliss.

o7 CMDR

Heh. o7

[shevek]

Wow, I forgot how much I was able to hold my own in this thread Hopefully Dogfish has softened his take on The Expanse as dabbling in mere "Space Otherism" and re-evaluated it for the wider tapestry that it is.

The sociopolitical complexity of The Expanse still stands as unique among contemporary sci-fi shows, however, and from what I've read, Season 4 promises to ramp up the "space western" feel, so hopefully Star Wars fans can be enticed to cross over and discover it if they haven't yet.

The fourth season of The Expanse comes out, all ten episodes at once, on Fri Dec 13.

I am going to a hard time resisting the urge to binge it in my hotel room on Friday night (the way we did with The Boys at a Con this past spring) but we have to get up early in the morning for Big Apple Con so I'll just have to wait until we get home to devour this next week.

Anyone who wants to comment on it before then is of course encouraged to do so. "Cant" wait to see what lies beyond the Ring Gate. What a great time for science-fiction!

[Dogfish]

I'm amazed by the shows Amazon are just willing to drop out into the world for people to binge, The Expanse ought to be a bigger deal than it is. Or maybe I'm just saying that cos am starved of good TV this season.

[lionbadger]

I'm amazed by the shows Amazon are just willing to drop out into the world for people to binge, The Expanse ought to be a bigger deal than it is. Or maybe I'm just saying that cos am starved of good TV this season.

Expanse was saved by the fan reaction to, was it Sci Fi?, dropping it so it is loved by people who've seen it and Amazon must have seen dollah signs to rescue it

I think I posted this before but this youtube chap, Spacedock did some work alongside the Expanse team to break down the ships, first is here

[ivandobsky]

Just caught with this. Very moreish, nice spaceships, a bit ridiculous. It seemed to end halfway through series 3, though it's worth sticking it out to the end for one particularly irritating character to have something particularly satisfying befall them. Oftentimes it seems like the writers didn't watch the rest of the series, and the belters sound like jar jar binks lorra lorra blinda data. Still good though. Will binge series 4 before my amazon prime free trial expires.

[Dogfish]

Welp watched the new season. Space goblins doing goblin stuff and the rest could have just been an incredibly bloated episode of Star Trek.

When's the next one?

[shevek]

Finished the season! I thought the world-building on Ilus was interesting enough (unfortunately, it's a planet with an extremely grim, blue-gray palette) and there were several individuals among the Belters who proved to be developed characters rather than just 'goblins'.

Other than that, don't want to spoil the fun of everyone watching what is essentially an extended 1970s space opera and, yes, a really long episode of Star Trek.

I guess there are only a few things I'm wondering about: 1) firstly, how Holden's personality can remain so relentlessly positive, heroic and 'sensitive guy' even among the harshest realities of both physical and mental torment. I'd like to see him break down a little.

2) how, in the space of a few hundred years, the diversity of human ethnicity has been so completely replaced by the identity of the three 'nations' (Earth, Mars, OPA) that you never see any evidence whatsoever of ethno-cultural specificity. Avasarala obviously wears traditional Indian garb yet no mention is ever made of it. You never hear anyone talk about how they like listening to rap music, or how they miss their Italian mother's cooking, or when it's time to fast for Ramadan. Star Trek eliminated many of those distinctions, as well, but not even to the extent that the Expanse does.

3) If the focus is shifting back to events inside the Solar System, are we going to get more extra-terrestrial adventures in Season 5? I sincerely hope so.

[shevek]

This is just tangential, but it's related, and I found it interesting.

A couple nights ago, I came across Roland Emmerich's 10,000 B.C. (having not heard of it before) movie from 2008, and being a huge fan of Quest For Fire, I figured I'd check it out and see if it was in the same vein. Actually, it was a bit more like a Conan movie without the magic, but it was entertaining enough.

And what did I notice much to my surprise? The lead character, a sensitive and determined hero of the ancient world named D'Leh, is playing by Steven Strait, the same actor who plays James Holden in The Expanse (imagine Holden in lots of dreadlocks). Apparently he does have a specific typecast!