Piracy

[getoffthshed12000]

It seems like this topic gets brought up every few months. We can go round and round for ages, but nothing will be solved. Producers are always going to be against their content being distributed for free. Piracy is illegal, and does hurt the producer, though not to the level of every pirated download= lost sale. But no one can rationally argue that they don't lose some money. What I don't understand are the people who actually post content. I can understand a trade with someone; producers may not like it, but that's impossible to control. But just putting content up for freeloaders to steal? I've probably spent thousands of dollars over the years collecting various fetish videos, there's no way I'm going to just give it away!

On the flip side, producers who take such a hard stance against pirates start to push away paying customers. It's the same in the mainstream; when companies like EA try to crack down on piracy by hurting their customers, it causes an uproar and hurts their image. Streaming was mentioned before; I for one would not like that. If I'm paying for a video, I want that video, and I want to be able to watch it whenever I want, as many times as I want. I don't want to go through a website, or pay some kind of membership fee. Just take Hypnotics' site as an example. He caters to different fetishes and tastes, I only buy videos that contain hypno/mc content, and usually not hardcore stuff. I like to be able to pick and choose what videos to buy, not pay for a monthly membership. But I digress.

The point is, producers: appreciate your loyal customers, and when you do see your content put out there, don't attack everyone. Take action against the pirates themselves, find out what your legal options are. At the same time, understand that you'll never completely stop piracy; to an extent it's the price of doing this type of business.

[Rye]

I responded to his question which was "Am I wrong" in regards to the First sale Doctrine. My answer was not an attack at jobberlover or out of line IMO. He asked a question and I answered it...

Before you respond you should understand that I actually agree with you... I agree with your thoughts on piracy. Now your statement was far more colorful than I would have put it but I do agree with what you said. 1 pirated movie does not = a lost sale... not even close. I'm sure some producers might disagree with me and thats fine. Everyone probably has an opinion on this.

The issue I personally have with piracy has little to do with money, it's time... Piracy is a BIG time suck. Its not as easy as just taking a few seconds and sending an email. If that was the case I wouldn't care.

Coming across a 150 page thread with dozens of posts in each thread that loads at the speed of poop is not fun. There are tons of sites out there that update constantly so keeping up on it becomes a job. A few of us producer types stay in communication when we find or are alerted to new threads its still a pain in the arse

I have noticed that there are a lot of newer producers who aren't keeping up on piracy but I still don't think its really affecting their sales much if any.

[swampy170]

Not a huge fan of the repost, but wth.

It is fair enough, streaming isn't for everyone - but you could do something along the lines of SHC, but with the entire backlog available to stream. Producers only have to condsider the popularity of sites like netflix or lovefilm to realise this could be a game changer.

Sure, people don't like streaming - so perhaps offer different packages, where you pay different amounts depending on the access.

Also encoding videos is a possibility, it's possible to make the file uneditable too - BBC iplayer is excellent at this, very secure downloading system.

Things to consider.

[Ninja J.]

Not sure what the original poster is talking about. I agree any post about piracy promotes it but I'm not seeing any producers starting threads about it. The producers I've seen have been surprisingly gentle but firmly against those wanting to sell their material or asking for free vids. That's hardly hostility. So, I have no idea where this notion that producers are being hostile to their fans is coming from, or maybe I just somehow overlooked it or just never got that vibe. I don't know. I think its awesome producers communicate with the fans on this site, and I hope they continue to do so even if people's feelings get hurt from time to time.

[MightyHypnotic]

As Spiderman once said...

[Dr.Morticus]

I too am apart of the crowd explaining the laws and troubles with piracy. I second Rye's comment and would add this:

Both this post and the comments on the post in reference are directly from each side of the table. On one side we have the world of producers, the other the world of consumers.

If you agree, keep reading.

The customer spends a lot of money on the products they love, perhaps even pirates one from time to time.

The producer makes films that would other wise not existed based on 1)their interest in the material 2)the ability to make money doing what they are interested in. (maybe more reasons, but those are just some simple ones)

I feel (yes only my personal opinion of course) that instead of insisting one side is at fault we come to realize some facts.

Producers understand their side of the table well. They live it. Some (more likely than one might think) may remember being the customer.

Customers likewise see their side of the table well.

How can anyone speak such harsh and finger pointing things without truly knowing where the other is coming from?

Blaming any one party is completely worthless in my opinion.

I hope this does not come across negatively, honestly not my intention. However, I figured why not toss it out there and see if anyone cared to agree.

Now can we get back to watching amazing beautiful superheroines?

[MightyHypnotic]

I hope everyone knows I was just making a joke and not poking fun at anyone.

[MightyHypnotic]

You berated Mr. X for starting a thread on piracy and stated that calling attention to it was a big part of the problem.
So he removes it annnnnd... you started your own.

I don't consider the Misc sub-forum to be the "basement" as you put it but the topic of piracy isn't what the Superheroine Lounge forum is there for. It's there to discuss superheroine related ideas and yes, to announce and discuss superheroine releases. The only time I lock a thread is when the conversation breaks down and the same points are being made over and over, spanning multiple pages, with the topic constantly bumping to the top of the forum.
At some point it needs moderation.

Maybe you should just tell us what your real problem is, because piracy isn't it. It sounds like you have a problem with producers in general. I for one would be happy to discuss it with you. We're not big companies. Most producers I know love feedback.


AS for my joke, I meant the whole subject of piracy gives me cancer. Well, not me, Spiderman. He hates piracy too. But it wasn't a personal attack on you. As for me, I personally don't want to discuss the issue of piracy on a forum.

[viking]

I have been a member of the SHIB forum and this forum for many years. The only times I can recall Mr. X saying "let's keep it positive" or MH closing a topic is when personal attacks and insults were directed at models, producers or forum members. Constructive criticism and varying points of view seems welcome at both of these forums.

[getoffthshed12000]

Well, that's the key, isn't it? What constitutes feedback? Leaving a comment saying "Your videos suck, LOL" isn't feedback. Constructive, polite, thoughtful comments should always be appreciated. When it isn't (there are some producers who are really sensitive), others will recognize that you tried to be courteous and the other person overreacted.

And, piracy sucks.

[Mr. X]

Well, that's the key, isn't it? What constitutes feedback? Leaving a comment saying "Your videos suck, LOL" isn't feedback. Constructive, polite, thoughtful comments should always be appreciated. When it isn't (there are some producers who are really sensitive), others will recognize that you tried to be courteous and the other person overreacted.

And, piracy sucks.

That's pretty much what I think. There's a difference between constructive criticism and just saying someone sucks or is ugly or old. I made that mistake on the chloroforum over ridiculing tattoos and I regret that. It unnecessarily alienates people and is sadistic. Also my mistake was engaging in prolonged unrelated debates so I did not want this to happen on someone else's forums so I asked the admin to pull my thread.

I am very grateful for the people who voluntarily pay for my material. My thanks. Voluntarism is always the better path.

[MightyHypnotic]

Im just going to address some of Bultavia's comments for now....

We let the CC thread roll for 2 reasons.

#1) No one complained to us about it. If no one complains, we monitor the conversation and let people have their say and let them defend their positions.

#2) A video release like this has never been attempted in our genre before. So it was important to let the conversation take its course.

As far as I could tell, both sides were giving as much as getting, so yes, it became an argument but had we stopped it in the middle it would've been wrong to not let you all have your say. This is a forum, not guestbook.

No one was trying shut you down. The thread wasn't locked because you had an unpopular opinion or because producers only want compliments, roses, butterflies and rainbows.

We locked the thread when the conversation started spiraling off topic. And that's the simple truth.

Even now, we're off topic

And now, if you'll forgive me, I have to go. I have to drop Spiderman off for another round of chemo.

[DevilMan38]

What I don't understand are the people who actually post content. I can understand a trade with someone; producers may not like it, but that's impossible to control. But just putting content up for freeloaders to steal? I've probably spent thousands of dollars over the years collecting various fetish videos, there's no way I'm going to just give it away!

That's what puzzles me as well. Why do they this? Is there some kind of income for them, do the sites that host that stuff pay them for uploading, or do they get some kind of renumeration from advertisers (the kind of thing that Youtube does with its affliate advertising feature)?
If there's no money in it for them, are they doing it for some anarchic reason? Do they think they're 'sticking it to the man?'
Or, could it be that they're disgruntled or disappointed customers who feel let down by what they've bought & decide to upload it as some kind of protest? Because the point is that somewhere along the line one or more of these uploaders must have paid for the stuff they're putting out there.

The answer (if there is one) is probably 'all of the above', and I can't see an end to this issue no matter what steps producers take to protect their content. A better understanding of why this goes on though, might at least reduce it a little.

[viking]

They consider themselves the "Robin Hoods" of the internet. It makes them feel important.

[Visitor]

You can see the same thing for computer games. Ubisoft for Assassin's Creed 2 required you to open an account with the company and be online connected with their server to play the game. 6 weeks after the game's release pirated versions existed that bypassed registration and the need to be online.

It's worse for the computer gaming industry because people are spending time writing code to defeat the protections for no payment. They are willing to lose money to cost companies money.

[JasonRain]

It seems like this topic gets brought up every few months.

[staggerlee]

Is it just me, or is almost every single thread bultavia is involved in turning into a shit-show? Come ON, dude. Find something better to do with your time than whine and argue on the internet.

It's great to have an opinion and discuss it! That's what forums are for: discussion! However, there are ways to state your opinion that are far less obnoxious and come off a lot less crybaby. Seriously.