(Custom) BUYERS BEWARE!!

[tamonicus]

korda:

I have ordered a few customs over the years and never had any serious problems, just delays on the part of producers. Exposing your customers is the same as committing business suicide. Kithos is right about saying she's retired. She's just put herself out of business with this shit. My advice to EvilBilly is to hurt that person in her pockets. The first thing I would do is contact the C4S and try to shut down her store, but I have my doubts if they would be willing to accept your request. If I were them, I would not want to work with someone who expose their customers. Ultimately, boycotting and continue denouncing her in other fetish forums and lists can do almost the same effect in punishing her.

I don't think I'd sell this or other forums short. Ages ago I took a marketing class in which I learned the average customer with a good experience tells 5 people while one with a bad experience tells 19 people. We've easily surpassed 19 in this forum. I believe as producers learn the pitfalls of a bad reputation, the others will do the right thing for their own survival at the very least. I do feel badly for EvilBilly, who had to learn the hard way which producer is dishonest.

BTW, korda, who did you order your customs from?

[GMan2]

Damn...sorry to hear about that EB. Hope she does the right thing and makes things right with you. (Even at some point in time).

She was banned from here for something, wasn't she?

[misspandora]

Hey..I'm a fetish model who shoots superheroine for other producers. I've worked with Dawnstar and Lone Star Damsels (in fact I'm shooting as Catwoman with them this weekend.) I'm new to the forum and to be honest, I specifically joined to comment on this thread.

I have never met this Kithos chick, but when I moved to the east coast from L.A. 2 years ago, MANY people warned me about her. Apparently, she has a habit of working with a model, then unexpectedly and unjustifiably slandering the model, usually on Twitter. I made a mental note to never work with her, but in the past 2 years, I've heard first person testimony from model friends of mine about the horrible things she does.

So I can't say it surprises me to hear she's burning her customers. I do have to say, I am friends with many fetish models who also produce customs, and I produce customs myself (not superheroine, tho..mostly bondage, tickling, spanking, etc.) And the people I know are all very ethical and respectable. They would never treat a customer the way Kithos has treated Billy. I saw her post on FB outing him and was appalled. I hope she's serious about her retirement (and yes, Ashley is right..she's threatened to retire many times now). If she doesn't retire, I hope word of mouth gets around enough to put an end to her shady business for good.

People like her give the ethical ones of us in this business a bad name!

[AshleyGraham]

So billy did they really refund like they claim on twitter?

[EvilBilly]

Nope. I checked my PayPal and didn't see anything. I was hoping they did the right thing, but...

[AshleyGraham]

Nope. I checked my PayPal and didn't see anything. I was hoping they did the right thing, but...

Well they're claiming they did on twitter http://twitter.com/KithosFetish and http://twitter.com/TedMichaelsDams

And I called them out on the lies. It was highly entertaining http://twitter.com/TheAshGraham

[EvilBilly]

Yes, I've seen the post on AK's Public FB page before she took it down. Also saw the discussion on Pandora's page. Surprising (maybe not) how many people AK and TM have wronged.

And as of now still no refund.

[AshleyGraham]

Yes, I've seen the post on AK's Public FB page before she took it down. Also saw the discussion on Pandora's page. Surprising (maybe not) how many people AK and TM have wronged.

And as of now still no refund.

What discussion on pandoras?

[Richpartist]

If we knew their address we could mail them a big hunk of coal............or a big steaming chunk of crap

[staggerlee]

Nope. I checked my PayPal and didn't see anything. I was hoping they did the right thing, but...

Well they're claiming they did on twitter http://twitter.com/KithosFetish and http://twitter.com/TedMichaelsDams

And I called them out on the lies. It was highly entertaining http://twitter.com/TheAshGraham

Good on you for calling them out! As a fellow model/producer, I'm sure it would be easier to just ignore it and not get involved but I think it shows strong character that you're standing up for what's right. A classy lady you are! Angelique seriously seems like a fucking sociopath, and now apparently, a thief to boot.

[EvilBilly]

What discussion on pandoras?

This one:

I should have clarified; on Facebook.

[Camvoy]

"This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page."

That's what I got with the link.

For what it's worth, Angelique ( @KithosFetish) posted an image on her Twitter an apparent PayPal transaction (currently on hold) of $300, minus a $9 PayPal transaction fee.

[EvilBilly]

"This content is currently unavailable
The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page."

That's what I got with the link.

For what it's worth, Angelique ( @KithosFetish) posted an image on her Twitter an apparent PayPal transaction (currently on hold) of $300, minus a $9 PayPal transaction fee.

Thanks for the heads-up. Hopefully this is true; I think PayPal takes a few business days for transactions to clear.

[EvilBilly]

For what it's worth, Angelique ( @KithosFetish) posted an image on her Twitter an apparent PayPal transaction (currently on hold) of $300, minus a $9 PayPal transaction fee.

I noticed the date on the screenshot; I called PayPal and asked if this was a valid transaction and they confirmed that it was not. So I'm back to where I was the other day.

[Camvoy]

Oh.

Well damn. I was hoping that would be the end of it and at least the closest we can get to some sort of resolution.

[EvilBilly]

Oh.

Well damn. I was hoping that would be the end of it and at least the closest we can get to some sort of resolution.

Based on the opinions of the folks on Facebook this doesn't surprise me.

[swampy170]

May or may not be at an end - considering paypal always take a week to do pretty much anything though (if not longer!), if that is a refund should be with you next week. Purely going by paypal processing speeds. Suuucks even when using it with ebay, let alone anything else :/

Paypal are just not good at sorting matters, they'll get it sorted alright - it'll just take weeks. Credit cards on the other hand, could be sorted in a day if that. Is down to the way the two different mediums work though, admittedly.

[Camvoy]

I'm not really privy to the Facebook posts anymore since I was apparently put on block by Pandora. I guess I didn't get the memo about us now being mortal enemies, or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

[AshleyGraham]

Oh.

Well damn. I was hoping that would be the end of it and at least the closest we can get to some sort of resolution.

Based on the opinions of the folks on Facebook this doesn't surprise me.

Nope. Me neither. And apparently she's out of retirement. Shocking!

[Camvoy]

Silent Mode initiated.

[avenger]

I would take screen shots of all the claims of them refunding any money, and screenshots or copies of any emails from them claiming to have filmed the movie, or not filmed the movie....from an earlier thread it sounded as if her husband contradicted himself in one of his emails by saying it was filmed or something, then later saying it hasn't been filmed. Get copies of all screenshots and email communications and have them formally charged with fraud. IT CAN BE DONE. Like I said before, paypal is a mediator at best; they will try to resolve the issue by communicating with both parties and at the very worst, will suspend their paypal privelages. It's still a he-said she-said and I knew they were going to tell paypal they sent you a refund, didn't I? This has gone on long enough and the sooner you make a formal complaint with local law enforcement, the better. Get copies of any communications (including this forum, if helpful) and provide everything to the investigator handling the case (if you choose to do that). This is fraud, clear and simple and you should pursue it as such, regardless of how much inconvenience you think it is, or how embarrassing it may be. I think Kithos and her husband are counting on you being a little embarrassed and not pursuing it from a law enforcement angle.

[getoffthshed12000]

I would take screen shots of all the claims of them refunding any money, and screenshots or copies of any emails from them claiming to have filmed the movie, or not filmed the movie....from an earlier thread it sounded as if her husband contradicted himself in one of his emails by saying it was filmed or something, then later saying it hasn't been filmed. Get copies of all screenshots and email communications and have them formally charged with fraud. IT CAN BE DONE. Like I said before, paypal is a mediator at best; they will try to resolve the issue by communicating with both parties and at the very worst, will suspend their paypal privelages. It's still a he-said she-said and I knew they were going to tell paypal they sent you a refund, didn't I? This has gone on long enough and the sooner you make a formal complaint with local law enforcement, the better. Get copies of any communications (including this forum, if helpful) and provide everything to the investigator handling the case (if you choose to do that). This is fraud, clear and simple and you should pursue it as such, regardless of how much inconvenience you think it is, or how embarrassing it may be. I think Kithos and her husband are counting on you being a little embarrassed and not pursuing it from a law enforcement angle.

You've given them plenty of time to make things right, and all they've done is violate your privacy and complain on various social media. You and Ashley Graham have exposed them, and you've tried to go through the proper channels to get your money back, and all Kithos has done is make false claims that she did issue a refund. She doesn't seem to be budging, so why should you? Pull out the big guns! It's your money, man. They don't deserve to keep it.

[drh1966]

I think something needs to be said here that hasn't been. It isn't going to be worth the cost involved to recoup $300. His legal fees and time spent are going to be worth more than what he will get back. I know what it's like to get gypped out of a few hundred dollars but the cost benefit here just isn't worth it. And that's even if he gets his legal fees paid for. Keep up the pressure and the public education about them and maybe that'll hurt their bottom line and reputation enough. I'm not a fan of Kithos either but the reality is there isn't much he can do.

[avenger]

drh1966, my comments suggest going to local law enforcement; it IS an option and I know from experience it works. Depending on the jurisdiction, this can fall under the 'white collar' crimes unit or a more specialized 'internet crimes' or 'ecrimes' unit and I know the last dept. I worked for had them. This is a clear-cut case of FRAUD and it IS punishable. Just because someone takes your money over the internet and can hide behind a screen name or company name doesn't make them any more protected, so to speak. Fraud is fraud, whether it's done through regular mail or through the internet, and the best part is---it's FREE. Going to the police and making a complaint and requesting an investigation is all part of using your local resources and I know a lot of white collar detectives that have investigated and prosecuted internet fraud cases. The only thing evilbilly has to spend is his time, if he chooses to do this. The value of the product determines whether it's a misdemeanor or felony, and in this case, I'm guessing he spent a few hundred dollars which makes it a FELONY. This is totally worth his time and effort in the long run. He doesn't need a lawyer; just a good, hard-working and motivated detective, and I know plenty of them

[drh1966]

Avenger, as you appear to have some experience in this, I'll defer to you. However, he might also be told by the police after hearing the story, "its only $300, consider it a lesson learned." They may suggest that due to the work involved for such a small amount, the local police would have to reach out beyond state lines, the resources involved; bottom line, they may consider it not worth the effort. I suggest this only because I have witnessed this by police when it comes to certain matters and by lawyers for the same reasons. I guess it'll depend on what EvilBilly wants to do; pursue it and divulge his little fantasy to law enforcement which could be embarrassing and possibly a dead end, or take the loss and spread the word.

But I'm like you, go after her and get your money back. I'm just not sure it's worth it in the end.

[avenger]

I will say this much on the matter: a true story of a case I worked on from years ago....the case has been closed and the person received their item so I will give you an example of what could happen:

a person paid for an item on Ebay many years ago; it was an autographed photo of a famous (now dead) college football coach. This person paid close to $100 for it; he used Paypal and received confirmation. The person selling the item received the payment but did not send out the item, after numerous emails and requests. The buyer made a formal complaint to Paypal, but all paypal did was mediate and made a few efforts to contact the seller. The seller stopped communication with the buyer. Obviously, this concerned the buyer and made several more attempts to contact seller, with no success. The buyer found out where the seller lived (somewhere in MD) via public tax records and called local police. The local police actually drove to seller's home and made contact with seller. Police politely encouraged seller to double check his inventory to make sure item was actually sent.....seller told police item was sent.
A few days go by and buyer makes more attempts to contact seller; seller does not respond. Seller contacts police again, this time, buyer was encouraged to make a formal complaint; a complaint was made and a formal investigation was launched. Police went to seller's house again, was told a different story by another person in the house. The he-said she-said went back and forth until buyer was able to provide police with all emails sent and Ebay was eventually involved. Seller of item was notified a fraud investigation was opened and a search warrant was prepared (turns out this person was involved in selling sports memorabilia online and tried to stiff a few other people)
Buyer was issued a full refund through his bank after an affidavit was completed; seller and his roommates made false statements to law enforcement about item being sent; warrant was executed due to the nature of seller's shady reputation within the sports memorabilia circles; item was found in garage of seller's house in spite of his and his roommates telling police otherwise. Seller was charged with various crimes, including internet fraud and making false statements to police; roommates were charged with making false statements; items were collected by police and some were found to be stolen.....sure, it sounds like a lot of time and effort went into this, considering it was just an 11 x 14 autographed (a poorly forged one) of a famous college football coach, but police had more than a bad vibe about this guy and sometimes that's all it takes. This police dept. sent a few different police officers out to the residence and their presence was enough to get the seller's attention....had the seller just told the truth, he wouldn't have been charged with a variety of things. Instead, he stuck to his story about mailing the item but couldn't provide police with any proof of receipt from post office (the postal inspector would have been next to get involved) and paypal shutting this guy down. In the end, buyer got his money back, Ebay banned the seller, paypal dropped the seller, and the police recovered a variety of stolen items.....like I said before, it's like peeling an onion. There are many layers and once the first layer is peeled away, who knows what is then revealed. In this particular case, the buyer was mad enough to go to the police in spite of it being 'just an Ebay item' but a good police dept. will take the time to listen to the case and start a proper investigation. Whenever money is involved, police tend to get involved as well because other things usually come to light.....like I said, it's worth a shot and if evilbilly can put aside a little embarrassment explaining to the police that he paid for a custom 'fantasy movie', the onion can finally get ready to be peeled. Trust me, these are more common than most people realize, and tend to be pretty easy to resolve, so what detective wouldn't want to have this success in their files!?

[getoffthshed12000]

It may sound a little naive, but police are supposed to protect and serve the citizenry of their jurisdiction. Part of the reason we pay local taxes is to fund a police department so we can make use of them in these types of situations. It may work, it may not. Once EB decides whether or not he wants his fetish to see the light of day, if he wants his money back, it's at least worth a try.

[Dogfish]

First time poster, long time lurker. Been reading this thread with interest, and it's made me realise just how cautious people have to be these days. Because of all the secrecy and furtiveness that surrounds porn and fetishes and so on the customer is in a very vulnerable position. One of the things that has always put me off getting an expensive custom clip is this sort of situation. I mean it's bad enough if you just lose your money, but worse can happen as we've seen. Puts me right off the whole procedure.

[EvilBilly]

First time poster, long time lurker. Been reading this thread with interest, and it's made me realise just how cautious people have to be these days. Because of all the secrecy and furtiveness that surrounds porn and fetishes and so on the customer is in a very vulnerable position. One of the things that has always put me off getting an expensive custom clip is this sort of situation. I mean it's bad enough if you just lose your money, but worse can happen as we've seen. Puts me right off the whole procedure.

In all fairness I've been getting custom clips for years from producers like Shakeshift, EVW and a couple others with no problems like described above. This is the first time this has happened to me.

[TIEnTEEZ]

First time poster, long time lurker. Been reading this thread with interest, and it's made me realise just how cautious people have to be these days. Because of all the secrecy and furtiveness that surrounds porn and fetishes and so on the customer is in a very vulnerable position. One of the things that has always put me off getting an expensive custom clip is this sort of situation. I mean it's bad enough if you just lose your money, but worse can happen as we've seen. Puts me right off the whole procedure.

Don't be too discouraged. Just do some research and get some feedback from others who have been there so you know which performers and studios are trustworthy.

There are quite a few that I would have no problem vouching for. From my own personal experience, I would not hesitate to recommend:

Primal
Randy Moore
Kendra James

That's just for super heroine content. If you are interested in other genre's, like femdom, I could give you some more names.

While these kinds of problems are not uncommon, they are not the norm, either. Most studios understand and respect the need for privacy. Any studio that wants to stay in business will think long and hard before they do anything that might violate a customer's privacy, because if they out you, they are also revealing themselves as untrustworthy and they will absolutely lose a lot of business. And if you think about it, they probably have a lot more to lose than you do.

Also... if you are concerned about being 'outed', then it's pretty easy to stay anonymous over the internet. You could create a free e-mail account on any one of a dozen sites.

Paying for your purchase anonymously is a little trickier. I'm pretty sure PayPal uses your name. Anyone got any advice on how to do this?

[MoreThanJustaCape]

There are quite a few that I would have no problem vouching for. From my own personal experience, I would not hesitate to recommend:

Primal
Randy Moore
Kendra James

That's just for super heroine content. If you are interested in other genre's, like femdom, I could give you some more names.

I can add to that list.
Diana Knight
Sleeperkids world
Evangeline von winter
Jacquelyn Velvets
Kendra james

Have purchased dozens of customs and these have never disappointed. all of them have given me exactly what i wanted and then added more!
Sleeperkid and Evangeline both gave me longer movies than paid for.

Kendra james was a bit more expensive than the other three but worth the price.

These 4 are also very vocal with communications and with replies and customer service.

I can supply like to all of them if you guys want them or don't know who they are.

[getoffthshed12000]

I would second the Jacquelyn Velvets recommendation, and add Cali Logan. Both did great jobs on the customs I ordered.

[avenger]

yes, the police are to 'protect and serve' the citizenry but police depts. have also evolved quite a bit over the years....most police depts. have specialized units, ie, domestic violence, CSI, CIS, animal control, mounted, k-9, aviation, drug task forces, etc. and almost all of them have an investigations unit. If you look past the police as just a 'beat cop' (properly known as patrol units) you'll see that their role have expanded to keep up with the times, and with the internet being so common and in almost every house, you have to expect that the police are going to evolve to keep. I'm not going to say anything more on this because it's ultimately up to evilbilly to resolve it. I think I gave more than enough information to guide him, and no matter what he chooses, he has to live with it. I just hate to read and hear about people like kithos trying to rip off people. I can tell you with 100% certainty that if kithos did this to me she and her husband would be booked and processed within 48 hours of me being hosed and every charge that could stick would be applied. I don't like losing money, man. Good luck to evilbilly....

[Dogfish]

Finding some sort of anonymous way to pay would be a big help I think. It takes away the fear of the person you're buying from having your real name and other details on file. I'm a reasonably trusting person, probably too trusting in some ways (have been burned before on that front), but even I wouldn't want to have my real name attached to anything like that. I mean going through a bank and billing company is one thing, (and maybe that's just as bad), but I prefer to keep that level of distance.

I guess what I'm saying is that I like to keep what any given link in the chain knows to a minimum, so bank knows everything about who I am and where I live, billing/paypal know who I am and who I've paid money to, producer knows all the kind of kinky shenanigans that I want to see in a movie. For me, I just feel more comfortable if the producer doesn't know who I am, in the same way as I feel more comfortable if my bank didn't know I like to watch videos about superheroines getting into trouble.

Part of me thinks I'm being paranoid, but in this day and age, well, you kind of have to be.

[tuxjar]

She's been saying that every few years for years and years. Just ask around.

It's true. I believe the one I got from her was just before her 2012 retirement.

Also, I can recommend Ashley Graham. She's done a couple for me, and they were excellent, fairly priced, and done relatively quickly.

Tracy Jordan (aka Bat-Tracy) and Candle Boxxx are two others who done customs for me with zero hassles and excellent results.

[Rifferus]

She's been saying that every few years for years and years. Just ask around.

It's true. I believe the one I got from her was just before her 2012 retirement.

Also, I can recommend Ashley Graham. She's done a couple for me, and they were excellent, fairly priced, and done relatively quickly.

Tracy Jordan (aka Bat-Tracy) and Candle Boxxx are two others who done customs for me with zero hassles and excellent results.

All awesome ladies

Samantha Grace I can recommend as well, tho I'm obviously a touch biased.

[Dragon1]

if you ever want a custom done right go to primal. I was blown away by how they got it and the product was amazing.

[knottyguy]

I think something needs to be said here that hasn't been. It isn't going to be worth the cost involved to recoup $300. His legal fees and time spent are going to be worth more than what he will get back. I know what it's like to get gypped out of a few hundred dollars but the cost benefit here just isn't worth it. And that's even if he gets his legal fees paid for. Keep up the pressure and the public education about them and maybe that'll hurt their bottom line and reputation enough. I'm not a fan of Kithos either but the reality is there isn't much he can do.

Well now something needs to be said. You can add your legal fees, court costs, lost wages and any other expenses incurred by the legal process of a civil case to your claim. It shouldn't cost the victim a dime if done right, assuming they win of course.

At the very least you can file a claim with the FTC on line for free about internet fraud. They may or may not take action but the threat of a federal Bauru looking into your business practices is enough to get a positive response from most and at the very least if you have to file and they don't pursue your case there will be a record of it on file and if additional people report the same business it will be investigated.

[TIEnTEEZ]

if you ever want a custom done right go to primal. I was blown away by how they got it and the product was amazing.

Which one was yours?

[TIEnTEEZ]

Does anyone know if Melissa Jacobs does custom videos herself? Or what studios can get her for customs?

She's like my all time favorite, and so far, it's been an uphill battle trying to find a good studio who can get her.

So far, the only one I've found who claimed he could get her was MH. But it didn't pan out.

I asked Primal if they could get her, both via e-mail and here on the forums in another thread but I haven't gotten any response.

[Dragon1]

Mine will be out soon but I got the preview pics and I am happpppy.

[jrock920]

woah dude they screwed you over and i would never order a custom way to much money

[olhif]

Does anyone know if Melissa Jacobs does custom videos herself? Or what studios can get her for customs?

I dont recommend order custom directly with models that dont produce your own videos. I had a bad experience in this way.

[Dragon1]

This was the custom I had made. http://www.clips4sale.com/53607/10071677

[powerman]

Does anyone know if Melissa Jacobs does custom videos herself? Or what studios can get her for customs?

Try MH. I had one done with her from him.

[MightyHypnotic]

I have some free time after the 26th, if you want to send me your script, I can look at it then. I'm setting up a shoot with Melissa in Jan.

[TIEnTEEZ]

I have some free time after the 26th, if you want to send me your script, I can look at it then. I'm setting up a shoot with Melissa in Jan.

Thanks, MH. But you already declined my script.

[drh1966]

Kithos has updated her C4S store. Girl has no shame. Everyone needs to do their part here and boycott this scammer. She's done this to others, she'll do it again.

[EvilBilly]

Kithos has updated her C4S store. Girl has no shame. Everyone needs to do their part here and boycott this scammer. She's done this to others, she'll do it again.

Yup, I saw that; so much for her 'retirement'. Several models and producers had reached out to me as well, this is her M.O. although she usually waits a little longer. Thing is, I believe that she has a lot of fans who will continue to support her despite her general scumminess.

[TIEnTEEZ]

Kithos has updated her C4S store. Girl has no shame. Everyone needs to do their part here and boycott this scammer. She's done this to others, she'll do it again.

Yup, I saw that; so much for her 'retirement'. Several models and producers had reached out to me as well, this is her M.O. although she usually waits a little longer. Thing is, I believe that she has a lot of fans who will continue to support her despite her general scumminess.

No one who reads this thread would ever think of doing business with her again. I certainly wouldn't.