(Custom) BUYERS BEWARE!!

[RedMountain]

I've only purchased a handful of her clips, and found the majority to be pretty lack luster. She overestimates her acting skills, especially with the more erotic peril and you can tell she's faking the majority of it. She has some interesting costumes and I was excited that she had a Huntress character, but even that was pretty "meh." However after reading this thread I will pass on ever purchasing any of her content from here on out. Just wrong what she continually does to people while having an amazingly thin skin about it. I still remember when she went nuts on this forum and was banned.

[rayman]

I used to be a fan but after seeing and hearing how Kithos behaves I am no longer.

AND from what I remember of old videos I bought there is no new content just old stuff brought up to the top of the C4S page.

[EvilBilly]

I used to be a fan but after seeing and hearing how Kithos behaves I am no longer.

AND from what I remember of old videos I bought there is no new content just old stuff brought up to the top of the C4S page.

Thanks for the input, Rayman... Based on her Twitter feed it looks like Kithos is marketing the 'new' vids as new material.

[EvilBilly]

So now she's saying that the custom was filmed... https://twitter.com/KithosFetish

By the way, confirmation that she's 'unretired'.

[TIEnTEEZ]

Take it from someone who's been there. Just forget it and move on with your life. It's not worth the aggravation.

[EvilBilly]

Take it from someone who's been there. Just forget it and move on with your life. It's not worth the aggravation.

Yeah, I hear you. But if I can get a couple of folks who would have bought a custom from Kithos to change their minds that would be worth it.

[getoffthshed12000]

So now the custom has been filmed, but she's holding it hostage until YOU apologize? So instead of just stealing your money, she's extorting you, too. Sheesh.

[drh1966]

Just wrong what she continually does to people while having an amazingly thin skin about it. I still remember when she went nuts on this forum and was banned.

I remember that! It was during the infamous Porn vs Peril thread. Both her and EVW, another nutter who seems to think she's God's gift to fetish, lost their minds and went on an all out assault on those who dared challenge them. Crazy stuff. Kithos ended up creating her own forum of which EVW is a prominent member. A couple of their defenders are members there, one is a mod. It's basically a graveyard now. Once in a while I'll take a peek at their Twitter accounts just to see what is being said, and they never fail to entertain.

[PoisonIvy]

Well I can honestly say that you have stopped me from EVER getting a custom from Kithos, EVER!! So if nothing else thank you!!! Its funny because I hadn't noticed this thread until today, and I was actually looking at her vids on clips4sale when I noticed this. I usually get a couple customs a year when I can afford it, and while I have had some minor difficulties, I am lucky to have not encountered anything like what you experienced!!!

I was getting ready to shop around for my newest custom, and this eliminates her without a doubt in my book. So if nothing else comes from this, "THANK YOU BILLY!!!"

[RedMountain]

Saw the little feed on twitter where she wants you to apologize before giving you your video. Unreal. She is a customer's worst nightmare and obviously has some issues. I hope a lot of people see this thread and stop supporting her business.

[getoffthshed12000]

Just wrong what she continually does to people while having an amazingly thin skin about it. I still remember when she went nuts on this forum and was banned.

I remember that! It was during the infamous Porn vs Peril thread. Both her and EVW, another nutter who seems to think she's God's gift to fetish, lost their minds and went on an all out assault on those who dared challenge them. Crazy stuff. Kithos ended up creating her own forum of which EVW is a prominent member. A couple of their defenders are members there, one is a mod. It's basically a graveyard now. Once in a while I'll take a peek at their Twitter accounts just to see what is being said, and they never fail to entertain.

EVW is still doing the same thing on other forums. Both her and her husband are way too thin-skinned to take any sort of criticism, and act as though they've been personally attacked. Then they pout and threaten to stop producing and act like we owe them something. It's turned me off from ever buying anything from them.

[avenger]

what, or who, is EVW?

[Shakeshift]

Evangeline Von Winter.

[Gus Goreman, Jr.]

EVW, another nutter who seems to think she's God's gift to fetish

hahaha ... very well put

They were the worst! EVW and Kithos would comment and plug their videos in every posting even if it had nothing, nothing at all to do with them.

[MoreThanJustaCape]

EVW, another nutter who seems to think she's God's gift to fetish

hahaha ... very well put

They were the worst! EVW and Kithos would comment and plug their videos in every posting even if it had nothing, nothing at all to do with them.

I can see that revisionist interpretations of forum history are alive an well.
Bash the producer who isn't here to correct misconceptions and outright lies because you don't like her.
I have had multiple dealings with EVW and her husband and its true that when she was handling the forums and businesses I had a hard time pinning her down but after her husband took over the email interactions and customer support I had nothing but blue sky with them. I have ordered multiple customs and even go as far as posting for them here when they release a movie I liked and bought.

I also know that some of the people taking shots at her here have had personal problems with her in the past on another forum and they were banned by the owner (not her at the time) and they took offense to her being here and attacked her here.
the rants some of you so vividly expressed were her defending herself against personal attacks against people who had previous PERSONAL issues with her and decided to give her a hard time.

When she lashed out at this forum for deleting her it was because she felt she was poorly treated by the owners who condemned her for standing up for herself but refused to allow the same protection to her when she was attacked.

in her defense she was 100% right. just because you are a producer doesn't mean that you are not allowed to defend yourself when attacked and are not allowed the same protection being offered to members.

I think its a travesty that some of you Ill wishers are lumping her in with someone who doesn't deliver on a custom and is making threats on the person who ordered the custom and is outing the customers personal information on the internet.

You could go back and read her replies defending herself but they were deleted when she was banned for standing up for herself.
oddly enough my replies to her defending her were deleted as well. the posts attacking her remain.

unfortunately thats a side that will not be offered because it challenges their personal feelings about her.

I'm sorry but I cannot stand quietly while people with personal problems put her into the same category as someone who is stealing from people.

And now that i have stood up for her I expect to be attacked as well because isn't that how the internet works? go against the opinions of the loudest members and get picked apart?

I feel my opinion is just as valid and just as warranted as those vocal bashers and I hope that others with positive experiences with her will stand up as well.

[MoreThanJustaCape]

Also a quick question to ponder.
Why is it she is still posting frequently at other forums like heroine movies, and SHIB and is never given a hard time, never bashed, never attacked?
quite the opposite. moderators there have actually outed producers using fake accounts to bash her and when it was discovered they made an announcement and stopped them…but here…its just a tirade of hate and attack…but why only here?

[EvilBilly]

I do have to say, I've ordered about a half-dozen customs from Eve and Willie and they always delivered. When my issues with Kithos started they offered to film my custom idea for free. So I am personally a big fan of theirs.

[MoreThanJustaCape]

I can see that revisionist interpretations of forum history are alive an well. Bash the producer who isn't here to correct misconceptions and outright lies because you don't like her.

No revisionism necessary. The people who were there remember.

I was there and I remember perfectly. I was also a member of the other forums where the first round of attacks began. those very same people then came here and started attacking her over comments she said. the attacks were not so much over what she said but a personal vendetta against her. it was obvious since the names were the same on both forums. When she opened her own forum shortly after leaving here those same people joined there and started with her over there…went out of their way to join her forum to continue the attacks started here….you think she was guilty in that? I think if you're going to comment about history you should either include all of it, or know all of it.

I have had multiple dealings with EVW and her husband and its true that when she was handling the forums and businesses I had a hard time pinning her down but after her husband took over the email interactions and customer support I had nothing but blue sky with them. I have ordered multiple customs and even go as far as posting for them here when they release a movie I liked and bought.

Nobody has questioned their integrity as far as delivering on customs, only on her abrasive personality and thin skin.

Except that what you are calling a thin skin and abrasive personality comes from an instance when she was defending herself against people who were unjustly attacking her soley because they didn't like who she was, not what she was saying

When she lashed out at this forum for deleting her it was because she felt she was poorly treated by the owners who condemned her for standing up for herself but refused to allow the same protection to her when she was attacked.

Not entirely true. It's too bad certain portions of that thread are gone because its just as easy for you to play revisionist as you claim others are. The ones who were there know what happened and so does the admin. Yes it got personal, from both sides, but only after she lost her mind and started ranting at forum members who disagreed with her one sided view of things. Being a producer doesn't make you an expert on everything fetish which she seemed to think it did. People took offense, what do you expect?

Again you are revising history. You are either ignoring that the attacks were coming from a personal level after having them on another forum and not having anything to do with what was actually happening. was she enraged? yes. was she furious, absolutely. I would also agree that she handled it incredibly poorly and she was treated terribly by those who either didn't know what was going on or chose to turn a blind eye.
Also you are forgetting that along with her posts that were deleted so were mine. all in defense of her and pointed against those attacking her. but those were deleted and then somehow mysteriously a week later i couldn't log back in.
How should I take my own first hand knowledge?

I think its a travesty that some of you Ill wishers are lumping her in with someone who doesn't deliver on a custom and is making threats on the person who ordered the custom and is outing the customers personal information on the internet.

Again, not true. It's not her customs business that was mentioned, it was her personality. I think everyone would agree that it was pretty stand up for her to offer to help out EvilBilly.

Thats the first time anyone other than billy himself is saying anything positive about the matter.
she was brought into a thread that had nothing to do with her in a nice way and everyone then proceeded to jump up and down on her either because they didn't like her before she came here, or because they have a mixed idea of who she is.
Anyone who starts off a comment by saying "this isn't the first time she has done this on a board" and wasn't actually there to see her acting that way in person is just being a parrot to what has been said. anyone saying that and was actually there is part of the group targeting her in the first place so that opinion is biased and marred.

As for me.
I will continue to update this forum whenever she releases something new…even if the mods delete it shortly after i do.
at least that is until i mysteriously have problems logging into this account….so let that countdown begin

[Mr. X]

As one of the moderators on SHIB the two parties in question, Eve and Kithos, have posted adverts for their products just fine with no squabbling or attacks. In fact SHIB rarely has any fighting of any kind.

I do want to add that producers making negative comments about producer's works is unprofessional to me and a conflict of interest. I think positive comments are fine. Also posting negative comments through aliases is pretty underhanded. I notice some of the old trouble makers only show up when certain people get into a conflict.

[staggerlee]

Yeah, this EVW bashing is garbage and should stop. I remember her posting a lot of really aggressive shit, but that was a long time ago. They've apologized, haven't done it since, and seem to be very very nice people. Cool off.

[RedMountain]

I think for what it is worth, EVW has really changed quite a bit since that spat on here. Everything I've seen from her postings on Heroine Movies has been pretty positive and seeking out ideas and criticisms from the fans to improve their videos. It's like they hired a PR company or something, but she seems to have gotten past the days from earlier.

Can't say the same for Kithos sadly, especially given her recent retirement and now the "oh wait nevermind I'm back" BS that she is pulling for the umpteenth time.

[getoffthshed12000]

For my part, I wasn't comparing EVW to Kithos or trying to imply that she ripped people off also. I don't think anyone was trying to say that. It was a classy move for her to offer to give a free custom to people who have been screwed.

The only point I was trying to make is even though she may have improved from what happened on this forum, she still takes criticism way too personally. She's just got to get a thicker skin, that's all. I think she'd be much more successful that she is if she would take what she can from criticism, ignore the trolls, and not be so abrasive with her customers.

Can we all be friends now?

[Mr. X]

I think all the care bears are pretty and they all should belong.

But not the care bear cousins. They are freaks and should be purged.

[EvilBilly]

I think all the care bears are pretty and they all should belong.

But not the care bear cousins. They are freaks and should be purged.

And the Gummy Bears should be chewed slowly so they are made to suffer for their soft, sweet goodness...

[Richpartist]

Evangeline did a custom video for me and it only cost the price of a outfit,so I'm a big fan myself

[misspandora]

Yes, I blocked you, and you know why, too.

Enough people I trust have warned me that you have a tendency to talk out of both sides of your mouth when it comes to AK.

In any case, nobody can see the comment thread on my wall unless they're on my FB friends list. Suffice it to say, enough models and photographers have chimed in on all the lame, unethical things AK has done in the past.

I'm not really privy to the Facebook posts anymore since I was apparently put on block by Pandora. I guess I didn't get the memo about us now being mortal enemies, or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

[misspandora]

This actually started because a CUSTOMER got burned by Kithos..it didn't start with producers slamming producers, so..not sure what your point is, here.

As one of the moderators on SHIB the two parties in question, Eve and Kithos, have posted adverts for their products just fine with no squabbling or attacks. In fact SHIB rarely has any fighting of any kind.

I do want to add that producers making negative comments about producer's works is unprofessional to me and a conflict of interest. I think positive comments are fine. Also posting negative comments through aliases is pretty underhanded. I notice some of the old trouble makers only show up when certain people get into a conflict.

[misspandora]

It's hilarious that she tells Billy to apologize for all the "libel" he's been spreading, THEN she'll release the custom...

Does she not realize that by saying this, all she's doing is proving Billy's case??

lol

Saw the little feed on twitter where she wants you to apologize before giving you your video. Unreal. She is a customer's worst nightmare and obviously has some issues. I hope a lot of people see this thread and stop supporting her business.

[misspandora]

I shot with them for the first time last fall and had an awesome time. They are very cool people.

Yeah, this EVW bashing is garbage and should stop. I remember her posting a lot of really aggressive shit, but that was a long time ago. They've apologized, haven't done it since, and seem to be very very nice people. Cool off.

[Camvoy Productions]

Negativity. Just say no. You can try and be that way with me if it makes you feel good. Just don't expect me to participate.

My official stance on this is what it's always been. I think Evil should either get his refund or video. I think it was stupid for personal information to be outed. I think all the negativity in general makes us look bad. That's why my initial statement about this whole thing at your Facebook was "I think this whole thing sucks."

As I've said to people before, I cannot help what people say about me. If you want to believe something bad about me then you only do so by choice. If you want me to be your enemy, then you're in for a let down, because we will not be that. I do not care to speak ill of you, Pandora or anyone else in this industry. I think there's enough negativity as it is. Whenever you feel ready to let things be as it concerns myself, it will instantly be water under the bridge. I've no problems with you and you have every right to treat your privacy as you see fit.

Yes, I disagree with the Facebook ban. I don't think we should shutting each other out over disagreements, especially a disagreement that shouldn't involve me in the first place. Again, though Pandora that's your prerogative and I hold no grudges for you making sure you are as comfortable as possible in your online experience. If you ever wish to let all that be, I will be here. Whatever our agreements or disagreements are, so be it. That said, I have nothing against you personally or professionally. And you know how to reach me if you ever want to talk.

I think this whole experience has been very educational. Whatever mistakes I make, I learn from them and keep going. 2014 is looking to be a great year and I hope it is, not just for me, but for all of us. That includes you, Pandora.

And Evil, if you ever want to talk about whatever's on your mind, you know how to reach me as well.

[Richpartist]

By the way,who wants to see this video even more now?

[misspandora]

Don't know you..never met you..

However, people I do know and have no reason not to trust, have told me you go running back to AK and tell her what everyone else is saying about her. I have no reason to disbelieve this info, since it comes from multiple sources.

No interest in letting you see my FB page, if all you're gonna do is run to AK and tell her what everyone is saying about her. Especially since she likes to toss out lawsuit threats at people, wily nily.

That's not a Facebook "ban"--that is simply me execising my prerogative over whom I choose to include on my Friends list.

Negativity. Just say no. You can try and be that way with me if it makes you feel good. Just don't expect me to participate.

My official stance on this is what it's always been. I think Evil should either get his refund or video. I think it was stupid for personal information to be outed. I think all the negativity in general makes us look bad. That's why my initial statement about this whole thing at your Facebook was "I think this whole thing sucks."

As I've said to people before, I cannot help what people say about me. If you want to believe something bad about me then you only do so by choice. If you want me to be your enemy, then you're in for a let down, because we will not be that. I do not care to speak ill of you, Pandora or anyone else in this industry. I think there's enough negativity as it is. Whenever you feel ready to let things be as it concerns myself, it will instantly be water under the bridge. I've no problems with you and you have every right to treat your privacy as you see fit.

Yes, I disagree with the Facebook ban. I don't think we should shutting each other out over disagreements, especially a disagreement that shouldn't involve me in the first place. Again, though Pandora that's your prerogative and I hold no grudges for you making sure you are as comfortable as possible in your online experience. If you ever wish to let all that be, I will be here. Whatever our agreements or disagreements are, so be it. That said, I have nothing against you personally or professionally. And you know how to reach me if you ever want to talk.

I think this whole experience has been very educational. Whatever mistakes I make, I learn from them and keep going. 2014 is looking to be a great year and I hope it is, not just for me, but for all of us. That includes you, Pandora.

And Evil, if you ever want to talk about whatever's on your mind, you know how to reach me as well.

[misspandora]

Pffffttttt

Who believes it even EXISTS?

By the way,who wants to see this video even more now?

[Camvoy Productions]

It's hard for me to talk to someone about anything that I haven't heard from since April, but okay. So now you have a reason not to trust someone, because apparently they've lied to you. I run to no one and I am my own person. If you wish to believe a lie, that's your business. I just think it's unfortunate that someone would betray your trust by lying about me (of all people).

Again though, that's up to you. Not really my thing.

[misspandora]

Nice try, Camvoy. No less than three people I know and trust, confirmed for me that Angelique threatened one of my friends with a lawsuit, and used information about my friend in her threats--information that came directly from YOU.

It's hard for me to talk to someone about anything that I haven't heard from since April, but okay. So now you have a reason not to trust someone, because apparently they've lied to you. I run to no one and I am my own person. If you wish to believe a lie, that's your business. I just think it's unfortunate that someone would betray your trust by lying about me (of all people).

Again though, that's up to you. Not really my thing.

[EvilBilly]

I want to take this moment to thank everyone who has shown their support both here and on Facebook. While my situation with Kithos and Ted isn't exactly Earth-shattering, it's nice to know that folks are willing to take a stance.

[Camvoy Productions]

There was no trying, Pandora. Then again, there was no information sharing. I cannot think of a single instance where I contacted Angelique along the lines of, "Hey, here's something you didn't know was happening, look what so and so's saying about you!"

Now I've given you no logical reason for you to think me a liar and when you actually take the time to think about it, you'll realize I'm telling you the truth. The last time Ted and I spoke, which was one of many general "Hello, hope everything's well" messages I tend to send out from time to time people I've worked with, he had already mentioned being aware of the fact that there there were people not too fond of them and that he wasn't worried about it. As for all that, Ted can speak for himself, because it doesn't (and shouldn't) involve me.

Again, I've made very clear my stance on this issue and I'm pretty sure my stance would not be considered favorable to Angelique or Ted. Ultimately though it's up to them and Evil to decide how all this plays out, not anybody else. That's been my stance from the beginning and it will continue to be my stance. And really, that's all you have to hold against me, which isn't very much. Certainly not enough to justify a Facebook ban.

So hopefully, when all is said and done, you will go back to being a person of your word and no longer hold my views against me, which you assured me you wouldn't, just before the ban indicating that you would.

I will say this on the matter. Yes, I have spoken with people in confidence and in private about various issues. I have shared my concerns and they have shared theirs. We have also shared our experiences and recollections on stuff of a private matter. I will not name names, because I'm a man of my word, but those conversations (unless they have decided to share something with you or someone else) have stayed between us. At no point, unless you have undeniable proof otherwise have I ever betrayed someone's trust like that, including yours.

So keep that in mind, everything you're holding against me is based on a falsehood. As far my participation in this thread, this should be the final word on it.

Evil, to reiterate, I hope you get either your refund or your video.

[Camvoy Productions]

I want to take this moment to thank everyone who has shown their support both here and on Facebook.

You're welcome.

[MCH1968]

Now this has been a fascinating discussion.

I'm an on-again, off-again bondage producer myself and I've had dealings with more than a few of the models/producers mentioned at various points. I used to moderate AK's Yahoo Group but I quit for reasons of my own. I've never had any problems with her.

On the other hand, I think Pandora is just possibly the sexiest model I've ever seen and I'd give my right arm and a few toes for the chance to work with her.

Ashley and I disagreed on Pitbulls one time on Twitter but I think that's long since been erased. I'd like to work with her too.

EVW and I have had a few FetLife conversations and I enjoyed them.

Shakeshift is my favorite Super Heroine in Bondage producer


My only experience with ordering a custom dealt with 2 people who were mentioned earlier in the discussion -- I'll just say it was a complete catastrophe, my friendships with one of them was forever ruined and I wish I'd never messed with it.

I believe that handles all the appropriate disclaimers and I'll state straight off I'm not taking sides but I will say this from way too much personal experience ...

Nobody EVER wins an online flame war. Ever.

[GMan2]

Nobody EVER wins an online flame war. Ever.

BOOOOMMMM!!! PRAISE HEYZEUS BROTHA!!!

[staggerlee]

I'm an on-again, off-again bondage producer myself

Would MCH happen to stand for Metro City Heroines by chance?

[MCH1968]

I'm an on-again, off-again bondage producer myself

Would MCH happen to stand for Metro City Heroines by chance?

No, MCH would be short for "Bondage by MCH"

[EvilBilly]

I'm an on-again, off-again bondage producer myself

Would MCH happen to stand for Metro City Heroines by chance?

No, MCH would be short for "Bondage by MCH"

Has anyone been in touch with The Mayor? He once produced a Savannah Costello custom photoset for me. Totally loved it, but lost it when my old computer crashed.

[Camvoy Productions]

I was one of the last to speak with him before his final bowing out of the industry. Great guy, but he's moved on to things outside of all this. He actually passed on much of the costumes he still had on to me as well as his blessing to use the characters from MetroCity (along with a note that The Mayor created said characters).

Mayor was a joy to work with and also talk shop with. I'm not going to get into detail, but he had his reasons for getting out of the game and I wish him nothing, but happiness. I also consider it an honor he would bless me with the characters. Yes, this means I have the Itrepid and Infuria costumes and plan on using them at some point this year, if not soon.

Savannah's also awesome. The first professional I worked with back in 2009 and was a huge help in getting my production off the ground and running. Looking to shoot with her later this year and definitely looking forward to it.

[EvilBilly]

BTW. Krazy Kithos is still claiming on Twitter to have issued a refund. I'm wondering if in her own alternate reality she thinks she's doing the right thing? Amazing.

[spectromanx]

i had the same problem with Alex Bettinger.

Same way, but in the end, he give me "free videos" that him already selling.
But the custom, never came.

[RedMountain]

BTW. Krazy Kithos is still claiming on Twitter to have issued a refund. I'm wondering if in her own alternate reality she thinks she's doing the right thing? Amazing.

I'm starting to think maybe she does live in this alternate universe or fantasy land, but it's only a matter of time before she "retires" again, lol.

[Alex Bettinger]

Hey Spectromanx--what custom are you talking about? I do have about 4 custom videos that I am still trying to find time to shoot, a couple of which are VERY long overdue, I admit, but none that I just gave up on. What video are you talking about?

[EvilBilly]

I'm starting to think maybe she does live in this alternate universe or fantasy land, but it's only a matter of time before she "retires" again, lol.

And don't forget the eventual 'un-retirement'.

[spectromanx]

Hey Spectromanx--what custom are you talking about? I do have about 4 custom videos that I am still trying to find time to shoot, a couple of which are VERY long overdue, I admit, but none that I just gave up on. What video are you talking about?

Hi Alex, i can send to you in private all emails we exchange.
There is six months between the first one, and the last one. 2 years ago.