Various Fetishes Explained

[Imagineer]

I bet that not everybody buying the "PG" videos is shopping for specific fetish elements like bear-hugs or low blows or OTS carries. Or is even willing to admit that they have a fetish. Fact is, "fetish" and "porn" ARE highly stigmatized, and I'm sure there are guys (and gals) with hobby money who'll buy a story with a superheroine and a supervillainess grappling and punching and using some superpowers, and they would really rather not think about why. And fifteen groin-punches in a row kinda takes them out of it, but when one of them is on the floor crawling away and the camera gets a really good shot of their ass... nngh.

These are folks who watch Game of Thrones for the story, but hell yes they like the sexual content, well most of the time. And pushing boundaries is arousing, to a point. (And everybody's boundaries are in different places.)

And you know, they're down with getting freaky, or even getting a little kinky, but maybe don't say they have a kink or they have a fetish.

There's an aspect of plausible deniability to the way people deal with pornography and fetishes. The closer something stays to "legit" or "normal" the easier it is to enjoy without worrying about what people might think if they knew, or even what you have to admit to yourself.

And then some of us know exactly what we like, and what we like is as much of our particular favorite thing as we can get... within the context of a story that maintains the suspension of disbelief.

I don't think there's anything wrong with a producer marketing content to people who aren't comfortable with the idea of buying fetish porn. It's the capitalist thing to do, and it makes people happy (and maybe helps people loosen up who really need to). As long as you're not duping anybody into buying or making something they know they don't want, it's all good.

As for explanations, or perhaps better, explorations of specific oft-requested elements, it might be better to take them one at a time and not all at once, to better encourage people who love them to speak up. Some of us (who me) can be chatty and like speculating, and the most useful answers are probably going to come from quieter folks who are really into that one thing. You'll still get lots of different (and conflicting) sources and nuances, but you'll find the common ground that lets you make more people happy with your content.

For that matter, you might get more honest answers if you provide an anonymous feedback form on your website or email address. There are things people might not say even here on this forum for fear of judgement or just inciting arguments.

But whatever you do, all of you producers, keep producing what works for you and your customers. So much wonderful content!

[CustomSuperheroines]

@Bert: I think the conclusion that I think the genre is "weird" came out of nowhere. I don't think any of this is weird. Not understanding and thinking something is weird are two completely different things. And it's certainly not disturbing to me in the slightest.

I also don't believe Alex is being malicious in anyway and actually read recently on another forum that he prefers to do softcore filming when addressing a question from a viewer. I've not scene a single rape scenario from him (but I haven't seen everything I suppose).

We produce very different content, that is true. And my actresses know exactly who is buying the films - and I have a split audience. My point is simply a matter of presentation. And the point of this thread was simply to understand things I don't so that if I want to include them in a film, I do a good job.

There's, for example, an entire community for death fetish. I don't understand that either, however, I have many deaths in my films. Understanding the mechanics has helped me deliver better content for that community-- even though all I did was tweak details of content I already produce.

[Alex Bettinger]

I don't think there's anything wrong with a producer marketing content to people who aren't comfortable with the idea of buying fetish porn. It's the capitalist thing to do, and it makes people happy (and maybe helps people loosen up who really need to). As long as you're not duping anybody into buying or making something they know they don't want, it's all good.

That's a very interesting way of putting it, and I suppose even I would have to concede that point, at least to a certain extent. If you want to sell a product to people who want to pretend that they're not really buying what you're really selling, then of course you're free to do that.

Kind of like when pharmaceutical companies sell people narcotics but make them feel better about it by letting them think that it's "medicine," since it's prescribed by a doctor. It's a lie, of course; but then the lie is what they're selling, right? The consumers want to take drugs, and they also to be able to tell themselves that no, they don't take drugs; and those other people who DO take drugs? Why, they're horrible!

But ultimately I suppose I think this sort of thing can be more harmful than you seem to think. If anything, what you described in your post about people worrying about what others will think about what they watch, not wanting to admit to themselves that they have fetishistic sexual interests, etc.--that's not a very good thing, is it? Not really healthy. Repression, lying to yourself, worrying about judgment, etc. I'm not sure that that sort of anxiety is as harmless as you think. I would humbly suggest that we would be better off if we didn't contribute and facilitate that kind of self-loathing and repression. If someone were to market a superheroine in peril fetish video saying "This is not fetish! Just a mainstream superheroine movie!" then the message it's sending is that your fetish is BAD. And you are bad for liking it. You need to hide your fetish in the clothing of something "mainstream" so no one ever finds out, not even you. No, not harmless.

And of course, I agree when you say the most important thing is that no one is duped into buying or making something they don't want. And this especially goes for the talent--actresses, especially those with "mainstream" aspirations, should be fully aware of what it is they're making. Not being up front about that kind of thing with actresses would be very despicable and not at all harmless. I'm sure all the producers here are very up front and honest with their talent--because not to do so would be plain ol' douchebaggery.

And anyway, I think it's probably the rare consumer who is truly unaware of what he's *really* doing here. If you're here reading this message board, then you should probably be aware that you have fetishes, that your interest in this sort material is fetishistic, etc. If you're still clinging to the idea that no, you don't watch this stuff for sexual or fetishistic reasons, then you're probably dealing with a very unhealthy load of repression.

Probably.

[Shakeshift]

What HE said.

It's the 21st century, and we're STILL hanging on to denial about our sexual hang-ups?

[CustomSuperheroines]

Just to be clear, my actresses read this board and several others. Many have even tried to join it but have not had heir accounts approved.

Marketing is it's own beast. Displaying a video that can appeal to a fetish crowd as well as a mainstream audience doesn't mean I think either audience is wrong or has bad intentions. It's simply marketing.

I think there is way too much thought being put into this. Sex sells. Simply put. It's up to the viewer to determine if it lies within their desires for viewership or not.

[Dragon1]

Ok then all the producers just keep selling and keep pushing the boundaries and we can all sing Kumbaya.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Ok then all the producers just keep selling and keep pushing the boundaries and we can all sing Kumbaya.

lol yup - bottom line is just keep doing whatever we do.

[Danny Ryan]

Since we're in the position of having moved the discussion on, somewhat, from Logan's original (and impossible, probably, to resolve satisfactorily) question, I'm prompted to chime in a bit.

I never had the good fortune or, more importantly, talent to produce the formidable heroine movies these guys make, but for a while I made a few bucks now and again drawing superheroine pictures. There were plenty of things I was asked to draw that did absolutely nothing for me, but then again, there were things that I liked to draw that I knew other guys weren't tickled by. Diff'rent strokes, and all that.

I was never won over by Yvonne Craig in purple rayon, nor, really, Julie Newmar and Lee Meriwether in a Catwoman suit. I get why some guys are, though, because I guess that for them it pushes similar buttons to my love of a great pair of legs in thigh-high boots. I don't know where that comes from, and I don't really care. It just is. And I like it. So when some guy likes Batgirl I can get it, because even though I don't, I do like Ms Marvel.

Where the fighting thing comes from, again I don't know. Maybe it's Robert Aldrich's fault for making The California Dolls. Maybe it's finding copies of the first series of Ms Marvel comics from the seventies. Maybe it's what Jerry and George speculated in Seinfeld, that there was always the suggestion in a catfight that the girls would end up making out. Whatever, girls fighting girls in a fantasy environment pushes my buttons. But some elements only. I can get high-speed chop-socky in the mainstream any day, these days, and it's nothing but a tool to move the drama along. I like certain things and I don't care for other things. I will, therefore, be drawn to a movie where two girls in bathing suits and thigh-high boots perform a specific series of moves, but because it is so niche, it probably counts as fetish porn. And when I say "probably," I mean, "definitely." If I watch a movie where a girl in a colourful costume fights a big villain in a series of king-fu moves, I'm not excited in the same way, and am therefore looking to derive my pleasure from other elements - narrative, dialogue, performance, drama, tension, whatever. In which case this isn't fetish porn. Not for me, anyway, but it very probably is for someone else. I guess (most) people don't consider Kill Bill a fetish movie(s) but Tarantino throws a lot of crotch attacks by women on women in there. So maybe it is.

And to go back to the leg thing - sure, I like to see girls in thigh-high boots, but this is all part of a broader appreciation of a great pair of legs; and an awful, awful lot of guys like to see a great pair of legs. Is it a fetish? Or does the fact (I'm assuming it's a fact) that such an appreciation is so very widespread make it less so, whilst thigh-high boots, for example, draws on a smaller fan base and can therefore be considered fetishistic?

There's far too much socio-psycho water to wade through I doubt we'll ever sort out enough of an answer. Fascinating, though, that this thread has developed into such an interesting read (this post excepted!).

[Imagineer]

Look, when I said some people may not be here for sex, I was in part referring to my own uncertainty that all impulses served by this content are sexual. I find the link between power (and violence) and sex fascinating and sometimes disturbing, but I'm no expert -- and from my layman's perspective it seems like science doesn't have a firm grip on every aspect of either. I think it's possible that not all excitement is sexual, or at least that we tend to extend sexual connotations to all emotional arousal. Hell, the word arousal itself doesn't necessarily mean sexual, but that's how we almost always use the word, to the point that it can be harmful to clarity to use it in a nonsexual sense. (And that's how meaning evolves... I remember once talking to a young writer who wanted desperately to write a story just to use the word holocaust to describe the ring of ash on the end of a cigarette, because he thought it was fantastic that such a powerful word could have such a benign meaning and he wanted to share that. I told him the word was too far gone and using it that way was just button-pushing. He was excited by the idea, even aroused, but was he sexually aroused? I don't know, but that's how I justify this tangent.)

Anyway, I think it's legitimately possible that people are aroused by physical violence or power struggles, even ones that may be portrayed via sexual cues, and that arousal while primal(*) may not be sexual. (If I was in that boat, I could say with more certainty, couldn't I?) And it can be useful in understanding fetish content to look at it just on the basis of a power struggle, and not require a sexual connotation.

And I think you're on to that, Alex, in that you wrote (emphasis mine):

"If you're still clinging to the idea that no, you don't watch this stuff for sexual or fetishistic reasons, then you're probably dealing with a very unhealthy load of repression."

Maybe some fetishes aren't really sexual, and we're stretching the meaning of fetish. Lord knows pop culture abuses the term by applying it to just about any subject of fixation. Is that good because it takes some of the stigma out of the word, or is it bad because it's using the word to denote stigma thereby reinforcing it? I don't know, it depends.

Anyway... I also wasn't talking strictly about people visiting this site and buying content by way of its promotion here. This thread was started by a producer that has multiple labels. Every actor has their own boundaries -- and might not want to make videos under a label that makes content outside those boundaries, even if they trust that they won't personally be asked to exceed them. You spoke of the importance of disclosure to actors because of the sometimes career-stunting power of associations. We don't blame actors for that -- we don't even dare label them hang-ups. But we're enlightened that way here, even while we recognize that mainstream society is not.

Something like Richard Vincent's Superior Girl 1984 (IIRC) could be left in your DVD player and if your housesitter watched it they might not think about it much. Something like DH's Valor is more obviously porn (but maybe not more obviously fetish). You may not feel the slightest twinge of guilt for either, but you might rather not have to explain it to everyone you know, and you might not put it on your Facebook wall. (I don't know how any of this works.) Moreover, you might have more success marketing each of them in separate venues, where buyers of each know objectively what they're getting, but don't need to know or rationalize or even contemplate the existence of the other, and don't necessarily need to confront the loaded word "fetish."

Not everyone is self-aware or enlightened. And not everyone can get there without a gentle path. Sexuality like all human interests is about continuums, not discrete absolutes. Yes, it can be harmful to fool yourself, but it can also be harmful to deny yourself, or to think that any interest outside missionary in the dark with your wife means you must love Two Girls One Cup. (No offense to the Two Girls, or their Cup.) And please don't misunderstand me -- I'm not talking about passing off DH's Valor as merely an indie female version of Captain America. But if you can use things like euphemisms and humor to make people comfortable with indulging what arouses them, not to say "this isn't like that dirty stuff" but rather "this is sexy fun," then they can find out what turns them on and see how fantasy isn't evil without first having to make the leap to defy all the stigma that repressive society can muster.

To lean on a metaphor, I'd rather that people who can't bring themselves to say "I like to fuck" to be making love than to be turning sexual frustration into hatred. I like to think that people making love are more likely to come around to the way of thinking that there's nothing wrong with people fucking.


(*)primal -- one of many many words often tinged with sexual connotation; just in writing this I was surprised at how often I tripped on word selection.

[CustomSuperheroines]

All good stuff... and all still serving the colloquialism - "all in the eye of the beholder". Carry on...

[stationk]

Since we're in the position of having moved the discussion on, somewhat, from Logan's original (and impossible, probably, to resolve satisfactorily) question, I'm prompted to chime in a bit.

I never had the good fortune or, more importantly, talent to produce the formidable heroine movies these guys make, but for a while I made a few bucks now and again drawing superheroine pictures. There were plenty of things I was asked to draw that did absolutely nothing for me, but then again, there were things that I liked to draw that I knew other guys weren't tickled by. Diff'rent strokes, and all that.

I was never won over by Yvonne Craig in purple rayon, nor, really, Julie Newmar and Lee Meriwether in a Catwoman suit. I get why some guys are, though, because I guess that for them it pushes similar buttons to my love of a great pair of legs in thigh-high boots. I don't know where that comes from, and I don't really care. It just is. And I like it. So when some guy likes Batgirl I can get it, because even though I don't, I do like Ms Marvel.

Where the fighting thing comes from, again I don't know. Maybe it's Robert Aldrich's fault for making The California Dolls. Maybe it's finding copies of the first series of Ms Marvel comics from the seventies. Maybe it's what Jerry and George speculated in Seinfeld, that there was always the suggestion in a catfight that the girls would end up making out. Whatever, girls fighting girls in a fantasy environment pushes my buttons. But some elements only. I can get high-speed chop-socky in the mainstream any day, these days, and it's nothing but a tool to move the drama along. I like certain things and I don't care for other things. I will, therefore, be drawn to a movie where two girls in bathing suits and thigh-high boots perform a specific series of moves, but because it is so niche, it probably counts as fetish porn. And when I say "probably," I mean, "definitely." If I watch a movie where a girl in a colourful costume fights a big villain in a series of king-fu moves, I'm not excited in the same way, and am therefore looking to derive my pleasure from other elements - narrative, dialogue, performance, drama, tension, whatever. In which case this isn't fetish porn. Not for me, anyway, but it very probably is for someone else. I guess (most) people don't consider Kill Bill a fetish movie(s) but Tarantino throws a lot of crotch attacks by women on women in there. So maybe it is.

And to go back to the leg thing - sure, I like to see girls in thigh-high boots, but this is all part of a broader appreciation of a great pair of legs; and an awful, awful lot of guys like to see a great pair of legs. Is it a fetish? Or does the fact (I'm assuming it's a fact) that such an appreciation is so very widespread make it less so, whilst thigh-high boots, for example, draws on a smaller fan base and can therefore be considered fetishistic?

There's far too much socio-psycho water to wade through I doubt we'll ever sort out enough of an answer. Fascinating, though, that this thread has developed into such an interesting read (this post excepted!).

I also liked 'All the Marbles', a bit curios, which wrestling or fighting moves you like the most ? I bet hey are f vs f.

[Henchman]

Back on topic, I think someone mentioned earlier that all these micro-fetishes can be explained by the umbrella fetish* of the male power fantasy.

I'm going to go out on a limb and mention that I think "male power fantasy" is a bit of a misnomer. For me, it's a helplessness fantasy. It is the helplessness of the heroine that I enjoy and not at all the fact that the villain happens to be correspondingly powerful. Quicksand peril is a good example here because there is no villain or vicarious empowerment whatsoever in that scenario, just the heroine in peril. How about heroines caught in a spiders web - no villain there to identify with either.

I don't know, but my current thinking for the explanation goes as follows-
I am attracted to femininity.
In my (deeply un-politically correct) mind, feminine equates to being a bit helpless.
Ladies in peril and such utter helplessness therefore = ULTRA feminine and attractiveness off the scale.

Just thought I'd throw that in here to further confuse Logan.

*Note - umbrella fetish meaning all encompassing, catch-all fetish, not a fetish for umbrellas (although those pvc ones are kind of kinky....)

[CustomSuperheroines]

Ladies in peril and such utter helplessness therefore = ULTRA feminine and attractiveness off the scale.

Just thought I'd throw that in here to further confuse Logan.

Actually, THAT statement un-confuses me lol --I can understand that perfectly well

[Danny Ryan]

I also liked 'All the Marbles', a bit curios, which wrestling or fighting moves you like the most ? I bet hey are f vs f.

I should have remembered! Of course it's 'All the Marbles'; it was released as 'The California Dolls' here in the UK. Apparently we didn't understand enough American back in the seventies.

And yes, I'm drawn much more so to FvF, not least because I'd rather see another shapely actress in a form-hugging costume than a big hairy dude in saggy jeans. But also, perhaps, because of the whole girl/girl thing, as posited by Seinfeld I've never much cared for m/f porn, but f/f I can usually watch happily (I say "usually" because the plethora of variety in the digital century can make a fella picky ). Maybe that's why I go for FvF fantasy fighting. That, and maybe MvF can sometimes touch upon certain ugly aspects of real life a little too closely for me to be comfortable. But if that's so, why do I like an MvF movie like 'Scarlet Fox'' (there are other movies too, of course, but I mention SF because it's the latest I've seen)? All I can think of is that there's something more, whether it's in the storytelling, action, character rounding, acting, dialogue, or whatever that moves it into a space that is not "just" fetishistic; it is that too, obviously, but it satisfies additional entertainment criteria also.

I know some mainstream movies contain fetish content because I am aware of the fetishes that they include: low blows in 'Kill Bill' and f/f belly punching in 'All the Marbles' are good examples. Some films I never suspected as catering to a fetish market, however small, but now Logan's mentioned it, I'll never look upon 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way...

[rizoboy]

Now, this is probably going to be a very difficult thread-- I don't want debates-- just clarification, if possible. My favorite colors are purple and white. I don't know why, they just are. And I know that trying to explain a fetish is the same way, however, if possible, there are some fetishes that I know are very popular that I not only don't share, but don't see the appeal. This is not about judging anyone, it's simply about trying to understand. Why? Because I like to make films that appeal to as many people as possible. Because I now have offerings (and work with new producers who will have their own offerings) anywhere from Extremely PG to R/X-rated, I have an open playing field of content I can film.

I do not like to film something for the sake of doing it. I put a lot of work into every film I make and nothing should ever feel forced into a film-- it should feel like it belongs there due to the situation. So here are some fetishes (many are very popular) that I simply don't understand. I want to get a better feel for them-- at least the best way to approach them-- so I can deliver the best high quality films with the most satisfying content possible. So, here are a few:

1. Bear Hugs. I simply don't get it. I do understand that the Heroine is being asphyxiated and she is struggling to get away from the attacker. But for it to be so highly requested, I don't personally understand. Many wrestling moves fall under this category for me...

2. Spanking. Unless I'm doing it, I don't see the appeal. But also, this is one of the hardest fetishes to include in a film. Almost no scenario does it make sense to just start spanking someone.

3. Lifting / Carrying. Okay, this one can be easily interjected into nearly any scene assuming the actors/actresses are physically capable of doing so. Unfortunately, the biggest request is for one female to do it to another. Very slim chance of that happening-- especially in high heels. But more importantly, I don't get the appeal of it. What about it is "Sexy"?

4. Debooting. The actual act of taking off someone's shoes doesn't do anything for me. Is it the "reveal" of the foot underneath? A foot in pantyhose or not in pantyhose underneath, to me, is just going to be stinky, sweaty, and gross... so I know I'm missing something here.

5. Uncaping. I get that it's humiliating to the Heroine. And that could be all it is-- but to the point where it's a fetish? Unmasking is in the same boat.

6. Low Blows. I get the O-face part... but that's about it. And the fact that it's the most tender, devastating area to be hit... but it makes me cringe... and I think they're more funny than sexy... but perhaps because I don't understand the sexuality behind it?

7. AOH. I get this request a lot. It's easy to do. But I don't know WHY I'm doing it so often. Here and there, yes. The lengthened body, sure. But the scenarios that can be done with this type of bondage/restraint are extremely limiting. Most bondage scenarios in general, I don't understand.

8. Breast Destruction. Okay, ouch. Touch them, squeeze them-- I get it. Lovely. But to beat them up? That seems a bit counterproductive to the process of seeing a woman's body as a symbol of beauty...

9. Chokeouts. In a fight and as part of such, I got it. But they seem so-- not attractive to me?

10. Belly Punching. This is a common fight sequence/move. But I don't understand how it can turn someone on.

Okay, so those are my top 10-- they are meant to just put out there so perhaps a little clarity can be added. It may be a case of "I just like it" and that's all there is to it. But a lot of those are requested repeatedly and I always have to question if we're doing it as good as possible for delivery. Each of these will have a separate opinion on "how" it should be done too. That's never 100% black and white, but the "why" behind doing it helps when mixing it into the scenes we shoot.

By the way, there are a lot of fetishes/likes that I do share and definitely see the appeal for-- and when I enjoy them myself, it's easy to communicate to an actress on how to do it right. It's all for making better films.

I'll explain my POV on the fetishes one by one (why I like some and not others)

1. Bear Hugs (or any wrestling move): The physicality of putting the heroine through a fast, devastating move that makes her suffer. But for me it has to be fast, fluid, part of the natural process of beating her and not to be lingering on it for five straight minutes. Just show the move, move on to the next, then the next. A few successive wall slams I don't mind.

2. Spanking: Not my cup of tea AT ALL. It's so timid. What are you, trying to turn her on? It's so....childish. Big turn off for me.

3. Lifting/Carrying: Do it only when you're dropping her quickly, either over the knee for a backbreaker or slamming against wall/object.

4. Debooting: This is a hard one for me. I love the CONCEPT of a heroine bootless facing a villain who is in full uniform. A heroine in naked feet is such a turn on because you see her as vulnerable against a fully uniformed villainess. But the PROCESS of debooting is tricky. The logic behind it is flawed. so what I usually like to see is a heroine in civvies at home and barefoot... and a villainess breaking in and beating her while she is barefoot. The contrast is what is sexy, not the actual debooting for me.

5. Uncaping: ONLY if you use the cape to choke her out. Sometimes, for added humiliation, stuff the cape in her mouth as she is down.

6. Low Blows: Once again, a few sequences but don't linger on it. It's only painful if it's not repetitive. The key is to show the heroine getting hit down there and the effect.

7. AOH: Meh. Sometimes it's fine i guess. The idea of chaining up a heroine and hitting her while she can't hit back is what I find sexy. Maybe have her bleed and sweat while chained.

8. Breast Destruction: A favorite of mine. Something so tender and vulnerable being scratched, whipped, smacked. It's the sound AND the motion, just the total violation of a heroine that turns me on there.

9. Chokeouts: Rattling chokeouts are my favorite, where the villain grabs her and rattles her hard as she tries to pull his hands away, but he keeps on going until she is out or dead.

10. Belly punching. Same as low blows. Don't overdo.

Hope this explains my personal opinions!

[rizoboy]

"If you're still clinging to the idea that no, you don't watch this stuff for sexual or fetishistic reasons, then you're probably dealing with a very unhealthy load of repression."

This describes me to be honest. It's been hard to admit but it's the actual reality. I DON'T want to see the sexual aspect of it because I don't go for porn. And it's part of an actual repression for me. The fetish (heroine being beaten) feeds that repression. The idea of a woman in power losing that power. It's tough to admit. I don't know how many of you out there feel the same way i do. But I've grown to accept that's a part of me. The act of sex kind of ruins it.

[Dragon1]

the sexual peril vids generally outsell the just fighting.

[CustomSuperheroines]

the sexual peril vids generally outsell the just fighting.

That's not true at all. Our Heroine Kombat films are almost completely fighting and the only fetishes lie in certain moves. It's our highest selling series by far.

[Dragon1]

Producers that produce both tell me all the time that the sexual perial outsell just fighting. Look at SHG top Vids, Primal top selling vids as well as many others. Logan you are just entering the sexual perial and you will see.

[Danny Ryan]

"If you're still clinging to the idea that no, you don't watch this stuff for sexual or fetishistic reasons, then you're probably dealing with a very unhealthy load of repression."

This describes me to be honest. It's been hard to admit but it's the actual reality. I DON'T want to see the sexual aspect of it because I don't go for porn. And it's part of an actual repression for me. The fetish (heroine being beaten) feeds that repression. The idea of a woman in power losing that power. It's tough to admit. I don't know how many of you out there feel the same way i do. But I've grown to accept that's a part of me. The act of sex kind of ruins it.

The act of sex ruins it for me, too, but for different reasons, I think. I've never really been drawn to straight m/f porn, so it's no surprise to me that I don't care for it in my fantasy superheroine movies. That still leaves plenty of sexual & fetishistic attractors, and they're largely centered around elements of costume and fighting. The more I think about it, my tastes seem fairly mild and straightforward

Like so much else, the sheer volume available these days means that a buyer not only can but does get very choosy about what he will buy. If you don't see anything you like today, you'll likely find something that fits the bill sooner or later. Ten years ago we ate up (pardon the expression) pretty much everything there was because that was all there was. Now there's so much, I can ignore what I think I won't like and wait for what I think I will. As Alex says, somewhere in here, we're all very personally specific in what we want. I've seen a trailer for one of Logan's movies, for example, which stars Tiffany Chase. The actress and the action look like my cup of tea but for a couple of changes; I want the Shadowgirl costume and I want the bad guy to be a girl. As long as Logan's still in business, I'm reasonably confident I'll get what I want, one day. I'm not unaware, though, that the market is finite, of course, and my fussiness contributes to the fragility of this particular economic niche. It's got to be tough if you're a producer, and I can understand why Logan asked the question in the first place.

Crap. I've rambled off the response yet again...

[maar13]

Wow, a lot in those I have no explanation for aswell. The unmasking was well explained by Heroine Addict though. I'm mostly in it for knockouts and other sorts of peril, but not really certain actions.

Bear hugs: Don't really care for it, but if the heroine passes out, you have a great shot of an unconscious heroine in the arms of the villain.

Lifting/Carrying: Again, mostly for the knockouts. If knocked out, an arm carry is a great shot. So is an over the shoulder carry.

Chokeouts: And again, only interesting with a knockout in mind. You can get a nice eye-roll during the process while in close contact with the villain.

I think these three are mostly requested from a KO type fetish. The KO with an unconscious shot is the goal, but to get there can be done in different ways. The different ways emphasize different aspects of the knockout as well. The carrying emphasizes the limp body, while chokeouts emphasize facial expression. Bear hugs can do both, but I have a hard time believing them. I've never seen a real life bear hug and I doubt anyone (especially a heroine) can be knocked out by it.

Lastly, I think spankings have to do with the degrading of a character. It's not the biggest humiliation you can get but it asserts dominance, I guess?

The others I don't know. I'm not a particular fan of belly punching, low blows, debooting. Breast destruction is just a downright no for me.

I'm with you on the breast destruction - but it's highly requested... I guess my next question, going to a KO guy-- how is a KO shot different than a shot of a girl sleeping?

I am on the same boat for bearhugs, chokeouts and carries.

As far as how is it a sleeping girl different from a koed girl? Pretty much the situation that lead from oje to another, is not the same to see Allura going to sleep in her pijamas than getting put to sleep by a villain of any gender, the perilious aspect is there, at least for me.

And the AOH thing, I don't really know, it seems to show the heroines body in a sexy way, I was not that much of a fan until I stated getting movies with it and started to like it a bit, not a huge fan, but a bit.

And about the demasking, truth be told, I am not a huge fan of masks, some I liek but at the end, I rather see the girl's face with out it, that is why sometimes I ask for.it after a ko or before a ko scene.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Producers that produce both tell me all the time that the sexual perial outsell just fighting. Look at SHG top Vids, Primal top selling vids as well as many others. Logan you are just entering the sexual perial and you will see.

Sexual Peril costs me A LOT more to film. So even if it sells more, it would have to sell A LOT more for it to be worth it-- which is what I'm testing now.

[maar13]

"If you're still clinging to the idea that no, you don't watch this stuff for sexual or fetishistic reasons, then you're probably dealing with a very unhealthy load of repression."

This describes me to be honest. It's been hard to admit but it's the actual reality. I DON'T want to see the sexual aspect of it because I don't go for porn. And it's part of an actual repression for me. The fetish (heroine being beaten) feeds that repression. The idea of a woman in power losing that power. It's tough to admit. I don't know how many of you out there feel the same way i do. But I've grown to accept that's a part of me. The act of sex kind of ruins it.

While not completely the same, sex in there ruins it for me too. My fetish relies on powerful heroines, who are outsmarted or overpowered (mostly by ko), but comeback and win at the end of the day.

Loved Wonder Woman and Batgirl from TV for that.

[stationk]

I also liked 'All the Marbles', a bit curios, which wrestling or fighting moves you like the most ? I bet hey are f vs f.

I should have remembered! Of course it's 'All the Marbles'; it was released as 'The California Dolls' here in the UK. Apparently we didn't understand enough American back in the seventies.

And yes, I'm drawn much more so to FvF, not least because I'd rather see another shapely actress in a form-hugging costume than a big hairy dude in saggy jeans. But also, perhaps, because of the whole girl/girl thing, as posited by Seinfeld I've never much cared for m/f porn, but f/f I can usually watch happily (I say "usually" because the plethora of variety in the digital century can make a fella picky ). Maybe that's why I go for FvF fantasy fighting. That, and maybe MvF can sometimes touch upon certain ugly aspects of real life a little too closely for me to be comfortable. But if that's so, why do I like an MvF movie like 'Scarlet Fox'' (there are other movies too, of course, but I mention SF because it's the latest I've seen)? All I can think of is that there's something more, whether it's in the storytelling, action, character rounding, acting, dialogue, or whatever that moves it into a space that is not "just" fetishistic; it is that too, obviously, but it satisfies additional entertainment criteria also.

I know some mainstream movies contain fetish content because I am aware of the fetishes that they include: low blows in 'Kill Bill' and f/f belly punching in 'All the Marbles' are good examples. Some films I never suspected as catering to a fetish market, however small, but now Logan's mentioned it, I'll never look upon 'Blazing Saddles' again in quite the same way...

heh heh, yes, it's better FvF, I can't see much storytelling on much of the videos except on stuff like the first Skyfire (haven't seem the 2nd) since it's all about 'superheroine in peril', as far as the fighting/wrestling goes, you didn't said which moves you like, I like 'holding moves' the most, like over the knee back-breaker, sleeper hold and some impact moves if used as 'finishers' like the pile driver.

[Imagineer]

Back on topic, I think someone mentioned earlier that all these micro-fetishes can be explained by the umbrella fetish* of the male power fantasy.

Actually, I don't think I said male. Did someone else?

For me, it's a helplessness fantasy. It is the helplessness of the heroine that I enjoy and not at all the fact that the villain happens to be correspondingly powerful. Quicksand peril is a good example here because there is no villain or vicarious empowerment whatsoever in that scenario, just the heroine in peril. How about heroines caught in a spiders web - no villain there to identify with either.

Yes. Definitely. Losing power. Powerlessness. Every time a heroine actually says "oh no, my powers" or "my powers are gone" my credit card bill goes up.

Spider's web? Penthouse, October 1976, "The Spider and the Fly." So much fetish fuel.

I don't know, but my current thinking for the explanation goes as follows-
I am attracted to femininity.
In my (deeply un-politically correct) mind, feminine equates to being a bit helpless.
Ladies in peril and such utter helplessness therefore = ULTRA feminine and attractiveness off the scale.

I think you can point to evolution as a source for this.

Now be careful where you point that umbrella, buddy.

[Alex Bettinger]

I really appreciated your first post, Imagineer, though I confess I really have very little idea what you're talking about in your last post. I think we are, as they say, talking past each other. For example, you say, as though it were something that someone might disagree with: "I think it's possible that not all excitement is sexual..." And then you go to great lengths to point out that we are sometimes intensely interested in things that are not sexual.

Yes, absolutely. Who on earth would suggest otherwise? I am intensely interested and passionate about a ton of things that having nothing to do with sex, or only marginally so.

What do you think you can conclude from that?

My point is a much more narrow one. My point is about videos featuring sexy, scantily clad superheroines in peril. If you find yourself intensely interested in seeing depictions of sexy women in scanty outfits being beaten up or humiliated or knocked out or sprawled out on the floor and helpless or moaning or gasping or being held tightly in bear hugs or choke holds while they weakly struggle, etc etc etc...then THAT intense interest, if you're a heterosexual male, is going to be sexual. It makes no difference if you don't like "traditional" porn; it makes no difference if you don't care to see the superheroine having actual sex with a man or woman. If you're intensely interested in these images and scenarios of peril, such that you are aroused by them, then THAT is porn for you.

You hypothesize the possible existence of someone who is intensely interested in sexy scantily clad women being beaten up or knocked out or humiliated or rendered weak or helpless or tied up, etc etc., but where that intense interest would NOT be sexual. I cannot imagine what such an interest would be. I think you're grasping at very odd straws at that point. Sorry. I don't think any such animal exists.

And honestly, if there's someone out there who does really enjoy seeing superheroines being beat up and defeated, but truly NOT because he gets any kind of sexual kick out of it, but just has some nameless drive or fascination to see those images of peril over and over again, then honestly I do NOT want to know that person! Sounds very fuckin creepy. Probably because that's not a real person. That's a fictional being you made up to try to make the point that there MIGHT be people who have "fetishistic" interests in seeing sexy scantily clad women in states of peril and distress and helplessness, but with NO sexual component. Sorry man, that's just not a real thing.

[Dragon1]

Alex you are correct. in another forum I made a comment and asked you a question when you get a chance.

[Elseph]

6. Low Blows. I get the O-face part... but that's about it. And the fact that it's the most tender, devastating area to be hit... but it makes me cringe... and I think they're more funny than sexy... but perhaps because I don't understand the sexuality behind it?

I'm a low blow fan and I've never put much thought into why I particularly like them, but I'll give it a go now with some theories.

Generally if you like superheroines videos, you're in it either for the action/fighting or for the sexual aspects, perhaps both.

Sexy Attack? As a fight move that targets the crotch/genitalia (a sexual area), low blows combine the 2. When a low blow is executed the attacker touches the heroines genitalia (albeit aggressively), the heroine then reacts by touching/holding her own crotch, combined with the O-face, rubbing, moaning etc. it's all very sexual. This is why any low blow fan will tell you, the reactions are just as important as the low blow itself, if not more so. Good contact when delivering a low blow is also important. I like knee strikes where the attacker grinds their knee in the opponents crotch after the initial strike, as it maintains this sexual contact.

I want to see super-heroines being sexy whilst kicking ass! Beautiful actresses and sexy costumes help, but low blows allow some sexual contact during a fight whilst maintaining peril without having to switch completely to a more sex based scene.

Humiliation? Despite how big or powerful a heroine/villainess is, they all have this one common weakness by which they can be taken down easily. The crotch is a "private" sexual area so to be attacked there just like being groped is humiliating. It also forces the heroine to have to hold/rub themselves after being attacked, when else would you see heroines touching themselves during a fight?

Pain/Pleasure Low Blows like "finishers" that wrestlers use are a big tide-turning move with devastating effect and are exciting to watch. But if somebody can get close enough to deliver a low blow, they could equally generate a lot of pleasure so there's also a bit of a power thing. I quite like the scenario where a heroine is having her crotch pleasured before receiving a low blow that contrasts that pleasure into pain. It's a bit like tease & denial but worse!

Low blows are generally seen as "fighting dirty" so can be particularly well used to show how despicable a villain is, or used maliciously by a villain when torturing or toying with a heroine just to cause extra pain and rub salt into the wound. I also like seeing heroines take a few low blows, before using low blows themselves out of desperation/retribution.

So yeah, I think the sexual contact of the low blow and the reaction that follows makes it a sexy move, but at the same time it's a valid and effective attack in an exciting/dangerous fight scenario. If you were in a real life/death fight, you'd be foolish not to try a low blow!

I think the "funny" side of low blows is just ingrained humor from the past where you'd see a guy get hit in the nuts in TV/Movies accompanied by a comical sound effect, followed by the guy talking in a high-pitched voice. You don't really see that so much anymore, so I think that idea has died a bit.

Think I drifted off there a bit, it's late and I don't think I expressed myself very well, but it's late so that'll have to do!

[CustomSuperheroines]

That's a fictional being you made up to try to make the point that there MIGHT be people who have "fetishistic" interests in seeing sexy scantily clad women in states of peril and distress and helplessness, but with NO sexual component. Sorry man, that's just not a real thing.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding this part of the post, but I enjoy this film and many of the fetish-type scenarios that come with it, but it does nothing sexual for me. I watch these, obviously as a producer, but still with enjoyment to view them with absolutely no sexual interest in mind. Other producers' work as well.

I agree the girls are sexy, but my interest in watching it - even enjoying the knock-outs - is purely non-sexual. Because it's not about seeing a woman being defeated or beaten. It's about the fantasy scenario of the superhero actually losing the fight that I find appealing - and to see it be a woman is just more visually appealing than seeing a male. e.g. Supergirl is more aesthetically pleasing to me than Superman.

As long as it doesn't feel like a real domestic abuse / rape / whatever situation, I enjoy these films as much as the "fetishist" who purchases them.

[Alex Bettinger]

So you mean to tell me that if you were not a producer, just someone who found out about this genre for whatever reason, that you would purchase superheroine in peril videos--videos that clearly exist for the primary purpose of depicting sexy superheroines being defeated--and watch them, even though they do nothing sexual for you? You'd spend $30 or $40 bucks just to watch 25 minutes or so of a woman being defeated. Why?

Why would you find seeing a woman defeated appealing?

Would you also purchase videos of MALE superheroes being beaten up, humiliated, defeated, etc. If not, why not?

I really don't think you are being sincere, Logan. Sorry.

[CustomSuperheroines]

So you mean to tell me that if you were not a producer, just someone who found out about this genre for whatever reason, that you would purchase superheroine in peril videos--videos that clearly exist for the primary purpose of depicting sexy superheroines being defeated--and watch them, even though they do nothing sexual for you? You'd spend $30 or $40 bucks just to watch 25 minutes or so of a woman being defeated. Why?

Why would you find seeing a woman defeated appealing?

Would you also purchase videos of MALE superheroes being beaten up, humiliated, defeated, etc. If not, why not?

I really don't think you are being sincere, Logan. Sorry.

Would I buy videos with males? No. I already said that. But depending on the producer, the videos don't seem any different than what I see on YouTube other than the female losing.

And you're still basing this on the idea that is purchase these with the sole intention of seeing the woman defeated.

If it were me as a buyer, I see it simply as the villains winning-- something you don't see everyday. And I would be buying it because the girls are hot, not because they are losing. Just as many of my buyers do.

If I wasn't a producer, would I buy them? Well, prior to working with Allen on The Battle for Earth, I didn't even know this genre existed.

You have it embedded in your mind that because you produce for sexual reasons that all buyers must be buying for sexual reasons and I don't agree with that at all.

**i should clarify that this probably only pertains to PG videos for obvious reasons.

[Alex Bettinger]

This is the most amusing conversation I've had in a long time.

You didn't really answer the question. Would you personally spend $40 for like a 25 minute movie that had very little if any story and was just about a scantily clad superheroine being defeated?

You implied that it's kind of interesting to see villains win (NOT the heroines lose, you insist, which is comical). And you would be interested just because the girls are hot. So you have a non-sexual interest in seeing hot girls lose--oh sorry, not lose, just the villains win. Funny.

I can guarantee you that no one is spending $40 for a 25 minute video just because the girls are hot. There are hot girls everywhere, in superheorine costumes and out of them. No one spends that kind of money because they have non-sexual interest in hot girls playing superheroines where the villains WIN (but of course, not really interested in the girls losing).

And anyway, if you're buying a video because the girls are hot, then yeah, it's sexual. And if you're only interested because it's something you don't see everyday (villains winning), then sure--you might be interested in buying one or maybe two. But then you've seen it...why would you keep buying them? And if you don't keep buying them, then you're obviously not the kind of consumer we've been talking about.

Someone who is not interested in peril spending lots of money on PERIL videos is what doesn't ring true to me.

[Mr. X]

Someone who is not interested in peril spending lots of money on PERIL videos is what doesn't ring true to me.

It could be his videos have just enough peril to draw in a customer. He does KO them once in a while. Also noticed they are more risque like pulling on costumes and such. Personally I didn't understand how he was affording to make these with NO boobs or ass showing. No mauling or groping. And he has apparently a "staff" which again I find odd given that there can't be that much ROI on these to pay people unless they are volunteering. But he is clothing the girls and somewhat chaining them. Maybe he provides just enough fetish to get buyers.

Maybe its the same reason people buy wrestle videos. No nudity in those but apparently wrestling sells. So it could be the physical action is enough of a draw. Sleeperkid sells a lot of vids and there's no nudity/bondage or even plots, just wrestling

[CustomSuperheroines]

This is the most amusing conversation I've had in a long time.

You didn't really answer the question. Would you personally spend $40 for like a 25 minute movie that had very little if any story and was just about a scantily clad superheroine being defeated?

You implied that it's kind of interesting to see villains win (NOT the heroines lose, you insist, which is comical). And you would be interested just because the girls are hot. So you have a non-sexual interest in seeing hot girls lose--oh sorry, not lose, just the villains win. Funny.

I can guarantee you that no one is spending $40 for a 25 minute video just because the girls are hot. There are hot girls everywhere, in superheorine costumes and out of them. No one spends that kind of money because they have non-sexual interest in hot girls playing superheroines where the villains WIN (but of course, not really interested in the girls losing).

And anyway, if you're buying a video because the girls are hot, then yeah, it's sexual. And if you're only interested because it's something you don't see everyday (villains winning), then sure--you might be interested in buying one or maybe two. But then you've seen it...why would you keep buying them? And if you don't keep buying them, then you're obviously not the kind of consumer we've been talking about.

Someone who is not interested in peril spending lots of money on PERIL videos is what doesn't ring true to me.

Again, you are depicting them as peril videos, fetish videos, etc. and to the people on this board, that is exactly what it is.

But to an outsider, why can't they spend the money on it? It can't be about the villains winning? It can't be just to see hot girls in cosplay fighting? Why does it HAVE to be a sexual reason?

Seems a bit closed-minded to me. But you and I produce very different types of films. Perhaps your market is 100% peril fetish. Mine isn't. That isn't up for debate or discussion.

I'm not in any way stating that the viewers on this board are not here to purchase certain types of videos for sexual reasons. But there have been viewers who have clearly stated that it's not sexual for them. Seeing hot girls isn't sexual-- it's of a sexual nature, but not "whack off" status.

Very amusing indeed, but only because the view on this is so narrow-sighted, seemingly.

[Alex Bettinger]

Oh, Mr X I think that last line of mine was not worded particularly clearly.

I didn't mean Logan as a producer spending lots of money on peril videos. I meant Logan as the hypothetical CUSTOMER--someone who has no sexual interest in seeing sexy superheroine defeated (as he's insisted several times), but who still enjoys the movies and, apparently, would spend lots of money to buy and watch them. Even though it's not sexual. Even though the girls need to be hot. Just as long as the villains win (but that the heroines are defeated, no that's not interesting to him). Yeah, THAT's the customer that doesn't ring true to me.

[Alex Bettinger]

I'll ask you again, Logan. Would YOU spend $40 for a 25 minute video that had little story, and was just about a superheroine fighting a villain and getting her ass kicked badly.

Would you spend hundreds of dollars on many of them?

If not, then you're not who we've been talking about.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I'll ask you again, Logan. Would YOU spend $40 for a 25 minute video that had little story, and was just about a superheroine fighting a villain and getting her ass kicked badly.

Would you spend hundreds of dollars on many of them?

If not, then you're not who we've been talking about.

Lol I DO spend hundreds on these. So yes I would and do. And there's no sexual reason for it.

And whether I do or don't isn't the point. The point is not everyone buys them for sexual reasons.

[Alex Bettinger]

Sure, you do because you're a producer. The question is, if you were NOT a producer, would you still spend hundreds of dollars on them? Like would you have a library of superheroine in peril videos, and watch them over and over?

[Mr. X]

Oh, Mr X I think that last line of mine was not worded particularly clearly.

I didn't mean Logan as a producer spending lots of money on peril videos. I meant Logan as the hypothetical CUSTOMER--someone who has no sexual interest in seeing sexy superheroine defeated (as he's insisted several times), but who still enjoys the movies and, apparently, would spend lots of money to buy and watch them. Even though it's not sexual. Even though the girls need to be hot. Just as long as the villains win (but that the heroines are defeated, no that's not interesting to him). Yeah, THAT's the customer that doesn't ring true to me.

Oh I understood what you were saying and I agree it doesn't sound right GIVEN what I assume he spends on a production. He's gotta be making a fair amount given the cost of the girls or money comes from somewhere else. Even if the male labor is free I doubt the girls are cheap. Like $1000 plus a day rates. And I doubt there is some large audience of non-sexually interested fans out there. You don't spend money on hot, wanna be actresses and models when your customers aren't interested in hot chics.

But then I was proposing that it maybe people similar to the wrestling fans who buy wrestle videos and don't want to see nudity or sexual peril but just fighting. Wrestling doesn't have sex in it and people buy those. Again Sleeperkid apparently sells a lot of wrestling vids and they have no real plots or sex. But clearly the wrestling fan is "turned on" or the vids would just be about fat ugly girls if its JUST wrestling.

For a super heroine erotica thing I'm not really buying that premise given that other vendors would be cashing in like mad. especially the ones not having nudity. I just don't buy that heroine nerds want "clean" entertainment with NO sexuality. Yeah I really doubt anyone is buying these vids cause they have no sexual drive what so ever to do so.

Also the questions about not understanding the fetishes seems odd to me. Why ask if he's clearly making something that apparently interests him. Again I never understood questions like this at all. If you have no interest in the genre then it can't be explained to you and so you won't make anything good. He clearly has SOME kind of interest.

[Alex Bettinger]

I would consider sleeperkid's site to be an obvious fetish site--I mean, it caters to very specific sorts of fetishes (knockouts especially), he does almost all custom videos if I'm not mistaken, etc.

Actual professional wrestling is a more interesting example--but then, I also don't think that "real" pro wrestling matches are made in so obviously a fetishistic way as the superheroine in peril vids we talk about here. I mean, every single video we talk about here typically features the good girl being brutalized in very specific and fetishistic ways. It seems clear from wrestling shows like WWE and TNA that they simply don't have any such interest in those sorts of fetishistic representations. I know, because it's only been on like 2 or 3 occasions in my LIFE that there has been a truly sexy hot fetish moment in a WWE or TNA or ECW wrestling ring. Mostly it's just sort of the usual back and forth wrestling. But that is a good example--I can see a sexy series like that that did NOT feature the good girl losing every time, that could easily be of interest to wrestling fans without much of a sexual interest in it. But that doesn't sound like the videos we talk about here.

[Mr. X]

I agree there. And If just hot babes sold vids then sites like Super Sexy Heroines or Adara Steel would be very profitable. Other vendors wouldn't be resorting to nudity/sex etc. Now I have seen some girls I just had to buy the video for cause they were hot BUT that's really rare.

I agree that there's a sexual kink reason to buy these vids. My point was even if there are a few people out there not interested in sexual kink but just want hot girls and winning villains there is no way they would be enough to fund the number of videos they make with the models they use AND the editing they do. Its kink.

[Alex Bettinger]

Yes.

After all, we can of course imagine someone who watches PORN for non-sexual reasons. Maybe because it's funny, or maybe he's doing a study of representations of sex, or maybe he just finds the sounds of porn soothing and likes to fall asleep listening to it. And sure, there might be some customers who buy a peril video or two for reasons that have nothing to do with a sexual interest in superheroines in peril. But those are clearly the outliers, random anomalies, etc.

And at any rate, how the hell does anyone know that someone buys their videos for non-sexual reasons? I mean, we know for a FACT that people buy them for sexual reasons, because there are a ton of them here talking about them in sexual, fetishistic ways.

Where are the message boards where people are talking about these videos strictly in non-sexual, non-fetish ways? If there really are tons of customers buying them for non-sexual reasons, where are they? What do they talk about?

And I'll say it again: just because a customer comes to one of these sites from a non-fetish source--say, a mainstream comicbook convention--that does NOT entitle the producer to conclude that that buyer must have a non-sexual reason for buying it. You don't know WHY he's buying it.

What we DO know is that tons of people buy these videos for fetishistic reasons. We got plenty of proof of that. What I've never seen is any proof of people buying them for purely NON-sexual reasons. Just because they really like the novelty of seeing the villains win, say.

Show me the message board where they're having these non-fetish discussions...I might change my mind.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I agree there. And If just hot babes sold vids then sites like Super Sexy Heroines or Adara Steel would be very profitable. Other vendors wouldn't be resorting to nudity/sex etc. Now I have seen some girls I just had to buy the video for cause they were hot BUT that's really rare.

I agree that there's a sexual kink reason to buy these vids. My point was even if there are a few people out there not interested in sexual kink but just want hot girls and winning villains there is no way they would be enough to fund the number of videos they make with the models they use AND the editing they do. Its kink.

I never said the ones who purchase for the sake of seeing hot superheroines were the majority. They're not. But a bulk of our viewers are in that category. Perhaps it's just hard to envision that since this board is where most of the talk happens-- and it's all about defeated women and the such. But that's clearly just perception.

A Superheroine getting a fetish beatdown or a Superheroine in a fight way over her head? Depends on how you WANT to look at it. Some of it depends on the way it is filmed and the content, surely. But MOST of it is interpretation of the viewer.

[Alex Bettinger]

But Logan, how do you know that a "bulk" of your viewers have non-sexual interests in your peril videos? What proof do you have?

As I mentioned, we have plenty of proof of people buying these movies for fetishistic reasons. What proof do you have that there are customers who don't have any sexual interest in them at all?

And don't say because they come from non-fetish sources like comicbook conventions, etc. That's not a logical proof of their having a non-sexual, non-fetishistic motivation.

[Mr. X]

Well maybe he tapped into some yet unseen market, who knows. More power to him. He does have some top quality products. I just don't understand the "what are these fetishes" questions. If he's not making something that interests him then what is he making and how does that make money? he's got to understand at least some kind of fetish, that or its someone else making the videos that has the fetish itch. And villains winning WOULD be a fetish.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Yes.

After all, we can of course imagine someone who watches PORN for non-sexual reasons. Maybe because it's funny, or maybe he's doing a study of representations of sex, or maybe he just finds the sounds of porn soothing and likes to fall asleep listening to it. And sure, there might be some customers who buy a peril video or two for reasons that have nothing to do with a sexual interest in superheroines in peril. But those are clearly the outliers, random anomalies, etc.

And at any rate, how the hell does anyone know that someone buys their videos for non-sexual reasons? I mean, we know for a FACT that people buy them for sexual reasons, because there are a ton of them here talking about them in sexual, fetishistic ways.

Where are the message boards where people are talking about these videos strictly in non-sexual, non-fetish ways? If there really are tons of customers buying them for non-sexual reasons, where are they? What do they talk about?

And I'll say it again: just because a customer comes to one of these sites from a non-fetish source--say, a mainstream comicbook convention--that does NOT entitle the producer to conclude that that buyer must have a non-sexual reason for buying it. You don't know WHY he's buying it.

What we DO know is that tons of people buy these videos for fetishistic reasons. We got plenty of proof of that. What I've never seen is any proof of people buying them for purely NON-sexual reasons. Just because they really like the novelty of seeing the villains win, say.

Show me the message board where they're having these non-fetish discussions...I might change my mind.

You're a member of the boards that contain members who clearly state that sexual peril is the last thing they care about. The point is, the websites linking in to my site are not all fetish-based.

What I DO know for certain is when I receive emails asking for videos that do not contain sexual content and those videos are purchased. That is a cut and dry example right there. When Heroine Kombat films are ordered for customs who just want to see a fatality done that mimics the video game. Those buyers exist by the dozens.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Well maybe he tapped into some yet unseen market, who knows. More power to him. He does have some top quality products. I just don't understand the "what are these fetishes" questions. If he's not making something that interests him then what is he making and how does that make money? he's got to understand at least some kind of fetish, that or its someone else making the videos that has the fetish itch. And villains winning WOULD be a fetish.

I don't need to understand the fetish itself. Only the mechanics behind it. Most adult actresses do not share the fetishes they act out-- but they do understand what key aspects to a particular fetish make it sell for the viewer.

[Alex Bettinger]

What I DO know for certain is when I receive emails asking for videos that do not contain sexual content and those videos are purchased. That is a cut and dry example right there. When Heroine Kombat films are ordered for customs who just want to see a fatality done that mimics the video game. Those buyers exist by the dozens.

That's ridiculous and you know it. This whole discussion BEGAN with an inquiry into NON-sex actions that fans clearly have a sexual interest in. Low blows, bear hugs, sleeper holds, unmasking, etc. These are not sex acts. That doesn't mean they are not sexual, that doesn't mean the fans that want to see them don't have a sexual interest in them.

You know this, of course, since you asked the question to begin with. That's really your proof? That you get requests for videos with no sex in them? So do I. We all do. That's because these are FETISH videos.

[CustomSuperheroines]

What I DO know for certain is when I receive emails asking for videos that do not contain sexual content and those videos are purchased. That is a cut and dry example right there. When Heroine Kombat films are ordered for customs who just want to see a fatality done that mimics the video game. Those buyers exist by the dozens.

That's ridiculous and you know it. This whole discussion BEGAN with an inquiry into NON-sex actions that fans clearly have a sexual interest in. Low blows, bear hugs, sleeper holds, unmasking, etc. These are not sex acts. That doesn't mean they are not sexual, that doesn't mean the fans that want to see them don't have a sexual interest in them.

You know this, of course, since you asked the question to begin with. That's really your proof? That you get requests for videos with no sex in them? So do I. We all do. That's because these are FETISH videos.

I didn't say "no sex" in them. I said "not sexual". I am constantly asked for combat-only videos. That's what we do best. Some producers do softcore scenes. Some do bondage. We do fights. That's our niche.

And we do plenty of custom orders for non-fetish scenarios. Most films we do are customs.

We also do A LOT of fetish customs. I'm saying that both audiences exist. I don't know what else to tell you. They're real. Lol

And my question here is targeted at fetish viewers on a fetish forum. It has nothing to do with those other viewers.

[Mr. X]

What I DO know for certain is when I receive emails asking for videos that do not contain sexual content and those videos are purchased. That is a cut and dry example right there. When Heroine Kombat films are ordered for customs who just want to see a fatality done that mimics the video game. Those buyers exist by the dozens.

Hate to break the news to you but that is a fetish and BIG sexual one. Some call that a SNUFF fetish. Wanting to see a girl beaten IS a fetish. Yes they want to see A HOT BABE GET A FATALITY from something they saw in a game. In fact they probably do the fatality in the game over and over.

So do any of them ask for ugly people to get fatalities? You're flat out providing a fetish. Girl gets a fatality. Girl gets shot. SHC videos were mostly the girl getting beaten by monsters and we had a lot of viewers.

I think you're not understand what a fetish is.

On a side note I have actually gotten requests from one or two people wanting JUST PLOT and no sex in my poser comics but I'd hardly call them a huge audience of paying customers.