Various Fetishes Explained

[robopope25]

I'll chime in here:

I buy both mainstream and fetish superhero stuff there is no way in HELL i am going to spend 30-40 dollars on a superhero video that has no fetish element in it. And yes people do spend 30-50 dollars on superman or batman stuff but when i do so i get hours and hours of content. I am a huge batman fan but if the next Batman film came out and it was 50 dollars on blu-ray NO I would not buy it. Now if it was a box set with 3 or 4 films hell yes I would.

I am willing to ONLY pay a premium if it's stuff I'll never see in mainstream cinema. Wonder Woman will NEVER get kicked in the vag, beg for her life, then lie defeated under a bad guy's foot. it won't ever happen. So i'll pay to see that.

I am a huge fetish fan and i have bought videos from sleeperkid, alex, next global crisis all of them. I have never bought heroine legends videos. Why? They are way too expensive. And this is from a fan who's wanted to see Mortal Kombat style deaths SO I COULD JERK OFF TO THEM. And i still can't justify spending that much money on it.

So if I can't, why do you think anyone who has non-fetish interest in this stuff would? We live in a gold mine of free superhero content right now. If i feel like watching a hot main stream super heroine black widow in the marvel films is right there. Also there are a ton of fan films on youtube or i can facebook cosplay chicks. It's out there and it's main stream and as a consumer I'd have to be a moron to spend 35.99 on a 20 minute superhero product I have ZERO sexual interest in when in about a month's time I can get Winter Soldier on blu ray for 15 bucks or I can take the 35 bucks and buy the ENTIRE SERIES of Wonder Woman at best buy. That's alot of fun mainstream peril and weeks of content for me to watch. And it features the greatest tv superheroine of all time.

So yeah Heroine legends people only buy your videos to wack off.

[Alex Bettinger]

Yes, fight videos where people request lots of stomach punches, or lots of face slapping, or this or that wrestling hold, or with this specific KO...these are not sex, and they ARE sexual. What proof do you have that they are not sexual?

Double Trouble Productions makes tons of combat-only videos. They are obvious sexual, fetish videos. Custom videos that people order because they have a fight fetish.

What proof do you have that the people who order your fight-only videos have no sexual interest in them? Like I said, we've got TONS of proof of the opposite.

[Mr. X]

I didn't say "no sex" in them. I said "not sexual". I am constantly asked for combat-only videos. That's what we do best. Some producers do softcore scenes. Some do bondage. We do fights. That's our niche.

And we do plenty of custom orders for non-fetish scenarios. Most films we do are customs.

We also do A LOT of fetish customs. I'm saying that both audiences exist. I don't know what else to tell you. They're real. Lol

And my question here is targeted at fetish viewers on a fetish forum. It has nothing to do with those other viewers.

Ok I am curious about what you call a custom that you think is not sexual and non-fetish? Like what exactly?

[CustomSuperheroines]

I'll chime in here:

I buy both mainstream and fetish superhero stuff there is no way in HELL i am going to spend 30-40 dollars on a superhero video that has no fetish element in it. And yes people do spend 30-50 dollars on superman or batman stuff but when i do so i get hours and hours of content. I am a huge batman fan but if the next Batman film came out and it was 50 dollars on blu-ray NO I would not buy it. Now if it was a box set with 3 or 4 films hell yes I would.

I am willing to ONLY pay a premium if it's stuff I'll never see in mainstream cinema. Wonder Woman will NEVER get kicked in the vag, beg for her life, then lie defeated under a bad guy's foot. it won't ever happen. So i'll pay to see that.

I am a huge fetish fan and i have bought videos from sleeperkid, alex, next global crisis all of them. I have never bought heroine legends videos. Why? They are way too expensive. And this is from a fan who's wanted to see Mortal Kombat style deaths SO I COULD JERK OFF TO THEM. And i still can't justify spending that much money on it.

So if I can't, why do you think anyone who has non-fetish interest in this stuff would? We live in a gold mine of free superhero content right now. If i feel like watching a hot main stream super heroine black widow in the marvel films is right there. Also there are a ton of fan films on youtube or i can facebook cosplay chicks. It's out there and it's main stream and as a consumer I'd have to be a moron to spend 35.99 on a 20 minute superhero product I have ZERO sexual interest in when in about a month's time I can get Winter Soldier on blu ray for 15 bucks or I can take the 35 bucks and buy the ENTIRE SERIES of Wonder Woman at best buy. That's alot of fun mainstream peril and weeks of content for me to watch. And it features the greatest tv superheroine of all time.

So yeah Heroine legends people only buy your videos to wack off.

Sorry, this isn't a debate of opinion. I know where my audience comes from. I read the emails. I film the customs. I talk to my fans. YOU buy those films to jerk off to. That's your business. Not everyone is like you.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I didn't say "no sex" in them. I said "not sexual". I am constantly asked for combat-only videos. That's what we do best. Some producers do softcore scenes. Some do bondage. We do fights. That's our niche.

And we do plenty of custom orders for non-fetish scenarios. Most films we do are customs.

We also do A LOT of fetish customs. I'm saying that both audiences exist. I don't know what else to tell you. They're real. Lol

And my question here is targeted at fetish viewers on a fetish forum. It has nothing to do with those other viewers.

Ok I am curious about what you call a custom that you think is not sexual and non-fetish? Like what exactly?

We've done custom orders where the only request was to see 2 specific actresses fight each other. The required elements were to use a knife and disarm the knife from her. That's it.

[Alex Bettinger]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

[robopope25]

I'll chime in here:

I buy both mainstream and fetish superhero stuff there is no way in HELL i am going to spend 30-40 dollars on a superhero video that has no fetish element in it. And yes people do spend 30-50 dollars on superman or batman stuff but when i do so i get hours and hours of content. I am a huge batman fan but if the next Batman film came out and it was 50 dollars on blu-ray NO I would not buy it. Now if it was a box set with 3 or 4 films hell yes I would.

I am willing to ONLY pay a premium if it's stuff I'll never see in mainstream cinema. Wonder Woman will NEVER get kicked in the vag, beg for her life, then lie defeated under a bad guy's foot. it won't ever happen. So i'll pay to see that.

I am a huge fetish fan and i have bought videos from sleeperkid, alex, next global crisis all of them. I have never bought heroine legends videos. Why? They are way too expensive. And this is from a fan who's wanted to see Mortal Kombat style deaths SO I COULD JERK OFF TO THEM. And i still can't justify spending that much money on it.

So if I can't, why do you think anyone who has non-fetish interest in this stuff would? We live in a gold mine of free superhero content right now. If i feel like watching a hot main stream super heroine black widow in the marvel films is right there. Also there are a ton of fan films on youtube or i can facebook cosplay chicks. It's out there and it's main stream and as a consumer I'd have to be a moron to spend 35.99 on a 20 minute superhero product I have ZERO sexual interest in when in about a month's time I can get Winter Soldier on blu ray for 15 bucks or I can take the 35 bucks and buy the ENTIRE SERIES of Wonder Woman at best buy. That's alot of fun mainstream peril and weeks of content for me to watch. And it features the greatest tv superheroine of all time.

So yeah Heroine legends people only buy your videos to wack off.

Sorry, this isn't a debate of opinion. I know where my audience comes from. I read the emails. I film the customs. I talk to my fans. YOU buy those films to jerk off to. That's your business. Not everyone is like you.

Then why aren't your videos ever promoted on non-fetish boards? The only time I ever see anyone talk about your videos it's on a board like this. Why isn't CBR or Newsrama covering you? You really think with all the marvel films out there on blu-ray for 6.99 or less people would rather spend 40 dollars to see your work that they have no sexual interest in?

[Alex Bettinger]

I've done a custom video where the only request was for a kung fu fight between Angela Sommers and Christie Stevens, with Angela wearing a specific leather jacket.

It was obviously, totally, completely a sexual fetish for the guy.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

Alex, I'm not going to forward emails to you. This is a place for fetish viewers. 99% of the viewers on this forum and others like it are here for sexual, fetish reasons.

The ones I speak with that pertain to this conversation on a daily basis are usually through email. There's no further debate. I don't care if you don't believe it. That doesn't change anything about our viewers, our business, or the product we offer.

It's a matter of one person needing proof to believe something that is being told exists. Who cares?

The point of this thread was to get a better understanding of certain fetishes. For those viewers. That doesn't pertain to the other viewer base in any way so how and why did we even get to talking about them? Rhetorical. Doesn't matter.

[robopope25]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

i got to a ton of regular superhero fan boards. why has he not tried to promote his stuff there? On tumblr there are alot of girl power fans that are women why not make videos for them? Or ask their opinion about what they want in a video? Why this board?

girl wonder.org is a board for feminist superhero fans. I think Heroine Legends should go there and ask them what THEY want.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I've done a custom video where the only request was for a kung fu fight between Angela Sommers and Christie Stevens, with Angela wearing a specific leather jacket.

It was obviously, totally, completely a sexual fetish for the guy.

Obviously the leather jacket did something for him. If you say a knife disarming is a fetish, then go for it. The point of the conversation is moot.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

i got to a ton of regular superhero fan boards. why has he not tried to promote his stuff there? On tumblr there are alot of girl power fans that are women why not make videos for them? Or ask their opinion about what they want in a video? Why this board?

girl wonder.org is a board for feminist superhero fans. I think Heroine Legends should go there and ask them what THEY want.

Thank you, I'll check them out. I do make girl power films as well.

[robopope25]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

i got to a ton of regular superhero fan boards. why has he not tried to promote his stuff there? On tumblr there are alot of girl power fans that are women why not make videos for them? Or ask their opinion about what they want in a video? Why this board?

girl wonder.org is a board for feminist superhero fans. I think Heroine Legends should go there and ask them what THEY want.

Thank you, I'll check them out. I do make girl power films as well.

Great. I'd love to see that thread. LOVE IT. I can't wait to see how you defend heroine kombat to those ladies. I hope you get a new fan base off there. Also post on the CBR message boards too. Let's really broaden your mainstream fan base.

[Alex Bettinger]

You're right--at this point the conversation has reached it's limit, since it seems clear to me that, if you're not just being deceitful (i.e., exaggerating just how many people buy your videos for non-sexual reasons), then you're probably just a little naïve.

I'm sure there are customers, as Imagineer very astutely observed earlier, that WANT to believe they buy these movies for non-sexual reasons. And I'm sure you, too, want to believe they do.

But until I actually see even a shred of evidence that such customers exist, I will, respectfully, say that your pants are on fire.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

i got to a ton of regular superhero fan boards. why has he not tried to promote his stuff there? On tumblr there are alot of girl power fans that are women why not make videos for them? Or ask their opinion about what they want in a video? Why this board?

girl wonder.org is a board for feminist superhero fans. I think Heroine Legends should go there and ask them what THEY want.

Thank you, I'll check them out. I do make girl power films as well.

Great. I'd love to see that thread. LOVE IT. I can't wait to see how you defend heroine kombat to those ladies. I hope you get a new fan base off there. Also post on the CBR message boards too. Let's really broaden your mainstream fan base.

Actually, I have a post up on CBR. I just totally forgot about that site. I'm on dozens of sites. Girl power, mainstream, fetish. Because PG videos have that type of versatility. Not sure why you're so angry about this lol

[CustomSuperheroines]

You're right--at this point the conversation has reached it's limit, since it seems clear to me that, if you're not just being deceitful (i.e., exaggerating just how many people buy your videos for non-sexual reasons), then you're probably just a little naïve.

I'm sure there are customers, as Imagineer very astutely observed earlier, that WANT to believe they buy these movies for non-sexual reasons. And I'm sure you, too, want to believe they do.

But until I actually see even a shred of evidence that such customers exist, I will, respectfully, say that your pants are on fire.

Well I suppose it is up to your opinion of this vs how it is. Which is right? Who knows. Who cares? We make films. They have girls in them. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. By the way, one of my best selling videos is Girl Power. She doesn't take a single hit. So it's not always about the girl being defeated. Just a random thought from a comment probably 60 posts ago lol

[robopope25]

Logan, where your audience comes from is irrelevant. That's a matter of pure logic.

You read emails--which say what? "I watch your videos just for the storylines...they're so good and exciting! I don't even care if there's any peril in it!"

You talk to your fans--where? Here? Show me where the fans are talking about your videos non-fetishistically. I really want to know. I will be happy to concede that there is in fact a "bulk" of fans who like these videos for purely non-sexual reasons. I just have seen no proof. You've offered none. You just keep saying, "Just take my word for it." But why should we, when the arguments you've provided so far are so obviously flawed, logically AND empirically?

i got to a ton of regular superhero fan boards. why has he not tried to promote his stuff there? On tumblr there are alot of girl power fans that are women why not make videos for them? Or ask their opinion about what they want in a video? Why this board?

girl wonder.org is a board for feminist superhero fans. I think Heroine Legends should go there and ask them what THEY want.

Thank you, I'll check them out. I do make girl power films as well.

Great. I'd love to see that thread. LOVE IT. I can't wait to see how you defend heroine kombat to those ladies. I hope you get a new fan base off there. Also post on the CBR message boards too. Let's really broaden your mainstream fan base.

Actually, I have a post up on CBR. I just totally forgot about that site. I'm on dozens of sites. Girl power, mainstream, fetish. Because PG videos have that type of versatility. Not sure why you're so angry about this lol

I'm not angry I just agree with Alex.

[Alex Bettinger]

By the way, one of my best selling videos is Girl Power. She doesn't take a single hit. So it's not always about the girl being defeated. Just a random thought from a comment probably 60 posts ago lol

Of course not. Girl Power is a completely different FETISH. Guys jerk off to that too. I make girl power videos. They sell very well on Clips4Sale.

[CustomSuperheroines]

By the way, one of my best selling videos is Girl Power. She doesn't take a single hit. So it's not always about the girl being defeated. Just a random thought from a comment probably 60 posts ago lol

Of course not. Girl Power is a completely different FETISH. Guys jerk off to that too. I make girl power videos. They sell very well on Clips4Sale.

Didn't say Girl Power wasn't a fetish. It most certainly is. I would argue that it may be more of a fetish than peril. But I don't feel like texting anymore. Plus I have to be up in 3 and a half hours to go to set to film 2 films. Are they sexual and perilous? Find out on the next episode of-- Jesus I'm tired. Well, Alex, it's been real. Thanks for the entertainment and chat and whatnot - take it easy.

[Alex Bettinger]

Have fun on your fetish porn set! OWN IT!

[CustomSuperheroines]

Have fun on your fetish porn set! OWN IT!

I'll have fun on my sexy Superheroine set. night

[Imagineer]

Seems like it's now about arguing to be right as opposed to examining anything. Alex, you understand non-sexual interests but think the only people interested in powerful women being violently beaten are deriving sexual pleasure from it. Then you think if someone did exist who was NON-sexually excited by it, that would be creepy. Okay, I get that's what you think and how you feel, and I've not said anything to give you pause to consider otherwise. Sorry about sending you all down a rabbit hole. I just find the connections between sex and power and violence and gender dynamics, and what does and doesn't make this or that acceptable, to be fascinating and murky and disturbing, including the reactions to these subjects here today. I've personally received some email reactions to fetish content that just seemed genially enthusiastic at first but over time freaked me right the fuck out... but I don't know if that was really them or my imagination. So, um, yeah.

[Heroine Addict]

Actually, I have a post up on CBR. I just totally forgot about that site. I'm on dozens of sites. Girl power, mainstream, fetish. Because PG videos have that type of versatility. Not sure why you're so angry about this lol

Well, you post pretty prolifically on here. 1811 posts (over 2 years, 6 months) suggests that this fetish-based board is quite important to you. I would be interested to see how many posts you have on non-fetish boards? If that really is your bread and butter business, it should be way, waaaaay more than 1811 for each one.

It would be easy enough to settle this. Just say which boards you promote your work on which are frequented by a largely non-fetish fanbase? Do you post on any of them nearly as much as you do here?

Without evidence that such an audience for your work exists, the fetish side of this discussion is up against a notional "silent majority" who allegedly have no sexual interest in the content.

[helstar]

Sorry guys but this is an unnecessary bashing towards Logan. There are producers like Next Global Crisis or Project Superwoman (both of which I imagine sell well)... and their videos are even more PG oriented than Heroine Legends. So how do you explain that ? What kind of audience do you think they have ? And NGC deus ex machina does not even write in any forum (just the heroinemovies.com website once in a while) !

Speaking about myself, I don't buy these videos because the heroine loses or is beaten up etc. I buy them to look at hot girls in sexy superheroine costumes fighting villains/villainesses (of course I prefer these) with their superpowers. If they win or lose (or if there are sexual overtones) it's irrelevant for me. If I see a video where the heroine enters a room and after 2 sec is already beaten up/chained/carried over etc. then that video does nothing for me (what superpower does she have ? The ability to end up in peril in 2 sec ? So it's no more a superheroine, but a normal girl in a costume...).

Am I part of a minority ? Probably. But I exist, and of course there are others like me for example I know a guy who buys videos ONLY if there are TF (transformations) from a secret ID (like the WW spinning) or muscle growth/expansion (like She Hulk) etc. !

Also let's not forget we are in the HYPNOTIC WORLD forum, a lot of the users here (including the admin i guess ...) like hypnosis and I guess also mental possession (both of which do zero for me ^^ but still !)

[Heroine Addict]

The issue that people have is that Logan presents no evidence for the existence of a widespread non-fetish appeal to a large mainstream customer base.

We're just supposed to accept that the fetish crowd discuss HL openly on forums while the mainstream crowd communicate almost exclusively through clandestine emails. Surely that's a bit topsy-turvy? Surely the mainstream customers should be far more proud and vocal than the guys who jack off to these videos?

The one big unanswered question is that if Heroine Legends is perceived by a bulk of its audience as fetish-free, why is the market for this stuff largely untapped by the mainstream? I suspect the answer is that companies such as Warner Bros and Disney wouldn't touch such obvious fetish material with a bargepole.

Edit: Removal of the majority/minority claim.

[Shakeshift]

Heroine Legends wrote...

Sorry, this isn't a debate of opinion. I know where my audience comes from. I read the emails. I film the customs. I talk to my fans. YOU buy those films to jerk off to. That's your business. Not everyone is like you.


That sound you hear? It's the rolling of my eyes.

[CustomSuperheroines]

The issue that people have is that Logan is marginalizing the fetish market as a minority of his customers. Yet he presents no evidence for the existence of a widespread non-fetish appeal to an overwhelmingly mainstream customer base.

We're just supposed to accept that the "minority" fetish crowd discuss HL openly on forums while the "majority" mainstream crowd communicate almost exclusively through clandestine emails. Surely that's a bit topsy-turvy? Surely the mainstream customers should be far more proud and vocal than the guys who jack off to these videos?

The one big unanswered question is that if Heroine Legends is perceived by the majority of its audience as fetish-free, why is the market for this stuff largely untapped by the mainstream? I suspect the answer is that companies such as Warner Bros and Disney wouldn't touch such obvious fetish material with a bargepole.

If you read ALL of my posts, I've clearly stated that the majority are fetish fans. The only thing I've said beyond that is that I do have a large portion of fans who watch for other reasons. And this is a matter of presentation and perception.

Also, different types of viewers are communicated with in different ways. There is no forum dedicated to some of the viewer types I have. Most stumbled across my site in one way or another and communicate with me via email.

[Heroine Addict]

If you read ALL of my posts, I've clearly stated that the majority are fetish fans. The only thing I've said beyond that is that I do have a large portion of fans who watch for other reasons. And this is a matter of presentation and perception.

Also, different types of viewers are communicated with in different ways. There is no forum dedicated to some of the viewer types I have. Most stumbled across my site in one way or another and communicate with me via email.

Apologies for misrepresenting your position.

The question stands, though; if Heroine Legends is perceived by a bulk of its audience as fetish-free, why is the market for this stuff largely untapped by the mainstream?

[CustomSuperheroines]

If you read ALL of my posts, I've clearly stated that the majority are fetish fans. The only thing I've said beyond that is that I do have a large portion of fans who watch for other reasons. And this is a matter of presentation and perception.

Also, different types of viewers are communicated with in different ways. There is no forum dedicated to some of the viewer types I have. Most stumbled across my site in one way or another and communicate with me via email.

Apologies for misrepresenting your position.

The question stands, though; if Heroine Legends is perceived by a bulk of its audience as fetish-free, why is the market for this stuff largely untapped by the mainstream?

lol why so you keep saying "bulk" or "majority"? I literally just said the majority of viewers are fetish-based. My last post. Literally.

[Heroine Addict]

If you read ALL of my posts, I've clearly stated that the majority are fetish fans. The only thing I've said beyond that is that I do have a large portion of fans who watch for other reasons. And this is a matter of presentation and perception.

Also, different types of viewers are communicated with in different ways. There is no forum dedicated to some of the viewer types I have. Most stumbled across my site in one way or another and communicate with me via email.

Apologies for misrepresenting your position.

The question stands, though; if Heroine Legends is perceived by a bulk of its audience as fetish-free, why is the market for this stuff largely untapped by the mainstream?

lol why so you keep saying "bulk" or "majority"? I literally just said the majority of viewers are fetish-based. My last post. Literally.

You used the word bulk to describe viewers who are not in the majority. Yet when I use it, it suddenly becomes a synonym for majority?

I agree there. And If just hot babes sold vids then sites like Super Sexy Heroines or Adara Steel would be very profitable. Other vendors wouldn't be resorting to nudity/sex etc. Now I have seen some girls I just had to buy the video for cause they were hot BUT that's really rare.

I agree that there's a sexual kink reason to buy these vids. My point was even if there are a few people out there not interested in sexual kink but just want hot girls and winning villains there is no way they would be enough to fund the number of videos they make with the models they use AND the editing they do. Its kink.

I never said the ones who purchase for the sake of seeing hot superheroines were the majority. They're not. But a bulk of our viewers are in that category. Perhaps it's just hard to envision that since this board is where most of the talk happens-- and it's all about defeated women and the such. But that's clearly just perception.

A Superheroine getting a fetish beatdown or a Superheroine in a fight way over her head? Depends on how you WANT to look at it. Some of it depends on the way it is filmed and the content, surely. But MOST of it is interpretation of the viewer.

See?

Plus you still dodge the question of why HL's market remains untapped by the mainstream?

[CustomSuperheroines]

If you read ALL of my posts, I've clearly stated that the majority are fetish fans. The only thing I've said beyond that is that I do have a large portion of fans who watch for other reasons. And this is a matter of presentation and perception.

Also, different types of viewers are communicated with in different ways. There is no forum dedicated to some of the viewer types I have. Most stumbled across my site in one way or another and communicate with me via email.

Apologies for misrepresenting your position.

The question stands, though; if Heroine Legends is perceived by a bulk of its audience as fetish-free, why is the market for this stuff largely untapped by the mainstream?

lol why so you keep saying "bulk" or "majority"? I literally just said the majority of viewers are fetish-based. My last post. Literally.

You used the word bulk to describe viewers who are not in the majority. Yet when I use it, it suddenly becomes a synonym for majority?

I agree there. And If just hot babes sold vids then sites like Super Sexy Heroines or Adara Steel would be very profitable. Other vendors wouldn't be resorting to nudity/sex etc. Now I have seen some girls I just had to buy the video for cause they were hot BUT that's really rare.

I agree that there's a sexual kink reason to buy these vids. My point was even if there are a few people out there not interested in sexual kink but just want hot girls and winning villains there is no way they would be enough to fund the number of videos they make with the models they use AND the editing they do. Its kink.

I never said the ones who purchase for the sake of seeing hot superheroines were the majority. They're not. But a bulk of our viewers are in that category. Perhaps it's just hard to envision that since this board is where most of the talk happens-- and it's all about defeated women and the such. But that's clearly just perception.

A Superheroine getting a fetish beatdown or a Superheroine in a fight way over her head? Depends on how you WANT to look at it. Some of it depends on the way it is filmed and the content, surely. But MOST of it is interpretation of the viewer.

See?

Plus you still dodge the question of why HL's market remains untapped by the mainstream?

"A bulk" and "THE bulk" are not the same thing. And I have a lot of mainstream viewers. I wouldn't be where I am without mainstream viewers. This is a moot discussion. It's being had on a fetish board which is clearly bias by some of it's viewers. You want to see my mainstream appeal? How about the hundreds of cast and crew I employ who view the project differently than you? It's fetish to you because you have the fetish. It's risqué in the mainstream film industry because we relate it to things we see in mainstream content. It's the same project by 2 opposing perceptions. That's all it is.

[Heroine Addict]

"A bulk" and "THE bulk" are not the same thing.

Which is exactly why I said "A bulk" and not "THE bulk".

And I have a lot of mainstream viewers. I wouldn't be where I am without mainstream viewers. This is a moot discussion. It's being had on a fetish board which is clearly bias by some of it's viewers. You want to see my mainstream appeal? How about the hundreds of cast and crew I employ who view the project differently than you? It's fetish to you because you have the fetish. It's risqué in the mainstream film industry because we relate it to things we see in mainstream content. It's the same project by 2 opposing perceptions. That's all it is.

I really don't want to badger, but the question of mainstream mass production stands. Why hasn't a major studio noticed the mainstream demand for superheroine peril videos at $30+ and decided to cater to that market?

If this stuff could be disassociated from the fetish label, Disney and Warner Bros would be all over it in a flash. They could afford to make and sell comparable videos for a fraction of the prices charged by independent producers.

[tommy84]

That derailed quickly...

Everything around this board is a fetish, otherwise we'd rent these movies on iTunes for 2.99 in 1080p or buy the exceptionally good ones for 11.99. But we're spending between 25 and 40 dollars to own a movie - some even spend hundreds and thousands to get a custom done. Now tell me what's mainstream about that?

For me personally it's part of the fetish of cat fighting and all the sub-fetishes like low-blows, bellypunching, titpunching etc. What I like about the Superheroine genre is the huge variety of sexy outfits and the effort most producers put into their videos compared to the catfighting/wrestling oriented producers. Of course, the peril and suffering plays a huge part as well. I instantly think about Spectre or Redwing 2 - that's something you barely see at dtwrestling

[CustomSuperheroines]

This isn't a matter of mass appeal. This is a matter of whether these are clearly fetish videos. THAT is a matter of perception from the person buying the film. If this was MASS appeal, the videos would be cheaper. But again, every producer is producing something different. Some content can ONLY be seen as fetish - because that was the intention from the start: to make a fetish film. Other content can be perceived in various ways - maybe not to someone who already views content as fetish, but as an outsider looking in.

Our PG offerings are not viewed as fetish by our actors. They know you exist. They read these boards. They know the films are purchased by guys who whack off to them. We talk about it all the time on set. My editors read all of your comments and we talk about how to better cater to you. But for our actors, no matter how much they include content you want to see, to them, these are strictly Cinemax-style Superheroine films. Nothing more. Because it is a matter of perception. Some of you say it's denial. I honestly don't care what you feel you want to call it. I don't understand the debate here. We don't care if the viewer perceives it as fetish-- we sell to that market. We are clearly a part of that whole cycle. But the intention of the films are not to be fetish.

Defeated Heroines, on the other hand, IS fetish. 100%. And you can see that in the performances and content. I make those, even when framing shots, to be "whack-off material".

So whether you want to categorize it or not, it doesn't matter. There IS mainstream appeal to Superheroine Peril content. I am creating several mainstream versions of this content. There is a whole other thread about it. And pointless negative talk there too. We enjoy making these films and that's really all that matters to us-- and that our fans enjoy them too. Some people will never buy any of my films-- they either don't like me (for whatever reason) or the content isn't for them-- whatever the reason, it's not important. Those are not the people I film for. The loyal and amazing fans I have are who I film for. Fetish. Mainstream. Doesn't matter the slightest.

This thread started as a means to understand certain elements to better film them. It turned into an attack to protect your fetish. No one is attacking your fetish. But to say that a fetish for one person is a fetish for another is clearly inaccurate and naive. I find spanking funny. Others get turned on by it. The fact that we include it in a film doesn't make it a fetish - it just means that someone with the fetish will find it appealing.

[viking]

You're right--at this point the conversation has reached it's limit, since it seems clear to me that, if you're not just being deceitful (i.e., exaggerating just how many people buy your videos for non-sexual reasons), then you're probably just a little naïve.

I'm sure there are customers, as Imagineer very astutely observed earlier, that WANT to believe they buy these movies for non-sexual reasons. And I'm sure you, too, want to believe they do.

But until I actually see even a shred of evidence that such customers exist, I will, respectfully, say that your pants are on fire.

Well I suppose it is up to your opinion of this vs how it is. Which is right? Who knows. Who cares? We make films. They have girls in them. Sometimes they win, sometimes they lose. By the way, one of my best selling videos is Girl Power. She doesn't take a single hit. So it's not always about the girl being defeated. Just a random thought from a comment probably 60 posts ago lol

But the girls are always very attractive and wearing sexy outfits.

[Heroine Addict]

I hate to badger you, but the question I keep asking and you keep avoiding is why don't superheroine peril videos such as the HL series have mass appeal? If there's a gap in the mainstream market for this stuff, why aren't the big studios filling it? Don't they want to make money?

The most likely answer is that the industry regards this stuff as fetish and that's why the major studios won't touch it with a bargepole. Your cast and crew can perceive it any way they want, but the fact remains that anyone researching Heroine Legends will see the series promoted and discussed almost exclusively on this forum and HeroineMovies.com, alongside superheroine videos with varying degrees of pornographic content.

[Alex Bettinger]

Here's an analogy that I think makes things very clear.

Imagine a filmmaker who makes movies about women's feet. They consist of nothing but long lingering shots of beautiful women and their feet, putting on and taking off shoes, panty hose, socks, stepping on things, etc etc. Virtually no story, just shot after shot of feet.

Also, this filmmaker frequently goes to foot fetish message boards and asks the foot fetish fans what they want to see, and then, after they tell him, he puts those exact things into his movies.

He even lets foot fetish fans SCRIPT his movies, and lets them pay to have their personal foot fetish ideas put into his movies.

He then sells his movies for a much higher price than your average Hollywood blockbuster. And the overwhelming majority of people who buy his movies are foot fetishists who jerk off to them. Perhaps a few sales are made to the curious, or to those with passing fancies about what this type of film is all about, but really virtually no one who does not have a sexual interest in feet ever buys more than one of his movies. He makes the overwhelming majority of his living selling customs and videos to people with sexual foot fetishes.

If that filmmaker were then to turn around and say, "My movies are not foot fetish movies! They are just films about feet! There's nothing sexual about them!" then we would probably all LAUGH at the filmmaker for being delusional. And indeed some of the foot fetish fans might be a little ticked off that he seems so eager to distance himself from the very fans whose ideas he solicits and who buy his product and who keep him in business.

It's kinda like that here, dontcha think?

[CustomSuperheroines]

I hate to badger you, but the question I keep asking and you keep avoiding is why don't superheroine peril videos such as the HL series have mass appeal? If there's a gap in the mainstream market for this stuff, why aren't the big studios filling it? Don't they want to make money?

The most likely answer is that the industry regards this stuff as fetish and that's why the major studios won't touch it with a bargepole. Your cast and crew can perceive it any way they want, but the fact remains that anyone Googling for Heroine Legends will see the series promoted and discussed almost exclusively on this forum and HeroineMovies.com, alongside superheroine videos with varying degrees of pornographic content.

I disagree. I believe the studios just like to play things safe. They are afraid of public outcry. That is why every heroine is dressed in a full-on catsuit with no sexual appeal. The fear of backlash from feminist activists.

I don't share that same philosophy. I will create Superheroines in Peril films and mix it with mainstream platforms. I can't answer definitively to why it's not there - but that is my opinion. We can debate that all we want, but that's what I think.

I will begin introducing it soon. Just give it some time.

[Heroine Addict]

I disagree. I believe the studios just like to play things safe. They are afraid of public outcry. That is why every heroine is dressed in a full-on catsuit with no sexual appeal. The fear of backlash from feminist activists.

But wouldn't that potential public outcry be due to feminists claiming that sections of the male audience are sexually aroused by scantily-clad girls in perilous situations? (And, to be fair, the wasp-chewing bulldogs would be right about that.) So, in effect, it's a fear of the fetish label.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I disagree. I believe the studios just like to play things safe. They are afraid of public outcry. That is why every heroine is dressed in a full-on catsuit with no sexual appeal. The fear of backlash from feminist activists.

But wouldn't that potential public outcry be due to feminists claiming that sections of the male audience are sexually aroused by scantily-clad girls in perilous situations? (And, to be fair, the wasp-chewing bulldogs would be right about that.) So, in effect, it's a fear of the fetish label.

No. The fetish label has nothing to do with it. Stop trying to make it about the fetish-- it's not. The feminist outcry has to do with the scenario of not empowering women and PARTLY due to their objectification sexually-- not because of fetish, simply because of the objectification.

Fetish refers to the need of a specific sexual element that "is psychologically necessary for sexual gratification and that is an object of fixation to the extent that it may interfere with complete sexual expression". That means you need it to be turned on.

This has nothing to do with anyone's fetish. Simply taking what some people perceive as a fetish and introducing those qualities into mainstream works-- which is not uncommon. It's simply based on THIS fetish in particular-- which to some, isn't a fetish at all. Because a fetish is psychologically based. You may share the same fetishes as someone else, but to another, there is no implication of a fetish whatsoever.

It's really a simple concept.

[Alex Bettinger]

The definition of "fetish" you cited is obviously not the way we're using the word here. That's a clinical definition and has only marginally to do with this industry.

"Fetish" as it's loosely used here, simply means a sexual interest in something that isn't really sex. Whether it's an obsession with feet, or a keen interest in spanking, or a love of seeing superheroines punched in the stomach or knocked unconscious or tied up. That's all a fetish is.

Thus, if a guy makes movies about women's feet, and goes to foot fetish message boards to find out what foot fetishists want to see, and puts their requests in his movies, and lets them script his movies sometimes, and sells the overwhelming majority of his movies to those foot fetishists...then it makes no difference what his "perception" is. He's making foot fetish movies. Plain and simple.

[CustomSuperheroines]

The definition of "fetish" you cited is obviously not the way we're using the word here. That's a clinical definition and has only marginally to do with this industry.

"Fetish" as it's loosely used here, simply means a sexual interest in something that isn't really sex. Whether it's an obsession with feet, or a keen interest in spanking, or a love of seeing superheroines punched in the stomach or knocked unconscious or tied up. That's all a fetish is.

Thus, if a guy makes movies about women's feet, and goes to foot fetish message boards to find out what foot fetishists want to see, and puts their requests in his movies, and lets them script his movies sometimes, and sells the overwhelming majority of his movies to those foot fetishists...then it makes no difference what his "perception" is. He's making foot fetish movies. Plain and simple.

I can't speak loosely. I have to speak in terms of what the English language has cited - otherwise, there's no uniformity to the language. Fetish is what it is - and that is how I refer to it. Just like on this board where people say PG when it's really R-rated and R when it's really X-rated.

Your 2nd paragraph is absolutely correct. If that is how he filmed and intended it. But I don't film that way. I film mainstream content and combine it with fetish elements to create films that can be viewed as both. Watch any of my films and that is apparent. That is all I am saying-- the fetish is absolutely a perception in the case of the films I create.

[Heroine Addict]

I can't speak loosely. I have to speak in terms of what the English language has cited - otherwise, there's no uniformity to the language. Fetish is what it is - and that is how I refer to it. Just like on this board where people say PG when it's really R-rated and R when it's really X-rated.

So you're using a single definition of the word from merriam-webster.com? Nobody on here uses "fetish" so restrictively.

I doubt many of the people who enjoy SH Peril actually need to see a girl in peril in order to be turned on sexually. If that were the case, we would be a bunch of psychopaths and rapists.

[Alex Bettinger]

Nope. Everything you said in that last post is obviously false. From the first proposition to the last.

As human beings we ALWAYS speak loosely, use colloquialisms, and so forth. Hiding behind a dictionary definition is silly.

Your interpretation of my analogy is false. This filmmaker INSISTS that he did NOT intend to make a foot fetish video. BUT, he DID go to foot fetish message boards, and shoot what they wanted to see, and advertised and sold his product overwhelmingly to foot fetishists. He let foot fetishists script part or all of his movies. If that filmmaker turns around and tries to insist that his movie is not a foot fetish movie, then we'd laugh at him. Because that would be delusional.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Perception, Alex. That is all I will say. And yes, the dictionary is a good place to refer to when a term is used. I don't use terms loosely like that - it creates misunderstanding and avoidable arguments. There is no debate here. For you, it's a fetish (as you loosely use the word), for others, it is not. End of story.

[Alex Bettinger]

Nope, not perception. The filmmaker in my analogy is making foot fetish videos whether he "perceives" it or not. And anyone who says he isn't is either lying or has such a solipsistic, narrow view of reality (i.e., what you "perceive" the film to be is what it is for you) that they shouldn't be taken seriously on any of these topics at all.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Nope, not perception. The filmmaker in my analogy is making foot fetish videos whether he "perceives" it or not. And anyone who says he isn't is either lying or has such a solipsistic, narrow view of reality (i.e., what you "perceive" the film to be is what it is for you) that they shouldn't be taken seriously on any of these topics at all.

Lol whatever you say. The perception is from the viewer. Go ahead and label things as you will. You may think a Maserati is an expensive car. Bill Gates may not. It is your perception that the car is expensive or not justified I purchase. Not the car manufacturer. And it differs from another buyer.

[Alex Bettinger]

Yes, but anyone who says it's NOT A CAR is delusional. You seem to be insisting it's not a car.

[Alex Bettinger]

Or rather, to make the analogy even more precise--if the people at Maserati sold the car to car enthusiasts, advertised it in car magazines, tried to win car awards for it, and THEN turned around and insisted, IT'S NOT A CAR, then no one would take them seriously.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Yes, but anyone who says it's NOT A CAR is delusional. You seem to be insisting it's not a car.

Way to twist it incorrectly. It's a film. It being fetish is the perception.