ATTENTION! THIS QUESTION IS DIRECTED AT EVERYONE. (MOSTLY PRODUCERS)

9 years ago

This is directed towards everyone..but, mostly directed at Producers and Fan Film makers:

How many of you guys have dealt people who have stole your videos claiming it was theirs, and have dealt with people who have reposted your video or videos (whether its non-profit or profit) on YouTube, Vimeo, & Dailymotion without your permission. What did you do about it? The reason I'm asking is because I'm dealing with a situation that a vimeo channel that reviews fan films, reposted my entire fan film video on their channel without my permission. if you have watched all 4 of my fan films..before each film begins, their is a disclaimer and in that disclaimer, its say "Do not re-post this film anywhere". unfortunately, they didn't get the message

Now, My question is what should I do? Should I message them and tell them to take down my video off their channel or should I file a DMCA copyright claim/takedown notice. i know I don't own the "Supergirl" Character...but, it is my parody fan film I created. What should I do? This is the first time this has happened to me, that's why I ask..what should I do?

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avenger · 9 years ago

Just my opinion, but unless you own the copyright to the character and /or likeness, I wouldn't push the issue man, especially since you're not exactly making or losing money off it, as you said it was a non-profit fan film that can be found on YouTube anyway. If anything, be happy that it's getting attention and favorable reviews, hopefully

9 years ago

avenger wrote:Just my opinion, but unless you own the copyright to the character and /or likeness, I wouldn't push the issue man, especially since you're not exactly making or losing money off it, as you said it was a non-profit fan film that can be found on YouTube anyway. If anything, be happy that it's getting attention and favorable reviews, hopefully

good point, but...If it was small bits of clips from the film..i wouldn't complain about it and it would be ok, If they shared the link, it would be ok too. But, The problem is that they uploaded/posted the entire fan film on their vimeo channel without my permission and they bashed it and added commentary to it which was fair to say wasn't respectful towards the actresses at all.

What should I do?

9 years ago

jimbobklyn5 wrote:
avenger wrote:Just my opinion, but unless you own the copyright to the character and /or likeness, I wouldn't push the issue man, especially since you're not exactly making or losing money off it, as you said it was a non-profit fan film that can be found on YouTube anyway. If anything, be happy that it's getting attention and favorable reviews, hopefully
good point, but...If it was small bits of clips from the film..i wouldn't complain about it and it would be ok, The problem is that they posted the entire fan film on their vimeo channel without my permission and they bashed it and added commentary to it which was fair to say wasn't respectful at all.

Unfortunately its the nature of the beast.
We have had our movies dissected and made fun of, and have had our movies dissected to make tribute films of.
If you have no finical skin in the game then you have more wiggle room than a producer who is making money from non-liscenced characters but again its grey area as to what they can do via retribution.
If its a group mocking your movie then there is little to be done, it sounds like you are more pissed that they didn't like it and descicrated it.

Mr. X · 9 years ago

Well you can contact the hosting site and have it removed. My stuff gets pirated all the time.

1. Contact the host site like rapidshare etc and file a complaint to remove it.
2. Make SURE your copyright and site name is on the material or your really can't prove its yours.
3. Work with the piracy. Again make sure a url is on the material so if its stolen at least its free advertising.
4. You cannot convert pirates to sales. If you could they would not steal. All you can do is shut down the file share URLs and remove them from Dailymotion etc.
5. Sadly there are people who take free stuff and put it in their pay area as material for their sites. Again all you can do is contact them for removal and threaten to contact their ISP.

Note if you have something for free on the internet its gonna get passed around. I make a certain amount of free stuff so it will get passed around for advertising. The trouble is since you give the video away for free its hard to complain when its shown for free. Now if they charge money that's a nother issue.

9 years ago

KnightsofGotham.com wrote:
jimbobklyn5 wrote:
avenger wrote:Just my opinion, but unless you own the copyright to the character and /or likeness, I wouldn't push the issue man, especially since you're not exactly making or losing money off it, as you said it was a non-profit fan film that can be found on YouTube anyway. If anything, be happy that it's getting attention and favorable reviews, hopefully
good point, but...If it was small bits of clips from the film..i wouldn't complain about it and it would be ok, The problem is that they posted the entire fan film on their vimeo channel without my permission and they bashed it and added commentary to it which was fair to say wasn't respectful at all.
Unfortunately its the nature of the beast.
We have had our movies dissected and made fun of, and have had our movies dissected to make tribute films of.
If you have no finical skin in the game then you have more wiggle room than a producer who is making money from non-liscenced characters but again its grey area as to what they can do via retribution.
If its a group mocking your movie then there is little to be done, it sounds like you are more pissed that they didn't like it and descicrated it.

Well, K.O.G....i don't mind the fact that there mocking the movie. you are right i have no control over that...but, the two things that have me ticked is the way they talked about the actresses in a disgusting manner and that fact that they posted the entire film on their channel without my permission. yes, it is a free youtube fan film..but there is a disclaimer that says before each film that says.."Do Not repost anywhere else". Now, granted, opinions/reviews for this fan film series can go either way, it doesn't bother me because films get criticized everyday. Whether its negative or positive. luckily for me, its been mostly positive. That's the way it is in this field and you are right that its a grey area but i don't appreciate that fact that they go way below the belt on the actresses to the point of respectfulness. Whether they like the film or not.

9 years ago

Mr. X wrote:Well you can contact the hosting site and have it removed. My stuff gets pirated all the time.

1. Contact the host site like rapidshare etc and file a complaint to remove it.
2. Make SURE your copyright and site name is on the material or your really can't prove its yours.
3. Work with the piracy. Again make sure a url is on the material so if its stolen at least its free advertising.
4. You cannot convert pirates to sales. If you could they would not steal. All you can do is shut down the file share URLs and remove them from Dailymotion etc.
5. Sadly there are people who take free stuff and put it in their pay area as material for their sites. Again all you can do is contact them for removal and threaten to contact their ISP.

Note if you have something for free on the internet its gonna get passed around. I make a certain amount of free stuff so it will get passed around for advertising. The trouble is since you give the video away for free its hard to complain when its shown for free. Now if they charge money that's a nother issue.

Very good suggestions and points, Mr. X. Lucky for me...my production name and my name is on the video. Now, Me and one of my writers have already tried to contact them earlier this week via vimeo which is were the video was posted and ask them to take down the video off their channel. Instead they deleted the comments and kept the video up. We tried again today and told them to remove the video. yet no response..so me and one of my writers have just filed a DMCA takedown notice under my production company name of "Jimbo-FailExchange Productions" which is clearly shown in the beginning and ending of the video. Trust me, I didn't want to, but they left me no choice. Also, what make this worst is the fact that in the video...they stated that they were going to post up the other 3 films on their channel in the coming weeks too. But, with us filing a claim..that most likely won't occur. Again, i know that the fan films are for free, but Just because it's on YouTube for free doesn't automatically gives a person the right to take it and upload it someplace else. they should respect the creators wishes and not repost the video anywhere else. I know its a grey area and a grey subject...but, This is just my view/opinion because this is the first time I've had to deal with something like this.

FYI, they have reposted other peoples fan films on their vimeo channel too. A mix of Profit and Non-profit films.

9 years ago

Send the notice...
You work very hard and put a lot of money into your videos and clips, why should they have the right to post it for free?
My content os all over the place, and I am finally hiring someone to send notices for me. I'm busy making more great content for my amazing fans.
Some people are very selfish and do not realize that this is how we make our money...what if we came to their place of work and stole there job from them...maybe half...and made them still work...but get paid way less?! That's what they are doing to us. That's pretty freaking douchey if you ask me.

I'm just saying..
XO
Christina

Mr. X · 9 years ago

And watch out. Some of the file share places like rapidshare are dicks. They want everything perfectly dotted and crossed and they play stupid as much as possible. I have to spend a day out of my week just doing take down notices.

9 years ago

Mr. X wrote:And watch out. Some of the file share places like rapidshare are dicks. They want everything perfectly dotted and crossed and they play stupid as much as possible. I have to spend a day out of my week just doing take down notices.

that is true...but I'm dealing with a vimeo user in this case and I hope I don't have to go through issues with people who post on those file share places in the future. Now, the fact that not only did I file the DMCA takedown notice, but now both of my partners/writers of the series filed it too under our production company name. So that should get the wheels rolling more. But for us..filing the take down notice on vimeo was easy.

9 years ago

Christina Carter wrote:Send the notice...
You work very hard and put a lot of money into your videos and clips, why should they have the right to post it for free?
My content os all over the place, and I am finally hiring someone to send notices for me. I'm busy making more great content for my amazing fans.
Some people are very selfish and do not realize that this is how we make our money...what if we came to their place of work and stole there job from them...maybe half...and made them still work...but get paid way less?! That's what they are doing to us. That's pretty freaking douchey if you ask me.

I'm just saying..
XO
Christina

I totally agree with you, Christina. It takes us a long time to put these films & everything together..especially the funds (money). that's why we try to get the films funded via crowdfunding campaign and when we don't reach our goal..we fund the films out of our pockets which is a hard & slow process (especially for me since I'm unemployed) the money i put in is from freelancing and lately, that's been mighty slow. Anyway, the fact that they discarded my wishes and ignored/deleted my comments for me requesting that they take down my video from their channel really cause me to send the notice. i don't care if they are reviewing the film. if they wanted to review the film...they could used a small clips or screenshots/photos of the film, but to post the whole film, that doesn't make sense at all.

Mr. X · 9 years ago

jimbobklyn5 wrote:
Mr. X wrote:And watch out. Some of the file share places like rapidshare are dicks. They want everything perfectly dotted and crossed and they play stupid as much as possible. I have to spend a day out of my week just doing take down notices.
that is true...but I'm dealing with a vimeo user in this case and I hope I don't have to go through issues with people who post on those file share places in the future. Now, the fact that not only did I file the DMCA takedown notice, but now both of my partners/writers of the series filed it too under our production company name. So that should get the wheels rolling more. But for us..filing the take down notice on vimeo was easy.

Don't go through the user. Just go right to Vimeo with a DMCA.

Heck I just had to file like 8 DMCA's just now for rapidshare and another service.

9 years ago

Mr. X wrote:
jimbobklyn5 wrote:
Mr. X wrote:And watch out. Some of the file share places like rapidshare are dicks. They want everything perfectly dotted and crossed and they play stupid as much as possible. I have to spend a day out of my week just doing take down notices.
that is true...but I'm dealing with a vimeo user in this case and I hope I don't have to go through issues with people who post on those file share places in the future. Now, the fact that not only did I file the DMCA takedown notice, but now both of my partners/writers of the series filed it too under our production company name. So that should get the wheels rolling more. But for us..filing the take down notice on vimeo was easy.
Don't go through the user. Just go right to Vimeo with a DMCA.

Heck I just had to file like 8 DMCA's just now for rapidshare and another service.

Well, me and my 2 partners/writers did file a DMCA at Vimeo, tonight.

swampy170 · 9 years ago

Yea, a DMCA is a silly thing to do if they've reposted a non-profit fan film!!

You should have asked them to credit you! Now you've gone and lost exposure - of key importance if you like to crowdfund things.............

Obviously hasn't gone viral on your platform, why kick up such a fuss if someone with a larger userbase reposts it?!?!

Not just looking a gift horse in the mouth, but kicking it in the face

9 years ago

swampy170 wrote:Yea, a DMCA is a silly thing to do if they've reposted a non-profit fan film!!

You should have asked them to credit you! Now you've gone and lost exposure - of key importance if you like to crowdfund things.............

Obviously hasn't gone viral on your platform, why kick up such a fuss if someone with a larger userbase reposts it?!?!

Not just looking a gift horse in the mouth, but kicking it in the face

this has been my experience. not to mention how petty some people can be when they get pissed off and decide that a vendetta is in order.
And by that I mean that if they get in trouble with Vimeo for doing what they did they can decide to make your life miserable and set out against you.

9 years ago

swampy170 wrote:Yea, a DMCA is a silly thing to do if they've reposted a non-profit fan film!!

You should have asked them to credit you! Now you've gone and lost exposure - of key importance if you like to crowdfund things.............

Obviously hasn't gone viral on your platform, why kick up such a fuss if someone with a larger userbase reposts it?!?!

Not just looking a gift horse in the mouth, but kicking it in the face

Um, first of all they reuploaded the entire film and bashed it from top to bottom, not to mention added commentary to it which was inappropriate. i said this before, I don't mind that they bashed it, if they didn't like it, that's ok, that's their point of view. If they would of used some clips and made a 5 minute video, then that would be ok...but they posted the whole film which is not ok and said some inappropriate comments during the film on the actresses which I find unfair and disgusting. And they did not credit me for the film at all either which was also another main reason why we filed the DMCA. The installment did go viral on YouTube and it has been a success on YouTube and YouTube is a much more larger userbase then Vimeo. The video they reuploaded on their Vimeo channel has only gotten 56 views in a week, while the video on my YouTube channel has over 22,000 views and still counting.

The Series has not lost exposure. The Series has gained more exposure, thanks to this forum and other forums, YouTube, Facebook, Dailymotion and deviantart.com.

I'm not kicking a gift horse in the face or mouth. I'm protecting my work. Like I said, this is the first time this has happen and hopefully will be the last time.

So, i happen to disagree with you, its not a silly thing to file a DMCA if a person reposted/reuploaded a non-profit fan film. Especially when they posted without permission and didn't credit me.

9 years ago

KnightsofGotham.com wrote:
swampy170 wrote:Yea, a DMCA is a silly thing to do if they've reposted a non-profit fan film!!

You should have asked them to credit you! Now you've gone and lost exposure - of key importance if you like to crowdfund things.............

Obviously hasn't gone viral on your platform, why kick up such a fuss if someone with a larger userbase reposts it?!?!

Not just looking a gift horse in the mouth, but kicking it in the face
this has been my experience. not to mention how petty some people can be when they get pissed off and decide that a vendetta is in order.
And by that I mean that if they get in trouble with Vimeo for doing what they did they can decide to make your life miserable and set out against you.

Understandable your position on this topic, due to your experience. It took a lot of time and cost me a lot of money (both our own and crowdfunding) to put this fan film series together (despite it being a low budget fan film series) and I'm trying to protect my work. You are right, they may want to do that. And that is petty and just plain wrong. But like I said before, They reuploaded my entire video without my permission and didn't credit me. If it was just 5 minute of different clips/screenshots, then I would be ok with it and let it slide, but its the entire film they put up, that's the issue.

I just want to make it clear that I'm not bothered by their review of the film. the opinions and reviews of this fan film can go either way. A lot of people like it. A some of people hate it and some find it weird. I Can't change a person's opinion.

avenger · 9 years ago

Adding on to what swampy170 said and what I touched on above, you're upset about a non-profit fan film parody being put out on a site and reviewed. Not to diminish the stress, time, money and effort you and the actresses put into it, but it was your decision to ultimately make it a free movie for the fans and I can't see the logic in being upset about it. You're actually getting free exposure if nothing else, and you have to take the bad comments with the bad. I don't know what was said about the actress, but let it go, man.....the fans who support you will support you again, but I don't think it's worth your fight to complain, because who's to say they don't turn around and report you to DC for using the name Supergirl in your product that you put your name on? You sound more offended that they made comments about the actress and her acting, but let's face it, it's the nature of the beast and not everyone will be pleased. If you keep pushing, eventually they'll push back harder.

9 years ago

avenger wrote:Adding on to what swampy170 said and what I touched on above, you're upset about a non-profit fan film parody being put out on a site and reviewed. Not to diminish the stress, time, money and effort you and the actresses put into it, but it was your decision to ultimately make it a free movie for the fans and I can't see the logic in being upset about it. You're actually getting free exposure if nothing else, and you have to take the bad comments with the bad. I don't know what was said about the actress, but let it go, man.....the fans who support you will support you again, but I don't think it's worth your fight to complain, because who's to say they don't turn around and report you to DC for using the name Supergirl in your product that you put your name on? You sound more offended that they made comments about the actress and her acting, but let's face it, it's the nature of the beast and not everyone will be pleased. If you keep pushing, eventually they'll push back harder.

Like I said, I don't mind it being reviewed. They should of posted a least 5 minutes worth of clips from the film, but did they have to post the entire video, not to mention that they did not credit me. Again, last night, Me and my writers all filed DMCA against that Vimeo channel. Now, if they take down the video or not, that's vimeo's position, not mind and I won't push it. It all on Vimeo. Yes, you are right. The bashing of the actress does have me ticked off..but it wasn't because of the acting, it was something that was totally inappropriate. but, They should of asked for permission or least given me credit. But, like you said. I won't push it any further.

Heroine Addict · 9 years ago

Pursuing these people may well be counter-productive. While DC/Warner may be quite tolerant of fan films, they have been known to stamp on crowdfunding for fan films. Best to stay off their radar.

Honestly, if this sub-Rifftrax commentary/review only got 56 views in a week, you could have just it fade into obscurity.

9 years ago

Heroine Addict wrote:Pursuing these people may well be counter-productive. While DC/Warner may be quite tolerant of fan films, they have been known to stamp on crowdfunding for fan films. Best to stay off their radar.

Honestly, if this sub-Rifftrax commentary/review only got 56 views in a week, you could have just it fade into obscurity.

You are right on that.

UPDATE: I have just emailed Vimeo and I've decided to drop the DMCA filing against that Vimeo channel for posting my video on their channel. There are a lot of factors into why I filed, but I've read a lot of you folks opinions and input on this topic/situation and decided to have a change of heart on the issue.

A lot of you have told me not to push it further because it may backfire and you could be right at that, so I have emailed vimeo on the matter and have ask them to drop the filing against that channel as soon as possible.

Whether its the right thing to do..is questionable in my view.

avenger · 9 years ago

It may be a good decision that can only help you man, because one day you may be behind one of the best super heroine fan films and getting noticed and reviewed on a video site could help generate traffic and attention to you and perhaps one day you will do it for the money....best of luck to you buddy, and keep doing what you're doing

9 years ago

avenger wrote:It may be a good decision that can only help you man, because one day you may be behind one of the best super heroine fan films and getting noticed and reviewed on a video site could help generate traffic and attention to you and perhaps one day you will do it for the money....best of luck to you buddy, and keep doing what you're doing

You could be right. You'll have to forgive me for sounding defensive and sensitive over this situation because this hasn't happened to me before. It's just that I'm still learning the process when it comes to fan films and have to come to the realization of the social media world and people's reviews and statements. I mean besides..the insults on the girls...the statement that really gets to me in this review is that "They called it a porn film" which is not Now, folks can call it a fetish film and that's ok...it can go either way whether its a fetish film or a fan film. It borders around both. It's 50/50. But, its wasn't meant to be looked that way. the point of this series is to focus on a Superheroine Peril situation (which is barely touched on in Superhero/Superheroine films) It's not porn. Nor will i ever get into that part of the field.

Yes, there are gonna be people who don't get it and will never get it. That's fine. I guess for me, I still have a lot to learn about this field and what I'm up against. But, I'm willing to accept the challenge. I do appreciate the feedback from a lot of you folks.

And I really do appreciate you folks support of this fan film series of mine. I know its not Hollywood because its low budget. But lord knows that I do the best I can to put out a product that's entertaining to watch and for people to talk about. Whether its good or bad, Luckly for me, its been mostly good and that's a blessing and that's why I keep doing them and enjoy creating them. Of course, after Supergirl V, their will be two last installments of this series and then of course I'll move on. But you could be right. you never know. I could one day be behind one of the best super heroine fan films in the future. But we shall see. Once again, I appreciate the feedback.

avenger · 9 years ago

before I forget, I want to say jimbobklyn5, that I admire your dedication and passion to the genre; doing these movies for free takes a lot of guts and you should be commended for doing these for free, especially since some of the costs come out of your own pockets and you're unemployed. I admire you for doing these under less than ideal circumstances. You're probably one of the few on here that do this for free. I can also tell you care about your product and the people who work for you; and you deserve a lot of respect for that. You can definitely say you're not in it for the paycheck (although one day I hope you are) and care about what you're putting out, rather than just cranking out material like sausages because it makes you money. Having said all that, I hope you keep in mind that some of the people who commented above who encouraged you to fight the system do this for a living and they get PAID for it, so of course they're not going to want their product featured without payment! They have websites and get paid for their pictures, movies, sites, etc. and you don't, so their perspective is going to be a lot different from yours. One of them even said they have someone PAID to go after websites, so obviously some have more firepower to pursue these things than you do. Personally, I think as long as you're making free fan movies, having them posted on another site, whether it be in its entirety or just samplers, could only generate more attention and interest in your projects and hopefully give you the momentum to one day make a PAID living out of it. I do have some experience in these things because while my product isn't tangible (you can't hold it) but you can HEAR it, but my product is also protected under publishing laws, so I do get credit for it and get paid for it (quite well, I should add) but I just wanted to commend you and tell you that you're a rare breed in this genre and should be commended for it, because let's face it, I don't think anyone else who's reading this thread or commented on it would be able or willing to do what you're doing.

DrDominator9 · 9 years ago

I second everything that Avenger said. Your dedication to the genre is remarkable and to be commended. Keep up the good work.

9 years ago

I'm almost tempted to ask for the url of this page so i can join and start leaving comments on how disappointed I am in the channel for the dissection.

9 years ago

KnightsofGotham.com wrote:I'm almost tempted to ask for the url of this page so i can join and start leaving comments on how disappointed I am in the channel for the dissection.

Well, unfortunately..you won't be able to see it or hear it because Vimeo has just taken down the video because it result of a third-party notification. So despite emailing them this morning, telling them to drop the DMCA filing. Vimeo feels that the channel did Copyright Infringe and they removed the video. I know that I don't own the "Supergirl" Character, but I do own the film. Mind you, under the WON YouTube presents logo before every film...it does say Copyright (year)WON-TV/Jimbo-FailExchange Productions.

YouTube · 9 years ago

I take the road of no exposure is bad exposure. People tend to make their own minds about things regardless of the trashy commentary or the panning of a movie. I still love Plan 9 From Outer Space, one of the most ridiculed movies of all time, regardless of what people have said about it

However, I understand your desire to control YOUR movie and where it gets displayed. So if it's making your unhappy, then file the notice.

**Update**
Which I see you've already did.

I also agree about when we make videos based on copyrighted characters, it's a thin line we have to tread since technically, we're doing the same thing that we're accusing others of doing

Mr. X · 9 years ago

Think of pirating as free advertising. Just make sure your URL and logo are all over it.

YouTube · 9 years ago

I should also point out that these are my feelings on FREE content that is being put out there. I obviously do not support pirating or stealing of content.

Mr. X · 9 years ago

True. I produce free content and if its pirated so be it. Its advertising. My only concern is if its put in a pay area for revenue generation but if the person goes to the url on the artwork they get it for free anyway.

9 years ago

DrDominator9 wrote:I second everything that Avenger said. Your dedication to the genre is remarkable and to be commended. Keep up the good work.

Thank you for the kinds words, DrDominator9. I really appreciate it a lot

9 years ago

avenger wrote:before I forget, I want to say jimbobklyn5, that I admire your dedication and passion to the genre; doing these movies for free takes a lot of guts and you should be commended for doing these for free, especially since some of the costs come out of your own pockets and you're unemployed. I admire you for doing these under less than ideal circumstances. You're probably one of the few on here that do this for free. I can also tell you care about your product and the people who work for you; and you deserve a lot of respect for that. You can definitely say you're not in it for the paycheck (although one day I hope you are) and care about what you're putting out, rather than just cranking out material like sausages because it makes you money. Having said all that, I hope you keep in mind that some of the people who commented above who encouraged you to fight the system do this for a living and they get PAID for it, so of course they're not going to want their product featured without payment! They have websites and get paid for their pictures, movies, sites, etc. and you don't, so their perspective is going to be a lot different from yours. One of them even said they have someone PAID to go after websites, so obviously some have more firepower to pursue these things than you do. Personally, I think as long as you're making free fan movies, having them posted on another site, whether it be in its entirety or just samplers, could only generate more attention and interest in your projects and hopefully give you the momentum to one day make a PAID living out of it. I do have some experience in these things because while my product isn't tangible (you can't hold it) but you can HEAR it, but my product is also protected under publishing laws, so I do get credit for it and get paid for it (quite well, I should add) but I just wanted to commend you and tell you that you're a rare breed in this genre and should be commended for it, because let's face it, I don't think anyone else who's reading this thread or commented on it would be able or willing to do what you're doing.

Thank you very much, avenger.

I really do appreciate all the kinds words from not only you but others. i also appreciate all the support you guys have given to the fan film series. it's been great to do and you guys keep it going with your suggestions, opinions, reviews and input. So, thank you, avenger and all of you for the support.

Mr. X · 9 years ago

Yes thanks Jimbo for your work.

it2007 · 9 years ago

MightyHypnotic @hyponlinemedia wrote: I also agree about when we make videos based on copyrighted characters, it's a thin line we have to tread since technically, we're doing the same thing that we're accusing others of doing

Pretty apt description of this whole thread. Especially considering the OP is using an avatar that's basically a riff on the WB logo, plasters copyrighted Supergirl logos, licensed DC artwork, and other official graphics all over his ads.

I don't agree with piracy, but seriously, this is like the pot calling the kettle black.

9 years ago

it2007 wrote:
MightyHypnotic @hyponlinemedia wrote: I also agree about when we make videos based on copyrighted characters, it's a thin line we have to tread since technically, we're doing the same thing that we're accusing others of doing
Pretty apt description of this whole thread. Especially considering the OP is using an avatar that's basically a riff on the WB logo, plasters copyrighted Supergirl logos, licensed DC artwork, and other official graphics all over his ads.

I don't agree with piracy, but seriously, this is like the pot calling the kettle black.

First of all. the new WON Production logo I created thanks to Vipid which has the Warner Bros letter font posted on their site for download.
Here's the link to it: http://ivipid.com/free_stuff/

Also..I'm not making money off the logos or materials/artwork I use for the film and to promote the film. I always put a disclaimer on all the work stating that we are not associated with DC Comics/Warner Bros at all. This is a fan film. Also, the Supergirl logos made for this series I fixed up myself and some fans of the series created and edited themselves to. Also, other producers in this genre have done the same thing when it comes to their projects. Again, this is a non-profit fan film series.

it2007 · 9 years ago

jimbobklyn5 wrote:Also..I'm not making money off the logos or materials/artwork I use for the film and to promote the film. I always put a disclaimer on all the work stating that we are not associated with DC Comics/Warner Bros at all. This is a fan film. Also, the Supergirl logos made for this series I fixed up myself and some fans of the series created and edited themselves to. Also, other producers in this genre have done the same thing when it comes to their projects. Again, this is a non-profit fan film series.

Not trying to single you out, and you're correct, plenty of other producers are guilty of the same thing. Can't tell you how many times the Wonder Woman theme song has illegally played in front of so many WW adult videos without the proper licensing, which they naturally will never get given the type of movies they are.

This whole business of calling this superheroine fetish genre a "parody/spoof" of copyrighted characters is just like MH said, a thin line. Just look at what Haim Saban is doing right now with Joseph Khan's so-called Power Rangers fan film. Even though it's completely original and nonprofit, boring no resemblance at all to the essence of Power Rangers except in name (which is inherently more wholesome and obviously aimed at kids), the property/IP still belongs to Saban, and he has every legal right to a cease-and-desist.

swampy170 · 9 years ago

.....LOL

Copywrite infringement has nothing to do with earnings from said created works. The earning of money merely makes it worth pursuing legal action, or even just paying someone to hunt down the infringing works.

The fact you managed to even run a kickstarter project, and it not get torn down by DC is pure fluke in itself - particularly with images of Supergirl straight out of the comics.

Alot of ship producers get away with some pretty blatant infringement, parody laws XD
It wouldn't be good for large companies to be seen to even suing fetish producers however. but Fan movie producers on the other hand......

Be careful is my advice - particularly when tossing DCMAs about for fan works!!

9 years ago

it2007 wrote:
jimbobklyn5 wrote:Also..I'm not making money off the logos or materials/artwork I use for the film and to promote the film. I always put a disclaimer on all the work stating that we are not associated with DC Comics/Warner Bros at all. This is a fan film. Also, the Supergirl logos made for this series I fixed up myself and some fans of the series created and edited themselves to. Also, other producers in this genre have done the same thing when it comes to their projects. Again, this is a non-profit fan film series.
Not trying to single you out, and you're correct, plenty of other producers are guilty of the same thing. Can't tell you how many times the Wonder Woman theme song has illegally played in front of so many WW adult videos without the proper licensing, which they naturally will never get given the type of movies they are.

This whole business of calling this superheroine fetish genre a "parody/spoof" of copyrighted characters is just like MH said, a thin line. Just look at what Haim Saban is doing right now with Joseph Khan's so-called Power Rangers fan film. Even though it's completely original and nonprofit, boring no resemblance at all to the essence of Power Rangers except in name (which is inherently more wholesome and obviously aimed at kids), the property/IP still belongs to Saban, and he has every legal right to a cease-and-desist.

You are correct. it is a thin line. Now for me...i don't use any music theme from the Superman/Supergirl film. I use copyright free music. I do know that Myself and many others are using copyrighted characters. But the way i have my Supergirl character is that, her alter ego is completely changed and the storyline is completely changed as well. So even though I am using the "Supergirl" character in the fan film series, I am not following the original storyline from the comics.

As for the crowdfunding, i don't ask for much when it comes to funding. The fan film series is a very low budget project. Again, it is a thin line deal and I happen to be on one of those thin lines and its a risk I have to take.

9 years ago

swampy170 wrote:.....LOL

Copywrite infringement has nothing to do with earnings from said created works. The earning of money merely makes it worth pursuing legal action, or even just paying someone to hunt down the infringing works.

The fact you managed to even run a kickstarter project, and it not get torn down by DC is pure fluke in itself - particularly with images of Supergirl straight out of the comics.

Alot of ship producers get away with some pretty blatant infringement, parody laws XD
It wouldn't be good for large companies to be seen to even suing fetish producers however. but Fan movie producers on the other hand......

Be careful is my advice - particularly when tossing DCMAs about for fan works!!

Again, I know that I'm using a copyrighted character...but in this case and despite all that..its my fan film/my property. I own the film (not the character, but the film) I said this before..if they used about 2 to 5 minutes and had given me credit, then everything would be fine. But, they uploaded the entire film which wasn't necessary and they uploaded the video without my permission.

now i will be careful, i'm not gonna push the DMCA..i had submitted last night..but emailed vimeo this morning to drop the claim. At the moment, the video is still off of vimeo..but it could be restored within hours/days.

avenger · 9 years ago

oh man, I just hope a giant can of ugly worms isn't going to be opened up because of all this! I'd hate to see some super heroines that we've all gotten used to and enjoy meet their demise, not by evil villains or kinky death traps, but by lawyers with too much time on their hands. Where does it all end?! All it takes is one good aggressive lawyer to do a quick search on super heroine bondage and there is a wealth of material that comes up....and not let's talk about how similar some costume logos are because I've seen plenty of them being used in various productions. You can change the name all you want, but the costumes are still pretty obvious to me, and more importantly, to some lawyer who wants to play hardball. Personally, I'd hate to see some of these particular heroines have to end because of obvious likeness infringement, etc. Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.....

9 years ago

avenger wrote:oh man, I just hope a giant can of ugly worms isn't going to be opened up because of all this! I'd hate to see some super heroines that we've all gotten used to and enjoy meet their demise, not by evil villains or kinky death traps, but by lawyers with too much time on their hands. Where does it all end?! All it takes is one good aggressive lawyer to do a quick search on super heroine bondage and there is a wealth of material that comes up....and not let's talk about how similar some costume logos are because I've seen plenty of them being used in various productions. You can change the name all you want, but the costumes are still pretty obvious to me, and more importantly, to some lawyer who wants to play hardball. Personally, I'd hate to see some of these particular heroines have to end because of obvious likeness infringement, etc. Be careful what you wish for is all I can say.....

I agree and I hope it doesn't open a can of ugly worms either. Like I said, I dropped the DMCA claim early this morning. Despite the video still being off..it will most likely be restored in a few hours/couple of days.

I think it wrong for these companies to go after creative minds, especially if those creative minds are not making money off the copyright material. Its a tricky subject when you look at it from top to bottom.

swampy170 · 9 years ago

*looks to bottom of page to see Microsoft's Bing bot browsing* - it's not hard to find these things!

Wish the best of luck, just be careful!

DC are starting to use their properties in large Hollywood movies - and are no doubt well aware of the SHIP fetish base. If I was a producer, I'd be moving towards creating my own IP and moving away from the core of DC heroines (v. few marvel ones).

As those movies come closer to coming out, wouldn't be surprised to see some hungry lawyers making the rounds.

avenger · 9 years ago

"I think it wrong for these companies to go after creative minds, especially if those creative minds are not making money off the copyright material. Its a tricky subject when you look at it from top to bottom." But is it wrong? I'm not taking sides here (because I have nothing to gain or lose) but let's hope that one company finds out what you're doing and decides to get in touch with you. At the very least, that company may be flattered that you're making fan-tribute films based on an obvious DC property and maybe will send you a polite warning letter, or maybe ignore it all together since you're not making any money off it, OR, maybe that company can see all the obvious logos and artwork and actual name of said DC property and decide that you're infringing all over it, whether you're making money or not. Here is the dark ugly side of things: not only can they sue for obvious copyright infringement, but they also have the right to collect any and all money made from such movie......for clarity I'm going to use Jim Weathers' O-Girl character as an example because O-Girl is 100% a Jim Weathers creation and as far as I know, no such heroine called O-Girl exists and does not obviously make one say "O-Girl reminds me of...." or "O-Girl looks just like...." and there's no real tangible comparison between O-Girl and any other super heroine out there. Add to the fact that Jim probably (at least I hope so) copyrighted his character, then he's got nothing to lose or worry about. On the other end of the spectrum---and I won't use names here----but we all see plenty of 'Wunder Woman' or 'Wonderous Woman' or 'Wonderful Woman' (you get the idea) characters with VERY similar costumes and any 10 year old kid can look at those and say "that looks just like Wonder Woman!" and that is where the trouble begins...add to that some of the models/producers are using the actual tv theme song or sound effects in their movies, and you have a recipe for disaster. I'll be the first to admit that I buy a lot of WW-type movies and a lot of them are very clear and obvious rip-offs of the tv show, whether the name is changed or not, it's a blatant 'parody' of a certain licensed property. I can go on but would rather not. I know the damage that can be done when and if a lawyer finds out about all these super heroine movies being made and it would be a shame that things have to stop because of egos, conflicts, controversy, drama, etc. In the grand scheme of things, if I was a lawyer, would I go after the small fish that is making non-profit fan movies like jimbobklyn5, or the bigger fish that make a lot of money off it like someone's 1984 Supergirl-like movie? Yeah, I think we all know the answer to that.

Mr. X · 9 years ago

jimbobklyn5 wrote: I think it wrong for these companies to go after creative minds, especially if those creative minds are not making money off the copyright material. Its a tricky subject when you look at it from top to bottom.

I don't agree. For example I would not want someone using Ms. Americana for their works even if they give it away for free. One can lose your claim of ownership that way. Then it becomes a challenge since someone can say "hey you let this guy use her and this guy and this guy, why get picky now".

I personally don't get why vendors set themselves up by blatantly using copyrighted characters. One could have their own video inventory yanked for example. I would imagine they ignore most this stuff but one issue is a competitor can send an email getting DC lawyers onto another competitor real easy.

Your stuff is fan stuff obviously and non-profit so I would imagine you're harmless.

avenger · 9 years ago

I'm not in the movie making industry but the music making industry and the legal monster is there as well, just not as prevalent.....but one thing is for sure: there is no honor among thieves and there is no loyalty when it comes to competition. In this super heroine fetish industry, all it takes is one angry or jealous or vindictive model or producer to send an anonymous email to a DC lawyer and all hell breaks loose. The funny thing is, there are very few people in this super heroine genre who are completely immune and have nothing to worry about because of their own original creations, but when it comes to all the Wonder Woman, Super Girl, and Bat Girl 'parodies', watch out.....there are a lot of people who have a lot to lose, but like I said, I'm just a fan who enjoys these things and hope they continue. Now, if I hear anyone out there stealing my guitar solos or riffs, you'll be hearing from my lawyer

Mr. X · 9 years ago

Yes I think that's what happened with SHC. We got a DMCA notice from DC for our American Fox video and she didn't even look like Wonder Woman. We surmised a competitor sent an email and complained.

avenger · 9 years ago

I won't name names, but I think someone from now-defunct newphx did the same to someone else

theScribbler · 9 years ago

If DC were going to go after someone doing superhero/heroine parodies of their property, they'd probably pick Vivid. You know, cause Vivid has money, so if DC wins they'd get their damages, eventually, after appeals. So why don't they? Probably cause Vivid has been doing parody porn for many years (decades), has good lawyers, and DC guesstimates they would most likely lose to the parody, fair use defense.

Parodies: The discussion that suggests that the more one deviates from say, Wonder Woman character, look, style, tone, story, etc. the safer ground you're on is actually the opposite of the truth (when it comes to parodies). When you're doing a parody of something, you're commenting on it in some way, and the more you nail the subject matter, the more obvious it is that your parody is in fact a parody. The more you deviate, then the more into a grey area you get. Change the name too much, change the costume, the colors, give your so-called parody of WW an eskimo accent, give her other powers, change her origin, the more you'd be getting away from parody and fair use goes more and more out the window.

The above only applies to parodies. Totally different thing with original characters. If you're attempting to do an original character, and your original character is a heck of a lot like WW, so much so that it's obvious to most people, DC could have a copyright infringement case to make.

An aside: One thing I've noticed that Vivid does avoid using in their parody videos, superhero or otherwise, is trademarked things: ala logos. They nail the costumes really well, even improve on them, pick appropriate looking actors/actresses, but they don't use the Superman, Batman logos. Hmmm. They did use Riddler's '?' logo (not trademarked). So why does Vivid parody the IP of others, but not trademarks? Well, I'm not really sure. Could be while Vivid is pretty confident in being able to defend against a copyright infringement suit using the fair use, parody defense, they're less confident about winning against a trademark dilution suit. But I don't really know. Though I do know Vivid's not stupid, got to be a reason, so use trademarked logos at your own risk.

Mr. X · 9 years ago

theScribbler wrote:If DC were going to go after someone doing superhero/heroine parodies of their property, they'd probably pick Vivid. You know, cause Vivid has money, so if DC wins they'd get their damages, eventually, after appeals. So why don't they? Probably cause Vivid has been doing parody porn for many years (decades), has good lawyers, and DC guesstimates they would most likely lose to the parody, fair use defense.

I think it would be the reverse. Vivid has in the past engaged in lawsuits. They have the money. I think DC would find an easy target to burn on a cross to scare everyone. If they went after Vivid I would imagine small timers would say "meh I'm below the radar cause vivid has money and I don't".