Discussion: Why no one new?

General discussions about superheroines!
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GMan2
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I've wondered at times, why is it that it's the same heroines over and over....and over again, that seem to be the only sellers for producers. Wonder Woman, Supergirl, and Batgirl. The 3 main heroines that if a producer makes a movie with, will possibly do well for them. Of course I don't have sales figures to back that up. I'm just going by comments I see posted here on the forum in topics related to the release of a video, or the topics of upcoming releases...where members are posting, "OMG! I cannot WAIT to see this!"

So why no other characters? Why no Zatanna vids, or Firestar, Storm, Rogue, Isis, She-Ra, Psylocke? Jana from the Wonder Twins, Galaxy Girl, Princess Ariel (from Thundarr)? There are just so many heroines out there that never get 'defeated'. :tongue: And lord knows whenever we saw them on our Saturday morning cartoons, or comic book....we DREAMED of seeing them in some perilous, death defying situations. So why isn't anyone asking, or begging producers to create it? Is there no demand? Not enough interest? Are costumes too difficult to create? Or are people not that familiar with those particular heroines?

And I've only posted this to start a discussion. (Or not) I guess if no one says anything then it does answer my question about there being no interest in those characters. But I'd love to see some of the 'lesser' heroines brought to life. Maybe include them in a Wonder Woman, Supergirl, or Batgirl vid. "Wonder Woman and Jana of the Wonder Twins vs ******"

It was friggin AWESOME seeing Electro Woman and Dyna Girl vids appearing recently. And with Randy Moore FILLING the Electro Woman costume so damn fine... :thumbup: There was no way, I don't think, that anyone could be disappointed.

So how about it? Do we want some of the lesser knowns to be subjected to our perversions? Or do the 'Big 3' keep getting all of our money? Now honestly? If Christina Carter is doing a Wonder Woman project with her in the lead role? And I have the money to purchase it? I'm going to possibly buy that. :yes: CC as Wonder Woman just gets no better in my book. Personal opinion of course.

What's everyone else think?
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Ninja J.
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I've often wondered that also. That was one of the cool things about SHC. They seemed to make new heroines frequently. Some sites are great at coming up with their own heroines but other sites, even great, well-known sites still don't. It's weird to me that good quality reputable sites have amazing models, editing, and filming, but still use cheap costumes.

If I had to guess why I would imagine that it's cheaper to buy Supergirl, Batgirl or Wonder Woman costumes because you could go to any Halloween store and get them, as opposed to ordering a costume to be made or purchasing one that's harder to find. Not to mention that the "Big 3" are usually the ones people want to see defeated, so Producers save money in the costumes (I'm guessing) and probably sell more vids (I'm guessing) with a Supergirl vid rather than a Storm or Rogue vid. And while I would like to see more heroines, like a Ms. Marvel or a Psylocke, there are other costumes and heroines that personally wouldn't interest me at all. Different heroines don't always equal better. Again another possible reason why producers use the same heroine. Why risk using a different costume or heroine when what they are using works just fine?
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Rye
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Gman2-

The incredible volume of movies with SG, BG, and WW has to do with a couple of things IMO...

- A lot of producers (can't speak for everyone) who have a heroine fetish likely developed it from one of those three characters. For instance it's no secret that I love love love love Supergirl... That being said, it's no shock that they would personally like to see and film those characters.

- The producers who do not have the fetish (which could very well out number those who do at this point) are simply doing what gets requested all the time which is the "big 3" as you called them ;)

Now this doesn't mean that lesser known heroines or even original heroines can't sell well...
Anything can sell if it's done right. I had my hands into 4 movies this year with original heroines and 2 of them sold incredibly well, 1 sold well, and the last did fair, but the lower sales weren't because the heroine didn't look like SG, BG, or WW.

Ninja J-

I would say the bulk of the producers that are pushing the genera forward in quality, cinematography, effects, sound, etc etc are probably using custom costumes most of the time.
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drh1966
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I think it mostly comes down to interest. Any time there's a poll asking for which characters fans want to see, those 3 usually get the majority of votes. Could be because they are truly the big 3 in the heroine universe for most of us; also could be because they have appeared in live action shows and movies when most of us were young thereby cementing an image in our heads. When people think WW, they think Lynda Carter, Supergirl is Helen Slater and Batgirl is Yvonne Craig. Costuming, actresses, anything to do with the 3 are all measured against them for better or worse.
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Zeta Clark
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I would guess part of the reason is the same with fan fiction. Using establish characters gives the producer ease of marketing, a wealth of material to make stories from, and an existing fan base for the character. For movies specifically, there is also accessibility to costumes.

As to why those specific three, it may be because they represent the big three characters in DC comics (Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman). I realize that this may sound like something a villain would think, but in stories of peril, I believe that the bigger and the more powerful the target, the more satisfying the result is perceived to be after you've knocked that target "down a few pegs". And well, what bigger prize can there be than those three heroines? From a non-peril perspective though, these heroine also represent the princess, the girl-next-door, and the smart and nimble athlete...typical sex fantasy archetypes.

Personally, I was always influenced by the Wonder Woman television show. How many times was she bound, hypnotized, chloroformed, and stripped (her belt)? Honestly, probably not as much as I remember. Hehe. There is also the campy Batman television show, where we occasionally found Batgirl in peril. And I also remember the Electra Woman and Dynagirl show. I have a lot of memories of those stories in my early childhood, as I'm sure others do also, and I think producers have a powerful incentive therefore to try to tap into that.

I agree, there should be more heroines. And I believe as the genre grows and becomes more widely accepted, we will see more of the other heroines and not just the safe-bet-globally-recognized-and-somewhat-iconic ones.
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avenger
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where was Randy Moore as Electra Woman (recently?) are you referring to one of CC's Cat's Eye videos? I've always thought Randy should do more Electra Woman vids; she's perfect and has the Deidre Hall/Markie Post seal of approval
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drh1966
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Zeta Clark wrote:Personally, I was always influenced by the Wonder Woman television show. How many times was she bound, hypnotized, chloroformed, and stripped (her belt)? Honestly, probably not as much as I remember. There is also the campy Batman television show, where we occasionally found Batgirl in peril. And I also remember the Electra Woman and Dynagirl show.
WW is my personal favorite, I was 9 when that show hit and season 1 remains a sentimental favorite. I never liked seasons 2 and 3, it was more about Diana Prince and most of the WW peril was gone. I can't tell you how excited I was when Christina Carter unveiled her season 1 costume a couple of years ago, unfortunately, she seems to only do girl on girl anymore and I'm not into that so sucks to be me.
The Electra Woman show also came on right about that time as did the Shazam/Isis show, not to mention the reruns of Batman, so I was exposed to all kinds of heroine peril during my formative years. I can't say that I feel the same way about Batgirl or EW as I do about WW, I don't think I own a vid featuring either. I guess we like what we like.
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cdrei
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When did the DC "big three" superheroines begin to become so prevalent in SHIB productions? When I first joined here, a few years ago, there didn't seem to be much Batgirl material available. Maybe there was more than I thought, but I ignored productions which used the name while using one of the costume variants that doesn't interest me. Hmm. :unsure: I didn't pay much attention at all to the number of Wonder Woman or Supergirl productions available at the time I joined. Before joining here, I had the impression that almost all internet SHIB productions featured brand new heroines created for the productions, many of them in rather bland leotard-based costumes. This makes me wonder if there was some change in the SHIB "industry", perhaps in the wake of the high-profile superhero XXX parodies. :unsure:

At any rate, I would start trying to answer the question by addressing the history of SHIB productions, if I knew enough about that history.

I can say that the superheroines of a certain era seem, to me at least, somehow better suited for SHIB. I think these would be Silver and Bronze Age characters (1960s-1970s), mainly. The cultural tone was different then, and superheroines were more likely to be depicted in situations of distress and/or bondage. Since then, the culture has changed and newer characters carry a different tone. Fans of SHIB may be likely to have developed the interest based on bondage or trap scenes featuring mainstream characters, and these older characters were more likely to have been in such scenes. Also factoring into this might be the average age of SHIB fans, members here, or those who are likely to purchase SHIB videos or photo sets. I would assume that most of us were young and impressionable during those Silver and Bronze Age years.

Body packaging is important with superheroines, particularly when a work is not dealing with them as characters so much as emblems. The heroine in most SHIB features I've seen could likely swap out her uniform for something from another B&D-type fetish and the production would work almost as well. The costume in most SHIB productions is a quick, easy way to telegraph the fact that this is a superheroine we're seeing. Costuming is important. I would suggest that the DC Big Three have some of the most iconic superheroine costume designs, and probably the most recognizable. DC has had other characters, but Zatanna, say, has changed her costume a bazillion times and never appeared in many scenes of distress. Hawkgirl/woman has a strong costume, but the wings are awkward and (again), the character was rarely in SHIB scenarios. Marvel's heroines have had patchy histories, changing costumes regularly and/or being out of print for long periods, and few of them appeared in much SHIB. With almost all mainstream characters, the further you get from the Bronze Age the more the characters seem to be depicted as lacking vulnerability, being tough and mean and more likely to be beaten bloody by a foe than tied up or put in a trap. A lot of characters don't naturally fit into the SHIB formula. Depict any female X-Man in bondage and maybe it looks like you've taken a scene better suited for Wonder Woman and substituted a new heroine. :unsure: The further you get from the Bronze Age, too, the less likely a costume is to be powerfully iconic. The Jim Lee Effect took hold, and accepted standards of superheroic costume design changed a great deal. A Psylocke is less iconic than a Spider-Woman is less iconic than a Supergirl.

Finally, I wonder about the influence of film and TV on the matter. The DC Big Three have had high-profile appearances on the big and small screens, in their iconic costumes. ElectraWoman & Dynagirl only existed on TV. Marvel heroes and heroines in televisual media tend to be affected by a lot of design tinkering, as though the productions in which the characters appear are afraid to fully embrace the superhero genre. If Storm, Rogue, and Phoenix had appeared in the X-Men films in their most iconic uniforms, probably they'd carry more weight as SHIB featured characters, but instead they all wore nondescript leather outfits. I can't think of any characters besides the Big Three and EWDG who have appeared in true superheroine form on TV or in film, particularly featured in traps and bondage. Were there others?

I also note that Christina has been featuring some more obscure characters like Hellcat and Black Cat in recent productions. So perhaps there is some hope...?

I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm just speculating, here. It is an interesting question, really. One of these days, too, I am going to make a nice, short, concise post on this forum. I am determined to accomplish that! :laugh:
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RedMountain
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I think in terms of reality for the producers, it's just easy to do those three costumes which helps on costs.

Huntress, Zatanna, Rogue, etc. are all much hotter and cooler heroines than SG, WW, and BG, at least to me, but look at the work that would go into making a costume like that. It's a lot easier to throw on a blue leotard and red skirt than it is to put together a decent Zatanna costume that doesn't look like crap. There are some really hot Zatanna cosplays out there but when you see how much work the girls had to put in to make the costume it just wouldn't be economical for producers to do so.

One of the reasons I used to love the old Harmony Concepts vids is they came up with some really unique costumes, and no superheroine costume to me will ever be as good as Darla Crane's Spellbinder.
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dlo005
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RedMountain wrote:I think in terms of reality for the producers, it's just easy to do those three costumes which helps on costs.

Huntress, Zatanna, Rogue, etc. are all much hotter and cooler heroines than SG, WW, and BG, at least to me, but look at the work that would go into making a costume like that. It's a lot easier to throw on a blue leotard and red skirt than it is to put together a decent Zatanna costume that doesn't look like crap. There are some really hot Zatanna cosplays out there but when you see how much work the girls had to put in to make the costume it just wouldn't be economical for producers to do so.

One of the reasons I used to love the old Harmony Concepts vids is they came up with some really unique costumes, and no superheroine costume to me will ever be as good as Darla Crane's Spellbinder.
I agree with you rm, spellbinders costume was great...and Darla crane filled it well....I also liked kelsie chambers as spellbinder....both looked hot in that costume
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GMan2
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Thanks for discussing guys! :thumbup:

Rye - I hear you bud. I suspected as much. And I don't mean that in any sort of bad manner either. I guess it would be the same for me, if I was a producer. I LOVE Wonder Woman. The more I see of her, especially in a really good costume...I want to see everything. And if I don't get my fill, and I'm able, I'll keep looking for more of her and possibly buy it. So if I were a producer, and my 'kink' was Wonder Woman? I suppose I'd be shooting a TON of Wonder Woman vids. :yahoo:

I emailed Villain from Sooperhero sometime ago, it's been over a year....but I asked him why he kept doing wedgies. I was like, can't you think of ANYTHING else to 'humiliate' a heroine? And his response back to me was one I was unprepared for. But quite simply it was that that was what he liked. Kind of his 'kink'. And you know, time and time again you will see people express disappointments over material they've purchased, not realizing that the person who's product they bought, simply purchased something that that producer liked and decided to sell it. How many times is it said, "Hey, if you don't like it, go do it yourself?" This is exactly what I think happens at times. Producers are shooting videos of stuff THEY LIKE. Then they sell it hoping that others will too. So if a Supergirl'ish character is what you like, and you want to keep shooting that style character....go for it. :D But with the quality of videos you shoot? I'd LOVE to see you tackle a traditional Wonder Woman. :yes: :love: Which defeats my whole purpose of this discussion, but I thought I'd just toss that out there. :lol:

Avenger - Yes, that's the series of CC vids I was thinking of. Randy was in CC's Cat's Eye video and looked HOT! And I'm like you....I'd LOVE to see Randy do more EW material. She was PERFECT for that role. The 'ONLY' thing that I'd change would be the Villain. Picture Christina as Glitter Rock, or one of the other villains from that show. Her Black Cat character seemed out of place for Electro Woman. :hmmm: Though Christina wearing a catsuit doesn't deter me away that much. :smile:

RedM - Agree 100% Darla and Kelsey wearing that Spellbinder costume were drool worthiness enough to take Texas out of a drought. 'Back in the day' those 2 were part of some of my favorite kinks. Tight costume, beautiful gals, AMAZING pair of boots...the whole 9 yards. They were one of the first 'original' heroine I saw, outside of the 'big 3', and once I had purchased my first PC. KKY's website showed me that there was a LOT more people out there that shared the same exact thoughts as I. :smile:


Thanks all for responding...I still love seeing the Big 3, but remain hopeful that at times, some of the 'lesser knowns' might make an appearance! :)
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Mr. X
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You want new costumes try http://www.akiba-web.com which is the giga freaks site.
They go through costumes like crazy. And some really good ones as well. And they have real BAD GUYS! Awesome costumes. I remember one bad guy was a giant chunk of cheese or something and another was a clock. Awesome!

In fact they seem to rotate through models a lot making me suspicious that working for them may not be all that great. Nearly a new girl every shoot. In fact I wish they kept more consistent heroines like their Wonder Lady line but again it seems the models are pretty flighty. The videos are also quite repetitive. I'd much prefer forgoing the real sex for much more bondage and KOs. And they appear to avoid breast implants.
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GMan2
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Just as long as they're not 'pooping'.

Small boobs? Ehhh...big are nice...but smalls need attention too. LOL!

But the main thing I don't like with the Japanese vids is the shear fact of not being able to understand them. Yes I know...who pays attention to the dialogues, right? I like too...It just adds to the story of what is happening. The Japanese have Superheroine fetish mastered. Damn I wish we could get some shoots like they do here in the states. But I'd imagine if a crew showed up in a local park and started beating the piss out of a gal still dressed in her 'secret identity' clothing. Local 911 operators would be flooded. But look off in the background on some of those shoots in Japan. People walking by like it's just another day in the park. LOL!
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Mr. X
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Yeah I'm amazed how they can shoot on a bike path or park. But then the stuff they do in public is either PG or they apparently just do stuff when no one is looking. But they also do a lot of PG related material as another site. Mostly power ranger type fetish material without the adult stuff.
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I can't speak for everyone else, but I do mostly Wonder Woman because she's my favorite and always has been, she is also what sells the best. I have done one Isis video and it did ok, but not nearly as well as WW. I recently hooked up with someone who is interested in getting into siper villainess clips, so she'll be releasing her own store here shortly. We're trying to implement some new characters for her to take down :)
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Richpartist
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Good discussion,I would REALLY love to see Princess Ariel and Agent Aika girls in a video.
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Mr. X
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One of the issues is obscurity. I'd love to see Gravity Girl for example but no one knows her. Aika is pretty obscure compared to Wonder Woman. McDonalds always a safer bet than Bob's Roadhouse especially when you're plunking down $20
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WndrWmn28
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Mr. X wrote:One of the issues is obscurity. I'd love to see Gravity Girl for example but no one knows her. Aika is pretty obscure compared to Wonder Woman. McDonalds always a safer bet than Bob's Roadhouse especially when you're plunking down $20
LOL Great point!! Would you feel safer going to a McDonalds that offered not only Bic Macs but Bob's Roadhouse dishes as well?
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Mr. X
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But most vendors don't have the scratch to risk putting Bob's stuff on the menu. For example I created obscure characters (spies, fight game type characters, lara croft clones) and didn't see much sales.
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GMan2 wrote:Just as long as they're not 'pooping'.

Small boobs? Ehhh...big are nice...but smalls need attention too. LOL!

But the main thing I don't like with the Japanese vids is the shear fact of not being able to understand them. Yes I know...who pays attention to the dialogues, right? I like too...It just adds to the story of what is happening. The Japanese have Superheroine fetish mastered. Damn I wish we could get some shoots like they do here in the states. But I'd imagine if a crew showed up in a local park and started beating the piss out of a gal still dressed in her 'secret identity' clothing. Local 911 operators would be flooded. But look off in the background on some of those shoots in Japan. People walking by like it's just another day in the park. LOL!
They sell videos with subtitles, they don't do it for every video, but they have many with subtitles. Sometimes the dialogues lose a lot in translation, but you get to understand what is happening.
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Yeah, I personally yawn when I see yet another WW/SG/BG movie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being mean. I fully support and more importantly respect producers' decisions, those flicks just ain't for me though.
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WndrWmn28
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ilikechicken wrote:Yeah, I personally yawn when I see yet another WW/SG/BG movie.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not being mean. I fully support and more importantly respect producers' decisions, those flicks just ain't for me though.
So who would float your boat?
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ttb51m
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spider girl
spider woman
black canary
firestar
nova
invisible woman
how about any of the x-men girls
batgirl,,,,opps!
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Brad
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I'd kinda like to see a "Mary Marvel" type superheroine (though I admit I prefer to see her use her super powers over seeing her in peril). For a while, I got my fix with Sarah (see attached photo) over at heavenlyheroines. But I still don't know of too many places to see "Mary Marvel" type heroines in stories or videos.
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Can't speak for anyone else but I've done Black Canary, Mary Marvel, 2 different Green Lanterns, Spider Woman, Hawk Girl, Psylocke, Rogue, Zatanna, Isis, Jade Canary/Shiva and Patriot Girl. All have sold equally well to WW and Batgirl clips. For me it's been the recession keeping me from shooting and the lack of different models in my area when I can shoot that stop me from doing more characters.
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I think they're quite distinct from one another:

Supergirl - innocent blond bombshell, dressed up like a college girl.

Wonder Woman - sophisticated brunette who is all woman.

Batgirl - superheroine/batman wannabe in a mask.

I would say it's the big 4 with:

Catwoman - with a bad girl complex.
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