Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Comic-Con 2015 Reel

[MightyHypnotic]

[DrObiCaffi]

HELLS FUCKING YEAH!

[ttb51m]

very cool!

bout damn time!

[tallyho]

Well, its gonna be a tough job for it to be better than 'Phantom Menace'...

[dajinx1]

I get chills of anticipation from that!

[MightyHypnotic]

Everything about this looks like it's going to be a total WIN.

[AnastasiaPierce]

Totally excited!
watch my episodes meanwhile )

[MightyHypnotic]

Anybody see this yet? Heard it was a real stinker

Actually what I heard is that it's quite good and Abrams didn't take any chances. If anything, he rights the wrongs of previous movies and sets the universe right again.

Is that giving too much away?

[Dogfish]

I've heard it's good enough. A by the numbers remake of A New Hope. Seems fitting given that Disney basically want to mass produce these movies that their first job would be to make something intensely familar to fans of the original that didn't piss anybody off.

I'll probably check it out at some point though I'm in no rush. Nobody I know is raving about how good it is in the way that they did with Mad Max, nor are they all going, "Well that was okay, I guess" as they did for Age of Ultron. So I suppose it'll sit somewhere in the middle.

[Lurkndog]

I saw it this afternoon, and I don't want to give anything away, just go see it for yourself.

You may not love everything, but it's a fun ride and Harrison Ford as Han Solo is worth the price of admission by himself.

[RedMountain]

It was decent, but what I don't like about Abrams is he just isn't creative. He basically just copied New Hope/ROTJ and added in a few elements here and there from the books. He did this same crap with the 2nd Star Trek film where he just copied Wrath of Khan and Space Seed instead of being creative and trying something different. Felt like a really safe effort and while it was bad by any means, it wasn't as great as everyone is making it out to be just because it is Star Wars.

[Mr. X]

I'm wondering why did Abrams reimage Star Trek but not Star Wars? In fact the movie is praised for keeping with its roots. Why wasn't the Falcon redesigned? Time line changed? Characters all changed? So one franchise gets totally reimaged and the other is not?

[athenaartemis]

I've heard it's good enough. A by the numbers remake of A New Hope. Seems fitting given that Disney basically want to mass produce these movies that their first job would be to make something intensely familar to fans of the original that didn't piss anybody off.

I'll probably check it out at some point though I'm in no rush. Nobody I know is raving about how good it is in the way that they did with Mad Max, nor are they all going, "Well that was okay, I guess" as they did for Age of Ultron. So I suppose it'll sit somewhere in the middle.

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one who noticed this new Star Wars movie was a not so good remake of Star Wars Episode IV. I did feel the movie had its good points like Han Solo, the Rei character, the double scoop droid, well shot action scenes and special effects like the new Sith sabre.

Nevertheless, on the whole the movie left me more puzzled than pleased. The movie doesn't match up well with where Episode VI, Return of the Jedi, left off. The movie's own plot has some serious problems. Seeing the movie didn't waste my time and money, but I don't think Disney spent its time and money well.

[Richpartist]

Han had a son,he's evil and kills him.Brothers can be storm troppers too.Hot women can be jedi.Luke is in the last minute of the film and grew a big ass beard.Thats about it.............

[Femina]

I'm wondering why did Abrams reimage Star Trek but not Star Wars? In fact the movie is praised for keeping with its roots. Why wasn't the Falcon redesigned? Time line changed? Characters all changed? So one franchise gets totally reimaged and the other is not?

I can only conjecture a few potential reasons. The first and most personal to him being that he was never a Star Trek fan at heart and therefore the plot was not sacred to him. I'd say though that it had more to do with what Disney wanted than what Abrams did. It was likely Disney who decided to make a direct continuation.

Some other potentially lesser reasons. Star Trek's popularity was waning, Star Wars popularity is generally at a pretty steady simmer. Generally you reboot things when they've gotten less popular or if someone believes the originals to be stagnant. I think Star Wars fans are by and large less agreeable than Star Trek fans and so would be more likely to make a fuss if it was rebooted than would Star Trek fans.

Lastly I think Star Trek fans are sort of used to it? The next Generation felt a great deal different than the original Star Trek to me. Maybe voyager felt similar to TNG sometimes but Deep Space Nine and Enterprise all had their own sort of retooled thematic vibes. Reboots in all but continuity?

I can't say I'm disappointed really. I don't care much for reboots and feel like Star Wars is big enough you can tell stories all across it without needing to reboot anything, but even here the extended universe is essentially being 'rebooted' so it isn't like Star Wars is getting off scott free with its history.

[Dogfish]

I'm wondering why did Abrams reimage Star Trek but not Star Wars? In fact the movie is praised for keeping with its roots. Why wasn't the Falcon redesigned? Time line changed? Characters all changed? So one franchise gets totally reimaged and the other is not?

I can only conjecture a few potential reasons. The first and most personal to him being that he was never a Star Trek fan at heart and therefore the plot was not sacred to him. I'd say though that it had more to do with what Disney wanted than what Abrams did. It was likely Disney who decided to make a direct continuation.

Some other potentially lesser reasons. Star Trek's popularity was waning, Star Wars popularity is generally at a pretty steady simmer. Generally you reboot things when they've gotten less popular or if someone believes the originals to be stagnant. I think Star Wars fans are by and large less agreeable than Star Trek fans and so would be more likely to make a fuss if it was rebooted than would Star Trek fans.

Lastly I think Star Trek fans are sort of used to it? The next Generation felt a great deal different than the original Star Trek to me. Maybe voyager felt similar to TNG sometimes but Deep Space Nine and Enterprise all had their own sort of retooled thematic vibes. Reboots in all but continuity?

I can't say I'm disappointed really. I don't care much for reboots and feel like Star Wars is big enough you can tell stories all across it without needing to reboot anything, but even here the extended universe is essentially being 'rebooted' so it isn't like Star Wars is getting off scott free with its history.

My pet theory is that Abrams saw the nerd rage between Star Trek and Star Wars fans over which was better, and he took it upon himself to fix it. So he made Star Trek shit.

[Mr. X]

I think Paramount has always hated Star Trek. They tend to treat the property as just something to be strip mined when possible. No interest in a franchise. Disney on the other hand poured BILLIONS into acquiring Star Wars and so probably really clamped down on Abrams. The impression I get is Star Trek is your daddy's franchise and Star Wars is the current man child franchise. People don't spend millions a year on Star Trek merchandise. That lego Falcon is like $6400 on amazon. Reimage star wars and you can say goodbye to BILLIONS in merchandise.

[Femina]

I think Paramount has always hated Star Trek. They tend to treat the property as just something to be strip mined when possible. No interest in a franchise. Disney on the other hand poured BILLIONS into acquiring Star Wars and so probably really clamped down on Abrams. The impression I get is Star Trek is your daddy's franchise and Star Wars is the current man child franchise. People don't spend millions a year on Star Trek merchandise. That lego Falcon is like $6400 on amazon. Reimage star wars and you can say goodbye to BILLIONS in merchandise.

Precicely why I sort of assumed it was more Disney's inclination not to reboot than Abrams. As for Paramounts opinion on Star Trek it's difficult to say. I doubt they 'hate' Star Trek insofar as I don't think corporations or buisiness's hate anything so much as they opine on what can and cannot make them ever larger gobs of cash... that being said, the trailer for Star Trek: Beyond seems so so far from what fans of Star Trek ask for from paramount that it almost does come off as an intentional 'FU Star Trek is what we say it is!'

[Visitor]

Disney told J. J. Abrams that the film was not just make a blockbuster, but make something that will give us back the 4 billion dollars we paid for the Star Wars franchise. They wanted something that would keep people coming back to see the next films and buy the merchandise. Much like the success with the Marvel films and not the disaster that Warner Brothers is having with the DC comic films.

It wasn't a great film and it had continuity gaps and plot holes glossed over by keeping the action moving. Still it will get people coming back to see it several times and it has already gotten record sales to start. So Disney got what it wanted.

[Ezekiel]

Still it will get people coming back to see it several times.

Just curious, why would someone go to the cinema to watch the same movie several times in a relatively short timespan? Wouldn't it be pretty boring?

[Femina]

Still it will get people coming back to see it several times.

Just curious, why would someone go to the cinema to watch the same movie several times in a relatively short timespan? Wouldn't it be pretty boring?

It's the same impulse that causes kids to watch the same movie over and over again and why we buy movies on Blu-Ray, its just that while its on the silver screen one has to purchase another ticket to see it again. MOST of my repeat viewings of films are by and large with different family members and friends whom have not seen it before. I don't ordinarily view movies more than once at a theater, but I saw all three Lord of the Rings films many times and I believe I saw James Cameron's Avatar once by myself, once with my mother, and once with my father and younger sister. You know how it goes? The only way to see a movie you've already seen for the first time again is to see it with someone who is seeing it for the first time and to live vicariously through them. Try it sometime?

[Visitor]

Also until the DVD version is available there will be people that go back to catch bits that they missed the first time. Cameo characters or something that another viewer saw in a scene that they missed that is significant now that you've seen the whole movie. I have also heard people going back to see the 3D or IMAX versions after seeing it in regular format.

Personally there are very few movies that I have seen several times in a theater and they have been years apart.

[ywf]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendel ... an-frozen/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/s ... ple-851169

"Force Awakens skewed heavily male, or 67 percent, when opening domestically over the Dec. 18-20 weekend, according to industry leader Rentrak, which conducts real-time exit polls via PostTrak. The gender breakdown changed by Christmas weekend, with males making up 62 percent of the audience and females, 38 percent."

[sugarcoater]

I'm curious if others had these issues with the movie:

SPOILERS are found below


1. Rey learns to use the force in a matter of days (if not less time).
2. The rebel force seems to be comprised of around 100 entities, yet somehow poses a challenge to the thousands (million?) who make up the Empire.
3. The main villain, who looks impressive and intriguing, reveals himself and is nothing more than a young Benedict Cumberbatch-looking whiny teen/20 something with daddy issues.
4. The screen time it takes to find Luke--the main goal in most of the movie--takes about 1 minute, followed by a 2 minute hike (screen time), followed by what seemed like 3 minutes of camera time of Rey holding out Luke's lightsaber as he stares intently at Rey and the saber in a very over dramatic manner.
5. The plot was basically Star Wars all over again, even starting with the Empire capturing someone and an escape to a desert planet on which the Luke character is found.

[Dogfish]

I'm curious if others had these issues with the movie:

SPOILERS are found below


1. Rey learns to use the force in a matter of days (if not less time).
2. The rebel force seems to be comprised of around 100 entities, yet somehow poses a challenge to the thousands (million?) who make up the Empire.
3. The main villain, who looks impressive and intriguing, reveals himself and is nothing more than a young Benedict Cumberbatch-looking whiny teen/20 something with daddy issues.
4. The screen time it takes to find Luke--the main goal in most of the movie--takes about 1 minute, followed by a 2 minute hike (screen time), followed by what seemed like 3 minutes of camera time of Rey holding out Luke's lightsaber as he stares intently at Rey and the saber in a very over dramatic manner.
5. The plot was basically Star Wars all over again, even starting with the Empire capturing someone and an escape to a desert planet on which the Luke character is found.

SPOILERS

1. Everything the prequels say about The Force is wrong. Think back to the original films instead. Luke's force usage means he can match Darth Vader in space combat and blow up a Death Star after a few hours training with Obi Wan and the laser tennis ball. In the context of the original films and this one there is nothing weird about how quickly Rey learns to use the Force.

2. They do a hilariously bad job of explaining this in the film. There are basically three factions in the movie. The New Republic, The Resistance and the First Order. The Resistance are basically the Rebel Alliance from the original films. The New Republic is the government they established to replace the Empire and it has it's own military (which is why the Resistance are a bit thin on the ground). So why don't the New Republic forces show up? Well this is the other thing the movie explains really briefly and badly, the Star Killer attack is basically a Pearl Harbour shot, they take out most of the New Republic fleet as well as the seat of government. There's a deleted scene where Leia sends an agent to plead with the New Republic government to take the First Order Threat more seriously, and you actually see this agent in one of the scenes where the planets blow up.

3. Yeah, that's what he is. Although he's 30 something. This is hardly surprising. He's a bad guy. Bad guys tend to be douchebags.

4. That was all pretty daft, true. Though it was nothing compared to how daft it was that the Millenium Falcon was just lying around with the keys in the ignition in exactly the place where Rey and Finn were running from a First Order attack, to say nothing of the ludicrous deus ex machina of the attackers blowing up the preferred vehicle and forcing them onto the Falcon. It's like they wanted to hang the entire story on a billion to one coincidence on purpose.

5. Yeah. I thought it was pretty funny that Han is literally able to joke about blowing up the Star Killer. It was lazy and uninspired to be honest. There are four legitimate Star Wars movies, three of them end with the destruction of a planet killing super weapon by starfighter attack. Frankly, that shit has never not been old and yeah, they really should have done better.

[Dazzle1]

I'm curious if others had these issues with the movie:

SPOILERS are found below


1. Rey learns to use the force in a matter of days (if not less time).
2. The rebel force seems to be comprised of around 100 entities, yet somehow poses a challenge to the thousands (million?) who make up the Empire.
3. The main villain, who looks impressive and intriguing, reveals himself and is nothing more than a young Benedict Cumberbatch-looking whiny teen/20 something with daddy issues.
4. The screen time it takes to find Luke--the main goal in most of the movie--takes about 1 minute, followed by a 2 minute hike (screen time), followed by what seemed like 3 minutes of camera time of Rey holding out Luke's lightsaber as he stares intently at Rey and the saber in a very over dramatic manner.
5. The plot was basically Star Wars all over again, even starting with the Empire capturing someone and an escape to a desert planet on which the Luke character is found.

SPOILERS

1. Everything the prequels say about The Force is wrong. Think back to the original films instead. Luke's force usage means he can match Darth Vader in space combat and blow up a Death Star after a few hours training with Obi Wan and the laser tennis ball. In the context of the original films and this one there is nothing weird about how quickly Rey learns to use the Force.

2. They do a hilariously bad job of explaining this in the film. There are basically three factions in the movie. The New Republic, The Resistance and the First Order. The Resistance are basically the Rebel Alliance from the original films. The New Republic is the government they established to replace the Empire and it has it's own military (which is why the Resistance are a bit thin on the ground). So why don't the New Republic forces show up? Well this is the other thing the movie explains really briefly and badly, the Star Killer attack is basically a Pearl Harbour shot, they take out most of the New Republic fleet as well as the seat of government. There's a deleted scene where Leia sends an agent to plead with the New Republic government to take the First Order Threat more seriously, and you actually see this agent in one of the scenes where the planets blow up.

3. Yeah, that's what he is. Although he's 30 something. This is hardly surprising. He's a bad guy. Bad guys tend to be douchebags.

4. That was all pretty daft, true. Though it was nothing compared to how daft it was that the Millenium Falcon was just lying around with the keys in the ignition in exactly the place where Rey and Finn were running from a First Order attack, to say nothing of the ludicrous deus ex machina of the attackers blowing up the preferred vehicle and forcing them onto the Falcon. It's like they wanted to hang the entire story on a billion to one coincidence on purpose.

5. Yeah. I thought it was pretty funny that Han is literally able to joke about blowing up the Star Killer. It was lazy and uninspired to be honest. There are four legitimate Star Wars movies, three of them end with the destruction of a planet killing super weapon by starfighter attack. Frankly, that shit has never not been old and yeah, they really should have done better.

My thought exactly, you notice that everyone in the First Order is white, except for Fin.

[Dogfish]

My thought exactly, you notice that everyone in the First Order is white, except for Fin.

That's a strange observation really given that you only see a tiny number of them without masks on and the one who takes his mask off is a black guy.

[Dazzle1]

My thought exactly, you notice that everyone in the First Order is white, except for Fin.

That's a strange observation really given that you only see a tiny number of them without masks on and the one who takes his mask off is a black guy.

Check the officers and non Stormstropers.

[Dogfish]

My thought exactly, you notice that everyone in the First Order is white, except for Fin.

That's a strange observation really given that you only see a tiny number of them without masks on and the one who takes his mask off is a black guy.

Check the officers and non Stormstropers.

Mostly white dudes, but they were all white dudes in the last one and nobody* complained. Seen at least one Asian guy in there but that's about it. Thing is we don't know what's under the armour for about 99% of the First Order personnel depicted in the film, but we do know (thanks to the casting of Finn and Phasma) that it could be anybody. For everybody else? We see a few officers in a couple of control rooms, mostly the backs of heads. If you want to assume that the bad guys are all white, there's enough evidence I guess to say that, but there's also enough evidence to suggest that's not the case.


*In fairness actually quite a lot of English viewers were annoyed that all the Imperial Officers had English accents. That's been mitigated a lot this time by Rey and Finn being English (even if Finn's trying to hide his accent).

[Femina]

My thought exactly, you notice that everyone in the First Order is white, except for Fin.

That's a strange observation really given that you only see a tiny number of them without masks on and the one who takes his mask off is a black guy.

Check the officers and non Stormstropers.

Potential spoilers in this comment
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This is true... but I wouldn't say that it constitutes a lack of color in the First Order more than it seems to suggest that the First Orders fascist parallels mean that they heavily favor humans of white coloring, probably believing them superior. It is so very far from uncommon for fascist regimes to have ludicrous and utterly insane beliefs like this that it doesn't really feel out of place to me. Aliens of ANY race were considered lower life forms by the originating empire, and that seems to be the case for the First Order also as we see zero alien species there except perhaps for Supreme Leader Snoke (though he 'may' just be a severely wounded and dark side mutated human anyway) Considering how heavily the First Order have modeled themselves off of Palpantines Empire this isn't really a senseless inclusion. There's rumors Lando will be back in VIII *fingers crossed* so we could have at least as many as two people of color in the next one. A new star wars record!

Edit: P.S. It doesn't usually help a simple and fantastical films cause to make a gigantic attempt to make your villains empathetic. I think just stating FOR SURE that the troopers aren't clones anymore helps to give their deaths a tad more weight than in the prequals at least, but if you start making the First Empire an all inclusive, fair and equal opportunity employer then you start to reduce the distaste your audience will have for them. The LAST thing you want in a film is to accidentally cause your moviegoers to root for fascists.

[Visitor]

There was a brief line about the First Order taking children like Fin from their families to be brainwashed into Stormtroopers. I missed exactly what was said comparing their effectiveness to clones.

I like the speculation that Fin is result of Lando and Leia getting together while Han was away. This would explain how Fin gets his Force abilities that Kylo Ren noticed.

[Dogfish]

My thought exactly, you notice that everyone in the First Order is white, except for Fin.

That's a strange observation really given that you only see a tiny number of them without masks on and the one who takes his mask off is a black guy.

Check the officers and non Stormstropers.

Potential spoilers in this comment
-
-
-
-

This is true... but I wouldn't say that it constitutes a lack of color in the First Order more than it seems to suggest that the First Orders fascist parallels mean that they heavily favor humans of white coloring, probably believing them superior. It is so very far from uncommon for fascist regimes to have ludicrous and utterly insane beliefs like this that it doesn't really feel out of place to me. Aliens of ANY race were considered lower life forms by the originating empire, and that seems to be the case for the First Order also as we see zero alien species there except perhaps for Supreme Leader Snoke (though he 'may' just be a severely wounded and dark side mutated human anyway) Considering how heavily the First Order have modeled themselves off of Palpantines Empire this isn't really a senseless inclusion. There's rumors Lando will be back in VIII *fingers crossed* so we could have at least as many as two people of color in the next one. A new star wars record!

Edit: P.S. It doesn't usually help a simple and fantastical films cause to make a gigantic attempt to make your villains empathetic. I think just stating FOR SURE that the troopers aren't clones anymore helps to give their deaths a tad more weight than in the prequals at least, but if you start making the First Empire an all inclusive, fair and equal opportunity employer then you start to reduce the distaste your audience will have for them. The LAST thing you want in a film is to accidentally cause your moviegoers to root for fascists.

It's actually kind of interesting that the series attaches no overt politics to the factions at all. I mean look at the Rebels. Yes, they are a diverse, scruffy, ragtag band, but they don't seem too invested in getting rich, getting their dues, breaking out of poverty, because they don't really seem to be in poverty and certainly not because of the Empire/First Order. They have ties to monarchies, they have ties to democracy, they have ties to religion, they have ties to secularism. They don't even talk about a cause, it's just boiled down to survival, and fighting the Empire who are clearly dicks.

But then if you look at the Empire, you don't see opulence, you don't see wealth, you don't see corruption. You see austerity, cruelty, and a relentless pursuit of order. But you also see meritocracy (ruthlessly enforced), you see opportunity, you see dedication. This is unlike the real world versions of such tyrannies, because by the usual run of things the guys at the top get paid. The Emperor wore a simple robe, he didn't put himself in a uniform with a million medals, or fly around in a solid gold shuttle. There's something going on that makes them evil, something they are willing to commit genocide on a planetary scale for, but we don't know what.

The big thing for me with the Empire which I dislike though is that they never seem like an Empire. An Empire is one culture, one identity, pushing out and enforcing itself on other people. As such an Empire tends to have a name, it's the Roman Empire, or the British Empire, or the French Empire, because there's that central point that wants to either make everybody else into it, or just rob everybody else for its betterment. As such it made sense that the Imperial Navy was staffed exclusively by posh British white guys, if it was sort of a stand-in for the British Empire. But they don't really express any particular culture past an accent, there's little overt racism or anything (although there is mad amounts of classism, they love to call folks scum, which implies sub-human status). So the Empire in Star Wars being this sort of general purpose bad guy faction feels like a simplification and a misnomer, but then again, I guess it's asking a lot from a series of fairly short and very busy movies to explain itself in detail. Especially as the Expanded Universe was (rightly) binned.

I have overthought the hell out of this. :P

[Femina]

Well that's probably partially on purpose. Star Wars is Science Fantasy more than Science Fiction and perhaps the singular most Black/White storytelling there is almost within its genetic coding (Light side/Dark side) and can be read like a fable. The more complicated a fable gets the less clearly one can read its message and Star Wars isn't usually a story we go to when looking for something overbearingly nuanced (not that there can't be subtlety mind you, just that complexity for complexities sake works against your final product.)

Would Wizard of Oz have been better if the audience couldn't decide who they were rooting for between the wicked witch and Dorthy? Almost certainly not. Complexity has its place in storytelling, and there are places in storytelling where complexity is needless. I believe Star Wars to be of the sort of fantasy where it's best left largely direct.

[Dogfish]

Well that's probably partially on purpose. Star Wars is Science Fantasy more than Science Fiction and perhaps the singular most Black/White storytelling there is almost within its genetic coding (Light side/Dark side) and can be read like a fable. The more complicated a fable gets the less clearly one can read its message and Star Wars isn't usually a story we go to when looking for something overbearingly nuanced (not that there can't be subtlety mind you, just that complexity for complexities sake works against your final product.)

Would Wizard of Oz have been better if the audience couldn't decide who they were rooting for between the wicked witch and Dorthy? Almost certainly not. Complexity has its place in storytelling, and there are places in storytelling where complexity is needless. I believe Star Wars to be of the sort of fantasy where it's best left largely direct.

I agree, but I think Star Wars gets itself mixed up when it has things like Darth Vader suddenly seeing the Light again. I mean, ignoring the prequels because Anakin in those was dire, but even just in the good movies, that whole business was screwed up. I mean, sure, it's your long lost dad, but He Blew Up A Planet. If my deadbeat dad blew up a planet with billions of people on it I'd tell him to go fuck himself. Some degree of shittiness in the name of Just Doing Your Job is forgiveable, like if he worked at the Space DMV and was deliberately a prick all the time, could forgive that. Blowing up a planet? Shit, the only reason I'd want to see his ghost at the end of Jedi is so I could tell him to go fuck himself some more.

[Femina]

Well that's probably partially on purpose. Star Wars is Science Fantasy more than Science Fiction and perhaps the singular most Black/White storytelling there is almost within its genetic coding (Light side/Dark side) and can be read like a fable. The more complicated a fable gets the less clearly one can read its message and Star Wars isn't usually a story we go to when looking for something overbearingly nuanced (not that there can't be subtlety mind you, just that complexity for complexities sake works against your final product.)

Would Wizard of Oz have been better if the audience couldn't decide who they were rooting for between the wicked witch and Dorthy? Almost certainly not. Complexity has its place in storytelling, and there are places in storytelling where complexity is needless. I believe Star Wars to be of the sort of fantasy where it's best left largely direct.

I agree, but I think Star Wars gets itself mixed up when it has things like Darth Vader suddenly seeing the Light again. I mean, ignoring the prequels because Anakin in those was dire, but even just in the good movies, that whole business was screwed up. I mean, sure, it's your long lost dad, but He Blew Up A Planet. If my deadbeat dad blew up a planet with billions of people on it I'd tell him to go fuck himself. Some degree of shittiness in the name of Just Doing Your Job is forgiveable, like if he worked at the Space DMV and was deliberately a prick all the time, could forgive that. Blowing up a planet? Shit, the only reason I'd want to see his ghost at the end of Jedi is so I could tell him to go fuck himself some more.

That's Lucas for you. He wanted to make a film series about a hero with a dark side who is redeemed and instead we got an obviously psychotic murderer. "And not just the men, but the women... and the children! They were like animals, and I slaughtered them lie animals! I HATE THEM!"

How were we supposed to buy that Padme didn't run as fast as she could for the spaceship and run from mr. murder mick children as fast as she possibly could... but instead actually LOVED him? Sure to be 'angry' is to be human. To murder children because your angry is insane Padme! It's INSANE!

[tallyho]

Vader's motivation was Lucas' biggest crime

Anakin:'I've been havin these bad dreams...'
Palpatine:"Tell you what, I can show you how to stop them....you just need to abandon everything you stand for, destroy the existing order of the universe, kill your mentors and slice and dice any children you come across'
Anakin: 'And will that stop the bad dreams?'
Palpatine:' Errr...yes?"
Anakin:'Great! I'll give it a go!'

[sugarcoater]

Perhaps what also contributed was Anakin being constantly referred to as Annie (probably spelled Ani, but sounds like Annie).

[Dazzle1]

Often movie franchises go on to long.

Although I read several novelization ( including Zahn's trilogy that introduced Mara Jade which would have been a far better sequal than the Force awakens and X Wing.) It may have been better for it to end with the magical first trilogy.

[Visitor]

Movie franchises continue as long as they are profitable.

Disney spent $4 billion to get this franchise and as long as they make money it's projected for 4 more movies. Superman reboot and other DC comic films haven't done as well, but they hope to get near or better than break even to what Disney is getting for Marvel films. The Bond films are still going strong after 22 (or 24 depending on how you count them) of them over 50+ years with no end in sight.