Flash bombs at Box Office

[Dazzle1]

https://www.bostonherald.com/2023/06/18 ... -the-gate/

They are making excuses.

But backing Exra Miller as opposed to other to other project was a mistake.

Even before we found what a jerk he is, I thought he was the weakest character and worst actor in Justice League

[brdiy]

Such a shame as I thought it was a good movie. Too much baggage with Ezra + superhero movie fatigue setting in I guess. I actually enjoyed this a lot more than the Black Adam movie.

[Mr. X]

Can't find the spoiler button.

Sadly the producers more than double down on Ezra. It was an OK movie. If the franchise was still going it would be fine but it adds no real continuous story elements. I was also wondering what happened to all the kryptonians in Man of Steel. I know some got sucked into a black hole thing but I didn't think they all did.

[Visitor]

They got too committed to pushing the movie to do the right thing and take the tax loss here and start over. The final twist ending was the third version that they shot and tested as each time the head of studio and DCEU direction changed.

The real news will be next weekend when the box office drop off shows how quickly this sinks into the failure category or whether it can gain an audience.

[sensualbarbarian]

Im happy to see this film bomb. Prob the best thing in it will be Micheal Keaton, just as the best thing in Black Adam was Pierce Brosnans beard. lol. Hopefully James Gunn can do something wth a new DCU.

[Mr. X]

I figure there is probably a whole other movie on the cutting room floor. I SOOO want to see that Nicholas Cage movie. Give me corny spider fight any day.

[Femina]

This movie was doomed for a lot of reasons. My guess is they only put it out TO BEGIN WITH to recoup SOME of the losses of production but.... MAJOR problem factors for making any money off of this were many fold, Ezra Miller choosing to basically offend... EVERYONE regardless of their political end and the film being a continuation of a series everyone knows is already dead do MAJOR damage to anyone's urge to go out to buy a movie ticket.

The major shame is the loss of stuff surrounding 'the Flash' himself. It IS nice to see Michael Keaton's Batman again as a form of 'last hoorah' but I suppose we basically get that anyway.

I think the MAJOR moral of the story is just basically that, if your lead actor goes insane while filming, cut the rope.

[dajinx1]

At least we got some nice final shots of a certain superheroine

[shevek]

Mr. X is right - spoiler button is mysteriously missing.

Didn't get all the way through the movie yet, but in the first half hour, I already noticed:

- Not only is Sasha Calle Latina of course, but *so is Nora Allen*. They even go so far as to virtue signal her singing a randomly injected Latin pop song in case you didn't get it from the accent. The gingercides continue.

- Incredibly bad cut-and-paste CGI in the Not-Flashpoint scene where Barry glimpses a bunch of the DC Multiverses. They must have run out of money and used a cheap production house or something.

- It looks like there's no real villain in this. Zod is going to be incidental, and the main event is Barry fighting himself, I think? Also they don't actually do Flashpoint, I guess. I don't remember anything in Flashpoint about a can of tomatoes.

To be honest, I didn't think this was going to do *worse* than both Black Adam *and* Eternals. I'll get through the rest of it within a couple days, and hopefully some sexy peril and fights with Calle will make it worth the time.

[Dazzle1]

Can't find the spoiler button.

Sadly the producers more than double down on Ezra. It was an OK movie. If the franchise was still going it would be fine but it adds no real continuous story elements. I was also wondering what happened to all the kryptonians in Man of Steel. I know some got sucked into a black hole thing but I didn't think they all did.

2 questions

1. Should they have gone with the BatGirl movie instead?

2. If Miller had not played up the Binary card, would the have scrapped the movie (I don't care about his gender identiy). in this case I do think it is a valid question

[Mr. X]

what's the "binary" card?

I would add it failed because its not a hero movie. There's not really a hero tale. Its mostly member berries and you really have to know all the past characters to understand it. Watch it raw and it doesn't tell a heroic story. imho

[MightyHypnotic]

Mr. X is right - spoiler button is mysteriously missing.

Didn't get all the way through the movie yet, but in the first half hour, I already noticed:

- Not only is Sasha Calle Latina of course, but *so is Nora Allen*. They even go so far as to virtue signal her singing a randomly injected Latin pop song in case you didn't get it from the accent. The gingercides continue.

- Incredibly bad cut-and-paste CGI in the Not-Flashpoint scene where Barry glimpses a bunch of the DC Multiverses. They must have run out of money and used a cheap production house or something.

- It looks like there's no real villain in this. Zod is going to be incidental, and the main event is Barry fighting himself, I think? Also they don't actually do Flashpoint, I guess. I don't remember anything in Flashpoint about a can of tomatoes.

To be honest, I didn't think this was going to do *worse* than both Black Adam *and* Eternals. I'll get through the rest of it within a couple days, and hopefully some sexy peril and fights with Calle will make it worth the time.

The spoiler button is missing because I don't think we should keep secrets from each other.


No, it's only temporary, it's coming back today.

[Dazzle1]

what's the "binary" card?

I would add it failed because its not a hero movie. There's not really a hero tale. Its mostly member berries and you really have to know all the past characters to understand it. Watch it raw and it doesn't tell a heroic story. imho

When Miller started getting into trouble he played the gender identity card.

Just compare what he did to what Johnny Depp was falsely accused of and they kicked him off Pirates of the Caribeen and Fanatastic Beasts

[Mr. X]

- It looks like there's no real villain in this. Zod is going to be incidental, and the main event is Barry fighting himself, I think? Also they don't actually do Flashpoint, I guess. I don't remember anything in Flashpoint about a can of tomatoes.

Yes there's no heroes journey. I've noticed a trend in which the villains have no real substance to them. Not even sure what Zod's motivation is here cause he shows up on a planet that grants him God like powers and he's like MEH given me the kryptonian sperm (which supergirl has inside her).

At least he had substance in MoS.

Black Adam villain was also hollow. Same with Kang. Same with Namor. And the threats are fairly hollow. In this movie they literally fight on a flat plane desert as opposed to a city, probably cause the CGI cost to do another wrecked city would be enormous. This movie seems a lot more like watch Flash act stupid and a romp into the DC franchise.

[Visitor]

I like how the comic strip Intelligent Life called it the Michael Keaton Batman movie with Flash in it.

[Mr. X]

I like how the comic strip Intelligent Life called it the Michael Keaton Batman movie with Flash in it.

Pretty Much. He was good. And his arc was good. Last grand stand as the Batman.

[SHL]

Such a shame as I thought it was a good movie. Too much baggage with Ezra + superhero movie fatigue setting in I guess. I actually enjoyed this a lot more than the Black Adam movie.

Guardians 3 and Spider-Man Across the spider verse prove that ‘superhero movie fatigue’ isn’t a real thing. Just shitty movie fatigue is all

Despite the Flash getting box offices bombed and the range of criticism its receiving - I enjoyed it. I laughed out loud at multiple points. The end of the film is perplexing, ironically I think the Flash tv shows first season finale did the time travel thing better.

But I don’t need every film to be amazing. Some of my favorite films are shitty movies. There’s this recent sentiment that all supehero movies need to be the ‘citizen Kane’ of the modern era and I just don’t agree with it. I think it’s funny that the Fast and Furious franchise went into outer space. I think Michael Bays Transformers films are fun dumb spectacles too watch and amazing to turn up the surround sound for

Even Nolan couldn’t land the finale for his film, I went into Flash with low expectations. I loved Batman and Supergirl in the film. I don’t like the Flash as a character, so I was surprised to enjoy his solo film.

[shevek]

Two things:

At least three comic book writers who should have been in the credits of The Flash were left out:
Mark Waid (Speed Force)
Ethan Van Sciver (Rebirth content)
Grant Morrison (Multiverse)

Most egregious is actually Mark Waid (not that I'm a fan of his at this point) because he actually created the Speed Force which is used in the movie
as the dimension with the terrible CGI where he sees all the alternate timelines.

Also, unless this Youtube clip below is lying (?) there were more peril and violence scenes for Sasha Calle which were cut that would have made the film an R-rated Snyder-ish movie.

Apparently, in The Flash, Supergirl is held prisoner in a silo and broken out, and she is very violent because she does not have sympathy for Earthlings, not having grown up among them like Superman did.

[Maskripper]

IF the movie will bomb at the box office can be said in some weeks, not now.
What can be said is that the first week didn't meet the expectations they had.

I have seen very good reviews for this one.
Will watch it in the cinema later today.
SO excited to see my favorite Batman in the cinema.
Pretty sure I will make my personal Michael Keaton/Batman cut in some months.

[Dazzle1]

IF the movie will bomb at the box office can be said in some weeks, not now.
What can be said is that the first week didn't meet the expectations they had.

I have seen very good reviews for this one.
Will watch it in the cinema later today.
SO excited to see my favorite Batman in the cinema.
Pretty sure I will make my personal Michael Keaton/Batman cut in some months.

I have seen several bad ones.

RT, LA Times and Clownfish to name 3

[heroinehunter]

1. Fatigue - Superhero movie fatigue is very real. I no longer get excited about, nor want to see, superhero films. Marvel or DC Comics. (Blue Beetle? Kraven the Hunter? *heavy sigh* When is Squirrel Girl gonna get her 2 hour feature?)
2. The Actor - No one has any sympathy for an actor that acts like a jerk. It's a turn-off. Always be humble (or try to be).
3. The Story - I know the 'Flashpoint' storyline. I read the books and I saw the animated film done years ago. So there are no surprises really except for cameos. But even in regards to cameos, meh.....
4. Movie Price and Paying for Streaming. A friend asked me why I didn't go to the movies to see Avatar: The Way of Water or Ant-Man : Quantum-mania. I told him I feel like I already bought the ticket because I have Disney +. That one subscription is roughly $120 for the year. I feel like I'm 'double-dipping' if I were to see the film in the theater when we all know it will be streaming in two-three short months. I went to the movies a couple of weeks ago to see 'Spider-verse' and found out that the local Regal Cinemas jacked up the ticket prices to the point where it's no longer feasible to go for what is essentially just 2 hours of entertainment. A Monday afternoon matinee was $11.25. Add in one small drink and you're now at $20 for one person. Imagine being a parent wanting to take your 2 kids to see just 2 hours of entertainment - you're looking at nearly $50. I have bills and rent to pay first. Wait just 3 months and it will be on a streaming service. Watch it with the entire family in the comfort of your home.

[HeroPerilFanatic]

Here is why I skipped out on this movie, despite Michael Keaton’s return as Batman.

1. I was never a fan of the rushed poorly thought out Synderverse. They lost me way back during Man of Steel. Why support a remnant of a cinematic universe I care nothing for?

2. Ezra Miller! What a terrible casting choice for Barry Allen! He is weird enough and has caused enough problems that there are a lot of people that want nothing to do with the franchise. I am one of those people that will refuse to watch anything starring that weirdo.

3. Sasha Calle as Supergirl! I am not a fan of the androgynous look. She looks like a teenage boy in the trailer and all the production stills. Sorry but that is not Kara Zor-El! Should have called her something else. And screw this recent trend of race swapping characters for the sake of diversity and inclusion. Growing up, I never once wished Indiana Jones or James Bond were Mexican just so I could feel complete.

[Bronson881]

I was looking for Sasha Calle as Supergirl myself. If she was held in confinement by the government she would be most likely to join Zod not fight him. She was not raised as Superman was.

I hope that if they do a Supergirl movie or even series, that Sasha Calle is in the role.

I liked the movie myself although I do have questions that will never be answered like who killed Barry's mom and how does his saving her cause so much to change? I get that with her dead and his father in prison, his future is changed and is why is an intern at Starr Labs.

Anyway, I enjoyed the movie.

[shevek]

So, yes: I finished the rest of the movie this morning (gotta love those industrious camguys from India!). It's a mess.

Unlike Candice Patton, the actress who plays Iris West in the movie has absolutely no appeal and looks very average. Dumb pop culture references.

The highlights are simple: Sasha in the tight costume and plenty of defeated still shots. A few cool cameos (Helen Slater, Nic Cage). Antje's return as Faora (very little screen time, though). Michael Keaton bringing a bit of Pittsburgh class to the screen. That's about it. Certainly not enough to be worth two movie tickets and the parking fee and the popcorn and sodas.

Yes, Bronson, it's not clear why if she's held in Russian captivity, they should have brainwashed her and made her into a weapon, a la Red Son. There's no real reason for her to ally with Flash and Batman while not even knowing them.

Let it bomb, and let them write it off.

[Visitor]

I'm waiting a year until it appears in Walmart's bargain bin for under $5. At least It'll have deleted scenes and extras to enjoy that might be better.

[Mr. X]

I was looking for Sasha Calle as Supergirl myself. If she was held in confinement by the government she would be most likely to join Zod not fight him. She was not raised as Superman was.

I hope that if they do a Supergirl movie or even series, that Sasha Calle is in the role.

I liked the movie myself although I do have questions that will never be answered like who killed Barry's mom and how does his saving her cause so much to change? I get that with her dead and his father in prison, his future is changed and is why is an intern at Starr Labs.

Anyway, I enjoyed the movie.

The idea is Supergirl was always aligned against Zod but yeah she's abused and tortured by humans then magically wants to save them. But in the comic and the animation it was the same way. Clark is kept in a vault and saved by Flash and Cyborg and Batman and sees not all humans are bad.

As for the time line. The reason everything changes is explained by Bruce Wayne. In a deterministic system if you move one point on the line, everything previously has to recalculate to meet that point. The time line doesn't branch, it recalculates from the start of time to arrive at that point.

But all this does is destroy anything of meaning. Nothing anyone does has meaning since its replaceable by an infinite universe of altered timelines.

But we deserve that Nicholas Cage Superman vs the monster spider!!

[Mr. X]

[shevek]

But all this does is destroy anything of meaning.

That's kind of the idea nowadays, isn't it? Multiverse stories are convenient in a world where the Overton Window is constantly shifting.

And yes, that deleted scenes vid you've posted is interesting. However, it already exists in the form of a paragraph called "Reshoots" on the film's Wikipedia page.

You really see how much Sasha Calle was fashioned to look boyish when you see her shot up close.

[Femina]

I was looking for Sasha Calle as Supergirl myself. If she was held in confinement by the government she would be most likely to join Zod not fight him. She was not raised as Superman was.

I hope that if they do a Supergirl movie or even series, that Sasha Calle is in the role.

I liked the movie myself although I do have questions that will never be answered like who killed Barry's mom and how does his saving her cause so much to change? I get that with her dead and his father in prison, his future is changed and is why is an intern at Starr Labs.

Anyway, I enjoyed the movie.

The idea is Supergirl was always aligned against Zod but yeah she's abused and tortured by humans then magically wants to save them. But in the comic and the animation it was the same way. Clark is kept in a vault and saved by Flash and Cyborg and Batman and sees not all humans are bad.

As for the time line. The reason everything changes is explained by Bruce Wayne. In a deterministic system if you move one point on the line, everything previously has to recalculate to meet that point. The time line doesn't branch, it recalculates from the start of time to arrive at that point.

But all this does is destroy anything of meaning. Nothing anyone does has meaning since its replaceable by an infinite universe of altered timelines.

But we deserve that Nicholas Cage Superman vs the monster spider!!

xD Jon Peters and his Giant Spiders!

That's the multiverse sickness at its core. 'Destroys meaning' It really doesn't even matter if it's a connective multiverse with static universes inside of it... it still allows the writers to 'escape' plot threads by just switching universes. A few exceptions to the multiverse issue exist wherein the 'entire franchise' sets out that way (Everything, Everywhere All at Once. Into the Spider-Verse) and even though there is a multiverse, the story ITSELF is still 'enclosed'... but the 'DC' universe and the MCU should never EVER have touched time travel and alternate universes as a 'canonical' element to the franchises. ALL it can do is erode substance for cheap cameos and silliness.

I don't find it a coincidence that 'Superhero Fatigue' as they call it set in exactly as the multiverse started making everything that came before it feel less impactful (and particularly shit films, I'm looking at you Doctor Strange Metaverse of Mundane and Thor: Jokes and Blunders). I sort of feel like if Marvel had just kept trucking along in a static universe building on top of it, they'd have A: been forced to write better stories just by proxy of needing to be more careful about plot holes and loops, and B: the audience would stop feeling more and more dethatched from the universe. Take Black Panther 2 for example, it's the only film in the last grouping of phases to take itself seriously, ignore multiverses and just 'build' off the MCU as it was... and it was easily the best film of the recent batch.

In general I think if you make a GOOD movie, regardless of the genre, people will enjoy it and extend their warrenty of interest your way. I think it's 'Shit films and Multiverse' Fatigue more than it is 'superhero' fatigue, and then the REST of it just comes down to them making films about ever less and less relevant superheroes that have ever smaller and smaller fanbases to start with.

[Mr. X]

One thing I've noticed also with the newer movies is the heroes don't really save anyone except a little exposition like the baby scene in Flash. They wreck stuff, fight, but not really just save common people nor really include common people.

Best scene was Avengers where that old man in Germany stands up to Loki. "There are always men like you".

[sugarcoater]

My guess is the multiverse concept is primarily being used in the superhero movies to allow for a smoother transition to new actors taking on the iconic roles. In the standalone movies like The Batman, the transition is less jarring; in the ongoing storylines, it’s too distracting.

[Maskripper]

So, watched the movie in the cinema.
Yeah, it was ok, but nothing more ....for me.
It was GREAT to see Keaton again in the suit along with the iconic Danny Elfman score.
Some nice cameos that surprised me :-)
Also some good action scenes despite weirdly-bad CGI here and there.
Still don't get that this CGI in some scenes was so bad "intentionally" according to the director. To achieve what?
#creepybabies

But I have two main issues with the movie.
A) Way too much comedy
It's a bizarre mixture between drama, action, and comedy. Doesn't work for me... like in the last live-action Spider-man.
The "normal" Barry Allen (in the movies) is already annoying enough but the second one is a complete disaster.
A total clown that has to crack a (mostly bad) joke every 5 seconds.... as if he thinks he will drop dead otherwise.
He is so totally unlikeable to me.
(like Peter Parker's best friend in the last movie)
Some comedy elements work fine here.... but it's just WAY too much overall.

B) Multiverse and time travel shenanigans
Please... no more of it.

Also, just like with the last Spider-man live-action movie.... the hero and his insanely irresponsible behavior is the whole reason for the story....
#morons

----
Now I am even angrier that we seemingly never see Keaton's other new appearance as Batman.
#ReleasetheBatgirlmovie

[Dazzle1]

Here is why I skipped out on this movie, despite Michael Keaton’s return as Batman.

1. I was never a fan of the rushed poorly thought out Synderverse. They lost me way back during Man of Steel. Why support a remnant of a cinematic universe I care nothing for?

2. Ezra Miller! What a terrible casting choice for Barry Allen! He is weird enough and has caused enough problems that there are a lot of people that want nothing to do with the franchise. I am one of those people that will refuse to watch anything starring that weirdo.

3. Sasha Calle as Supergirl! I am not a fan of the androgynous look. She looks like a teenage boy in the trailer and all the production stills. Sorry but that is not Kara Zor-El! Should have called her something else. And screw this recent trend of race swapping characters for the sake of diversity and inclusion. Growing up, I never once wished Indiana Jones or James Bond were Mexican just so I could feel complete.

----------------

From a business point of view it made no sense to keep Miller. For being difficult on the set and a perfectionist Edward Norton was dropped from the MCU. I gave the Johnny Depp comparison earlier

When you think of Justice League you think, Gal Gadot, Ben Afflect and Jason Mamoa, you never thought Ezra Miller

[shh]

Here is why I skipped out on this movie, despite Michael Keaton’s return as Batman.
3. Sasha Calle as Supergirl! I am not a fan of the androgynous look. She looks like a teenage boy in the trailer and all the production stills. Sorry but that is not Kara Zor-El! Should have called her something else. And screw this recent trend of race swapping characters for the sake of diversity and inclusion. Growing up, I never once wished Indiana Jones or James Bond were Mexican just so I could feel complete.

I have heard that it is so bad, that even Michael Keaton as Batman couldn't save it. And that really is saying alot...

Yes, more needs to be said about that third point. If they are gonna to cut a females hair off, and put them in a one piece sexless unitard, why not just give us a male super hero?

Captain Marvel (the move)? Cut off her beautiful long hair, and had her in a one piece sexless unitard. They made her look like Gozer on Ghostbusters essentiallly........albeit a "prettier" Gozer..

Supergirl (the show)? Same thing, cut her hair into a stupid cut, dropped the skirt, black tights, and boots and placed her into a sexless one piece unitard!!!

IF they are going to make a female superhero into essentially a male superhero.........WHY not just have male superheros then?


And this is beyond the scope of this thread, but I thought they had way too many crossovers and team ups on the Supergirl and Flash show.........and way too many characters just like them...............EVERYONE IS A SPEEDSTER!!! EVERYONE IS A KRYPTONIAN OR WORSE!!!!

[Femina]

From a business point of view it made no sense to keep Miller. For being difficult on the set and a perfectionist Edward Norton was dropped from the MCU. I gave the Johnny Depp comparison earlier

When you think of Justice League you think, Gal Gadot, Ben Afflect and Jason Mamoa, you never thought Ezra Miller

This is the baffling thing I know. There's the whole deal where he/they? claims non-binary... which, fine? I don't mean to imply that they CAN'T POSSIBLY be Gender binary... it's just irrelevant but additionally the circumstances are suspect because it was done so after the misogyny/abuse allegations cropped up as a DEFENSE.... I guess Ezra Miller somehow feels there's a DIFFERENCE between Misogynism relative to your gender.... but whereas before Ezra was being declared a misogynist male... they're STILL an abusive MISOGYNIST regardless of being non-binary!!! That doesn't magically change! I don't care if you're gay, bi, sis, man, woman, Martian or the Underminer! If you're running around drinking yourself stupid and abusing women, or fucking anyone for that matter, you're a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to be in a station of prominence and influence! For a time they basically had Johnny Depp BLACKLISTED for less! Is Ezra Miller the Hypnotoad!? How are they being considered for Gunn's DC universe!?!?!?

[Mr. X]

Supergirl (the show)? Same thing, cut her hair into a stupid cut, dropped the skirt, black tights, and boots and placed her into a sexless one piece unitard!!!

For that show the solid suit was done cause she was pregnant and the suit made it easier to remove the baby bump. Also they shoot in Canada and it gets fairly cold there.

But yeah I don't see what people are so scared of. I thought we lived in a more enlightened era. This "cover the women up" reminds me of the old moral majority days. Plus women and girls are showing skin all over the internet and OF. And they have no issue with shirtless jacked dudes so not sure what the issue is.

I remember Lynda Carter in an interview even saying "what are women so scared of"?

[lionbadger]

I have a slightly different view

I think DCEU films by this stage have a bad reputation, even after aquaman and shazam they are percieved as dark and miserable and for angsty teen boys - that doesn't translate well into a blockbuster being led by a side character

the macro situation is different, inflation is taking its toll on the consumer's purse and cinema is expensive versus streaming (pixar has misfired and the new transformers should be doing better than it is) - be interesting to see how the next marvel does

the film wasn't well marketed, I was surprised when I heard it had come out

[Dazzle1]

From a business point of view it made no sense to keep Miller. For being difficult on the set and a perfectionist Edward Norton was dropped from the MCU. I gave the Johnny Depp comparison earlier

When you think of Justice League you think, Gal Gadot, Ben Afflect and Jason Mamoa, you never thought Ezra Miller

This is the baffling thing I know. There's the whole deal where he/they? claims non-binary... which, fine? I don't mean to imply that they CAN'T POSSIBLY be Gender binary... it's just irrelevant but additionally the circumstances are suspect because it was done so after the misogyny/abuse allegations cropped up as a DEFENSE.... I guess Ezra Miller somehow feels there's a DIFFERENCE between Misogynism relative to your gender.... but whereas before Ezra was being declared a misogynist male... they're STILL an abusive MISOGYNIST regardless of being non-binary!!! That doesn't magically change! I don't care if you're gay, bi, sis, man, woman, Martian or the Underminer! If you're running around drinking yourself stupid and abusing women, or fucking anyone for that matter, you're a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to be in a station of prominence and influence! For a time they basically had Johnny Depp BLACKLISTED for less! Is Ezra Miller the Hypnotoad!? How are they being considered for Gunn's DC universe!?!?!?

That why I said Miller played the Binary Card, he and the producers thought that would deflect the critics from calling him to be replaced.

In the case of Depp they blacklisted him for a false accussation, he won the lawsuit against Amber Heard

[Femina]

From a business point of view it made no sense to keep Miller. For being difficult on the set and a perfectionist Edward Norton was dropped from the MCU. I gave the Johnny Depp comparison earlier

When you think of Justice League you think, Gal Gadot, Ben Afflect and Jason Mamoa, you never thought Ezra Miller

This is the baffling thing I know. There's the whole deal where he/they? claims non-binary... which, fine? I don't mean to imply that they CAN'T POSSIBLY be Gender binary... it's just irrelevant but additionally the circumstances are suspect because it was done so after the misogyny/abuse allegations cropped up as a DEFENSE.... I guess Ezra Miller somehow feels there's a DIFFERENCE between Misogynism relative to your gender.... but whereas before Ezra was being declared a misogynist male... they're STILL an abusive MISOGYNIST regardless of being non-binary!!! That doesn't magically change! I don't care if you're gay, bi, sis, man, woman, Martian or the Underminer! If you're running around drinking yourself stupid and abusing women, or fucking anyone for that matter, you're a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to be in a station of prominence and influence! For a time they basically had Johnny Depp BLACKLISTED for less! Is Ezra Miller the Hypnotoad!? How are they being considered for Gunn's DC universe!?!?!?

That why I said Miller played the Binary Card, he and the producers thought that would deflect the critics from calling him to be replaced.

In the case of Depp they blacklisted him for a false accussation, he won the lawsuit against Amber Heard

I mean... I just don't care? I don't care if someone who is or isn't Non-Binary asks to be referred to as They/Them/He or She. In my opinion it doesn't matter what I think or what I believe the 'reason' behind it is, that's how the person asked me to refer to them so it's how I will, just like, you know? I like to be respectful to people's direct wishes as much as possible. My problem is IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE YOU NOT MISOGINIST if you're abusing women. It doesn't CHANGE that you're drinking insane quantities and attacking people when drunk! All those things are STILL HAPPENING regardless of your gender identity! You're STILL a lousy drunk Misogynist Miller no matter how you choose to identify!!!!!

How the fuck is James Gunn thinking of KEEPING the Flash around as the sole carryover from the DCEU!? They're the MOST PROBLEMATIC part!

[Mr. X]

In the case of Depp they blacklisted him for a false accussation, he won the lawsuit against Amber Heard

And isn't Heard still in AM2?

[Mr. X]

How the fuck is James Gunn thinking of KEEPING the Flash around as the sole carryover from the DCEU!? They're the MOST PROBLEMATIC part!

MCU also has Ant Man as the linch pin of the MCU now though Rudd isn't in any trouble,

[Dazzle1]

From a business point of view it made no sense to keep Miller. For being difficult on the set and a perfectionist Edward Norton was dropped from the MCU. I gave the Johnny Depp comparison earlier

When you think of Justice League you think, Gal Gadot, Ben Afflect and Jason Mamoa, you never thought Ezra Miller

This is the baffling thing I know. There's the whole deal where he/they? claims non-binary... which, fine? I don't mean to imply that they CAN'T POSSIBLY be Gender binary... it's just irrelevant but additionally the circumstances are suspect because it was done so after the misogyny/abuse allegations cropped up as a DEFENSE.... I guess Ezra Miller somehow feels there's a DIFFERENCE between Misogynism relative to your gender.... but whereas before Ezra was being declared a misogynist male... they're STILL an abusive MISOGYNIST regardless of being non-binary!!! That doesn't magically change! I don't care if you're gay, bi, sis, man, woman, Martian or the Underminer! If you're running around drinking yourself stupid and abusing women, or fucking anyone for that matter, you're a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to be in a station of prominence and influence! For a time they basically had Johnny Depp BLACKLISTED for less! Is Ezra Miller the Hypnotoad!? How are they being considered for Gunn's DC universe!?!?!?

That why I said Miller played the Binary Card, he and the producers thought that would deflect the critics from calling him to be replaced.

In the case of Depp they blacklisted him for a false accussation, he won the lawsuit against Amber Heard

I mean... I just don't care? I don't care if someone who is or isn't Non-Binary asks to be referred to as They/Them/He or She. In my opinion it doesn't matter what I think or what I believe the 'reason' behind it is, that's how the person asked me to refer to them so it's how I will, just like, you know? I like to be respectful to people's direct wishes as much as possible. My problem is IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE YOU NOT MISOGINIST if you're abusing women. It doesn't CHANGE that you're drinking insane quantities and attacking people when drunk! All those things are STILL HAPPENING regardless of your gender identity! You're STILL a lousy drunk Misogynist Miller no matter how you choose to identify!!!!!

How the fuck is James Gunn thinking of KEEPING the Flash around as the sole carryover from the DCEU!? They're the MOST PROBLEMATIC part!

But there is a precentage of vocal people who do, (not either of us)

[Femina]

From a business point of view it made no sense to keep Miller. For being difficult on the set and a perfectionist Edward Norton was dropped from the MCU. I gave the Johnny Depp comparison earlier

When you think of Justice League you think, Gal Gadot, Ben Afflect and Jason Mamoa, you never thought Ezra Miller

This is the baffling thing I know. There's the whole deal where he/they? claims non-binary... which, fine? I don't mean to imply that they CAN'T POSSIBLY be Gender binary... it's just irrelevant but additionally the circumstances are suspect because it was done so after the misogyny/abuse allegations cropped up as a DEFENSE.... I guess Ezra Miller somehow feels there's a DIFFERENCE between Misogynism relative to your gender.... but whereas before Ezra was being declared a misogynist male... they're STILL an abusive MISOGYNIST regardless of being non-binary!!! That doesn't magically change! I don't care if you're gay, bi, sis, man, woman, Martian or the Underminer! If you're running around drinking yourself stupid and abusing women, or fucking anyone for that matter, you're a piece of shit who doesn't deserve to be in a station of prominence and influence! For a time they basically had Johnny Depp BLACKLISTED for less! Is Ezra Miller the Hypnotoad!? How are they being considered for Gunn's DC universe!?!?!?

That why I said Miller played the Binary Card, he and the producers thought that would deflect the critics from calling him to be replaced.

In the case of Depp they blacklisted him for a false accussation, he won the lawsuit against Amber Heard

I mean... I just don't care? I don't care if someone who is or isn't Non-Binary asks to be referred to as They/Them/He or She. In my opinion it doesn't matter what I think or what I believe the 'reason' behind it is, that's how the person asked me to refer to them so it's how I will, just like, you know? I like to be respectful to people's direct wishes as much as possible. My problem is IT STILL DOESN'T MAKE YOU NOT MISOGINIST if you're abusing women. It doesn't CHANGE that you're drinking insane quantities and attacking people when drunk! All those things are STILL HAPPENING regardless of your gender identity! You're STILL a lousy drunk Misogynist Miller no matter how you choose to identify!!!!!

How the fuck is James Gunn thinking of KEEPING the Flash around as the sole carryover from the DCEU!? They're the MOST PROBLEMATIC part!

But there is a precentage of vocal people who do, (not either of us)

Oh I see what you're saying. Yes, In terms of viewership I imagine there is at least a 'little' bit of that... though I've not seen an enormous degree of decent evidence that such things impact profit margins substantially. MAYBE if it bled INTO the film but Berry Allen isn't being redubbed Non-Binary, it's JUST the actor... and nowhere have I read any 'go woke or go broke!' threads about The Flash so I haven't been given the impression it's a hugely political film... I doubt that's TO large a hit on the films box office returns.

[Mr. X]

But there is a precentage of vocal people who do, (not either of us)

And I wonder who at this point. Are the corporate higher ups just the tail end of a slinky dog and they haven't caught up yet? Who is interested in ESG and DEI scores? Seems the Chinese are for some reason. In any event Hollywood has some odd criteria/check lists for movies.

[Femina]

But there is a precentage of vocal people who do, (not either of us)

And I wonder who at this point. Are the corporate higher ups just the tail end of a slinky dog and they haven't caught up yet? Who is interested in ESG and DEI scores?

Scientists, psychologists... economists uh.... politicians... the list goes on and on.

But let's not get off track here. None of that shit EXCUSES you to abuse people or attack people when you're drunk... or rob people... and Miller's doing it all!

[Mr. X]

And they dump Cavil.

[lionbadger]

Who is interested in ESG and DEI scores?

Investors are and you have mandatory non financial reporting regulations coming in requiring audits of your ESG claims from 2025. Governments like it because they can shout "free trade" while slapping carbon adjustment tariffs on goods from cheap labour nations. I would imagine studios raising money to make a movie have to have it in mind

[Mr. X]

Who is interested in ESG and DEI scores?

Investors are and you have mandatory non financial reporting regulations coming in requiring audits of your ESG claims from 2025. Governments like it because they can shout "free trade" while slapping carbon adjustment tariffs on goods from cheap labour nations. I would imagine studios raising money to make a movie have to have it in mind

Nasdaq also requires companies to have high scores to remain listed.

[Dazzle1]

I don't want this thread to get too political which is why I was hesitant to bring up that Ezra and the movie producers used his gender identity to keep the Flash movie going with him.

But in my opinion his actions should have got him blacklisted from the entetainment industry

[DonShip]

I don't want this thread to get too political which is why I was hesitant to bring up that Ezra and the movie producers used his gender identity to keep the Flash movie going with him.

But in my opinion his actions should have got him blacklisted from the entetainment industry

I agree. His celebrity saved him from prison.