Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

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GeekyPornCritic
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Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Hi everyone,

I would love to get everyone's insight on this especially if you purchase adult content. In recent years, there has been a surge of models saying it is wrong for customers to be critical of their looks and customers need to keep their opinions to themselves. I understand it is very a sensitive topic to talk about a person's body. It never feels good when someone says they think you are unattractive.

However, this is the sex industry. Models are selling their images in adult content. A model's good looks are part of the main attraction in any strip club, porn video, SHIP fetish videos, etc. If I think a model is unattractive, then I just won't buy the video. I am voting with my dollar. The producer may not fully know why I'm disinterested in the video. The story, costumes, and fetishes may be great ideas, but the model ruins the movie for me.

Is it wrong for me to say I won't buy the movie because the model is unattractive? After all, her sex appeal is part of the product. It is suppose to be one of the top selling points. How does a potential customer voice his or her opinion on what models that they prefer without being considered rude? Is it wrong to say a model is below average for this industry?

I use to join mainstream sites. Sometimes I would say this model is not my type, and the site's owners would delete my comments. Was I wrong for voicing my opinion on a product that I purchased? Again, I am customer and this produce is selling sex videos. The purpose is to have sexual enjoyment from porn videos.

Silencing customers is not a solution. It makes people upset when a company from any industry from retail, music, movies tell its customers to shut up and be thankful. We are paying customers or potential customers. It is disrespectful to tell customers that their opinion has no value. It turns people away.

Of course sexuality is not black and white. We all have different attractions, desires, fantasies, and needs. 50 guys will like this porntar, and another 50 guys will be turned off by this pornstar. It isn't a personal attack. Nobody fantasizes of being with someone who turns them off. That's reality.

Should we voice our opinions if we think models are not top quality for adult content? Should we not have standards? I think for the most part that we would agree this community would be up in arms if Rosie O’Donnell was an adult model and appeared in SHIP movies.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by lionbadger »

I don't see a problem with someone saying "I like X she has a great look and blondes/brunettes/redheads crank my starter motor"

I do see a problem with "urgh, I'm not buying that video because X is in it and she's a hideous moose"

I accept that things are a bit less civilized in the colonies and just being a dick about someone is not as frowned upon as it is elsewhere but, you know, just don't buy what you don't like. Don't write a thesis on the subject of what would have metophorically made you buy the video if the actress was different and the plot had been tweaked and your job wasn't being offshored to bangladesh (it's a country in asia, the continent of asia not 'misc china lookin asia', used to be part of india until we noticed it wasn't nailed down). I've kinda wandered off the point here and honestly I would never read this far into a post before making a tongue in cheek knee jerk response so yeah, general post, not actually a response to anything but the headline OP and not a comment on GPC's parentage, schooling or asian geography.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by swampy170 »

Stating you're not into a certain element, say, BBW is entirely acceptable.

To direct that criticism directly at a model personally is not ok.

For example, saying someone's put on a bit too much weight - so you're not going to purchase a video. That's simply imflamatory, and has no merit as a criticism.

Voting with your wallet is entirely acceptable, and will tell the producer everything they need to know about your thoughts on a performer - to personally insult them is crass.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by tallyho »

You have to bare in mind these people (and that might come as a shock to some, they ARE people) are trying to earn a living.

Making crass statements like 'she's ugly' or 'she's fat' can directly have an influence on their livelihood and their employability for future productions

Some people might like overly large breasts or rotund women but if possible future employers see those kind of attributes with derogatory comments attached then they may think twice about giving those models a job.

At the end of the day its sales that should govern their career not some guy or girl who had a rough day and decided to bitch about someone because they don't like their body shape.

Its a tough world out there and this is a very hard industry. Just look at the tragic cases of suicide or drug abuse that occur, you dont know what state of mind someone might be in and having someone criticise you because you dont match their notion of beauty might be the straw that breaks the camels back.

There's not huge money in this for the majority of producers and models - they get by. If you are paying $30 for a vid and that money has to go to C4S,(OR any hosting site or personal site web maintenance etc), paypal/payment method, editors, producers, actors, make up guy, sound guy, lighting guy, special effects guy, costumes, script writers, props, make up itself, sound equipment, camera equipment - you have to sell a HELL OF A LOT of them to make any serious money.

Anything, comments wise, that affects someone's ability to earn a living should be avoided. Its fine to say 'I wasn't a fan of her acting' or 'I prefer model X in the role' but don't say 'she's got a huge nose' or 'she is long in the tooth'. Let poor sales weed out the models you don't like from the industry


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Stating you're not into a certain element, say, BBW is entirely acceptable.

To direct that criticism directly at a model personally is not ok.

For example, saying someone's put on a bit too much weight - so you're not going to purchase a video. That's simply imflamatory, and has no merit as a criticism.

Voting with your wallet is entirely acceptable, and will tell the producer everything they need to know about your thoughts on a performer - to personally insult them is crass.
Voting with your wallet does not tell the producer everything. Sure it says you are not interested in the movie, but it fails to give an explanation. For example, I am a fan of Model X as I think she is a wonderful model. However, I do not purchase any gonzo movies with her. I do not like gonzo movies. It would be foolish for a producer to assume I dislike Model X because I did not buy the video. Model X is not the reason behind my decision. The genre is the reason.

Why is criticizing a model wrong? What if I like the element of a slender white woman with big tits, but this model still isn't my type because of other features such as voice, face, and age (senior citizen)? Am I suppose to remain quite?

Let's say for example a SHIP company books a senior citizen/grandmother type model as Supergirl. Would it be wrong for a person to say this model does not fit the genre? How is that not valid criticism?

Saying a model turns you off is a merit as criticism. Porn's purpose is to turn people on to whatever floats their boats. If 800 out of 1,000 potential customers are turned off by a model for any reason, then that is a valid criticism.

Even if you say "I'm not into BBW", that's still criticizing the model for being overweight. You're just indirectly calling her fat.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Dazzle1 »

Hi everyone,

I would love to get everyone's insight on this especially if you purchase adult content. In recent years, there has been a surge of models saying it is wrong for customers to be critical of their looks and customers need to keep their opinions to themselves. I understand it is very a sensitive topic to talk about a person's body. It never feels good when someone says they think you are unattractive.

However, this is the sex industry. Models are selling their images in adult content. A model's good looks are part of the main attraction in any strip club, porn video, SHIP fetish videos, etc. If I think a model is unattractive, then I just won't buy the video. I am voting with my dollar. The producer may not fully know why I'm disinterested in the video. The story, costumes, and fetishes may be great ideas, but the model ruins the movie for me.

Is it wrong for me to say I won't buy the movie because the model is unattractive? After all, her sex appeal is part of the product. It is suppose to be one of the top selling points. How does a potential customer voice his or her opinion on what models that they prefer without being considered rude? Is it wrong to say a model is below average for this industry?

I use to join mainstream sites. Sometimes I would say this model is not my type, and the site's owners would delete my comments. Was I wrong for voicing my opinion on a product that I purchased? Again, I am customer and this produce is selling sex videos. The purpose is to have sexual enjoyment from porn videos.

Silencing customers is not a solution. It makes people upset when a company from any industry from retail, music, movies tell its customers to shut up and be thankful. We are paying customers or potential customers. It is disrespectful to tell customers that their opinion has no value. It turns people away.

Of course sexuality is not black and white. We all have different attractions, desires, fantasies, and needs. 50 guys will like this porntar, and another 50 guys will be turned off by this pornstar. It isn't a personal attack. Nobody fantasizes of being with someone who turns them off. That's reality.

Should we voice our opinions if we think models are not top quality for adult content? Should we not have standards? I think for the most part that we would agree this community would be up in arms if Rosie O’Donnell was an adult model and appeared in SHIP movies.
Well two points

First we are in era where people are easily offended and you can be accused of micro agrressions or having priviledge.

It depends how you do it, I have criticized in both porn and non porn a performer not having the right body or look for a part

Brad Pitt as Achilles
Harrison Ford as Jack Ryan



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

You have to bare in mind these people (and that might come as a shock to some, they ARE people) are trying to earn a living.

Making crass statements like 'she's ugly' or 'she's fat' can directly have an influence on their livelihood and their employability for future productions

Some people might like overly large breasts or rotund women but if possible future employers see those kind of attributes with derogatory comments attached then they may think twice about giving those models a job.

At the end of the day its sales that should govern their career not some guy or girl who had a rough day and decided to bitch about someone because they don't like their body shape.

Its a tough world out there and this is a very hard industry. Just look at the tragic cases of suicide or drug abuse that occur, you dont know what state of mind someone might be in and having someone criticise you because you dont match their notion of beauty might be the straw that breaks the camels back.

There's not huge money in this for the majority of producers and models - they get by. If you are paying $30 for a vid and that money has to go to C4S,(OR any hosting site or personal site web maintenance etc), paypal/payment method, editors, producers, actors, make up guy, sound guy, lighting guy, special effects guy, costumes, script writers, props, make up itself, sound equipment, camera equipment - you have to sell a HELL OF A LOT of them to make any serious money.

Anything, comments wise, that affects someone's ability to earn a living should be avoided. Its fine to say 'I wasn't a fan of her acting' or 'I prefer model X in the role' but don't say 'she's got a huge nose' or 'she is long in the tooth'. Let poor sales weed out the models you don't like from the industry
I agree no one should criticize a model's physical features. It is degrading to say "she's ugly" "her tits are not balanced" or "her nose is big". I would never encourage anyone to go that far.

However, poor sales do not tell the entire story for a movie's failure. Let me give you a real life example. Back in the day when I was a member at Naughty America, they made a lesbian site and it was a huge failure. Fans like myself complained the scenes did not have strap-ons and every story was about a couple. Zero effect was put into the new product. The site didn't last a month. The models did not deserve any blame. Their work shouldn't be effected by a director's poor directing.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by bushwackerbob »

In my experience looks wise I can usually tell from the clip previews as to whether or not a particular model is someone I would make a purchase based on their physical features. Also, we are living in the age of the Internet for crying out loud, if someone is on the fence about whether to purchase a clip with a particular model, there are scores of pictures and videos out there with nearly all of these models and actresses that one would be able to judge whether or not to purchase in regards to said models and actresses. Even though I am sure that there is no malicious intent on the part of GPC, it does seem unnecessarily cruel to go out of one's way to denigrate one's appearance when that is how they make their living.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

Rule #1: Don't be an asshole.

It's a simple rule, yet it can be challenging to follow, because our egos are very persuasive in arguing that something else is important enough to bend Rule #1.

I'm personally challenged a lot. Especially when I forget that the rule is for my own benefit too.
Some guidelines I've found helpful:

Talk about what you like. Avoid talking about what you don't like.
Silence is generally clear enough. Other people can figure out what's not working by subtraction.

Avoid stating the obvious. More feedback is often NOT better. Everyone has limited bandwidth. Choose your words carefully.

Remember that people are emotional, and if they feel threatened they won't hear you.

Being clear is seldom more important than being decent.


GeekyPornCritic, I like that you're an open-minded advocate for pornography, and that you genuinely want everybody to be able to make and get the porn they like. After all, porn exists to make people feel good.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by ttb51m »

this sounds an awful lot like someone needs a cosigner to be a dick and ill mannered ass towards someone else and use physical image as your excuse to do so. everyone deserves respect and manners, until they choose to no longer be worthy of manners and respect, if you cant project it you don't receive it.
as mentioned, you get to not buy the product, that's about all of your opinion that should matter, the director/producer more than likely cares nothing for your specific opinion past purchase or not purchase. with that, I guarantee you someone bought the product and canceled out your lack of purchase so again, your opinion stops having any meaning at your wallet.
correct me if I am wrong but when you buy a custom, you get to pick the talent, so purchasing a custom is somewhat a given you will like what you get, and if it isn't a custom, then buy or don't, the ownership is still on you to be happy with your purchase, these things aren't a surprise, there are always pics or clips.

going further and actually addressing some sort of negativity is just your direct need to project your opinion into the public as if it is truly necessary or meaningful in the scheme of things. and to articulate in detail what someone's physical appearance as being a detriment is jut your lack of manners, couth, decency what every you wish to identify it as, they all apply to any one and everyone that goes out of their way to insult someone else especially when it isn't an actual conflict, with insults flowing back and forth where each individual makes their choice to escalate.

tallyho said an established producer was faced with poor sales, a experiment that didn't work and they scrapped it and tried something else, you mention if 800 people out of a 1000 had the same issue with the same person it should be addressed, I suggest that if 800 out of 1000 people decided not to purchase something, does it matter why it failed or that it failed to the producer, I think its enough to know it wasn't received well and to try a new formula, what purpose did it serve to say something insulting, and to be clear you may not mean it to be insulting, but if the person involved is insulted, your intent is meaningless, it is the perception you should be concerned with on your purpose and delivery.

the actress didn't call you a fat balding adult diaper wearing impotent diabetes factory living in your mothers basement as a testament that you are the stereotypical social outcast and parasite in life, sharing more intimacy with your keyboard and a cheeseburger than you will ever be capable of with another sentient human being or did she clearly identify and articulate in a public forum that you have epically failed to meet the basic standards we have all agreed on that constitutes a successful adult and functioning member of society,,,,,did she?

which I am of course not implying that you are any of theses things, it is an example that if someone said that to you for no reason at all other than they felt like imposing their opinion on you then you should of course lash out in petty and immature ways to match them, shot for shot,,,,online of course, no one wants a "real" conflict within arms reach of one another.

if she did address you in such a way then by all means engage in your online discourse and may the best insult win!



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

this sounds an awful lot like someone needs a cosigner to be a dick and ill mannered ass towards someone else and use physical image as your excuse to do so. everyone deserves respect and manners, until they choose to no longer be worthy of manners and respect, if you cant project it you don't receive it.
as mentioned, you get to not buy the product, that's about all of your opinion that should matter, the director/producer more than likely cares nothing for your specific opinion past purchase or not purchase. with that, I guarantee you someone bought the product and canceled out your lack of purchase so again, your opinion stops having any meaning at your wallet.
correct me if I am wrong but when you buy a custom, you get to pick the talent, so purchasing a custom is somewhat a given you will like what you get, and if it isn't a custom, then buy or don't, the ownership is still on you to be happy with your purchase, these things aren't a surprise, there are always pics or clips.

going further and actually addressing some sort of negativity is just your direct need to project your opinion into the public as if it is truly necessary or meaningful in the scheme of things. and to articulate in detail what someone's physical appearance as being a detriment is jut your lack of manners, couth, decency what every you wish to identify it as, they all apply to any one and everyone that goes out of their way to insult someone else especially when it isn't an actual conflict, with insults flowing back and forth where each individual makes their choice to escalate.

tallyho said an established producer was faced with poor sales, a experiment that didn't work and they scrapped it and tried something else, you mention if 800 people out of a 1000 had the same issue with the same person it should be addressed, I suggest that if 800 out of 1000 people decided not to purchase something, does it matter why it failed or that it failed to the producer, I think its enough to know it wasn't received well and to try a new formula, what purpose did it serve to say something insulting, and to be clear you may not mean it to be insulting, but if the person involved is insulted, your intent is meaningless, it is the perception you should be concerned with on your purpose and delivery.

the actress didn't call you a fat balding adult diaper wearing impotent diabetes factory living in your mothers basement as a testament that you are the stereotypical social outcast and parasite in life, sharing more intimacy with your keyboard and a cheeseburger than you will ever be capable of with another sentient human being or did she clearly identify and articulate in a public forum that you have epically failed to meet the basic standards we have all agreed on that constitutes a successful adult and functioning member of society,,,,,did she?

which I am of course not implying that you are any of theses things, it is an example that if someone said that to you for no reason at all other than they felt like imposing their opinion on you then you should of course lash out in petty and immature ways to match them, shot for shot,,,,online of course, no one wants a "real" conflict within arms reach of one another.

if she did address you in such a way then by all means engage in your online discourse and may the best insult win!
First, this topic is not about customs. It was not mention by anyone. You are bringing irrelevant points.

Voting with your wallet doesn't say much. It only says you dislike a product. Your actions do not say why you dislike the product. Statistics require more information to know why a product is a success or failure.

Let me give you a real life example. I was once a member at Brazzers and their rude and overrated director Brando filmed the network's worst rated video. The video stars Eva Angelina, a very popular and pretty model. Why did this movie fail? Brando asked Eva to shave her head and she agreed to do it for the film. Well.............fans were instantly turned off. The video was intended to be the first in a series, but management cancel it.

The director Brando criticized viewers for "failing to understand what is sexy" and was upset that management was upset with his poor decision to shave Eva's head. Eva stated she lost work for agreeing to shave her head. Other companies were not aware of her decision to change her look before they booked her months in advance. All companies except for Naughty America canceled her shots.

Membership sites work totally different than clip sites. Once you have a membership, then you will receive new updates on a schedule. The network decides which videos that will be released. Of course you can always not download or watch videos. If you don't like the new updates, then you may cancel your account. Canceling your account does not say why you are canceling it.

Newer membership sites do not have rating systems for videos. Some sites have a shady rating system that only gives you the option to vote thumbs up, but there is no option to vote thumbs down. You can't even give a movie a bad rating to voice your opinion on the movie. You don't have a voice at all.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by bushwackerbob »

Voice. That is the key word there. This is what is wrong with social media: "I have a strongly held opinion, it is an opinion I value and therefore everyone out there will value that opinion too so it is important that I broadcast that opinion for all to see". Sometimes just because you can say something does not mean that you should say something. This voting with your wallet thing has been one of the cornerstones of capitalism since its inception, and it is as good a metric now as it was a hundred years ago. For some, social media is not merely about having your voice heard out there in the universe, and engaging with others but a mechanism through which some seek to augment that voice in an attempt to gain more power and influence. Some wish not to be merely a voice but a megaphone.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Voice. That is the key word there. This is what is wrong with social media: "I have a strongly held opinion, it is an opinion I value and therefore everyone out there will value that opinion too so it is important that I broadcast that opinion for all to see". Sometimes just because you can say something does not mean that you should say something. This voting with your wallet thing has been one of the cornerstones of capitalism since its inception, and it is as good a metric now as it was a hundred years ago. For some, social media is not merely about having your voice heard out there in the universe, and engaging with others but a mechanism through which some seek to augment that voice in an attempt to gain more power and influence. Some wish not to be merely a voice but a megaphone.
Voting with your wallet only tells half of the story. Proper research and statistics require more information. A good business looks into the reasons of a product's failure.

Look at the gaming industry. People love Super Mario, but the franchise's worst selling games are the educational games. The problem was not Mario. People did not like the games because they were poorly designed. Do you see what I did? Yes, people voted with their wallets, and they had a reason.

Capcom made the mistake by only looking at the wallet when they decided to put Mega Man on the back burner. People weren't buying the games. The problem wasn't Mega Man or the games' stories. Capcom poorly designed a lot of Mega Man X games, thus turning people way from bad products. X5 through X8 are considered bad or mediocre by many fans. Capcom finally released Mega Man 11 and it was a major success. It was successful because many customers think the game is fun and well designed.

There is nothing wrong with people voicing their opinions. That's the beauty of freedom of speech. I can say Supergirl is awesome, and Joe can say Supergirl is boring. Joe can freely criticize my opinion, and that's okay too.

What if a company almost films the perfect movie. The story, costumes, characters, and ideas for sexual peril are fantastic. However, the director casted Trista (has not done porn in 15 years) as the star and heroine in the video. Only a few people buy the movie. Without asking, the producer will never know why the video failed. In many cases if the male is African American, then producers quickly blame the interracial aspect for a video's failure instead of looking at other possibilities.

Years ago the creator of Twistys filmed one interracial scene with Tori Black and some black guy who I don't know. It was the worst rated video on the site and he blamed the black guy. He never considered if the video quality, racially charged story, or boring sex scene as potential reasons for the video's failure. He said there is no way any video with Tori Black can fail.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

You guys are 100% right. This is one area that a person with any class should keep to himself or herself. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings. That is not my intention, but a person can be offended regardless of my intentions.

I've been teasing the idea of restarting my review blog, and this subject came to mind. I'm a human and not everyone is going to excite me. I asked myself should I not review movies with models that aren't my type or should I express my opinion. It is pretty clear I should just stay away and not even comment on those movies even if I think the movies would be great with a different model.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by bushwackerbob »

Any company or business that is unable to figure out the sales metrics of their particular business is ultimately doomed to fail regardless of social media contributions. The problem with companies making decisions based on social media is that social media is a poor barometer in order to measure the pulse of the population at large, that social media is a tiny sliver, a vocal noisy and sometimes uncivil minority of people that is not representative of the community at large. Any company that makes business decisions based on this vocal minority is making decisions on incomplete, insufficient, and often misleading information. Denigrating someone's physical appearance under the guise of "helping" these companies is a flimsy excuse for acting like a dick.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Denigrating someone's physical appearance under the guise of "helping" these companies is a flimsy excuse for acting like a dick.
This is the sex industry, not fast food service. A person's physical appearance is one of the reasons why we buy videos. It is one of the top selling points for every video in the industry.

You are suggesting we should have a double standard. It's okay for customers to say they bought a video because they think Model C is sexy. However, it is wrong for a customer to say he will not buy a video because Model D is in the video.

That's a problem in society. It's like when people try to force companies to add certain groups of people in movies and photo shots. I cringe when I hear people criticize mainstream companies (not porn companies) for not filming BBW women, black women, trans women, etc. Sports Illustrated should not feel forced or pressured to include any particular group of people. The artist should only take photos of women who he believes are beautiful. The artist should only express his views and not anyone else's views. The purpose of art is to express oneself.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

It's not a double standard, and it's not like that.

Was your previous post sarcasm? Because for an hour there I thought you'd found some enlightenment.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Shakeshift »

If you don't like a certain person's look, then vote with your wallet, not with your mouth.

Producers don't give a shit about what the fans think. They only care about what the fans BUY. That's all that matters at the end of the day.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

It's not a double standard, and it's not like that.

Was your previous post sarcasm? Because for an hour there I thought you'd found some enlightenment.
I agree it is best to keep those types of opinions to ourselves. Regardless of a person's intentions, a person can be hurt by those comments. It can crush a person's self-esteem.

At the same time, we are accepting a double standard. You can say you like her looks, but you better not say anything negative. You can criticize the story, costumes, sound quality, picture quality, and video angles. However, if the only reason you won't buy the movie is because of the model, then you need to be quit.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

It is not a double standard. Different things are different. And none of it is absolutely black and white. Are you... pouting about this? I hope not.

Different people are more or less sensitive about their work. You can absolutely hurt someone's feelings -- and be an asshole -- by saying the story sucks. Your criticism is always of a person at the root of it.

But I hope you understand that more people are more sensitive about their looks. More people feel they can do less about their looks than about their work. Most people can see a path to improvement of their work -- they can try again -- but see much less latitude in what they can do about their looks. And desirability is, probably too much but that's our modern society, a monumental part of many people's self-worth. This is without considering all the more nuanced aspects of sex workers and the porn industry and our cultural gender dynamics.

And when you call someone ugly, you're not just calling THEM ugly, but everyone who identifies with them, and everyone who thinks they're not as attractive as them.

You seem to be looking for permission to assert your truth without consideration for others. You cannot construct simple black-and-white rules that make it okay to let the bull traverse the china shop with blinders on. You will have to consider degrees, and consider differences in sensitivity to degrees in different things. You will always need to balance your wants and needs against those of others, dynamically, emotionally, and you will definitely get it wrong sometimes. You should feel bad about it, learn from it, and move forward. You will also feel judged, sometimes unfairly, by other people, who are emotional and even sometimes assholes.

And yes, occasionally, clauses in the social contract are less than perfectly logical, and that STILL does not give you a free pass to assert your truth without consideration for others while your inner lawyers litigate the fine print.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by ttb51m »

someone already mentioned it, if you want to discuss your issue simply say "I am not a fan of her" generic but direct. no reason what so ever or at least no valid or positive reason to say I don't like her (insert physical attribute) (acting abilities) (anything specific just becomes simply damaging) one option conveys your displeasure and opinion, the other, removes your opportunity to not be the epitome of self important condescending ill mannered and disrespectful, and conveys your opinion as an insult.

done, and done



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

It is not a double standard. Different things are different. And none of it is absolutely black and white. Are you... pouting about this? I hope not.

Different people are more or less sensitive about their work. You can absolutely hurt someone's feelings -- and be an asshole -- by saying the story sucks. Your criticism is always of a person at the root of it.

But I hope you understand that more people are more sensitive about their looks. More people feel they can do less about their looks than about their work. Most people can see a path to improvement of their work -- they can try again -- but see much less latitude in what they can do about their looks. And desirability is, probably too much but that's our modern society, a monumental part of many people's self-worth. This is without considering all the more nuanced aspects of sex workers and the porn industry and our cultural gender dynamics.

And when you call someone ugly, you're not just calling THEM ugly, but everyone who identifies with them, and everyone who thinks they're not as attractive as them.

You seem to be looking for permission to assert your truth without consideration for others. You cannot construct simple black-and-white rules that make it okay to let the bull traverse the china shop with blinders on. You will have to consider degrees, and consider differences in sensitivity to degrees in different things. You will always need to balance your wants and needs against those of others, dynamically, emotionally, and you will definitely get it wrong sometimes. You should feel bad about it, learn from it, and move forward. You will also feel judged, sometimes unfairly, by other people, who are emotional and even sometimes assholes.

And yes, occasionally, clauses in the social contract are less than perfectly logical, and that STILL does not give you a free pass to assert your truth without consideration for others while your inner lawyers litigate the fine print.
I'm not suggesting calling anyone ugly or talking about a specific physical feature. I totally agree specific comments or "ugly"comments are rude. They cross the line. As I stated in the first post, "is it wrong to say this model isn't my type?".
someone already mentioned it, if you want to discuss your issue simply say "I am not a fan of her" generic but direct. no reason what so ever or at least no valid or positive reason to say I don't like her (insert physical attribute) (acting abilities) (anything specific just becomes simply damaging) one option conveys your displeasure and opinion, the other, removes your opportunity to not be the epitome of self important condescending ill mannered and disrespectful, and conveys your opinion as an insult.

done, and done
How is wrong to criticize a model's acting ability or anything specific (non-physical)? Many members including myself have criticized a model's acting ability. Some models in the industry don't try acting a part and just read lines. Thankfully, SHIP videos often include good actresses.

If a model is just there to collect a check and seems disinterested, then her attitude kills the scene. I have seen this many times in videos outside of SHIP.

What you're suggesting is babying people. If people can't criticize a person's acting ability, then they are unable to give an option on the movie.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by tallyho »

However, if the only reason you won't buy the movie is because of the model, then you need to be quit.
You don't have to keep quiet, but its the way you express your dissatisfaction- you can just say ' Girl X didnt really work for me in the role, I would have preferred girl Y' and you have expressed your displeasure with the actress without being offensive. Its fine to criticise their acting or performance and that way the producer or actress might learn from it 'I thought she was a bit wooden' or 'she mumbled her lines' thats stuff that can be improved but directly criticising her body shape serves no purpose other than to offend


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by tallyho »


I'm not suggesting calling anyone ugly or talking about a specific physical feature. I totally agree specific comments or "ugly"comments are rude. They cross the line. As I stated in the first post, "is it wrong to say this model isn't my type?".

BUT YOU ARE SAYING PRECISELY THAT IN THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD.

You use the term 'BAD LOOKING' what is that if its not calling her ugly , openly?


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »


I'm not suggesting calling anyone ugly or talking about a specific physical feature. I totally agree specific comments or "ugly"comments are rude. They cross the line. As I stated in the first post, "is it wrong to say this model isn't my type?".

BUT YOU ARE SAYING PRECISELY THAT IN THE TITLE OF THIS THREAD.

You use the term 'BAD LOOKING' what is that if its not calling her ugly , openly?
That wasn't my intention, but only the readers decide how they think and feel.

Fair points. You guys are 100% right.

I have learned my lesson. Please delete this foolish thread if need be.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by tallyho »

As I stated at the start, its a valid topic of conversation, and as you stated yourself you wouldnt call any one outright ugly so none of these responses have been a personal attack on you.
Its just people answering the question posed but I think the thread title became different to what you were trying to ask in the posts with regards to being critical of an actress' performance rather than her looks


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

I'm not suggesting calling anyone ugly or talking about a specific physical feature. I totally agree specific comments or "ugly"comments are rude. They cross the line. As I stated in the first post, "is it wrong to say this model isn't my type?".
Again you're asking for a free pass, because you cannot be too naive to know this is usually code for "not hot enough according to generally accepted (if unrealistic) standards of beauty." That's the message you intend -- see the title of this thread, and your concern that a producer might confuse low sales for a critique of content or production value -- and that's the message the producer and the performer will receive loud and clear when you say it. --And yes, I think saying that makes you an asshole.

If "not my type" is legitimately a particular fetish you have that's not simply a parallel for the numerical scale of hotness -- "can't cum unless she's clearly of mixed ethnicity" or even "can't cum unless she's a freckled redhead" is pretty legit; "can't cum unless she's got pornstar tits" isn't -- then you could express that clearly in a way that makes it your hangup and not their shortcoming.

But I have to say it's frustrating for me to agree with you, on the surface, when you say you should just keep quiet -- because your sentiment seems to be pouting and snippy, like it's an injustice you're suffering and you're just making a righteous retreat. And yeah, there is some injustice in the way the industry doesn't better cater to your minority interest. But you can still be proud of who you are and assert your interests without being a dick.

You might, however, need to be more realistic about why businesses aren't smarter than they are, and why they don't listen better, and why they aren't more transparently interested in serving customers better. Or at least more clever and determined about creating change instead of collateral damage.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

I'm not suggesting calling anyone ugly or talking about a specific physical feature. I totally agree specific comments or "ugly"comments are rude. They cross the line. As I stated in the first post, "is it wrong to say this model isn't my type?".
Again you're asking for a free pass, because you cannot be too naive to know this is usually code for "not hot enough according to generally accepted (if unrealistic) standards of beauty." That's the message you intend -- see the title of this thread, and your concern that a producer might confuse low sales for a critique of content or production value -- and that's the message the producer and the performer will receive loud and clear when you say it. --And yes, I think saying that makes you an asshole.

If "not my type" is legitimately a particular fetish you have that's not simply a parallel for the numerical scale of hotness -- "can't cum unless she's clearly of mixed ethnicity" or even "can't cum unless she's a freckled redhead" is pretty legit; "can't cum unless she's got pornstar tits" isn't -- then you could express that clearly in a way that makes it your hangup and not their shortcoming.

But I have to say it's frustrating for me to agree with you, on the surface, when you say you should just keep quiet -- because your sentiment seems to be pouting and snippy, like it's an injustice you're suffering and you're just making a righteous retreat. And yeah, there is some injustice in the way the industry doesn't better cater to your minority interest. But you can still be proud of who you are and assert your interests without being a dick.

You might, however, need to be more realistic about why businesses aren't smarter than they are, and why they don't listen better, and why they aren't more transparently interested in serving customers better. Or at least more clever and determined about creating change instead of collateral damage.
Why do you assume my interest is in the minority? I haven't expressed my personal interest in this topic. As I stated in the opening post, we all have different desires, fantasies, needs, etc.

Saying someone is "not my type" can be different from saying "someone is not hot enough". It depends on the person's perspective. Like for myself, I think Model C is pretty. However, she is into hip-hop/rap culture and it is a turn off when she shows that side of her personality in scenes. I also would not say that.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

Why do you assume my interest is in the minority? I haven't expressed my personal interest in this topic. As I stated in the opening post, we all have different desires, fantasies, needs, etc.
Because you've expressed ongoing frustration that dominant producers in the genre use pornstars to make softcore. And I believe you had a hard time finding a male model to fit the type you were looking for. It's not a value judgement.
Saying someone is "not my type" can be different from saying "someone is not hot enough".
Yes, and the word holocaust can technically refer to a ring of ash, but the considerate thing to do is say it a different way so that your meaning is clear -- and if you can't be clear without being unkind, then do better than the worn-out fools-nobody "not my type" or just keep quiet.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Why do you assume my interest is in the minority? I haven't expressed my personal interest in this topic. As I stated in the opening post, we all have different desires, fantasies, needs, etc.
Because you've expressed ongoing frustration that dominant producers in the genre use pornstars to make softcore. And I believe you had a hard time finding a male model to fit the type you were looking for. It's not a value judgement.
There's no evidence to prove I am in the minority because I am pro-hardcore. Where are the studies to backup your point of view? The issue of finding a male model to play a specific role had nothing to do with producers. Two producers expressed interest in the custom, but there are not any slim black guys in porn. You have to find a willing person to do the job.

Also, this has nothing to do with the topic's subject.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by saxman314 »

Literally nobody gives a fuck about your opinion of a model, so giving a negative opinion is just being a dick.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

GeekyPornCritic, you are a wrecking ball.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by tallyho »

Ooooookaaaaay chaps lets all keep it calm and polite towards each other


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by bushwackerbob »

There were certain values instilled in me when I was young such as treat others the way you would like to be treated, remember to hold a door for a lady, try to be kind, considerate, and courteous to your fellow human beings and for the love of Pete, never make derogatory remarks to a woman about her appearance! Whenever I see the topic subject line here and see some of the truly hateful and inconsiderate garbage on social media I always marvel over how lucky I was to have two incredible parents.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by arkane »

In my opinion, people selling erotic videos are or should be professionals, or at least they are business operators in a market. So they should be ready to accept judgment and critics. I wrote in a past review that models in a certain video weren't young and beautiful as many in the business, this has upset some, but I think it should be accepted as OK because it wasn't done with crass body remarks or telling specific names.

If you're the customer your opinion should be accepted, as long as it's expressed in a respectful manner.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

Was the youth and beauty of the models misrepresented in the promotional imagery? If not then you were just being rude.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by arkane »

There was no sufficient "imagery" to speak of.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by tallyho »

So they should be ready to accept judgment and critics. I wrote in a past review that models in a certain video weren't young and beautiful as many in the business, this has upset some, but I think it should be accepted as OK because it wasn't done with crass body remarks or telling specific names.

If you're the customer your opinion should be accepted, as long as it's expressed in a respectful manner.
Beauty as they say is in the eye of the beholder, so thats a bit shakey to say someone isnt as beautiful as person X or whatever as it is just your opinion.
I think its also important WHERE you make the comments not just what you say. If its a review then thats your right to pass critical judgement - again in a respectful way -' I would have preferred actress x', 'the lead heroine just didnt do it for me' etc but whilst other more negative comments are fine in a review or even passing comment in the Lounge section here on an upcoming release, I would not expect to see them in the RELEASE thread of a video. (or in the Producers section here)


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by bushwackerbob »

Obviously, it goes without saying that everybody has a right to express themselves in any manner they choose to do so. There is a one minute comedy bit by Ricky Gervais on YouTube about Twitter and guitar lessons that articulate my thoughts on this subject matter succinctly. It is amazing to me how some people will go out of their way to twist themselves in knots and come up with all kinds of justifications just so they can denigrate an actresses personal appearance.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by MightyHypnotic »

Two old phrases come to mind.

1) Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

2) If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.

Sure it's your right to say what you want but what good will come of posting something like that publicly? I think that would be a sentiment you might want to send in a PM or email to the producer, just to let him know your thoughts. When you post something negative in a public forum, no matter how you try to soften the blow, there are still a lot of people who will think you're being unkind and mean. I am not saying you ARE and I totally get your point but I don't know anyone who wants to be labeled unattractive. Especially models.

As an aside, I used to like doing YELP reviews. But last year I made it a personal policy not to give a negative review and instead I would make my feelings known to the business owner. Most were appreciative, some were ambivalent but it seemed to be a better path to take to help them fix their issues.

I have people send me emails all the time regarding models and videos and I appreciate it.

Anyway, if I had a forum on my website (I used to) and someone came on and criticized the models, I would probably remove it too...for the simple fact that I wouldn't want her to read it.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

There was no sufficient "imagery" to speak of.
There are still producers who expect people to buy stuff blind, without any "box art," preview pics, or trailer?
That's bonkers.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

There was no sufficient "imagery" to speak of.
There are still producers who expect people to buy stuff blind, without any "box art," preview pics, or trailer?
That's bonkers.
That's a major issue in SHIP and indie porn. Only the most popular producers such as Kendra James, Primal Fetish, Tropic City, Sinful Entertainment, MIghtyHypnotic, and others provide reasonable previews.

Another problem is Manyvids may select random images from a video so you may not get reliable information. I think Manyvids does offer 30 second previews, but that can be too short for feature videos that are nearly an hour long.

Some stores on Clips4sale do not provide trailers and a fair about of preview pictures. You will find many stores with a single picture. One picture does not provide information for me to make a purchase.

Then, there are producers who put "false tags" on videos. I purchased one video last year because a particular model was tagged in it. However, she wasn't in the movie. Clips4Sale offered me a refund due to the false advertising.

Mainstream porn has it fair share of problems as well with broken videos that are never fixed for YEARS, advertising videos that are no longer on the site, pre-checking purchases at check out, horrible customer service, etc.

Overall, the industry is not customer friendly. Models post happy comments on social media and companies promote their next great movies. Yet, companies do not try to give us customers a good experience. I remember asking for a supervisor and a representative said "We don't have supervisors".



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

Let's not expand the issue -- this is about whether the model is young enough and hot enough to meet a buyer's expectations. It doesn't take much imagery to establish that. And yes, there are specific instances where the model isn't identified, and not only can you not tell who it is from the randomly-generated thirty second preview or poorly chosen still, you can't even get a good look at her -- but if you're shopping where that's the rule not the exception, then your complaint should be about the lack of basic product information, and not the youth and hotness of particular models.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by TIEnTEEZ »

There was no sufficient "imagery" to speak of.
There are still producers who expect people to buy stuff blind, without any "box art," preview pics, or trailer?
That's bonkers.
That's a major issue in SHIP and indie porn. Only the most popular producers such as Kendra James, Primal Fetish, Tropic City, Sinful Entertainment, MIghtyHypnotic, and others provide reasonable previews.

Another problem is Manyvids may select random images from a video so you may not get reliable information. I think Manyvids does offer 30 second previews, but that can be too short for feature videos that are nearly an hour long.

Some stores on Clips4sale do not provide trailers and a fair about of preview pictures. You will find many stores with a single picture. One picture does not provide information for me to make a purchase.

Then, there are producers who put "false tags" on videos. I purchased one video last year because a particular model was tagged in it. However, she wasn't in the movie. Clips4Sale offered me a refund due to the false advertising.

Mainstream porn has it fair share of problems as well with broken videos that are never fixed for YEARS, advertising videos that are no longer on the site, pre-checking purchases at check out, horrible customer service, etc.

Overall, the industry is not customer friendly. Models post happy comments on social media and companies promote their next great movies. Yet, companies do not try to give us customers a good experience. I remember asking for a supervisor and a representative said "We don't have supervisors".
Frankly, studios that post videos without any kind of preview are idiots. Or maybe they are money-launderers who don't really care about selling their videos. :-P

There's no way I would ever buy something like that. Even if I know the studio is amazing, like Christina Carter - I would NEVER buy a video for which I can't even see some still images to get an idea of what the costume's look like.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by arkane »

There was no sufficient "imagery" to speak of.
There are still producers who expect people to buy stuff blind, without any "box art," preview pics, or trailer?
That's bonkers.
Clip4sale sites offers just a little pix and very small preview video (now this is a bit better, but it's a recent improvement).

Maybe you should refrain from calling names. You could state your point without that, did you know?



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

Maybe you should refrain from calling names. You could state your point without that, did you know?
O the irony.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Heroine Addict »

Who would buy porn without having any idea what the models look like?

There are plenty of models in the industry who tick every box for conventional attractiveness, yet they do nothing for me. Meanwhile, some "borderline boilers" may be a bit rough-looking, but they have a surprising sex appeal (to me) which the French might describe as a certain I don't know what.

I really can't see the point in buying porn as a "lucky dip" without having any idea of how attractive I'll find the models. That's just weird.

In response to the OP, it's just a matter of discretion. It may be fair enough to talk about perceived flaws while privately discussing your taste in models with a producer. However, openly saying that you won't buy a video because of a specific model's appearance is likely to go down like a lead balloon on a forum. Particularly if there's a fair chance of the actual model reading your comments.


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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by GeekyPornCritic »

Who would buy porn without having any idea what the models look like?

There are plenty of models in the industry who tick every box for conventional attractiveness, yet they do nothing for me. Meanwhile, some "borderline boilers" may be a bit rough-looking, but they have a surprising sex appeal (to me) which the French might describe as a certain I don't know what.

I really can't see the point in buying porn as a "lucky dip" without having any idea of how attractive I'll find the models. That's just weird.

In response to the OP, it's just a matter of discretion. It may be fair enough to talk about perceived flaws while privately discussing your taste in models with a producer. However, openly saying that you won't buy a video because of a specific model's appearance is likely to go down like a lead balloon on a forum. Particularly if there's a fair chance of the actual model reading your comments.
Who buys porn without knowing what the models look like? The answer is many porn customers. This situation only happens with network sites like Brazzers, Naughty America, Reality Kings (Owned by Brazzers), etc. Customers have no idea who will be in the next updates. Furthermore, they may not have any idea the type of model will be in a video.

For example, Brazzers has many different sites on its network, and some of those sites include "Big Tits" in their names. You would think every female on those "Big Tits" sites would have big tits. That's not the case. There are some scenes with small chested models, thus Brazzers is knowingly falsely advertising their product.

Those customers are stuck in a one month or one year membership. You may assume a video to a customer's liking will be released. However, we can't make that assumption. There is a possibility the customer will not like any model on the site for months.

One last thing, just because a guy may like big tits, blonds, or big butts, that does not mean he likes every woman with those physical features. Other features may turn him off such as a face, attitude, tattoos, etc. I like big tits, but I certainly do not like every busty model.



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Dazzle1 »

It may go back to how you express your dislike.

As an example I do not find excessive body art attractive, and I could have one of my favorite producers do a video with the the fetises I like but they choose a model who has this feature

If I say I would not buy this video because I do not like excessive body art on the model fine

But if I say so and so picked an ugly or gross model not fine



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Re: Why is it wrong for customers to say a model is bad looking in the sex industry?

Post by Imagineer »

Subscribing to a service is not the same as buying a video.

Regardless, reasonable consumers are signing up for Brazzers for the big tits they've previewed, not because they haven't yet seen any big tits they liked in the 614 Big Tits at Work, 568 Big Tits at School, 176 Big Tits in Uniform, or 241 Big Tits in Sports previews, but they still trust the sign that says Big Tits and surely a satisfactory pair of big tits will be released soon.

Regardless, buying or subscribing to porn sight unseen does not give the buyer a politeness pass to publicly say a model is bad looking.

It's possible to stand up for yourself as a porn consumer, to help other porn consumers, and to advocate for the improvement of the porn industry, while still being respectful of others' creative work and especially of the shape and youth of performers' bodies, over which they have limited control. And if you find yourself in a specific situation in which you can't figure out how to do both, consider taking one for the team instead of taking it out on the performer.



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