The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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lionbadger
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The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by lionbadger »

Is absolutely glorious to watch but is bad for SHIP since anything priced in dollars is now twice the cost it used to be

#prayforAlexander Boris de Piffle Johnson

(Yes I know mods are grinding their teeth at a thinly veiled political thread but nobody on this forum even knows where the Uk is and they're now frantically googling "is the UK England" and I include Tallyho in that because we all know that he's permanently off his tits on toilet duck and thinks he lives in the Dark Crystal)



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Femina »

Is absolutely glorious to watch but is bad for SHIP since anything priced in dollars is now twice the cost it used to be

#prayforAlexander Boris de Piffle Johnson

(Yes I know mods are grinding their teeth at a thinly veiled political thread but nobody on this forum even knows where the Uk is and they're now frantically googling "is the UK England" and I include Tallyho in that because we all know that he's permanently off his tits on toilet duck and thinks he lives in the Dark Crystal)
Only Mother Ogra lives in the Dark Crystal. Her pure younger self. So I guess that what you're saying is that Thra is in danger?



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Damselbinder »

I'm from the UK. :(


A full list of my stories can be found here, with summaries to boot: viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32027

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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by tallyho »

God knows we need a Superhero right now. Maybe its Phillip Lee (just defected to Lib Dems wiping out BoJos majority of 1)

Whilst its fun watching this disaster unfold in a schadenfreude sort of way, I cant help feel I must move this to the Misc section.
In a bit.

And for the record I dont live in the Dark Crystal. I dwell in the hearts of beautiful women the world over. They want me, but they can never have me.


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by lionbadger »

I'm from the UK. :(
"I'm Brian and so's my wife!"

there's always one

Probably from Guernsey too



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Damselbinder »

How dare you. I'm from London.


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by swampy170 »

I wouldn't worry too much, the pound's devaluation is artificial - due to being maaasively shorted.

A great time to buy some bargain stocks however! ;-)

.

As for the government, Boris is playing a blinder - if the GE goes ahead and the conservatives have the touted deal with the Brexit party, Labour is evicerated and the Tories barely harmed.

And what's more the opposition know it - Boris has brilliantly called their bluff.

Interesting days to be sure. As for if the UK'll leave - still anyone's bet. The damage from 3 years of uncertainty has been massive though, let's hope parliament finally get their butts in gear - after all over 60% of constituencies voted leave, not for a deal. Should be no issue leaving the EU.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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SHOULD the UK leave the EU - a substantially different question.

Of course, in the short term the obvious answer is no. But in the long term - the UK absolutely should leave on economic terms.

The EU have refused to consider reform, they are hell bent on closer political integration - and eventually this will force the UK to accept rules that make the Pound a massive disadvantage to the UK, meaning the UK need to join the Euro to remain in Europe. Something that due to the underlying strength of the UK economy is always going to suck.

Slightly more palateable right now due to artificial devaluation - but still a further devaluation of 20%. Painful stuff.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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How dare you. I'm from London.
Oh yeah, here we go and you spend all your days on SHU Forum because you bowled a wide in the cricket world cup against Manchester United and that ended your promising cricket career



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by tallyho »

. But in the long term - the UK absolutely should leave on economic terms.
We have almost no industrial economic base left - more people are employed in Indian restaurants than in the old heavy industries of Ship building Steel working and mining added together.

In the last 10 years China has BUILT 35 ports all over the world - we couldnt even put up a bridge with pot plants on it over the Thames (The Thames Garden bridge) but somehow managed to spend £56m NOT building it. The HS2 high speed train link between London and Edinburgh (which was going to take 20 YEARS ANYWAY FFS!) started in 2012 and is already 5 years behind and likely to come in at least £80 billion over budget. The new aircraft carrier we built had devastating leakage on its sea trials and we arent going to have any aircraft to put on it until 2022. These are the adverts for our nation that we are putting out to the world.

60% OF OUR TRADE IS WITH THE EU - which will deteriorate clearly if we leave, 20% is with the US (which we trade at a small surplus with at the moment so any deal Trump is going to want to see that surplus on HIS side of the pond) so thats 80% of our trade that will likely be adversely affected to a degree) of the remaining 7 countries that the WTO cites as being beneficial to trade with (there are 36 including us but 27 of them are the EU states we are turning our back upon) of those 7, China, Japan and Canada have signed trade deals with the EU in the last 2 years which basically leaves S Africa, Australia and New Zealand to make up the shortfall.

We still have some good tech industries but they are small employers and any innovators like the guys who discovered Graphene a few years back will not surprisingly go where the money is, and lets face it it sure as hell aint here.

Boris' solution to encourage the great minds of the world to come to a morally destitute nation that is sliding into right wing racism? Faster passport application processing. Not bigger research grants, not state of the art labs, not investment in tech industry, not high wages - but quicker passport handling to encourage the geniuses of he world to come to the UK quicker, so they can be racially abused faster than ever before.

Oh yeah, we definitely should leave on economic grounds.

There's a reason 200 of the worlds top economists said leaving is a terrible idea. Possibly because its a terrible idea


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Exactly, 60% of our trade is with the EU - who's influence in the world is shrinking.

60% of our trade isn't with the new Asian trade block that includes China, Japan, India, Russia and Australia. THAT is where the money is in the next decade - Europe is gradually collapsing in on itself, we need to surgically remove that link so we can remain competitive before it starts sucking the life from us in earnest. That's exactly what's been happening with Germany.

Germany has been bleeding money, their banks are massively overstretched - and with China looking dicey, there's a signifcant risk we will soon have to bail Germany out again. This due to us being part of the EU.

No, we cannot let one of our closest trading partners collapse - but yes, we should absolutely take our pound of flesh for helping them out. Only possible outside the EU.

.

Japan offered us a place in the Pacific trading block last year, but due to EU ties we were unable to reciprocate.

We have the only exchange in Yuan outside China, we have an excellent foundation for an explosion of international trade - we just need to sieze the opportunity, and stop crying about how we've been close with Europe for so long.

.

In the immediate term, the economists are correct - and that's exactly what their limited predictions apply to. In the long term, if the UK were to take a protectionist approach it would be abysmal - agreed. But NOBODY is suggesting that.

All those touting Brexit are talking about spreading further onto the world stage - stengthening ties with China, India, and many developing African countries.

Being tied ever more closely with the EU is not in the UK's best interests - the EU is becoming ever more German and Franco centric, and the UK continually pushed to the fringes. This isn't even due to government policy, but due to the Pound. It is inevitable we join the Euro and devalue if we remain.

Leaving is a political requirement, and as such the fiscal argument is irrelevant. Parliament have a mandate to leave from the people and must implement it.

We should not fear leaving however - it's not like the UK has a short history. We can survive without being tied at the hip to old enemies.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by bushwackerbob »

Fascinating. I feel like I am getting a real education in the inner workings of the British politics. I mean I have a general surface knowledge of what is going on there in regards to Brexit, but as a neophyte I would like to know what you Brits think of Brexit as it concerns the issue of immigration.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by tallyho »

Democracy is about FREE and FAIR elections - free as in not influenced by foreign powers - Russia stumped up £8m for the leave campaign via the Isle of Man and had active Facebook and Twitter campaigns all pro leave, and fair as in you dont break the election rules by spending more money on the campaign than you are allowed. Which the leave campaign did.
Finally its nice if you are actually given a real option to vote for, rather than the £350 m per week that you can now give to the NHS (none of which was true)
Coupled with the fact that of the 42m eligible to vote 8m didnt bother so 17.2m who did vote leave are a) a minority of the population and b) are dragging the 60m people of Britain into sometheing most of them didnt vote for.
The margin of victory for leave was 1.2 m which is only 600,000 more as a swing one way to the other, which represents the lies on the side of the bus influencing one leaver in 32 to vote leave and make the difference. I am pretty sure more than 1 person in 32 believed that rubbish.
So if all that is the sort of democracy you want to defend as somehow 'sacrosanct' or a 'mandate' what precedent are you setting for democracy?
You can tell lies and break election rules and its ok as long as you win. You dont have to deliver any of it because you promised all parties that whatever they wanted was up for negotiation even though the EU said all along certain things werent.
If this is your democracy, then all anyone needs to do is buy an election by spending whatever amount you want on advertising your position and promise everyone in the country £1m each, a Rolls Royce and a holiday in the Bahamas. Then when you win the vote just say I cant do any of that but the vote still stands.
Imagine being asked
Do you want a blow job?
Yes please.
Its from a piranha.
Oh then no thanks.
Too late. Blow job means blow job.

The EU have had the same position for 3 years. 3years later we dont know what our position actually is.
Given the lies and the illegality and the vagueness of it all I see no issue with asking the public do you really want to leave under these terms of x-y-z.


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by tallyho »

Header_1112535_16.9.jpg
Header_1112535_16.9.jpg (78.44 KiB) Viewed 1050 times
Given how well prepared we were for the negotiations , with 1 pad and a pen between 3 of us, its hard to believe its turned out so badly


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by patmac4 »

the simple fact is there was no plan to leave the EU. now we those who want to leave with out a deal, those who want to leave with a deal. those who want to remain. those who want a second vote. total mess.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Femina »

Well it's nice to know America's not the only country imploding on itself. Or wait... is that nice? *Sigh* It's time to put on my "The End is Near" sign and mill around downtown isn't it?



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by bushwackerbob »

Well it's nice to know America's not the only country imploding on itself. Or wait... is that nice? *Sigh* It's time to put on my "The End is Near" sign and mill around downtown isn't it?
Cheer up. Our countries have survived world wars, civil wars, been on the brink of nuclear annihilation, endured disco, Celine Dion, female ghostbusters, Brie Larson's Captain Marvel and we are still here. As long as there are is an engaged citizenry dedicated to holding our elected officials accountable for their actions, our countries should be ok. This too shall pass.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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As long as there are is an engaged citizenry dedicated to holding our elected officials accountable for their actions, our countries should be ok. This too shall pass.
I think I see the root of the problem



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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the simple fact is there was no plan to leave the EU. now we those who want to leave with out a deal, those who want to leave with a deal. those who want to remain. those who want a second vote. total mess.
The trouble was there were 17.2m different meanings of Brexit.
We should have formulated a plan BEFORE triggering article 50 (we had a year) instead the Tories spent it fighting among themselves. All these debates and issues we are seeing now should have been raised at the vote to ratify the referendum - instead MPs got terrified of being labelled an enemy of the people if they spoke up for common sense. That ratification vote passed by something like 470 -90 with 60 abstentions. Considering the referendum was 52-48%, that massive split is disproportionate. THAT was the time to fight this insanity not now. Now we just look like a bunch of indecisive twats.
Swampy, you need to MAKE things to break into the asian markets - we dont anymore, and what we do produce someone only has to subsidize their own producers for a year or two to drive our guys under. Plus far east manufacturers csn pay peanuts for wages. We are economicalky destitute and all the big leave voices are cynically moving their business OUT of the UK. Rees Mogg has moved his company HQs to Dublin (nothing to do with him, mind you, he only owns them) and Dyson has moved his HQ and his new manufacturing plant to the far east (Singapore)
Brexit will make the poor, poorer
and blind optimism that somehow we were great when we had an Empire and can be great again just wont put food on the table. Theres a reason most educated people voted remain, and thats because leaving is fucking stupid


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Dazzle1 »

I am not from the U.K but opponents of Brexit never understood why it passed.

It was the arrogance of the EU beuracrats in Brussells in local affairs and extremist positions of their foriegn policy.

Most people in the U.K are Pro American and Pro Israel. even with Trump



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by tallyho »

The EU only has a say in around 1% of decisions on public spending in Westminster.
Brexit got thru because people confused the issues and policies of central govt. that were letting them down with the EU being responsible. 2/3 of immigration is from OUTSIDE EU countries which the UK is totally in control of and can stop or reduce it whenever it wants but that became a leading issue and Brexiteers labelled all immigration as down tko EU 'forcing ' us to accept people coming to UK.
The reality is most of the jobs these people 'took' were low paid crappy jobs that British kids didnt want to do in the first place, like picking strawberries for 9 hours a day for minimum wage. 70 % of the staff at my dads nursing home are Eastern European because brits dont want to clean up old peoples' piss and shit for £7 an hour.
They want to be famous and on the X Factor.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Except it isn't just low paid rubbish jobs. Germany have a laaarge percentage of automotive jobs that could easily be done in the UK, and were destined to be - but the Germans grab every job they can. It's been happening for decades.

The EU puts the UK at a fundamental disadvantage to our major competitor, Germany. This is the entire point the EU was founded, to stifle competition between colonial powers. It is the reason it exists.

We need to free ourselves of the restraint it's putting upon us, and work with new partners outside the EU protection racket.

Yes, we need to make things - but the right things. The UK is one of the top countries for producing high tech military, aerospace, and space technology - and we have some of the best talent in that arena.

We do not need to make anything more to trade with Asia than the EU - in fact, we need to make less. We have one of the best Service economies in the world - that is our major export.

Buying cheap goods from Asia? Great. I'll have a new iPad at half the price.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Except it isn't just low paid rubbish jobs. Germany have a laaarge percentage of automotive jobs that could easily be done in the UK, and were destined to be - but the Germans grab every job they can. It's been happening for decades.
Except the UK makes more cars today than it ever has in the past. It makes ships, something that germany has never been able to do. UK makes the wings for almost all airbus planes. Fashion, pharma, tech all boom in UK. Economy running at almost 100% employment pre brexit even with 400 million people having the freedom to look for work in UK for 3 months.

The problem with the UK was never all the extra freedoms being in the UK gave its citizens (including the free trade guaranteed to most developing countries in Africa). The problem is government after government concentrating all political, financial and economic development in London.

Hence why the brexiteers are in meltdown now that reality is biting.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Except it isn't just low paid rubbish jobs. Germany have a laaarge percentage of automotive jobs that could easily be done in the UK, and were destined to be - but the Germans grab every job they can. It's been happening for decades.
Except the UK makes more cars today than it ever has in the past. It makes ships, something that germany has never been able to do. UK makes the wings for almost all airbus planes. Fashion, pharma, tech all boom in UK. Economy running at almost 100% employment pre brexit even with 400 million people having the freedom to look for work in UK for 3 months.

The problem with the UK was never all the extra freedoms being in the UK gave its citizens (including the free trade guaranteed to most developing countries in Africa). The problem is government after government concentrating all political, financial and economic development in London.

Hence why the brexiteers are in meltdown now that reality is biting.
London was where the stay in the EU vote were concentrated. Metro areas seems to be more liberal and dismissive of the concerns of other parts of their nations, look at NY and SF in the U.S.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Void »

Another referendum for a clear mandate seems like the only credibly democratic way to end the deadlock. Or just momentarily kill the democratic process to force through a no deal and end the Groundhog day simulator. Either way it has to end and actual governance has to resume - at least until Sturgeon uses this to resurrect indyref 2, and we get to do it all again in Scotland.

Yay for Sovereignty.


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Another referendum for a clear mandate seems like the only credibly democratic way to end the deadlock. Or just momentarily kill the democratic process to force through a no deal and end the Groundhog day simulator. Either way it has to end and actual governance has to resume - at least until Sturgeon uses this to resurrect indyref 2, and we get to do it all again in Scotland.

Yay for Sovereignty.
Problem is if Brexit loses.

all those for it will rightly call foul.

As a President said "elections have consequences"



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by tallyho »

^^^ I dont think you can say 'rightly' when they were promised a pack of undeliverable lies , which surprise, surprise, has proved undeliverable.
Theres nothing foul about holding a vote on progressing with a disaster or reverting back to the status quo, given election spending rules were breached , given Russia had active media campaigns on Facebook and Twitter to influence the result, and given they were promised a new hospital every week.


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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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^^^ I dont think you can say 'rightly' when they were promised a pack of undeliverable lies , which surprise, surprise, has proved undeliverable.
Theres nothing foul about holding a vote on progressing with a disaster or reverting back to the status quo, given election spending rules were breached , given Russia had active media campaigns on Facebook and Twitter to influence the result, and given they were promised a new hospital every week.
The vote as I recall was leaving the EU.

I think the U.K has been very reasonable, it is the EU who is refusing to respect the U.K



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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^^^ I dont think you can say 'rightly' when they were promised a pack of undeliverable lies , which surprise, surprise, has proved undeliverable.
Theres nothing foul about holding a vote on progressing with a disaster or reverting back to the status quo, given election spending rules were breached , given Russia had active media campaigns on Facebook and Twitter to influence the result, and given they were promised a new hospital every week.
Clearly you're not up to date on the investigations into the referendum.

The Brexit parliamentary committee published them - GCHQ found no Russian link, that was fake news created by the Remain side. You are equating Cambridge Analytica and Russian interference with the US elections - two very different things.

The financial figures on both sides were deeply flawed. The Brexit dividend, indeed - but also the apocalyptic figures quoted by the Remain side that have never materialised. The Remain campaign misused treasury resources - and accordingly also recieved a slap on the wrist.

Both sides were dishonest, the amount of extra funding for leave is really rather nominal. Those "experts" touting it as having a major effect are being intellectually dishonest.

The UK electorate, contrary to popular belief, is decently informed. Those 17.4 million voting out did so knowing the EU membership was not, to them, a benefit. Seeing their jobs at risk with companies able to freely transfer work between European nations.

Globalism to the working classes has been a race to the bottom. As evidenced by the yawing gap between the well off and everyone else in all developed nations.

Brexit is seen as an engine for change, and if it does not succeed civil unrest will follow - undoubtedly.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Dogfish »

I did not expect Boris Johnson being PM to be this funny. What a tool that man is. I suspect he's in Number Ten right now shouting at a cursed monkey paw.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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The vote as I recall was leaving the EU.

I think the U.K has been very reasonable, it is the EU who is refusing to respect the U.K
Leaving the EU appears to mean different things to different people from clean break to Canada deal, to Norway deal to EEA, to EFTA to single market participation.

Difficult to say the EU is not respecting the UK when it's the UK that has asked time an again for extensions, demanded deal changes and then said "we can't live with these deal changes that we demanded".

But, Boris performance this week has been a majestic Hindenburg reenactment and the plan to get an election has run into the sand (surprising because red conservative Crobyn was all for an election) leaving all these election plans that are halfway into action flapping in the wind.

Loving KFC being drawn into it and ramping up copyright claims against the Tories now. Such a car crash. A gift that keeps on giving.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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The vote as I recall was leaving the EU.

I think the U.K has been very reasonable, it is the EU who is refusing to respect the U.K
Leaving the EU appears to mean different things to different people from clean break to Canada deal, to Norway deal to EEA, to EFTA to single market participation.

Difficult to say the EU is not respecting the UK when it's the UK that has asked time an again for extensions, demanded deal changes and then said "we can't live with these deal changes that we demanded".

But, Boris performance this week has been a majestic Hindenburg reenactment and the plan to get an election has run into the sand (surprising because red conservative Crobyn was all for an election) leaving all these election plans that are halfway into action flapping in the wind.

Loving KFC being drawn into it and ramping up copyright claims against the Tories now. Such a car crash. A gift that keeps on giving.
Depends how you look at it

I think the U.K owes the EU nothing. If anything the EU should be compensating the U.K

But what EU backers never realized that the EU leadership is held in almost as much contempt as the U.N leadership

If this had remained a loose confederation for trade as opposed to trying to be an equal weight and player to the U.S, Russia and China, the U.K would be staying

I predicted a long time ago the U.K or Germany would leave. And if a conservative party replaced Merkel it done



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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The vote as I recall was leaving the EU.

I think the U.K has been very reasonable, it is the EU who is refusing to respect the U.K
Leaving the EU appears to mean different things to different people from clean break to Canada deal, to Norway deal to EEA, to EFTA to single market participation.

Difficult to say the EU is not respecting the UK when it's the UK that has asked time an again for extensions, demanded deal changes and then said "we can't live with these deal changes that we demanded".

But, Boris performance this week has been a majestic Hindenburg reenactment and the plan to get an election has run into the sand (surprising because red conservative Crobyn was all for an election) leaving all these election plans that are halfway into action flapping in the wind.

Loving KFC being drawn into it and ramping up copyright claims against the Tories now. Such a car crash. A gift that keeps on giving.
Depends how you look at it

I think the U.K owes the EU nothing. If anything the EU should be compensating the U.K

But what EU backers never realized that the EU leadership is held in almost as much contempt as the U.N leadership

If this had remained a loose confederation for trade as opposed to trying to be an equal weight and player to the U.S, Russia and China, the U.K would be staying

I predicted a long time ago the U.K or Germany would leave. And if a conservative party replaced Merkel it done



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by scotscot »

I'm from the UK. :(
"I'm Brian and so's my wife!"

there's always one

Probably from Guernsey too
I'm from the UK too !
Go get em Boris .



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swampy170
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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by swampy170 »

Really though - Boris is doing rather well.

The opposition are playing their role perfectly - they have placed him in a corner, and cast themselves as the villains.

A majority of the country voted to leave, and the opposition parties are campaigning against that. Boris is campaigning for it, and could readilly claim he is being bullied due to that fact.

The British love an underdog, and he is also driving forward towards the referendum result - rather than away from it.

Combine that with the spending initiatives being announced on a daily basis - and no, Boris is not useless and thick. He is a shrewd strategist - exactly as you'd expect with the people running things in the background.

I also assume the Tories will pull the trigger on a pact with the Brexit Party so only Labour have their votes stolen.

The opposition are in for a rude awakening come election day.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by swampy170 »

The thing that really gets my goat about all this is the left of UK politics stating that Boris is Trump.

Anyone who does so, does not recognise what Trump is! - And that is scary, that at this point people do not have their eyes open to the danger in the US of entirely loosing democracy altogether.

Boris is a career politician, who has a well trodden voting record. He is using parliamentary process in a clever way - bending not breaking rules. He clearly respects democracy.

Those parties claiming he is being anti-democratic have changed their stance to remaining in the EU (which they campaigned on in the last GE) without a general election or referendum to ask the people, who in a majority voted to leave, if that's ok. THAT is the definition of anti-democratic.

60% of parliamentary contituencies in the UK voted leave, there should be ZERO issue getting legislation through parliament.

Poroguing parliament for 5 additional days (after 3 years of bickering), stopping opposition parties attempting to stifle democracy for a short while - is a democratic act.

Playing for time is a known tactic in UK parliament - and used to greatest effect under the last Labour government, calling important votes late in the evening to attempt to ensure no Tory opposition members were available to vote. Still used today of course, but less so.


Trump on the other hand, only sees political process as a hinderance. He is actively ignoring it - and profiteering off his power, out in the open. He is working to dismantle NATO working hand in hand with dictators globally. Notably he has close ties to Putin, and his actions reflect a bias towards Russia.

No, Boris is nothing like Trump.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Dazzle1 »

The thing that really gets my goat about all this is the left of UK politics stating that Boris is Trump.

Anyone who does so, does not recognise what Trump is! - And that is scary, that at this point people do not have their eyes open to the danger in the US of entirely loosing democracy altogether.

Boris is a career politician, who has a well trodden voting record. He is using parliamentary process in a clever way - bending not breaking rules. He clearly respects democracy.

Those parties claiming he is being anti-democratic have changed their stance to remaining in the EU (which they campaigned on in the last GE) without a general election or referendum to ask the people, who in a majority voted to leave, if that's ok. THAT is the definition of anti-democratic.

60% of parliamentary contituencies in the UK voted leave, there should be ZERO issue getting legislation through parliament.

Poroguing parliament for 5 additional days (after 3 years of bickering), stopping opposition parties attempting to stifle democracy for a short while - is a democratic act.

Playing for time is a known tactic in UK parliament - and used to greatest effect under the last Labour government, calling important votes late in the evening to attempt to ensure no Tory opposition members were available to vote. Still used today of course, but less so.


Trump on the other hand, only sees political process as a hinderance. He is actively ignoring it - and profiteering off his power, out in the open. He is working to dismantle NATO working hand in hand with dictators globally. Notably he has close ties to Putin, and his actions reflect a bias towards Russia.

No, Boris is nothing like Trump.

I agree Trump is an outsider and much I don't agree with him on.
but your point about him working with dictators is wrong, it applied more to Obama and how he worked with Iran, Cuba and islamic terror groups like the Moslem brotherhood

Trump has restored our relations with Israel, India and Japan, those three are more important than playing nice with the EU



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Depends how you look at it

I think the U.K owes the EU nothing. If anything the EU should be compensating the U.K

But what EU backers never realized that the EU leadership is held in almost as much contempt as the U.N leadership

If this had remained a loose confederation for trade as opposed to trying to be an equal weight and player to the U.S, Russia and China, the U.K would be staying

I predicted a long time ago the U.K or Germany would leave. And if a conservative party replaced Merkel it done
I mean, contractually. the UK owes the EU it's share of pension money for the people that have been employed in part by the UK for the past 40 years on typically generous government terms, but the EU does not have much of a mechanism to enforce that other than to refuse an FTA.

The EU leadership is the leadership of member states because the leadership is the council of europe which is the prime minister from each state, yes there is a "commission" that functions as a civil service but that has the job to propose regulatory alignments.

When you mention Russia, you may want to consider that even exculding the UK the top 7 of the EU economically decimate russia and outgun it, Russia is the sick man of europe with a lifeless economy and 30 years of outdated military.

Also, Angela Merkle has been head of the german conservative party for a couple of years now, I know that if you're not running around putting little kids in cages, having nazi marches and letting schools get shot up weekly that you might look "dangerously liberal" to american eyes but Christian Democrats have always been right wingers.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by lionbadger »

and now it seems like the UK will do a deal with US to export UK produce into the USA and keep low quality US stuff out of the UK........ seems plausible..........




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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by swampy170 »

I agree Trump is an outsider and much I don't agree with him on.
but your point about him working with dictators is wrong, it applied more to Obama and how he worked with Iran, Cuba and islamic terror groups like the Moslem brotherhood

Trump has restored our relations with Israel, India and Japan, those three are more important than playing nice with the EU
It's a false equivalency to compare what Trump is doing to what Obama did.

Trump is not working with the international community to contain the greater excesses of autocratic rule, he's instead working against the international community. This breaks with convention, the US are traditionally leading the way.

Instead the US are now trailing the rest of the world, and likely - their economy will soon follow suit. There is after all a crash coming, and the US is massively exposed. They will need to lean on allies they have recently been slapping across the face.


US relations with Israel were never strained.

US relations with India are at an all time low, the same with Japan. Countries are playing nice because they do want American custom - but make no mistake, we (the global community) see what the US is. It's a shadow of its former self, hollowed out by the corruption in it's politics. The outer shell with little substance behind will fall eventually.

***Edit: Obviously relations with Japan were worse during WW2 - but the worst since they've been a US ally***


Of course, the US could vote in a progressive voice and fix the damage - but an autocratic regieme lead by Trump is more likely the way things are going. Nazi Germany 2.0.

Too bad Americans seemingly are totally unaware how the Nazis they hate so much got into power. The exact same situation.

To simplify to the extreme - the leading party in the German government were worried about a rising populist faction, so they adopted the populist movement's figure head (Hitler), thinking they could control him. However, they ultimately lost control - releasing the scourge that was Nazi Germany on the world.

The GOP are not in charge of Trump any more, the strings are cut - the puppet is in control.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Dazzle1 »


Depends how you look at it

I think the U.K owes the EU nothing. If anything the EU should be compensating the U.K

But what EU backers never realized that the EU leadership is held in almost as much contempt as the U.N leadership

If this had remained a loose confederation for trade as opposed to trying to be an equal weight and player to the U.S, Russia and China, the U.K would be staying

I predicted a long time ago the U.K or Germany would leave. And if a conservative party replaced Merkel it done
I mean, contractually. the UK owes the EU it's share of pension money for the people that have been employed in part by the UK for the past 40 years on typically generous government terms, but the EU does not have much of a mechanism to enforce that other than to refuse an FTA.

The EU leadership is the leadership of member states because the leadership is the council of europe which is the prime minister from each state, yes there is a "commission" that functions as a civil service but that has the job to propose regulatory alignments.

When you mention Russia, you may want to consider that even exculding the UK the top 7 of the EU economically decimate russia and outgun it, Russia is the sick man of europe with a lifeless economy and 30 years of outdated military.

Also, Angela Merkle has been head of the german conservative party for a couple of years now, I know that if you're not running around putting little kids in cages, having nazi marches and letting schools get shot up weekly that you might look "dangerously liberal" to american eyes but Christian Democrats have always been right wingers.

Merkel is no conservative, despite the party name



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by Dazzle1 »

I agree Trump is an outsider and much I don't agree with him on.
but your point about him working with dictators is wrong, it applied more to Obama and how he worked with Iran, Cuba and islamic terror groups like the Moslem brotherhood

Trump has restored our relations with Israel, India and Japan, those three are more important than playing nice with the EU
It's a false equivalency to compare what Trump is doing to what Obama did.

Trump is not working with the international community to contain the greater excesses of autocratic rule, he's instead working against the international community. This breaks with convention, the US are traditionally leading the way.

Instead the US are now trailing the rest of the world, and likely - their economy will soon follow suit. There is after all a crash coming, and the US is massively exposed. They will need to lean on allies they have recently been slapping across the face.


US relations with Israel were never strained.

US relations with India are at an all time low, the same with Japan. Countries are playing nice because they do want American custom - but make no mistake, we (the global community) see what the US is. It's a shadow of its former self, hollowed out by the corruption in it's politics. The outer shell with little substance behind will fall eventually.

***Edit: Obviously relations with Japan were worse during WW2 - but the worst since they've been a US ally***


Of course, the US could vote in a progressive voice and fix the damage - but an autocratic regieme lead by Trump is more likely the way things are going. Nazi Germany 2.0.

Too bad Americans seemingly are totally unaware how the Nazis they hate so much got into power. The exact same situation.

To simplify to the extreme - the leading party in the German government were worried about a rising populist faction, so they adopted the populist movement's figure head (Hitler), thinking they could control him. However, they ultimately lost control - releasing the scourge that was Nazi Germany on the world.

The GOP are not in charge of Trump any more, the strings are cut - the puppet is in control.
----------------

You are suffering from TDS

India and Abe have far better relations with Trump than Obama did, as does Brazil.

Trump was elected despite the dirty tricks and illegal actions taken by Obama to elect Hillary.

The progressives would bring in a real dictatorship, telling us what to eat,to drive and how to think



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by bushwackerbob »

It is certainly true that Trump does not work with the international community. I think that as Americans, we must face some unpleasant facts of life. Regardless of whom is in the oval office, America has far less influence in the world compared to thirty or forty years ago. Unless we are going to drop bombs on every nation that disagrees with us (bad idea) there is very little we can do about it. Trump probably figures the game of geopolitics is kind of like the game of chess, and if you are unable to move the pieces on the board effectively anymore then why try to play the game. I think that Trump no longer sees the U.S in it's role as world policeman any longer and will only act if he feels that U.S national security is at stake. It is no secret that President Obama and the Israeli Prime Minister did not have a good relationship. there is a lot of information out there to support that. In fact, there were a number of President Obama's campaign operatives that actually worked for The Israeli PM 's opponent in one of the elections. Regarding Trump being a Nazi 2.0, Trump's daughter married a Jewish man, converted to his religion and has gave birth to Jewish children. The GOP establishment have never controlled Trump, they never wanted him to be President, they would have clearly preferred any of the other candidates, it was a shotgun wedding between Trump and the GOP since he was inaugurated because he was not from or of Washington, not from the swamp, and was not a well dressed prostitute constantly willing to sell their souls for campaign funds provided by special interests and lobbyists like the rest of Washington politicians.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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Merkel is no conservative, despite the party name
Most Germans are pretty conservative and would point to the strength and inflexibility of their economic rules as evidence.

She did after all have practically open borders which is borderline libertarian.

Saddest thing about brexit is the conservative government of the UK stripping citizens of their hard won freedoms.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by ttb51m »

I grew up in Aberdeen till I was 14, the UK is southern scotland rt?



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by lionbadger »

I understand you would have trouble delivering a volley to some haribo then?



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by lionbadger »

I know we shouldn't resurrect these random topics but after yesterday I have to add a "Supreme Court lolz"



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by swampy170 »

I mean, sure - it went against the government.

But it's not really that humourous.

It's set a really terrible precident, one that will come back to bite the remain status-quo loving side.

As you'll know - there is no UK constitution, it's all based on case law. As such, a case such as this has lasting repercussions.

The repercussions? The court can intervene in politics, the separation of judiciary and politics has been damaged irreparably - but consequences be damned as long as we can remain in the EU, right? ....

Total idiocy on the part of the judges, entertaining the change. They should have followed the High court's judgement rather than the Scot's.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

Post by swampy170 »

Further to wrecking the judicary - this case places representative politics potentially over that of direct democracy, crystalising the imbalance. These are the 2 pillars of democracy in the UK - this case potentially undermining direct democracy.

Should there be a 2nd referendum, be sure to expect the result to be challenged in the supreme court.

An incredibly dangerous precedent - something that has lead to essentially every revolution that has ever occured.



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Re: The absolute meltdown of the British Government

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