Sasha Calle as DCEU's Supergirl

[DrDominator9]

A Canadian and a Brit getting into an argument? That's got to be a first.

[Damselbinder]

No dude, not even a little bit. Sheesh.

To my (admittedly ancient, I'm 56) eyes, the whole racial appropriation thing has gone too far. I'm mocking THAT, not you. Your post does a good job of laying out the current, angsty reality of being part of the dominant culture while trying to be open to more fairness.

Oh geez. I'm very sorry then, Bert. Forgive me for being suspicious.

[Bert]

A Canadian and a Brit getting into an argument? That's got to be a first.

Grin! Nope, not this time. No argument here. I have a question though. I get that the term U.K. refers to England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, but is "British" unique to the people of England? Or are you British? Or have I just insulted you??

Oh crap. Sorry Doc, I got you mixed up with Tally!

[Bert]

No dude, not even a little bit. Sheesh.

To my (admittedly ancient, I'm 56) eyes, the whole racial appropriation thing has gone too far. I'm mocking THAT, not you. Your post does a good job of laying out the current, angsty reality of being part of the dominant culture while trying to be open to more fairness.

Oh geez. I'm very sorry then, Bert. Forgive me for being suspicious.

No worries. From your perspective I can understand the suspicion.

[DrDominator9]

A Canadian and a Brit getting into an argument? That's got to be a first.

Grin! Nope, not this time. No argument here. I have a question though. I get that the term U.K. refers to England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, but is "British" unique to the people of England? Or are you British? Or have I just insulted you??

You talkin' to me? I'm an American. I don't think the English consider it an insult to be called a Brit but you need to ask them. Now, if you call them Limey, that's less cool. That expression came from the days when scurvy was an issue because sailors spent months at sea. The British vessels carried limes to offset the chance of scurvy and other sailors began calling the English soldiers "Limeys."

If you call them Over-Colonizing Bastards, they may take that badly too.


Sorry to be derailing this thread. We should get back to Sasha.

[Bert]

A Canadian and a Brit getting into an argument? That's got to be a first.

Grin! Nope, not this time. No argument here. I have a question though. I get that the term U.K. refers to England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, but is "British" unique to the people of England? Or are you British? Or have I just insulted you??

You talkin' to me? I'm an American. I don't think the English consider it an insult to be called a Brit but you need to ask them. Now, if you call them Limey, that's less cool. That expression came from the days when scurvy was an issue because sailors spent months at sea. The British vessels carried limes to offset the chance of scurvy and other sailors began calling the English soldiers "Limeys."

If you call them Over-Colonizing Bastards, they may take that badly too.

I just edited that post, but not in time, I see. Got you mixed up with that limey Tally!

[Damselbinder]

A Canadian and a Brit getting into an argument? That's got to be a first.

Grin! Nope, not this time. No argument here. I have a question though. I get that the term U.K. refers to England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, but is "British" unique to the people of England? Or are you British? Or have I just insulted you??

"British" means someone from England, Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland. Being English, I am both English and British. Even if, say, Scotland were to leave the U.K., by a certain metric they would still be British, because 'Britain' is the name of the island of which Scotland is a part. But then, we don't call people from the Republic of Ireland British even though Ireland is still in 'the British Isles'.

[Bert]

Ah! Thanks!

[DrDominator9]

I just edited that post, but not in time, I see. Got you mixed up with that limey Tally!

Oh boy, now you've done it!! Calling Tally a limey will get you banned faster than anything you can think of!! The man is Welsh. Technically a Brit, but they barely consider themselves that: And they take exception to being labelled English. You better hope he's not listening in!

[Damselbinder]

I just edited that post, but not in time, I see. Got you mixed up with that limey Tally!

Oh boy, now you've done it!! Calling Tally a limey will get you banned faster than anything you can think of!! The man is Welsh. Technically a Brit, but they barely consider themselves that: And they take exception to being labelled English. You better hope he's not listening in!

I can assure you, the feeling is mutual.

[Bert]

I just edited that post, but not in time, I see. Got you mixed up with that limey Tally!

Oh boy, now you've done it!! Calling Tally a limey will get you banned faster than anything you can think of!! The man is Welsh. Technically a Brit, but they barely consider themselves that: And they take exception to being labelled English. You better hope he's not listening in!

Yeah, and that one was on purpose!

[Bert]

I just edited that post, but not in time, I see. Got you mixed up with that limey Tally!

Oh boy, now you've done it!! Calling Tally a limey will get you banned faster than anything you can think of!! The man is Welsh. Technically a Brit, but they barely consider themselves that: And they take exception to being labelled English. You better hope he's not listening in!

I can assure you, the feeling is mutual.

Grin!

[tallyho]

I just want to point out that 68 countries have the UK to thank for their Independence Day, you lot included

BRITISH COVERS ALL 4 Nations England Ireland Scotland and Wales (they are always put in order from least important to most, but we tell the English it's alphabetical order ) as they are the British Isles. (Ireland is Partitioned into the North (British) and the South (Drunk) with South being the independent nation of Eire. (pronounced Air- Ah))
Ireland Scotland Wales are collectively the Celtic Nations. As they were the areas where the Celts were pushed to by the Roman conquest of Europe.
But Scotland and Ireland have a lot of Gaelic history between the two, and can be called the Gaelic Nations. (as the outer Scottish Islands still speak Gael in a few areas)
The UK is, in full, the UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN and NORTHERN IRELAND.

So as a Welsh man you can call me Welsh, a Celt, a Brit just NOT English.

On the topic of Sasha I don't have an issue if she is a Supergirl type character but for me she isn't SG as I perceive her.
Colour Blind casting was mentioned I am in favour of it in general roles but I don't think historical characters should be played by ethnic actors if they were not originally ethnic. Nelsons Navy had perhaps as many as 15% of its sailors as black. If a production wants to represent all that diversity I am all for it. If they have a black actor playing Captain Hardy I am against it regardless of the actors ability because it creates a false impression on the younger viewers. I believe they need to appreciate how the world is changing around them. I wouldn't want to see a white guy play Nelson Mandela either. As for fictional characters it's more murky. I don't see why the Danvers couldn't be an ethnic couple who adopted a white SG and raised her in a loving home with strong moral values. But I struggle with a non blonde SG in the same way I would struggle to accept a fat middle aged Spiderman. There's no real reason why it can't be... But that's not the character as most of the world perceives it.

[Bert]

Thanks! I'm sure all of that seems painfully obvious to you lot, but it was right up there with the rules of cricket to me!

[Deceiver]

So as a Welsh man you can call me Welsh, a Celt, a Brit just NOT English.

I always found it funny in one of the Wonder Woman episodes, from the first season, where there's a Welsh nationalist. Out of all the shows you might expect a Welsh nationalist, you wouldn't have thought it to be in an American super heroine TV show from the 1970s...

[bushwackerbob]

Personally for me I would not mind them casting a Latina. I think if the character was more iconically defined, that there would be more folks that might have a problem reimagining the character with a different race... Bottom line, if the actress is good, then it sounds like a good choice to me.

Bushwacker - not trying to cause a fuss here, but could you tell me please how long it would take to iconically define a character?
Supergirl was introduced over SIXTY YEARS ago, and except for the Cir-El version (who is a villainess anyway) she has looked pretty
much the same the entire time in every possible medium. Just want to understand what your definition of 'iconic' entails.

Maybe I used the wrong word to try and make my point. What I meant is that I feel that the Superman, Batman, and Wonder Woman characters for example have such a clear and memorable history in film, TV, and comics, that in a sense in my view, changing the ethnicity of the character would not work because most folks have indelible images of those characters as white and that bridge would be too far to overcome in order for fans to come around and support a different ethnicity for those iconic characters. I know that Supergirl was created 60 years ago but I would make the argument that her character has not resonated with audiences at the same level as Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and perhaps others, so changing the character's ethnicity would be an easier thing to do because her character is not as indelibly defined as a white blonde babe as much as the other more identifiable DC comic characters. We have had a Supergirl film that has attained a cult status for some, but was thought to be a box office bomb at the time, Laura Vandervoort's nice little run on Smallville, and CW series that some people love, some people hate, and some people love to hate, a show that had such poor ratings that it got dumped by CBS and landed on the much less watched CW network, a show that never caught fire with audiences enough to create enough of an indelible image to cement that blonde, white woman image in my view.

[theScribbler]

There's a Black Superman movie from J.J. Abrams in the works...

ta-nehisi-coates-to-write-new-superman-movie-for-warner-bros

[bushwackerbob]

Yes, I read that a couple days ago as well. I will take a pass on that one.

[tallyho]

So as a Welsh man you can call me Welsh, a Celt, a Brit just NOT English.

I always found it funny in one of the Wonder Woman episodes, from the first season, where there's a Welsh nationalist. Out of all the shows you might expect a Welsh nationalist, you wouldn't have thought it to be in an American super heroine TV show from the 1970s...

They actually wrote that very well and there were a lot of references that only someone who understood the politics of the situation could have written

[Dazzle1]

There's a Black Superman movie from J.J. Abrams in the works...

ta-nehisi-coates-to-write-new-superman-movie-for-warner-bros

I am more concerned about Coats doing the writing or Abrams track record with Star Trek and Star Wars franchises than a black Superman.

But will this be Kal-el/Clark Kent or another Kryptonian

[shevek]

never caught fire with audiences enough to create enough of an indelible image to cement that blonde, white woman image in my view.

Bushwacker, we may just have to agree to disagree here, but let me try to sway you.

Any character that's had an established appearance for at least two generations - let's say 30-40 years - in a wide array of mediums
is certainly 'indelible' enough and has a wide enough fanbase to boot. You downplay the audience numbers of the Benoist show, and yet the show still had millions of watchers worldwide and was the most successful iteration of the Supergirl character by far. It's what set the stage for the ability to place a Supergirl character in a DCU vehicle in the first place: Melissa directly paved the way for Sasha Calle.

I'll leave any further doubt about the 'indelibility' of Supergirl in the hands of our esteemed fellow forum colleague Red Five. His Supergirl blog is the definitive source for the character's appearances. Sixty years is more than enough to establish the appearance of Kara Zor-El. https://maidofmight.wordpress.com/

As for the other related topic which Dazzle and others have brought up.....

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black.

The shame is that meanwhile a show like Black Lightning, which contains all original black DC characters (not swapped ones) and has provided strong action-packed plots, is really not getting any attention from anyone. That's because creating original characters or foregrounding lesser-known characters that the mainstream hasn't heard of doesn't earn you the kind of cultural cachet and media attention that you get if you simply turn Superman black. It's laziness - no one is willing to put in the time to establish characters and grow their popularity over the long haul. Instead, it's mostly just a naked and immediate grab for power.

[five_red]

I wasn't going to post this link (smacks too much of shameless self promotion) but as people are talking about how past depictions of Supergirl on screen have influenced Kara's image with the general public, I might as well make my contribution by sharing a blog post I scrawled about one particular important way that I feel the character has been let down by directors and producers.

DCEU’s Supergirl: we don’t need another “Superman with boobs”

(Note: I'm not anti the CW show per se, but the post happens to deal with the one major misjustjce I think the series did the character. If you have a particular fondness for the Benoist show, consider this your trigger warning )

R5

[shevek]

I wasn't going to post this link (smacks too much of shameless self promotion) but as people are talking about how past depictions of Supergirl on screen have influenced Kara's image with the general public, I might as well make my contribution by sharing a blog post I scrawled about one particular important way that I feel the character has been let down by directors and producers.
DCEU’s Supergirl: we don’t need another “Superman with boobs”
(Note: I'm not anti the CW show per se, but the post happens to deal with the one major misjustjce I think the series did the character. If you have a particular fondness for the Benoist show, consider this your trigger warning )
R5

Hey RedFive - That was a beautiful and heartfelt essay, and I understand where you're coming from. Plus, as I'm reading the article, it's not a bad thing that I get to look at the two incredibly beautiful actresses who both did such an awesome job representing the character (oh..and Laura too...) as well as one of the most classic George Perez artworks of all time (and you know how much I like George in both his mainstream and SHIP careers).

But there are some shortcomings to your overall argument:

1) The very idea of Supergirl is as a "distaff" character, just like Batgirl. Therefore, she can certainly have her own life and background, but she is inextricably bound to the Superman mythos both by creative intent and by heritage. She is part of the "Superman Family" as sure as Batgirl and Batwoman are part of the "Bat Family" of characters. She is therefore conceptually "Superman with boobs" whether you would like her to be, or not.

2) Yes, they pretty much took the Superman mythos wholesale to create content for the Benoist show. However, I think there was a reason for that: they could NOT do a Superman show (at least not until very recently). Superman was a character for the movies, while Supergirl was a character for the TV. Therefore, it stands to reason that it would be fine to use a lot of Superman content for the Supergirl TV show, since that is what the audience would expect anyway.

I mean, how much 100% "Supergirl content" is there, anyway? By which I mean, how many characters and villains appeared ONLY in Supergirl comics and nowhere else. Not a hell of a lot. And they did use some of that anyway (such as the villainess Psi). if I have one regret (among many) about the Benoist show, it's that they didn't use ENOUGH deep Superman lore, especially the sexy supervillainess kind - I mean, where is Rose & Thorn, and where is Rampage, and I would have liked to see a bit more of Maxima. For that matter, why couldn't Super Girl do a bit of a world tour, fighting foes in various countries: she visits Icemaiden in Norway, Crimson Fox in France, Maya in India, and Fire in Brazil?

3) Finally, here is the crown jewel to my argument. Supergirl is Superman with boobs, sure. But POWER GIRL is a totally separate character. She wound up having quite a bit of her own mythos, and the Amanda Conner "Power Trip" run even gave her a series of her own supervillains (yes, some of which were shared with Superman, but still...). So my argument is, if you want to develop a separate Kryptonian character with her own vibe, you don't just suddenly make Supergirl into a Latina. You make a Power Girl TV show instead, or start putting her as a guest into some DCU movies! (Of course, that's just a dream that I'm sure many of us have, but it still rings true.)

Anyway, much respect to your amazing work as usual, Red Five.

[five_red]

I mean, how much 100% "Supergirl content" is there, anyway? By which I mean, how many characters and villains appeared ONLY in Supergirl comics and nowhere else. Not a hell of a lot. And they did use some of that anyway (such as the villainess Psi).

• Lesla-Lar - a Kandorian scientist who has a habit of stealing Kara's identity and working with villains like Lex Luthor and General Zod. After being betrayed by Zod her body is destroyed but her consciousness lives on as an energy that can possess other people. She becomes unhinged, convinced she is Kara's twin sister, and sets out to permanently inhabit Kara's body.

• Rachael Berkowitz aka Blackstarr - a Jewish child, is experimented on by Nazi sympathising scientists, and turned into the Neo-Nazi villain Blackstarr. As Blackstarr Rachael has the ability to control the fundamental building blocks of Nature, in later adventures she's even shown tapping into the awesome power of black holes. How to defeat Blackstarr was actually the source of a minor falling out between Superman and Supergirl in the latter's final proper pre-Crisis story.

• Buzz - part friend, part foe, Buzz is a charming but manipulative acquaintance of Linda Danvers, who dabbles in the black arts and (initially) runs his own satanic cult. He is a deeply ambiguous character, who is driven by his own self interest and ability to corrupt the people around him using his black magic, but after circumstances force him to act as Supergirl's sidekick he starts to show small hints of selflessness.

• Nasthalthia 'Nasty' Luthor - niece of Lex Luthor, who starts out being recruited by her uncle to investigate Supergirl's contacts with the students of Stanhope University, but becomes convinced that Linda Danvers is secretly Supergirl. She becomes obsessed with destroying Supergirl by exposing her true identity, even following Linda after she leaves Stanhope.

• Elizabeth Perske - Lex Luthor's rich and powerful ex-wife, who enlists Supergirl as an ally in her covert attacks on her former husband.

• Starfire - a rich and powerful Bond-villain style character, who manipulates clueless hunk Derek Ames into seducing Supergirl and drugging her with a formula that strips away her powers. The formula is only partly successful, and Supergirl's powers start to fade in and out at random for months.

• Shyla Kor-Onn - Kandorian scientist who adopts the secret identity of a university scientist as the cover to devise technology that drains students of their life force to add to her own (not unlike a vampire.) Her ultimate aim is, however, to drain Supergirl of her powers. In a later story she tries to get Kara imprisoned in a Kandorian jail by using a brain scan of Lex Luthor as evidence. (Spoiler: his memories are actually false, part of a failed plot by Lesla-Lar pretending to be Kara.)

• Andy Jones - stand-up comic, and friend of Linda Danvers, who is secretly the Earth Angel, Comet.

• Cutter Sharp - honest but downtrodden friend of Linda Danvers, who is always coming up with schemes to improve his lot. He tries to sell merchandise based on Supergirl without asking her permission, and later talks himself into being her public relations manager. He's enthusiastic, not very bright, and somewhat deluded about his business abilities.

• The Gang - super-powered thieves who work for the illusive Lester Adams, stealing aerospace technologies from research labs. (The group includes Psi, who would later be used in the show.)

• Philip Decker - boyfriend of Linda 'Hot Dog' Danvers, who Kara eventually suspects is cheating on her. When she confronts him about his frequent unexplained absences, he turns the tables on her and asks about her frequent disappearances. Realising she can't reveal her alter ego, Linda is forced to drop the relationship.

• Streaky the Super Cat - no explanation needed. The coolest character in the DCU.

Those are a few of the most interesting characters from the first few decade of Kara's adventures. There's enough material there, what with neo-nazis, ex-wives, troublesome boyfriends, and Kandorian vampires, to provide enough interesting story arcs for at least a few seasons.

R5

[Dazzle1]

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black

----
But is it a trend that there was a fan demand for? or was it agenda by the writers for their SJW reason or by a tiny minority?

Using the DR Who example there was no great fan demand to see a female Doctor, but the BBC and left wing activists, many who have no knowledge of the show pushed it.

[Damselbinder]

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black

----
But is it a trend that there was a fan demand for? or was it agenda by the writers for their SJW reason or by a tiny minority?

Using the DR Who example there was no great fan demand to see a female Doctor, but the BBC and left wing activists, many who have no knowledge of the show pushed it.

There was widespread demand for a female Doctor, or at least widespread interest. But also, even if there hadn't been, it wouldn't matter. The Doctor is an alien who spontaneously grows a new body when they face death. The Master regenerated into a woman, and that was very well received. If there were ever an excuse to change the gender of an iconic character, this would be it. The Doctor can be black, white, male, female, whatever. And then they can change back again.

[batgirl1969]

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black

----
But is it a trend that there was a fan demand for? or was it agenda by the writers for their SJW reason or by a tiny minority?

Using the DR Who example there was no great fan demand to see a female Doctor, but the BBC and left wing activists, many who have no knowledge of the show pushed it.

There was widespread demand for a female Doctor, or at least widespread interest. But also, even if there hadn't been, it wouldn't matter. The Doctor is an alien who spontaneously grows a new body when they face death. The Master regenerated into a woman, and that was very well received. If there were ever an excuse to change the gender of an iconic character, this would be it. The Doctor can be black, white, male, female, whatever. And then they can change back again.

BUT apparently they can't be a GINGER!! lol that crackes me up when 10 said "Still not Ginger!"

[Damselbinder]

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black

----
But is it a trend that there was a fan demand for? or was it agenda by the writers for their SJW reason or by a tiny minority?

Using the DR Who example there was no great fan demand to see a female Doctor, but the BBC and left wing activists, many who have no knowledge of the show pushed it.

There was widespread demand for a female Doctor, or at least widespread interest. But also, even if there hadn't been, it wouldn't matter. The Doctor is an alien who spontaneously grows a new body when they face death. The Master regenerated into a woman, and that was very well received. If there were ever an excuse to change the gender of an iconic character, this would be it. The Doctor can be black, white, male, female, whatever. And then they can change back again.

BUT apparently they can't be a GINGER!! lol that crackes me up when 10 said "Still not Ginger!"

That was 11.

[batgirl1969]

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black

----
But is it a trend that there was a fan demand for? or was it agenda by the writers for their SJW reason or by a tiny minority?

Using the DR Who example there was no great fan demand to see a female Doctor, but the BBC and left wing activists, many who have no knowledge of the show pushed it.

There was widespread demand for a female Doctor, or at least widespread interest. But also, even if there hadn't been, it wouldn't matter. The Doctor is an alien who spontaneously grows a new body when they face death. The Master regenerated into a woman, and that was very well received. If there were ever an excuse to change the gender of an iconic character, this would be it. The Doctor can be black, white, male, female, whatever. And then they can change back again.

BUT apparently they can't be a GINGER!! lol that crackes me up when 10 said "Still not Ginger!"

That was 11.

I am referring to when 10 first said it in the Christmas episode, did NOT like 11, loved 10

[Dazzle1]

Right now, in addition to the proposed Superman movie to star Michael B. Jordan (who would play an alternate universe Superman named Calvin Ellis, who is also the President of the United States), there is a DC Future State comic book with a black Batman, a young adult novel with a black teen version of Wonder Woman (Nubia: Real One), and a TV show (beloved by Maskripper) with a black Batwoman. Whether or not you agree with it, swapping has become quite a trend, and the vast majority of it has gone in two directions: male to female, and white to black

----
But is it a trend that there was a fan demand for? or was it agenda by the writers for their SJW reason or by a tiny minority?

Using the DR Who example there was no great fan demand to see a female Doctor, but the BBC and left wing activists, many who have no knowledge of the show pushed it.

There was widespread demand for a female Doctor, or at least widespread interest. But also, even if there hadn't been, it wouldn't matter. The Doctor is an alien who spontaneously grows a new body when they face death. The Master regenerated into a woman, and that was very well received. If there were ever an excuse to change the gender of an iconic character, this would be it. The Doctor can be black, white, male, female, whatever. And then they can change back again.

There was no widespread demand, Chibnal promoted that to get his demand as showrunner.

No Missy was not well recieved , anymore than Calpaldi was well recieved.

The fact is that the Time Lords did not change gender until retconned. The 4 most prominent Gallifreyans: the Doctor, the Master, Romana and Borusa never did

Just look at the fan ratings on rotten Tomatoes.

[Mr. X]

I think they could have had the Dr. dying and a new, young, first life Gallifreyan inherits the tardis and starts calling themselves the doctor. Then they could have some interesting stories about him/her learning the ropes, making mistakes, trying different things. Just let the original die and move on. Now death means nothing.

In fact as a twist they could have the master assume the Doctor role kind of like they had Loki be Sorcerer Supreme or Dr. Doom be Ironman.

[shevek]

I mean, how much 100% "Supergirl content" is there, anyway? By which I mean, how many characters and villains appeared ONLY in Supergirl comics and nowhere else. Not a hell of a lot. And they did use some of that anyway (such as the villainess Psi).

• Lesla-Lar - a Kandorian scientist who has a habit of stealing Kara's identity and working with villains like Lex Luthor and General Zod. After being betrayed by Zod her body is destroyed but her consciousness lives on as an energy that can possess other people. She becomes unhinged, convinced she is Kara's twin sister, and sets out to permanently inhabit Kara's body.

• Rachael Berkowitz aka Blackstarr - a Jewish child, is experimented on by Nazi sympathising scientists, and turned into the Neo-Nazi villain Blackstarr. As Blackstarr Rachael has the ability to control the fundamental building blocks of Nature, in later adventures she's even shown tapping into the awesome power of black holes. How to defeat Blackstarr was actually the source of a minor falling out between Superman and Supergirl in the latter's final proper pre-Crisis story.

• Buzz - part friend, part foe, Buzz is a charming but manipulative acquaintance of Linda Danvers, who dabbles in the black arts and (initially) runs his own satanic cult. He is a deeply ambiguous character, who is driven by his own self interest and ability to corrupt the people around him using his black magic, but after circumstances force him to act as Supergirl's sidekick he starts to show small hints of selflessness.

• Nasthalthia 'Nasty' Luthor - niece of Lex Luthor, who starts out being recruited by her uncle to investigate Supergirl's contacts with the students of Stanhope University, but becomes convinced that Linda Danvers is secretly Supergirl. She becomes obsessed with destroying Supergirl by exposing her true identity, even following Linda after she leaves Stanhope.

• Elizabeth Perske - Lex Luthor's rich and powerful ex-wife, who enlists Supergirl as an ally in her covert attacks on her former husband.

• Starfire - a rich and powerful Bond-villain style character, who manipulates clueless hunk Derek Ames into seducing Supergirl and drugging her with a formula that strips away her powers. The formula is only partly successful, and Supergirl's powers start to fade in and out at random for months.

• Shyla Kor-Onn - Kandorian scientist who adopts the secret identity of a university scientist as the cover to devise technology that drains students of their life force to add to her own (not unlike a vampire.) Her ultimate aim is, however, to drain Supergirl of her powers. In a later story she tries to get Kara imprisoned in a Kandorian jail by using a brain scan of Lex Luthor as evidence. (Spoiler: his memories are actually false, part of a failed plot by Lesla-Lar pretending to be Kara.)

• Andy Jones - stand-up comic, and friend of Linda Danvers, who is secretly the Earth Angel, Comet.

• Cutter Sharp - honest but downtrodden friend of Linda Danvers, who is always coming up with schemes to improve his lot. He tries to sell merchandise based on Supergirl without asking her permission, and later talks himself into being her public relations manager. He's enthusiastic, not very bright, and somewhat deluded about his business abilities.

• The Gang - super-powered thieves who work for the illusive Lester Adams, stealing aerospace technologies from research labs. (The group includes Psi, who would later be used in the show.)

• Philip Decker - boyfriend of Linda 'Hot Dog' Danvers, who Kara eventually suspects is cheating on her. When she confronts him about his frequent unexplained absences, he turns the tables on her and asks about her frequent disappearances. Realising she can't reveal her alter ego, Linda is forced to drop the relationship.

• Streaky the Super Cat - no explanation needed. The coolest character in the DCU.

Those are a few of the most interesting characters from the first few decade of Kara's adventures. There's enough material there, what with neo-nazis, ex-wives, troublesome boyfriends, and Kandorian vampires, to provide enough interesting story arcs for at least a few seasons.

R5

Great list, Red Five - thanks for the enlightenment. I didn't know there was a third Starfire! (besides the alien warrior woman, and the famous Teen Titan).

I think there is also some kind of witch or sorceress that fights Supergirl in her Adventure Comics run? Can't remember the name of that character right now but I'm pretty sure she had a nice beautiful costume.

Also, didn't Streaky appear somewhere in the Supergirl TV show (but not with superpowers)?

[five_red]

I think there is also some kind of witch or sorceress that fights Supergirl in her Adventure Comics run? Can't remember the name of that character right now but I'm pretty sure she had a nice beautiful costume.

June Moone aka the Enchantress..? That was in her Superman Family run, but June initially appeared in a backup strip inside Adventure Comics. (Unless you're thinking of Faye Dunaway as Selena.)


R5

[shevek]

I think there is also some kind of witch or sorceress that fights Supergirl in her Adventure Comics run? Can't remember the name of that character right now but I'm pretty sure she had a nice beautiful costume.

June Moone aka the Enchantress..? That was in her Superman Family run, but June initially appeared in a backup strip inside Adventure Comics. (Unless you're thinking of Faye Dunaway as Selena.)
R5

Nope, I would definitely remember Enchantress - although she is another one you could add to your list. I'm thinking of a different
female magic-user but I just can't remember her name. She might have been queen of another dimension or something.....

[five_red]

Nope, I would definitely remember Enchantress - although she is another one you could add to your list. I'm thinking of a different
female magic-user but I just can't remember her name. She might have been queen of another dimension or something.....

Morgana the Witch..? She was in a story called Now Comes Zond (Adventure Comics #397) in which she destroys Supergirl's original costume, causing Kara to get a new costume from Diana Prince's clothing boutique (Wonder Woman was in her powerless Emma Peel phase at the time.)


R5

[Mr. X]

DC had this issue with nearly all of its female heroes which is they had poor rogues gallery villains unlike the men who had very fleshed out and defined villain opponents or the women had dopey or goofy villains. Wonder Woman kind of had the same issue. Except for Ares and Cheetah people are hard pressed to name any of her opponents. I think they'd be better off fabricating a new, more relevant villain for Supergirl this way Supergirl and the audience can discover this character together.

Now DC did have a 5 man team that was a clone of Marvel villains who faced off against Supergirl and the JLE that were from an alternate dimension. I forgot the name. One had magnet power, one was a wolverine type character, one was like Dr. Doom, one was like doc oc and the other was a wizard. That would be a cool villain set and they could use the same story that the 3 are projections of the wizard and he's the only one that really survived.

[shevek]

Nope, I would definitely remember Enchantress - although she is another one you could add to your list. I'm thinking of a different
female magic-user but I just can't remember her name. She might have been queen of another dimension or something.....

Morgana the Witch..? She was in a story called Now Comes Zond (Adventure Comics #397) in which she destroys Supergirl's original costume, causing Kara to get a new costume from Diana Prince's clothing boutique (Wonder Woman was in her powerless Emma Peel phase at the time.)


R5

No, it wasn't Morgana. Sorry I can't be more specific. I just remember Supergirl battling a magical woman in some sort of garish colorful costume who may have come from a different realm. Apologies, but the period of Adventure Comics with which I'm most familiar was the run with Dial for Hero, not Supergirl. And I was paying close attention to the various heroine characters that readers sent it for Vicki King to transform into. Maybe we'll figure this out at some point....

[ksire_99]

Superman Family No. 204

sm fam 204.jpg (88.8 KiB) Viewed 339 times

[five_red]

Irony of ironies, I believe the new Superman and Lois show has introduced Lesla-Lar as a character(?) So having used Superman characters extensively in the Supergirl show, they are now using Supergirl characters in the Superman show..!!

R5