Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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:ybat: :supes: :ww1: :robot:

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Maskripper »

I will re-watch the original cut some days before this one.
So far, I don't have big expectations.
But I think it should be an improvement over the original and thereby worth the money they spend on this new cut.
And after all, it's a DC movie....so yeah, I'm thrilled somehow ;)

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Damselbinder »

I can't believe the entire DCEU was all leading up to one giant shitpost.

"We live in a society" indeed.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Imagineer »

Falcon + Winter Soldier > JL + Snyder

I'm sure I'll enjoy both, but the former feels like a new book and the latter like a hardback with variant covers for a title made irrelevant by the latest epic crossover event.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Femina »

I don't understand why this is such a big deal? We've SEEN most of Justice League already. When a movie might be significantly better under a different cut, you can TELL. The best example of this is maybe 'Kingdom of Heaven' in which the ORIGINAL cut itself isn't DOGSHIT, but the the directors cut is Great.

The original cut of Justice League is dogshit. So the best it can hope to attain with a few scenes added and a few more mixed around under a different light filter can AT BEST bring it to mediocre? Most of the scenes we saw were already Snyders scenes.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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Femina wrote: 1 month ago I don't understand why this is such a big deal? We've SEEN most of Justice League already. When a movie might be significantly better under a different cut, you can TELL. The best example of this is maybe 'Kingdom of Heaven' in which the ORIGINAL cut itself isn't DOGSHIT, but the the directors cut is Great.

The original cut of Justice League is dogshit. So the best it can hope to attain with a few scenes added and a few more mixed around under a different light filter can AT BEST bring it to mediocre? Most of the scenes we saw were already Snyders scenes.
1. Snyder Cut on HBO Max will be four hours. Two hours longer than Whedon Cut. We've NOT SEEN most of Justice League already, as the Whedon shot scenes that contribute to his cuts two hours will not be in Snyder Cut, ergo even more not yet seen Snyder scenes will replace those Whedon scenes minutes. So two hours plus of new stuff in Snyder Cut

2. Four hours of completely new music by Junkie XL.

3. While most scenes in Whedon JL we saw were edited from Snyder footage, in no way does that translate to 'Most of the scenes we saw were already Snyders scenes.' It's not a Snyder scene unless Zack and his editors also do the edit (the cuts, choose which takes to use, choose which ADR to use, approve the vfx, do the audio mix, etc.).

4. Characters that didn't appear in Whedon Cut will be in Snyder Cut.

5. Cyborg will be more important in the Snyder Cut than Whedon Cut. Zack said Cyborg is the heart of the film. In Whedon Cut, we got: Cyborg who?

6. Whedon's rewrites to story, to Terrio's screenplay, will be gone. Snyder Cut will have some story elements that we've not seen before. Some may be pivotal to making story work better than theater cut.

The Snyder Cut will be better than Theater Cut, of that I have no doubt. Will it be tons better? Don't know. Will find out in about 14, 15 or so days.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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theScribbler wrote: 1 month ago
Femina wrote: 1 month ago I don't understand why this is such a big deal? We've SEEN most of Justice League already. When a movie might be significantly better under a different cut, you can TELL. The best example of this is maybe 'Kingdom of Heaven' in which the ORIGINAL cut itself isn't DOGSHIT, but the the directors cut is Great.

The original cut of Justice League is dogshit. So the best it can hope to attain with a few scenes added and a few more mixed around under a different light filter can AT BEST bring it to mediocre? Most of the scenes we saw were already Snyders scenes.
1. Snyder Cut on HBO Max will be four hours. Two hours longer than Whedon Cut. We've NOT SEEN most of Justice League already, as the Whedon shot scenes that contribute to his cuts two hours will not be in Snyder Cut, ergo even more not yet seen Snyder scenes will replace those Whedon scenes minutes. So two hours plus of new stuff in Snyder Cut

2. Four hours of completely new music by Junkie XL.

3. While most scenes in Whedon JL we saw were edited from Snyder footage, in no way does that translate to 'Most of the scenes we saw were already Snyders scenes.' It's not a Snyder scene unless Zack and his editors also do the edit (the cuts, choose which takes to use, choose which ADR to use, approve the vfx, do the audio mix, etc.).

4. Characters that didn't appear in Whedon Cut will be in Snyder Cut.

5. Cyborg will be more important in the Snyder Cut than Whedon Cut. Zack said Cyborg is the heart of the film. In Whedon Cut, we got: Cyborg who?

6. Whedon's rewrites to story, to Terrio's screenplay, will be gone. Snyder Cut will have some story elements that we've not seen before. Some may be pivotal to making story work better than theater cut.

The Snyder Cut will be better than Theater Cut, of that I have no doubt. Will it be tons better? Don't know. Will find out in about 14, 15 or so days.
All the Cyborg drama aside with WB, I honestly don't get why he would be the heart of the film. Cyborg is a Teen Titan...the Justice League has basically always been the core 3 with Batman, Supes, and WW, with Flash, GL, and a couple of others backing them up. I always thought Cyborg was an incredibly odd character to feature in this film. I understand DC has had more reboots than most computers, but always saw him as a Titans character and found him to be one of the most boring characters in the film. Maybe the new cut will change that, but still an odd choice with how overdue we are for a decent Green Lantern take, or even having Hawkgirl or another major League member.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Imagineer »

Cyborg might be important to the Snyder Cut, but we already know he doesn't matter to the Justice League.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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Imagineer wrote: 1 month ago Cyborg might be important to the Snyder Cut, but we already know he doesn't matter to the Justice League.
What?! Cyborg lives matter!

(sorry couldn't resist)
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Dogfish »

Given what we've all learned about Whedon recently I'm glad to see his contribution, such as it was to this movie, is being bulldozed and concreted over.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Danorian »

I figure Cyborg was "graduated" from the Titans to the JLA to get more minority representation in the JLA. Never mind the passel of characters that were already available!
Oh, also to "modernize" it since he was a technological hero, unlike the rest of the team. Yes, Batman had technological toys too, but Cyborg WAS a technological toy! Trying to bring the Justice League into the 21st century.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Damselbinder »

I think they wanted an Iron-Man-ish roboguy. Who else are they gonna use. Steel?
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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All I care about is Wonder Woman getting in trouble one way or another
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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No Spoiler Review:



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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Lurkndog »

I'll see it at some point, but I'm keeping my expectations low.

On the one hand, there is clearly a lot of stuff there that never saw the light of day, and at the very least, the movie should be more coherent than the theatrical release. And an entirely new musical score could help a lot.

On the other hand, I suspect my favorite bits from the theatrical release won't be in the Snyder cut.

I'm expecting maybe Man of Steel quality out of this, and I didn't like Man of Steel.

Hopefully we'll get a bunch more Gal Gadot Wonder Woman out of the longer cut.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Maskripper »

Re-watched the standard cut yesterday in 3D.
Will watch the Snyder cut tomorrow.
Pretty sure that then this will be actually the longest movie I ever watched with 245 minutes.
Hopefully, it will be worth it, but I think it will be an improvement after all.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by DrDominator9 »

Where will the Snyder cut be streamed tomorrow?
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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DrDominator9 wrote: 3 weeks ago Where will the Snyder cut be streamed tomorrow?
On HBO Max in US (PST 12am start time), and other ways in some places outside US.

how-to-watch-snyder-cut-zack-snyders-justice-league-online-streaming
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Femina »

Spoiler
This f'kn movie is just as bad as the first try, and just as bad as Batman V Superman. When is Zack Snyder going to learn that you can't just keep randomly interupting your movies with clips from the post apocalyptic Injustice movie you want to make and explain it all away retroactively as some dumb prophetic dream that Batman is having.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Shakeshift »

Wow. That was four hours of my life I'll never get back. SO GLAD they gave Zack Snyder 80 million dollars to make a 4-hour snoozefest shot so dark you can't see anything clearly.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by ivandobsky »

Shakeshift wrote: 3 weeks ago Wow. That was four hours of my life I'll never get back. SO GLAD they gave Zack Snyder 80 million dollars to make a 4-hour snoozefest shot so dark you can't see anything clearly.
The coof has given Hollywood the opportunity to put out really long films because people can pause the TV to go to the loo. They can also make the films darker because people can turn up the brightness.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Lurkndog »

Oddly enough, the Snyder Cut is in a 1.33:1 aspect ratio, basically a standard 35mm frame, or if you prefer, an old-fashioned non-widescreen TV.

He's also put together a version of it in black and white.

I haven't seen it yet, I'm kind of waiting to hear if it is worth four hours of my life.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Dogfish »

I had to skim through it because it's borderline unwatchable. Feels like Infinity War done much, much worse with less interesting characters and no stakes.

Fair enough though, if that's the movie Zack Snyder really wanted to make, good for him.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

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I'm seeing clips on youtube, mostly off peoples' TV sets. Seems just longer cut scenes with nothing much extra and poor CGI. Dark, amateur looking.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by tallyho »

Well all this feedback seems remarkably different from the Review clip posted. Haven't seen it yet and won't go out of my way to - hard to get excited when the Macguffin is referred to as '3 boxes' - it just sounds like an Amazon delivery, and the company not the race. I would hope its better than the original but that's not hard.
To those who have seen it - any redeeming new scenes at all, given the extra length?
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Maskripper »

That was ...an interesting.... ride.
Watched it on German pay TV (SKY).
Seemingly I didn't pay enough attention to the news before the release so I was VERY much surprised as SKY showed a message before the movie that explained that the movie was shot in a 4:3 aspect ratio and that therefore you would have black bars on the sides.
For a moment I thought it was April 1st already.
It's 2021, and this new movie is now presented in 4:3....well......Whatttt?
I mean that feels like 90's sitcoms...or even earlier TV shows.
So, from the 3D widescreen version, I watched two days ago....it was a BIG step in the wrong direction.
Also, I noticed that it was much darker than the "normal" cut I watched only 2 days before (posted about it above).
I guess to "fit" the darker atmosphere of this version. I don't mess with my TV settings for a single movie.
Normally I always defend scenes that were shot that dark (or made that dark in post production) like in Game of Thrones with the famous battle.
There it was night, so I am totally fine with the fact that you don't see everything that is happening.
But here it looks quite odd as the movie has a lot of day scenes that just look weird with this darkness.

I still don't get why this is now presented in 4:3? Who on earth thinks that a new movie in 4:3 is something good?
Really odd that Snyder chose this route and that folks on WB greenlighted this.
-
After I watched the first 2 hours my cable (and phone+internet) was totally gone for about 40 minutes. :wacko:
Which happens only once a year I guess.
Quite annoying, but well, things like that can happen.
I had to stop there and watched the 2nd half for breakfast today. :hmmm:
-
But enough of the presentation, on to the movie itself.
I think the original movie wasn't really good, but it was at least ok for me.
This version is a lot better for me. The pacing is often pretty slow with the additional scenes, but you can't watch a 4 hour movie and think there would be a non-stop action fest like a Crank movie ;) .
There was no point where I was bored. And some of the new action scenes are really good (even they suffer through darkness + 4:3)
I really enjoyed a LOT of the new scenes and the added material to already existing scenes.
Would like to know how much of the original movie was cut out as there a quite some scenes missing.
So, from the 4 hours, there is at least 60% new or additional footage. But I'm sure that some folks have the exact numbers on this.
All the new Wonder Woman, Flash and Cyborg scenes were very interesting to me. (Don't care much about Aquaman)
Spoiler
The whole ending is so completely different, the changes are massive! Steppenwolf looks better now, more threatening.
Darkseed is a nice addition as well. I didn't care much about the apocalyptic nightmare that Bruce has with the Joker.
*EDIT*: Oh, I forgot: The movie has now a lot more violence in it in comparison to the old cut, which fits the darker tone.

So, I guess this post is long enough by now, so I stop here for now.
My conclusion: This movie is like a very pretty woman ....in a very wide, ugly sweater, with a pantsuit, white sneakers, and a bun.
Or in other words....
movie: :thumbup:
presenation: :thumbsdown:

Looking forward to read from others who have seen the movie.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by ivandobsky »

4:3 is pretty awesome. I invest a lot of effort when buying a computer or screen into getting something taller than 16:9, but usually fall short. The reality is that most people, though they may dislike it, have a 16:9 TV set, so it makes sense to put out films in that format.
Reading between the black bars, it could be that the cameras work in 4:3, and you're getting the full picture. You might then choose to view it in pan-and-scan mode (with the top and bottom chopped off) using your TV's settings.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Heroine Addict »

As all the footage was originally framed for both 4:3 Imax and 16:9 standard, you can zoom in to make the image fill a 16:9 screen without losing any vital picture information.

Sadly, TV/streaming services seem to be showing this with hard-coded vertical bars, which may rule out zooming on many TVs. However, the eventual DVD/Blu-ray/UHD releases should be zoomable, even if it means going into the player's setup menus.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Visitor »

Lurkndog wrote: 3 weeks ago Oddly enough, the Snyder Cut is in a 1.33:1 aspect ratio, basically a standard 35mm frame, or if you prefer, an old-fashioned non-widescreen TV.

He's also put together a version of it in black and white.

I haven't seen it yet, I'm kind of waiting to hear if it is worth four hours of my life.
I saw an explanation that this was done for the later showing on IMAX, if they ever release it that way.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Lurkndog »

I'm an hour and 44 minutes into it now. I'm not finding it to be an improvement.

For instance, the "heroes of old" scene is quite a bit longer now, and has Darkseid in it. And instead of seeming like a ripoff of Lord of the Rings, it's now a ripoff of Avengers Endgame.

What it really reminds me of is when someone took a Justin Bieber song, and slowed it down by 800%, and turned it into an ambient techno track. The result was interesting, but it didn't really make it better.

Comparing parts of the different versions, I am finding the Joss Whedon version to be far more economical in its editing and pacing. It just gets through the exposition much better, and the dialog is tighter.

Also, the effects are wildly uneven. At the four minute mark, there is this lovingly crafted CGI shot of the new Steppenwolf and the Mother Boxes, which looks great, and literally one second later there is a shot of Lex Luthor standing in a puddle of water that was clearly photoshopped together from a shot of him on dry land, and it's not even momentarily convincing.

There are new bits added, some of which are nice, but IMHO they don't come close to justifying the bloated runtime.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Visitor »

Snyder's plan to remake Marvel's Infinity War with the DC universe:

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/zack-sn ... 34777.html

This was supposed to be the introduction to an even greater war between Darksied and the Justice League with time-wimey stuff.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Imagineer »

Dumb villains make for dumb movies. Snyder's four-hour version doesn't fix that. The few inches of extra depth he gives to Steppenwolf are more than ruined by how dumb he and his boss are. And the thought that there was to be another chapter anchored by this dumbness makes my head hurt.

And while Snyder can translate splash pages to motion-comic perfection, the tragic steely stoicism he demands from his heroes makes them lifeless and dull; the occasional glimmers of emotion he allows feel unearned and out of place. Junkie XL's monotonous atmospherics don't help, though I bet this is to Snyder's grim specs. As self-derivative as Hans Zimmer's Man of Steel score was, it's now even clearer how much it carried that film.

I have had my fill of Snyder's vision.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Maskripper »

A new campaign must start:
#Release the 16:9 Snyder cut!
;)
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Imagineer »

BTW it's probably unfair to expect the Snyder Cut to be paced and structured like a feature film. Its running time and the lingering-on-every-shot pace of the first act should make clear that the piece is designed to let you relish every moment of Zackness before you move on from the Snyderverse. I think that's the right approach.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Lurkndog »

ivandobsky wrote: 3 weeks ago 4:3 is pretty awesome. I invest a lot of effort when buying a computer or screen into getting something taller than 16:9, but usually fall short. The reality is that most people, though they may dislike it, have a 16:9 TV set, so it makes sense to put out films in that format.
Reading between the black bars, it could be that the cameras work in 4:3, and you're getting the full picture. You might then choose to view it in pan-and-scan mode (with the top and bottom chopped off) using your TV's settings.
I like 4:3 screens, particularly on tablets. It is a good compromise between movie viewing, and reading PDFs and websites. It's one of the things the iPad got right from day one, and one of the reasons why it is still the dominant tablet. (Note: I don't own or want an iPad, I'm just telling it like it is.)
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by RedMountain »

A movie review site I actually respect basically said it was now 4 hours long but still really bad, so I don't think I'm going to waste my time watching it again.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Maskripper »

RedMountain wrote: 3 weeks ago A movie review site I actually respect basically said it was now 4 hours long but still really bad, so I don't think I'm going to waste my time watching it again.
Perhaps you should consider other opinions as well, especially your own ;-)
I see many good reviews for this one as well. One of the (german) movie sites I visit daily gave it for example a 4.5 out of 5
Right now he has 8.6 on IMDB (even the hardcore fans do push it big time I guess)

When I am REALLY curious about a movie, I will watch it, no matter what reviews say.
When I am somehow curious about a movie, I will watch it, unless the reviews says it is a total disaster (which only very rarely happens)
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Blx »

Zero Wonder Woman ko's, 1/10. :P
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by luther »

So what about the really important items ..... any good Wonder Woman peril or KOs? I saw the earlier post which said none :angry: but at least any good peril scenes?

I would have to react my HBO Max which cost $$$. Last time I did that was a waste of money for WW 1984.

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Lurkndog »

The only thing close to a new peril scene is a vision of a dark future that Cyborg sees after they resurrect Superman. In it, we see Darkseid on his throne, followed by a shot of Wonder Woman's dead body lying atop a funeral pyre as the Amazons mourn her death.

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by brdiy »

no KOs but WW did get a few beatings battling Steppenwolf, and later against Superman.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Mr. X »

This reminds me how companies make video games where its unfinished when they ship it then you get a patch later that may fix it.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Dogfish »

Mr. X wrote: 3 weeks ago This reminds me how companies make video games where its unfinished when they ship it then you get a patch later that may fix it.
So true. Given that this is mostly a graphics update and some bugs in the storyline being worked out am going to refer to it as Justice League 1.1. It also helps that the baddie looks like a guy from an early 2000s graphics card benchmark.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Damselbinder »

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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Femina »

Lurkndog wrote: 3 weeks ago The only thing close to a new peril scene is a vision of a dark future that Cyborg sees after they resurrect Superman. In it, we see Darkseid on his throne, followed by a shot of Wonder Woman's dead body lying atop a funeral pyre as the Amazons mourn her death.

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I think Mera's fight scene with the big CG turd is extended actually... which results in both a little more peril for her, and her being a little more badass than she was last time.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by sugarcoater »

To add a small detail to the review, the overly dramatic nonsense and slow motion sequences is so overplayed. Why is there a scene with an absurdly sentimental song playing during an overly long slow-motion sequenced of the first appearance of Flash saving some random woman from a car accident? There is no reason for the long scene, let alone an attempt to add a somber tone to it.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Maskripper »

sugarcoater wrote: 3 weeks ago To add a small detail to the review, the overly dramatic nonsense and slow motion sequences is so overplayed. Why is there a scene with an absurdly sentimental song playing during an overly long slow-motion sequenced of the first appearance of Flash saving some random woman from a car accident? There is no reason for the long scene, let alone an attempt to add a somber tone to it.
That was actually
Spoiler
Iris West, the future big love of Barry
....so she wasn't a random woman ;)
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by sugarcoater »

Maskripper wrote: 3 weeks ago
sugarcoater wrote: 3 weeks ago To add a small detail to the review, the overly dramatic nonsense and slow motion sequences is so overplayed. Why is there a scene with an absurdly sentimental song playing during an overly long slow-motion sequenced of the first appearance of Flash saving some random woman from a car accident? There is no reason for the long scene, let alone an attempt to add a somber tone to it.
That was actually
Spoiler
Iris West, the future big love of Barry
....so she wasn't a random woman ;)
Thanks for the clarification. But at that point in the movie--and in the overall scheme of DC movies--isn't this the character's first appearance? As such, she is a random woman and the overly dramatic sequence seems trite to me. And as of the halfway point of the movie, there has been no reappearance of the woman, the scene remains trite in my estimation.
I'm not suggesting the scene shouldn't be the first involving the Flash's love interest, but creating the overly dramatic sequence is a bit much. There have been a lot of dramatic sequences. It would be better to limit them to make the more significant moments retain their value instead of watering down those moments with numerous overly dramatic moments.
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Re: Justice League Snyder Cut - March 18 2021

Post by Mr. X »

sugarcoater wrote: 3 weeks ago To add a small detail to the review, the overly dramatic nonsense and slow motion sequences is so overplayed. Why is there a scene with an absurdly sentimental song playing during an overly long slow-motion sequenced of the first appearance of Flash saving some random woman from a car accident? There is no reason for the long scene, let alone an attempt to add a somber tone to it.
Its the semi-new (now a little old) filming style of today. BvS and a lot of Justice League are a series of moments stitched together with a bad plot. BvS has a lot of this. Superman with the eye beam duel scene, him regenerating in space, Wonder Woman jumping in at the last moment to save Batman. All posed and slow and dramatic snap shots. Its akin to how commercials or porn films are made. A thin plot that stitches the moments together, the story doesn't really matter, it just gets you the next money shot.
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