To all Producers please use a different site than Clips4Sale: Clips4Sale is allowing Racist Porn

[GeekyPornCritic]

I was on Clips4sale to see if one of my favorite stores had any new updates, and I found the most disgraceful video placed on Clips4sale. Dickdrainers XXX released a racist video on the store today named Saying The N Word Probably Wasn't A Good Idea...https://www.clips4sale.com/studio/10321 ... +Good+Idea...

The pornstar says the N word to lead to a hardcore sex scene. Why would any black costumer be excited or turned on about a black man being called the N? As the title suggests, the guy forces himself on her out of anger. This just as wrong as her saying the N word. A black man would be so angry that he would rape or sexually assault a person for saying the vile word. It stereotypes black men as angry and violent people.

Some people may argue the actor in the movie is African American. Well that does not change my opinion on the matter. The video is still racist and degrading to African Americans. As a black man, I do not tolerate anyone including blacks calling me the N word or any racially charged language.

Clips4sale should be a shamed for allowing racist porn on their site. Racist porn disrespects and degrades the people depicted in the videos. It says the directors and actors do not care about African American costumers. They respected their African American costumers. The actors could have said no to the idea and found work elsewhere, but accepted the racist tones for the video.

Clips4Sale has a policy, but is clearly not enforcing it. After a little digging I found more racist clips at the same store and other stores as well.
6.3.1.9. Will not post content that libels, slanders, or disparages any person or group of people based on race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, or other factors at Our discretion.

Distasteful videos like this have no problem getting Clips4sale seal of approval.
https://www.clips4sale.com/studio/56735 ... avery+IPOD

I will stop using Clips4sale until positive progress is made. Remember freedom of is speech is not free from criticism. The government cannot silence anyone except for extreme cases of threats and defamation of character. However, a private business can easily reject any art.

[tallyho]

Have you complained to C4S?

[MightyHypnotic]

I've never understood the appeal of this type of content but clearly if it's for sale, someone must want it...

[DrDominator9]

I'm not excusing racist porn by any stretch of the imagination but if you think about it, the majority of Superheroine porn is incredibly sexist, no? Violence against women is the meat and potatoes of the genre. So when you start boycotting racist porn, can sexist porn be far behind? Again, not defendinding racism here but the slope is slippery that you're standing on.

[Mr. X]

Well what's the appeal of calling a woman a slut? Or stepping on a guy's junk. Whatever turns your crank.

Wait a second... the girl looks like she practically gets raped in this and you're upset she used the N-word?

[GeekyPornCritic]

Have you complained to C4S?

I sent them a complaint. Have not heard back from them and will wait a few days.

Well what's the appeal of calling a woman a slut? Or stepping on a guy's junk. Whatever turns your crank.

Wait a second... the girl looks like she practically gets raped in this and you're upset she used the N-word?

You're basically tolerating racism. If a person is turned on by racism, then he or she has some major problems. Why would any black man be turned on by the thought of racism that led to the many deaths of African Americans?

Did you read the entire first post? I said "A black man would be so angry that he would rape or sexually assault a person for saying the vile word. It stereotypes black men as angry and violent people."

[Femina]

Look... one could argue that being turned on by powerful women getting beaten is a sign of major problems... I'm usually the first to leap against racist posts and the like, but porn is porn. People oft use porn as an outlet to vent things that absolutely could lead to worse activity if they didn't vent it somehow. IMO, better these people get off on racist porn than to walk outside and be a racist or sexist or whatnot, just as as I would rather the people who visit this site get off on fantasies of women getting beat than to go out and beat women.

Porn is porn, what turns people on is largely innate and unchangeable, you can't always know WHY something turns someone on, and you can't assume that just because it does that person isn't capable of containing themselves and behaving perfectly normally and rationally in the real world. Not everyone who visits this site is a sexist just because an inherently sexist fetish is a turn on.

Do what you want, but I'm advising you to give this one up. Fight racism somewhere it makes a difference.

[bushwackerbob]

Personally I would not go near that racist porn crap in a million years, it being vile, ugly, and offensive. I would make the argument however that people in glass houses should not throw stones, meaning that the superheroine peril fetish much like racism would not survive in the light of day to the altar of political correctness. My fear is that some day in the future some ultra left wing feminist accidentally happens upon a superheroine peril website and makes it their cause to remove SHP films. I also wonder if that by introducing this topic and calling attention to this film will have the unintended consequence of raising awareness to the film and thus increasing its business.

[Mr. X]

You're basically tolerating racism. If a person is turned on by racism, then he or she has some major problems. Why would any black man be turned on by the thought of racism that led to the many deaths of African Americans?

Did you read the entire first post? I said "A black man would be so angry that he would rape or sexually assault a person for saying the vile word. It stereotypes black men as angry and violent people."

You start on one person's fetish then everything is questioned.

Yes I read where you appear far more upset about the use of some term vs a woman portrayed as being raped. And how is calling someone the Nword worse than calling a woman a slut or whore?

Don't open this box. I'm sure some black men love this power fantasy as much as some men enjoy getting their junk stepped on or bossed around by women. Just don't buy the material.

Just curious. Are you black?

[LovetheFallenAngels]

This is certainly interesting.

I can guarantee there are people out there who consider superheroine peril porn revolting. I love the stuff and I've written some it. I still understand that it's taboo.

How does one decide one taboo is more offensive than another?

[Void]

I'm guessing you have a much more toxic lived experience of the N word than I do to be this outraged, but it is worth remembering not everyone shares your experience, or your definition, of it. To some people it is just a risqué word - to some people it is punctuation. Regardless, given that we consume videos that are largely driven by the theme of strong women being disempowered and made to submit to the sexual needs of their male captors, with all kinds of violence and triggering words along the way, and often a strong subtext of women 'being put in their place' , I think we can cut some slack to other forms of sexual fantasy/porn that may disgust us. Fantasy probably ought to be free from judgement, period. People aren't blood thirsty sadists because they consume Game of Thrones, you don't secretly want to shoot up a high school because you play Doom, and so on.

I would feel differently here, as I would everywhere, if the 'offensive' thing were actually going on outside of the fantasy. If the model in your video was actually mistreated racially by the producers then that would move from subjectively offensive to objectively wrong - just as it would if women were actually mistreated by the producers of SHIP, or if the actors on GoT were actually murdered on set, or... I can't think of a good equivalent for playing Doom... if it perfectly simulated a historical high school shooting, perhaps? That last one is still debatable, but my point is there is a big chasm between offense and harm - we should be moved to action by harm, but we should really just look away if we are merely offended.

[Imagineer]

GeekyPornCritic: If you wish anyone to join your crusade, you must explain the moral difference between the existence of fantasy content that outrages you and the existence of fantasy content that engages you.

[GeekyPornCritic]

You start on one person's fetish then everything is questioned.

Yes I read where you appear far more upset about the use of some term vs a woman portrayed as being raped. And how is calling someone the Nword worse than calling a woman a slut or whore?

Don't open this box. I'm sure some black men love this power fantasy as much as some men enjoy getting their junk stepped on or bossed around by women. Just don't buy the material.

Just curious. Are you black?

Yes, I am black. Please explain to me why you believe being called a N word is just as bad as calling a woman a slut or whore? People have been killed over the N word.

Anyone has a serious problem is racist porn turns you on. If you're not black and you get a rush when a white woman says the N word, then you are clearly racist. If you're black and desire women to call you the N word, then you are an uncle tom.

You cannot compare a man being stepped on his balls to an uncle tom wanting a white woman to call him a N. Any man fat, white, black, skinny, Latin, etc. can fantasize about having their balls crushed. Racist porn typically targets racist who are turned on by believing their race is superior and any black man who believes he has no value.

There is a huge difference between racist porn and superheroine porn. Racism exists. Superheroines do not exist. You don't hear people in America saying "let's depower, beat, and fuck superheroes." However, you do hear some people including political leaders say racist comments about people. There are groups who encourage racism such as the KKK and White Nationalist.

I'm guessing you have a much more toxic lived experience of the N word than I do to be this outraged, but it is worth remembering not everyone shares your experience, or your definition, of it. To some people it is just a risqué word - to some people it is punctuation. Regardless, given that we consume videos that are largely driven by the theme of strong women being disempowered and made to submit to the sexual needs of their male captors, with all kinds of violence and triggering words along the way, and often a strong subtext of women 'being put in their place' , I think we can cut some slack to other forms of sexual fantasy/porn that may disgust us. Fantasy probably ought to be free from judgement, period. People aren't blood thirsty sadists because they consume Game of Thrones, you don't secretly want to shoot up a high school because you play Doom, and so on.

I would feel differently here, as I would everywhere, if the 'offensive' thing were actually going on outside of the fantasy. If the model in your video was actually mistreated racially by the producers then that would move from subjectively offensive to objectively wrong - just as it would if women were actually mistreated by the producers of SHIP, or if the actors on GoT were actually murdered on set, or... I can't think of a good equivalent for playing Doom... if it perfectly simulated a historical high school shooting, perhaps? That last one is still debatable, but my point is there is a big chasm between offense and harm - we should be moved to action by harm, but we should really just look away if we are merely offended.

We need to look at superheroine porn as a whole. Not all superheroine porn features women being depowered and dominated by men. There has been a rise in femdom superheroine porn with the female villains dominate superheroes. There are many videos of superheroines being dominated by female villains. It's not like superheroine porn is only filming movies of men defeating women in tight spandex.

Some women like being submissive in their sexual lives. There is nothing wrong with displaying submissive women in porn. So many liberals want to say all women want to be strong, and yes that is true in certain aspects in life such as employment, pay, political voice, etc. However, that is not always true about someone's sex life. Sometimes the woman want to be submissive. One of my best buddies in college was a submissive black guy and liked his girlfriend controlling him.

You cannot compare racist porn to video games, TV shows, and movies. People do not watch the Walking Dead because they want to murder people. They watch it for the story and the fantasy world. What is going to happen to Rick and the gang next? These forms of entertainment do not reflect our personal lives. They are just fantasy worlds that can never exist unlike some stories in porn that are possible (and no superheroine porn is not possible. Superheroines do not exist) People do not fantasize about being Rick Grimes in a zombie apocalypse or a gang member from GTA.

Porn serves as a means to view your sexual fantasy. Sometimes those fantasies are possible. Do you fantasize about the hot girl at work? Then, there is plenty of porn for you, and your fantasy is realistic. It happens in reality. You are most likely to have an affair with a coworker than anyone else. Are you racist? Do you fantasize about degrading races of people? I got sad news for you! Your racist fantasy can be a reality just find an uncle tom like Ben Carson and you're good to go! Do you fantasize about being tied up in Wonder Woman's lasso of truth? I got bad news for you. Superheroines do not exist and your fantasy will only be seen on your computer screen. Have a good day.

[bushwackerbob]

Let me see if I understand this correctly. Superheroine peril is ok because it is an unrealistic fantasy but racist porn is not because it happens in reality. Let me ask you this, are you offended by murder, rape, school shootings as well? Those are realistic as well. If we banned every film, television show, and piece of rap music, video games, that glorifies or inspires violence, or uses offensive language, what would we be left with. Where does one draw the line? Who decides where that line gets crossed? If the studio that produced the film violated terms of service rules, then I am glad you contacted them and let them know, but introducing the topic on this website I think is a tough sell for this group. Because there is such a social stigma for our superheroine peril fetish, while by no means to we support racial porn, I think that there is the hope that if we can be tolerant of the right of someone to enjoy non-traditional porn that others may extend that same right on to our own fetish.

[Dazzle1]

This can be a slippery slope.

There are some things in porn that I just wish were not there

Religous parodies is one of mine (even if not my religion) but the best we can do is ignore it

We see enough censorship and shutting down of ideas outside this genre or adult entertainment

[GeekyPornCritic]

Personally I would not go near that racist porn crap in a million years, it being vile, ugly, and offensive. I would make the argument however that people in glass houses should not throw stones, meaning that the superheroine peril fetish much like racism would not survive in the light of day to the altar of political correctness. My fear is that some day in the future some ultra left wing feminist accidentally happens upon a superheroine peril website and makes it their cause to remove SHP films. I also wonder if that by introducing this topic and calling attention to this film will have the unintended consequence of raising awareness to the film and thus increasing its business.

People on the left like myself support porn. The right does not support porn. When have you seen a leftist criticize porn? Republican politicians have been against porn for many years.

Not all SHIP films are created equal. There have been so many different visions of it. Not all versions of SHIP are porn. Most SHIP with blood and murder are not porn films. Sometimes the heroine is seduced or given a love potion/spell. I understand there are some hardcore versions of SHIP with the bad guys violating the superheroine.

Let me see if I understand this correctly. Superheroine peril is ok because it is an unrealistic fantasy but racist porn is not because it happens in reality. Let me ask you this, are you offended by murder, rape, school shootings as well? Those are realistic as well. If we banned every film, television show, and piece of rap music, video games, that glorifies or inspires violence, or uses offensive language, what would we be left with. Where does one draw the line? Who decides where that line gets crossed? If the studio that produced the film violated terms of service rules, then I am glad you contacted them and let them know, but introducing the topic on this website I think is a tough sell for this group. Because there is such a social stigma for our superheroine peril fetish, while by no means to we support racial porn, I think that there is the hope that if we can be tolerant of the right of someone to enjoy non-traditional porn that others may extend that same right on to our own fetish.

If you tolerate racist porn, then you are a racist. It's very simple. You are who you support. You are who you tolerate.

Of course murder, rape, and school shootings are a sad reality. They are depicted in video games and movies. However, you are ignoring the fact that these actions are not deemed acceptable by the protagonist in most medias. The villains who commit these crimes are punished or killed in these video games and movies.

Every movie needs an antagonist and in action movies these antagonists commit the worst crimes. The message in these movies is these crimes are wrong by having the good guys defeat the bad guys.

Racist porn on the other hand says racism is okay and promotes it. Promoting a horrible act is totally different than just adding it to a story. I am 100% okay with a racist antagonist in video games and movies. Their actions are depicted as wrong which is a different message than the one in racist porn.

[Shakeshift]

tallyho wrote: ↑
1 day ago

Have you complained to C4S?

Geeky Porn Critic wrote....
I sent them a compliment. Have not heard back from them and will wait a few days.


A compliment? Well, that would be your reason why nobody has gotten back to you. I think you meant complaint.

[bushwackerbob]

So because I do not oppose fantasy racist porn I am a racist. By your own definition, African American rappers are also Uncle Toms. Do me a favor and watch Spike lee's Do the Right Thing and then tell me it is "acceptable" for an protagonist to incite a riot. (great movie by the way) I have a long list just waiting to go. This is the problem people have with social media today: agree with someone on the issue of race, great, disagree, then your a racist, vote for candidate A, your a racist, vote for candidate B then your un-American. This with us or against us mentality is part of what is wrong with this country because life, the human condition and the world is a lot more nuanced, there are more shades of gray in between. Looking at the world today, there is a lot of things that I greatly dislike whether it be politics, tv shows, rap music, country music, Celine Dion, etc. I have never seen it, but I am sure racist porn belongs on that group as well. I came to the realization long ago that in order to live a happy life that I should try to embrace the things that make me happy and tune out or change the channel on things that make me mad. Life is too short pal.

[Void]

"If you tolerate racist porn, then you are a racist. It's very simple. You are who you support. You are who you tolerate."

This represents the same kind of all-or-nothing thinking that would call each of us depraved haters of women for enjoying SHIP, or would call us any number of unkind things by association with anything that we don't actively pillory.

Either way, you can't tell people why they enjoy their fantasy or what they're getting out of it, so differentiating porn from other content on that basis doesn't work at all. I agree that all of these examples are safely under the umbrella of fantasy - they aren't real - but I would extend that same protection to this video. If you are trying to say that SHIP is okay because it contains elements that are unreal but this video isn't okay because it's a shade closer to real life, then does that mean the video would be totally fine if the guy wore a cape and a mask, and was called 'Black Wonder'? I assume not, because the distasteful elements of the video are all still there, and SHIP, and ALL these examples work the same way. They all contain elements that relate to real life, which is how we understand it at all. Women, sexism and rape all exist in the real world, and putting the women in a costume first doesn't change why some people could be triggered by what follows. The same goes for murder, torture, or anything else that appears in films and games. Likewise, the existence of women that like the themes in SHIP would do nothing to ease the outrage of someone who just sees such content as hateful misogyny. One differing perspective doesn't invalidate another - but it does make the point that taste is subjective, which surely we all already appreciate.

No matter the fantastical trimmings to the content there will still be elements that are offensive to some people, on more kinds of axis than I can list, but it never amounts to any more than offense. You can't draw a line that makes some kinds of offense okay but puts other kinds of offense beyond the line - or at least not a line that applies to anyone other than yourself. I'm with you in the sense that I think the video looks distasteful (actually for more reasons than just the racial stigmas) but it's on me to just look away at that point.

[GeekyPornCritic]

"If you tolerate racist porn, then you are a racist. It's very simple. You are who you support. You are who you tolerate."

This represents the same kind of all-or-nothing thinking that would call each of us depraved haters of women for enjoying SHIP, or would call us any number of unkind things by association with anything that we don't actively pillory.

Either way, you can't tell people why they enjoy their fantasy or what they're getting out of it, so differentiating porn from other content on that basis doesn't work at all. I agree that all of these examples are safely under the umbrella of fantasy - they aren't real - but I would extend that same protection to this video. If you are trying to say that SHIP is okay because it contains elements that are unreal but this video isn't okay because it's a shade closer to real life, then does that mean the video would be totally fine if the guy wore a cape and a mask, and was called 'Black Wonder'? I assume not, because the distasteful elements of the video are all still there, and SHIP, and ALL these examples work the same way. They all contain elements that relate to real life, which is how we understand it at all. Women, sexism and rape all exist in the real world, and putting the women in a costume first doesn't change why some people could be triggered by what follows. The same goes for murder, torture, or anything else that appears in films and games. Likewise, the existence of women that like the themes in SHIP would do nothing to ease the outrage of someone who just sees such content as hateful misogyny. One differing perspective doesn't invalidate another - but it does make the point that taste is subjective, which surely we all already appreciate.

No matter the fantastical trimmings to the content there will still be elements that are offensive to some people, on more kinds of axis than I can list, but it never amounts to any more than offense. You can't draw a line that makes some kinds of offense okay but puts other kinds of offense beyond the line - or at least not a line that applies to anyone other than yourself. I'm with you in the sense that I think the video looks distasteful (actually for more reasons than just the racial stigmas) but it's on me to just look away at that point.

It's interesting to see how many people have ignored my comments on SHIP. I already explained at least twice in this topic. SHIP Is not always about a female superheroine being defeated then violated or killed by a man. Are videos with Poison Ivy seducing superheroines with kisses and teasing offensive? I won't dig anymore. You are more than welcome to read my earlier comments on the genre.

A scene with this type of story would never be in SHIP. You will never find a SHIP film with a black superhero raping women for saying the N word. It does not fall under the genre for many reasons. 1. SHIP does not focus on race. 2. A superhero does not rape people. 3. A superhero would only tell her to change her attitude.

Some things in society are all or nothing, and racism falls under all or nothing. Accepting or tolerating it in any form says you are okay with another person being discriminated against because of his or her race. There is no middle ground.

Then, there is sexism. Sexism is not under all or nothing. It is a much broader subject. For example, porn's critics say porn is sexist. Is this really true? Female pornstars are paid more than their male partners. Many pornstars have college degrees and can choose different careers. No one is forcing women to be pornstars.

However, if you are an employer and knowingly pay men better wages than women because they're men, then you are sexist.

[tallyho]

Some things in society are all or nothing, and racism falls under all or nothing. Accepting or tolerating it in any form says you are okay with another person being discriminated against because of his or her race. There is no middle ground.

Things aren't necessarily that clear cut. Samuel L Jackson has used the N word countless times in films - but somehow thats okay because of the colour of his skin. Of all the words to 'reclaim' I cant for the life of me think why people chose that one.

In the British war film Dambusters the code word for one of the dams being successfully blown was the N word, named after the squadron leaders dog. It was of its time - it was a black labrador, and thats what he had named it. Its factually accurate to quote it.
He ultimately gave his life fighting against fascism and racism, yet his dog was called that.

I dont think using it makes you inherently racist, its all about context and malicious intent. Samuel L 's characters often use it as a term of greeting depending on the script, on other occasions it does have a derogatory use where he is disparaging against another African American.

Its all about context .


Whilst I am here -


Can I take this opportunity to thank everyone for conducting a sensible balanced discussion on this topic which is obviously highly charged and emotive. Well done people.

[Void]

Given that this thread is about a single video, I don't know why the distinction that not all SHIP clips are the same changes anything here. If the angry mob comes for all the non femdom SHIP content, are you merrily joining them?

I think discrimination against gender occupies the same space as discrimination against race. I don't know how you can be all-or-nothing about one, but set the other aside as being nuanced and on a spectrum - especially given that a lot of this comes down to the use of a word to demean a black man in a fantasy video where both he and the person calling him the name are acting. Are we going to agree that actual, real-world discrimination against race and gender is wrong, but then quibble that fictional depictions of black men being mistreated (called a name) for being black is clearly worse and not at all akin to the fictional depiction of women being mistreated (often much, much, much worse than being called a name) for being a woman? We are talking about fantasy here - the video isn't a documentary.

None of this is to say you're wrong to be upset or that you aren't entitled to being offended, nor am I trying to say that SHIP content actually is particularly sexist - it's just why I think this is entitled to being tolerated the same as every other fantasy.

[ivandobsky]

If you don't like it, don't watch it. Problem solved.

[Imagineer]

GeekyPornCritic, you have more than once dodged a basic issue by saying that not all SHIP features violence toward women, and that superheroines don't exist.
Yes or no -- do you put SHIP featuring violence toward women in the same category as the racially-charged clip you find so offensive?

You know what? It doesn't matter. You are making a distinction that is based entirely on what offends YOU. This distinction does not support harassing one specific type of offensive content out of the marketplace, or to an even-darker corner where it is essentially out of the marketplace -- because it's only aggregation into a common marketplace that provides a practical means for many niches to exist. If one type has to go, it all has to go. Until you realize this your opinion will not be shared by many here.

Beware the thought police.

[Mr. X]

Yes, I am black. Please explain to me why you believe being called a N word is just as bad as calling a woman a slut or whore? People have been killed over the N word.

So are you upset when Chappel or Chris Rock relentlessly use the word in their comedy routines?

[Shakeshift]

Instead of advocating the banning and blockading of Clips4Sale, maybe you should say that you're banning and blockading DickDrainers XXX for being the fetish producers who not only create such awful and racially-charged content, but also try to profiteer from it by offering it up for sale at eleven dollars a pop?

[GeekyPornCritic]

Yes, I am black. Please explain to me why you believe being called a N word is just as bad as calling a woman a slut or whore? People have been killed over the N word.

So are you upset when Chappel or Chris Rock relentlessly use the word in their comedy routines?

I already answered your question in the first post.

Instead of advocating the banning and blockading of Clips4Sale, maybe you should say that you're banning and blockading DickDrainers XXX for being the fetish producers who not only create such awful and racially-charged content, but also try to profiteer from it by offering it up for sale at eleven dollars a pop?

That is a fair point. The DickDrainers deserve the most blame for producing the awful content, and they should be ban. However, Clips4sale is enabling the sales on their site. Clips4sale does deserve the blame as well for allowing it on their platform. I am sure one person like myself will not hit Clips4sale's wallet.

[Femina]

First off, I'm a woman, and I can tell you that if someone called me a slut/cow/whore/pussy to my face, I'd consider it as bad as having been called 'the N-word'

You can't denounce one 'malicious' fantasy but absolve another and retain any semblance of a sensible stance that can be debated against or stood with. If you want to crusade against this, than do it, you have that freedom, but you can't then turn around and say 'the SHiP fetish is cool though cause it's all fantasy but racism porn is bad because its real!!!' and retain argumentative credibility. NEITHER of them are real, they are both porn, and they BOTH absolutely reflect terrible things about human nature. SHiP may have a more varied content base but it is largely consistent with 'woman abused by a man physically and sexually' most often via rape. Say what you want about Racism, rape is exactly as bad if not worse and it is a part of the fetish which YOU consume. To someone outside the fetish who takes stances the way you have taken a stance on this, that makes you someone who supports the rape of women.

So ask yourself do you support the rape of women regardless of what these people may think? If the answer is 'of course I don't support rape!' then you need to consider that perhaps some of the people who consume racism porn may not be much different from you outside of the smut they consume. It's a hard lesson sometimes but that's life. People aren't the sum of one integer of their lives, and porn is a reflection of society, not a driving force. The best way to get rid of racist porn is to fight racism where it is a driving force NOT a reflection.

Again, if you absolutely want to rage against this, its your right to do so, all I'm saying is that I feel you are going to have a hard time recruiting with the lines you've drawn.

[Heroine Addict]

Bearing in mind that a lot of this genre's revenue is generated by people browsing the Superheroines section of Clips4Sale, a boycott would harm various SHiP producers' business much more than it would harm Clips4Sale.

Maybe you could argue that it's a matter of principle. However, a small number of producers exploiting racial tensions to sell fantasy videos is Jack Shit compared to the widespread promotion of racist ideology on YouTube, Twitter and Facebook. Social media sites are making a ton of money from far-right content, yet we're supposed to be outraged by Clips4Sale selling a small amount of exploitative fiction containing racist characters and racial stereotypes? Riiiiiiiiiiight. [backs away]

[bat123]

this is so stupid who cares if someone said the n word its not the end of the world so grow the hell up.

[GeekyPornCritic]

First off, I'm a woman, and I can tell you that if someone called me a slut/cow/whore/pussy to my face, I'd consider it as bad as having been called 'the N-word'

You can't denounce one 'malicious' fantasy but absolve another and retain any semblance of a sensible stance that can be debated against or stood with. If you want to crusade against this, than do it, you have that freedom, but you can't then turn around and say 'the SHiP fetish is cool though cause it's all fantasy but racism porn is bad because its real!!!' and retain argumentative credibility. NEITHER of them are real, they are both porn, and they BOTH absolutely reflect terrible things about human nature. SHiP may have a more varied content base but it is largely consistent with 'woman abused by a man physically and sexually' most often via rape. Say what you want about Racism, rape is exactly as bad if not worse and it is a part of the fetish which YOU consume. To someone outside the fetish who takes stances the way you have taken a stance on this, that makes you someone who supports the rape of women.

So ask yourself do you support the rape of women regardless of what these people may think? If the answer is 'of course I don't support rape!' then you need to consider that perhaps some of the people who consume racism porn may not be much different from you outside of the smut they consume. It's a hard lesson sometimes but that's life. People aren't the sum of one integer of their lives, and porn is a reflection of society, not a driving force. The best way to get rid of racist porn is to fight racism where it is a driving force NOT a reflection.

Again, if you absolutely want to rage against this, its your right to do so, all I'm saying is that I feel you are going to have a hard time recruiting with the lines you've drawn.

As a man, I cannot tell you how to feel about any word. I cannot experience that situation. I all I can say is I know a few women who like being called a slut while having sex. I do not know any who would take it lightly being called one in public.

Racist porn is realistic. Fantasies depicted in racism porn can occur in real life because racism sexists. You cannot deny this fact.

As a black man, I cannot stay silent or ignore racist porn. Ignoring it would be accepting it and degrading my own race. You do not see mainstream movies and video games promoting racism. That is one of the biggest differences here. You can find a lot of mainstream porn promoting racism. The two examples I posted are just from Clips4sale. Dogfart is the most openly racist site in the industry, and they are currently being sued for using the N word without a model's permission.

https://www.newsweek.com/black-porn-act ... ord-932689

this is so stupid who cares if someone said the n word its not the end of the world so grow the hell up.

You're just a racist. Why should black customers care about porn made to promote racism?

[Dazzle1]

Questions

If artistic liscence s being used is the N word or deogratory terms for any group now out of bounds. The reason I bring this up is that I never use the N word but I have heard it used in movies and TV in context. Does that mean we should not watch the Dirty Dozen?

Also does that mean any video where a Caucasian dominates an African american is that now out of bounds?

[helstar]

This situation reminded me of this video...

[avenger]

So....... pantyhose or bare legs?

[Femina]

As a man, I cannot tell you how to feel about any word. I cannot experience that situation. I all I can say is I know a few women who like being called a slut while having sex. I do not know any who would take it lightly being called one in public.

Racist porn is realistic. Fantasies depicted in racism porn can occur in real life because racism sexists. You cannot deny this fact.

As a black man, I cannot stay silent or ignore racist porn. Ignoring it would be accepting it and degrading my own race. You do not see mainstream movies and video games promoting racism. That is one of the biggest differences here. You can find a lot of mainstream porn promoting racism. The two examples I posted are just from Clips4sale. Dogfart is the most openly racist site in the industry, and they are currently being sued for using the N word without a model's permission.

Thank you I think? As someone who is white as a baby's ass, I certainly can't experience what it is like to be called the n word... however I can't at all believe for the life of me that there aren't people who like being called that while having sex either? I mean Sam Jackson throws it out like its the F Bomb, and I've heard African Americans use it as everything from 'sup bro' to a term of endearment with one another which probably means its being used in sex as well?

SHiP porn is only unrealistic in the sense that superheroines don't exist, but it isn't unrealistic in the fact that women get beaten and raped by men that hate them all the time. I get that you see a huge difference here, I'm simply expressing that from my perspective and many others here, there really isn't. I can't pretend like the fetish I consume doesn't reflect a terrible thing that happens in society.

Look, we consume porn that arouses us, and we don't choose what arouses us. You might think we do, but we don't. The things that turn us on are instilled in us as a reflection of the world around us growing up long before we develop a sex drive. I give a pass to most people's porn consumption, I do this because I am self aware of my own fetish, and am self aware that it does not intrude upon or impact the way I choose to treat people around me. I don't care if the guy who runs the tool shop down the road has the impulses of a serial killer if he successfully and willfully chooses not to act on them his entire life because he knows they are wrong... if that analogy makes any sense at all. Now I'm not crazy enough to believe there aren't SHiP fetishists out there (probably even on this website) who HATE women, and if they ever beat a woman I hope they go right to jail... but the only time it is acceptable to punish someone for the porn they consume is when they ACT to make a reality out of the porn they consume. You can't police feelings, only actions.

Anyway... all this is really just me apologizing that I can't help you on this. To me, taking a stance against anyone else's malicious porn would be a hypocritical act... but racist porn doesn't affect me the way it does others, so if you need to go after it, I wish you good luck.

[GeekyPornCritic]

Questions

If artistic liscence s being used is the N word or deogratory terms for any group now out of bounds. The reason I bring this up is that I never use the N word but I have heard it used in movies and TV in context. Does that mean we should not watch the Dirty Dozen?

Also does that mean any video where a Caucasian dominates an African american is that now out of bounds?

Again your first question has already been addressed and answered. I am going to quote myself for I won't have to rewrite the same response.

Of course murder, rape, and school shootings are a sad reality. They are depicted in video games and movies. However, you are ignoring the fact that these actions are not deemed acceptable by the protagonist in most medias. The villains who commit these crimes are punished or killed in these video games and movies.

Every movie needs an antagonist and in action movies these antagonists commit the worst crimes. The message in these movies is these crimes are wrong by having the good guys defeat the bad guys.

Racist porn on the other hand says racism is okay and promotes it. Promoting a horrible act is totally different than just adding it to a story. I am 100% okay with a racist antagonist in video games and movies. Their actions are depicted as wrong which is a different message than the one in racist porn.

To answer your second question, a white person dominating a black person is not automatically racist. I speak from personal experience as a black man, I am sexually submissive to white women as they are my preference. I am not submissive because I think white people are superior to blacks. I love dominate and assertive women, a woman who knows what she wants and takes it.

[sugarcoater]

1. Is the video trying to further a racist agenda? Or is it using the language much like entertainers and movie producers use that type of language?

2. Is the video basically having a woman use the word, then get punished for it? If so, seems anti-racist.If the essence of the word's use is to make the woman's punishment logical and acceptable, I'm not quite clear as to how that's different from, for one example, Edward Norton's use of the word in "American History X" or Leonardo DiCaprio's use of the word in "Django Unchained".

3. The use of that word has always been difficult to work around. In certain forms of entertainment, it's acceptable. Used by one ethnic group, it's acceptable. In the end, the word is merely a hateful term used to address a group of people. It's similar to any racist, sexist, homophobic slur; it just comes with a longer historical context than most. But in the end, it's an anachronism used by bigots...or by musicians and entertainers (which is what makes it once again a bit of an odd circumstance as one doesn't often hear racist terms used by other ethnicities in their music, whereas the word "bitch" gets used by female artists to make a point).

[Imagineer]

Video games promote casual murder with regularity -- by the protagonist/player. That the protagonist/player is technically a criminal doesn't change the fact that the games reward violence and don't punish the protagonist/player. It's a fantasy -- a mainstream one, clearly.

[GeekyPornCritic]

Video games promote casual murder with regularity -- by the protagonist/player. That the protagonist/player is technically a criminal doesn't change the fact that the games reward violence and don't punish the protagonist/player. It's a fantasy -- a mainstream one, clearly.

Your comments are not true for most video games. Protagonists normally act in self-defense and self-defense is NOT considered illegal murder. Every Nintendo character uses self-defense or is at war with a villain. Mario, Link, MegaMan, Sonic, and Samus are not murders. You are killing zombies in video games and that is not murder.

The only rare examples of murder in video games are Grand Theft Auto.

[sugarcoater]

If we’re now looking at video games’ morality, there are quite a few that involve villains being controlled by the user. And in mentioning Grand Theft Auto, that is a MAJOR series of massive popularity.

[Mr. X]

Dogs and cats! Living together!

[bat123]

is this thing still going on move on please this is a superheroine forum not a racist forum.

[DrDominator9]

Considering the volatility of the topic, the discourse here has been incredibly civil. And since the subject line is still being covered I see no reason to curtail this thread...other than the issue will never be resolved, of course.

[Imagineer]

Does anyone else see the distinction GeekyPornCritic making as a meaningful one? Does anyone else agree? Because I do not see that he's made his case.

I don't see evidence that the clip(s) were made as racist propaganda.

It is of course possible that white supremacists could find and purchase the clip(s) to reinforce their bias, or even to use as racist propaganda -- but male supremacists could do the same with sexist clips, sociopaths could do the same with violent clips -- any fetish fantasy material fictionally portraying immoral or illegal acts has similar potential.

Further, the case has not been made that the mere existence of this potential justifies the systematic expunging or demarketing of any such material.

Indeed, GeekyPornCritic has attempted to decouple racist-fetish material from sexist-fetish, violent-fetish, and all other types, setting aside racist-fetish material as somehow unique -- but to my eyes has offered mere quibbles about superheroines and the narrative role of antagonists. These are distinctions in search of a difference, and mainstream misdirections ignoring the bubble of consent around fetish fantasy material. I don't see evidence of a meaningful difference. Instead I see begging the question.

Anyone with an interest in fetish fantasy material fictionally portraying immoral or illegal acts must be on guard against deliberately pernicious elements exploiting the market. But we must also be on guard against misplaced good intentions suppressing expression that satisfies kink or curiosity in a harmless or even therapeutic manner.

I understand that some fetish fantasy material is abhorrent to some people. I hope that we all do. I've encountered clip descriptions, images, and moments and themes in material that trigger dismay, disgust, and revulsion. Indeed, most of what's out there is not for me. And I know that there are people who want such things to be real, and I am compelled by the social contract and basic human decency to be vigilant against their interests. I hope that we all are. And I know there is disagreement and degree and nuance to what's acceptable and problematic and enabling and overzealous in the real world -- I don't think the board can go a month without sucking a post into the social justice vortex -- so we won't all be compelled to action at the same time in the same way. But I hope we'll all stand up when we need to.

And if the case is made that a hate/violence propaganda operation has infiltrated the market, let's suss out how to defend the market, ourselves, and the world we live in against it.

But I don't see that the case has been made here.

If you agree with GeekyPornCritic, please help him make his case.

[Femina]

Well said Imagineer. I personally see topics falling into the 'social justice vortex' a 'relatively' good sign of the overall health of the fetish (at least as far as this forum goes) since if we can slow down and consider questions of morality/ethics/sociology etc. of our fetish it generally means we are all thinking logically and rationally... most of the time even the people who completely disagree with me are at least offering up intelligible arguments and impress, while not always attitudes I can get behind, a confidence that they're capable of safe interaction... no one I've ever had long winded philosophical arguments with here has ever given me cause to be worried about their participation in society... not that I'm trying to get overly analytical or indicate I'm even a right judge by which to ascertain anyone else's participation in society or anything... this is just the sort of topic that gets the philosophical gears turning.

Anyhow, I agree, I can't see the difference between racism porn and sexism porn as being different or varied enough to reasonably take a stance against when I clearly subscribe to the other.... I suppose it's not unfair to point out that it isn't uncommon for those creating content, either for profit or out of hobby, to create characters and heroines that aren't just an object for abuse, but characters involved in a power fantasy/tragedy and you can often tell which those are just by the language utilized in the product/story/artwork, whose perspective the story is from, how competent or capable the heroine is etc... but even the most heroine oriented, most female victorious of all SHiP stories, even those that champion an overall or near ever present victory at the end for the heroine, is still banking on that heroine's suffering and peril generating arousal in the inbetween...

All of this is to ask... and I mean to put it forth as something to think about not as me attempting to be persuasive, how is racism porn different in how it seeks to arouse? I haven't seen the video in question and therefore don't know the spirit and execution of it, how it uses racism as its fetish or otherwise... but even so, in my own fetish I see videos and read pieces of stories that turn my off or cause an eye roll all the time, these are the stories where there's no empathy whatsoever written for the woman, its all about the thug attacking the super'cow' where quite often you don't ever here a peep from the heroine. They aren't for me, and often I think to myself 'this was written by a misogynist' BUT there is no reasonable or rational method that I could possibly take to attack these kinds of stories and tell myself that I was somehow completely right to do so. I write smut to, I may try to give my heroines character, I may at the end always try to enforce that the heroines are in the right, that their struggles are worth it, that what happens to them is wrong and unfair..... but I'm still only writing it because the bits in the middle ring all the right bells. I've little doubt whatsoever that there are people out there who would read my stories and go 'what a fucked up monstrous freak of a human being!'

[GeekyPornCritic]

Let me ask a few questions in fairness. Does the majority of racism porn feature African Americans? How would you feel if the majority of racism porn targeted or featured your race? I have been watching porn since I was college over 10 year ago. I have never seen any racist terms/names said about other races in porn. Those videos may exist, and I just missed them.

Let me dig deeper. If you were African American would you let your lover call you a N word? As a black man, I would end the relationship on that notion and remove the person from my life.

Could you look a group of African Americans in their eyes and say racism porn is an acceptable fetish?

Since we all enjoy SHIP and as many say it can be viewed as rape pornography. Let me point out the biggest difference between SHIP and Racism porn. There are men and women, who have fantasies of being raped. It's more common than you may expect. These people would not allow someone to rape them in reality. They simply fantasize about a someone they find attractive raping them and ask their lovers to role play scenarios.

On the other hand, it is very uncommon for an African American to fantasize being on a plantation and not having equal rights. It is common for white supremacist to find black sex workers and sexually assault them.

[Mr. X]

Let me dig deeper. If you were African American would you let your lover call you a N word?

Why do they let comedians and rappers do it?

[Abductorenmadrid]

Despite knowing what a quagmire this is I'll just chip in here as it's a topic that's been weighing on my mind as a writer here for some time.

From what I understand this thread was kicked off over what sounds like an interracial sex scene. And also as I understand it, the scene is "rough" and the scenario was set up by having the actress in character (important) using the N word (as part of the script- important too) to trigger the male character into action. It's not my fantasy nor many others, but it's somebody's and are we not all beholden to some fantasy or other, whether it be morally good or not?

I despise the N word and no fan of racism in general but I am not blind. It exists in the real world and ends up being reflected in film, books and TV drama too. So, are script and story writers and their works "racist" because they create content that has some reality to it?Is a show like "The Wire" racist or does its charged dialogue and storyline genuinely portray that part of the world?

I currently have a African-American character in a story and have been somewhat nervous of having any scene which features racism or harsh dialogue solely because I'm fearful it would reflect upon me. It shouldn't be that way but I can easily imagine people here in this forum confusing what my written creations say and do with who I am and what I am really like.

And so we come back to the clip in the spotlight. Who is to say that just as Leonardo di Caprio was dying inside as he delivered his poisonous lines in Django Unchained the actress in this clip4sale scene wasn't dying too?

[Femina]

Since we all enjoy SHIP and as many say it can be viewed as rape pornography. Let me point out the biggest difference between SHIP and Racism porn. There are men and women, who have fantasies of being raped. It's more common than you may expect. These people would not allow someone to rape them in reality. They simply fantasize about a someone they find attractive raping them and ask their lovers to role play scenarios.

This is just it though you're kind of making a point against yourself here. Those racism porn videos you are talking about aren't any more real than SHiP videos, they involve actors and actresses playing roles. If the people behind the camera are treating them poorly thats one thing, but the FANTASY doesn't stop being a fantasy just because its about racism instead of rape. Just because you personally won't role play racist sex with your lover doesn't mean there aren't just as many African Americans, Mexicans, or anyone else out there doing that, and probably in similar volume as there are men and women 'playing' rape. Those people aren't necessarily treating others with racism nor allowing themselves to be treated with racism 'in reality'... they are possibly just fantasizing about someone they find attractive treating them (or treating someone they find attractive) with racism.

Fantasy and consent are the key's here. Unless there is cause to believe that the men and women in those videos are being treated poorly or unfairly, then there just isn't anything that massive differentiating those productions from the ones we consume.

[Imagineer]

Could you look a group of

We can stop right there, because sexuality and any fetish is so taboo that you do not speak about it in polite company or with people you're not sure can handle discussing the topic with you.

How would you feel if the majority of racism porn targeted or featured your race?

Like it's a reflection of deep-seated social issues.

If you were African American would you let your lover call you a N word?

In what context? Out of nowhere? Regardless of race, barring the socially-accepted form used among African American friends, that word demands an awkward pause and a sincere apology. If it's part of a fetish, we have to talk about it, and it may still be a bridge too far.

On the other hand, it is very uncommon for an African American to fantasize being on a plantation and not having equal rights.

This is a strawman, a deliberately extreme and narrowly-defined example. In sharp contrast to "fantasies of being raped" and "more common than you may expect." Regardless, being uncommon doesn't make the fetish fantasy illegitimate for those who have it. This entire space is uncommon.

It is common for white supremacist to find black sex workers and sexually assault them.

And there you've gone completely over the edge with an inflammatory statement deliberately conflating fantasy and real behavior. You keep tilting the board thinking nobody will notice. It hurts your case.