Political Throwdown! It's Summerslam!

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KnightsofGotham.com
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Just read this article after a friend of mine kenny lee posted it on his Facebook page. What are your opinions?
https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/18 ... hose-side/
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I can't be arsed reading more stuff about paranoid yanks freaking out, can you summarise pls
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We're wired at a pretty low level to go along with a crowd, and to gather evidence that supports our feelings and beliefs.

But if you go to a protest and you don't like what the protesters are saying, say something yourself or walk away. If someone confronts you for being there and associating with a particular rhetoric, you've lost the opportunity to take no position -- your position will be established, whether you state one, remain silent, or attempt to deflect.

Of course, she could be afraid to stand up for what she believes because doing so will cause her harm. (What if your partner got swept up in something ugly?) But we've all got to make choices from less-than-great options from time to time, and we don't often get free passes from the consequences.
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There's really not much question of her leanings when she merrily joins in a march where white supremacists - including her own partner - were chanting "Jews will not replace us!"

If she's not a fully signed-up Nazi herself, the least worst possible explanation here is that she's a Nazi sympathizer. Either way, she's a villain.

Anyone who was going to hire her for a cosplay shoot should try to find a Jewish cosplayer instead.

"Sorry, Alisa. We replaced you with a Jewish girl. Looks like you got that prediction wrong."
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Wow...I have met her several times on the con scene too....always thought she was a hot blonde!! ...guess with that act she probably just ended her career!! I live in Baltimore and the city here is on edge with the statue news and I am surprised that the streets havent erupted in violence yet.....but what is odd is when you are out and about everyone is getting along just fine...seems the media likes to stoke the division, people of all races and colors and genders and sexual preferences get along every day just fine here and thats how it should be!!
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While I'm disappointed seeing her on the Nazi side, I'd be every bit as disappointed finding out she was Antifa.

Both useless groups in that "protest" should be sent off to outer space so the rest of us who respect others and their property can live in peace.
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We are all defined by the company we keep. If she is unhappy with the blowback she is receiving due to the protest, perhaps she should think of surrounding herself with a better class of friends.
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This whole thing has really been grinding my gears!
The people within it who made the news meet a laymans definition of Nazi - there was a guy there with a Nazi flag at least. I understand the protest was advertised as "Unite the Right" and that many people there on that "side" were not on board with the whole "white supremacist" thing, but people choose to take the most extreme members as representative of the whole group. Even pointing that out draws accusations. I refuse to judge individuals by their membership of some demographic. Evidence or GTFO.
You might very well think that this owes to the media using this event as a tool to fight their political opponents, and endangering lives in the process. I couldn't possibly comment. To conclude that everyone there was the same seems at best naive.
Similarly, to claim those on the "other side" were "antifa" thugs is similarly simplistic. There were some there to fight and smash things up, and likely many more peaceful protestors, including the poor girl who died.
What would have happened if the police hadn't been ordered to not do their jobs? Probably a lot less.
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Removed. I'm not going to get kafka trapped.
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mcg wrote:
6 years ago
While I'm disappointed seeing her on the Nazi side, I'd be every bit as disappointed finding out she was Antifa.

Both useless groups in that "protest" should be sent off to outer space so the rest of us who respect others and their property can live in peace.
While Antifa may use questionable tactics, which I'm not going to defend, they don't carry the ideological baggage of wanting to execute or otherwise banish entire races, religions and sexual orientations. The white supremacists are objectively worse people. There is no ideological equivalence between the two "sides" of protesters last weekend.
ivandobsky wrote:
6 years ago
This whole thing has really been grinding my gears!
The people within it who made the news meet a laymans definition of Nazi - there was a guy there with a Nazi flag at least. I understand the protest was advertised as "Unite the Right" and that many people there on that "side" were not on board with the whole "white supremacist" thing, but people choose to take the most extreme members as representative of the whole group. Even pointing that out draws accusations. I refuse to judge individuals by their membership of some demographic. Evidence or GTFO.
You might very well think that this owes to the media using this event as a tool to fight their political opponents, and endangering lives in the process. I couldn't possibly comment. To conclude that everyone there was the same seems at best naive.
Similarly, to claim those on the "other side" were "antifa" thugs is similarly simplistic. There were some there to fight and smash things up, and likely many more peaceful protestors, including the poor girl who died.
What would have happened if the police hadn't been ordered to not do their jobs? Probably a lot less.
Is there any evidence of people on the Unite the Right rally actually objecting to the chants of "Jews will not replace us" and "Blood and soil"? Is there evidence of mild-mannered historians on that rally who just wanted to protect a statue and voiced opposition to all the white supremacist stuff?

If the "most extreme members" weren't representative of the people on that rally, there must be a load of evidence of the reasonable majority objecting to the presence of the KKK and other white supremacist groups, right? I mean, what sort of reputable gathering wants the KKK to tag along?

The subject of this very thread, Alisa Kiss was right there holding hands with a white supremacist while he chanted "Jews will not replace us!"

There's no ambiguity here. If someone happily marches alongside white supremacists chanting about white supremacy, they're either an unabashed racist or someone who is really, really sympathetic to racist ideology.

I know people on here sometimes think the racist card is overplayed. However, when we're talking about white supremacists, there's really no doubt whatsoever that we're talking about the most brazen and obvious racists.

As for the word Nazi, it is entirely appropriate for people who actually chanted Nazi slogans or proudly stood shoulder to shoulder with those who chanted Nazi slogans.
To be fair, this isn't normal politics. We have an exceptional set of circumstances in which a fairly well-known and well-liked fetish/cosplay model has appeared in public holding hands with a white supremacist while he chanted "Jews will not replace us!"

That's pretty discussion-worthy on a forum where she has previously been regarded as a cute model.
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This was mentioned on another thread (an old one) about Alisa Kiss and I will say here what I said there. For future posters lets not have this descend into attacks against each other.
You have all done a good job so far about debating the thread topic so lets keep it that way ( this is a pre emptive strike on my part no one has overstepped the mark yet, lets please keep it that way.)
And there is a link in the other thread to footage of her holding hands with her boyfriend whilst he chants anti jewish slogans .No chants about preserving historical heritage so cant see how anyone involved could claim it was about the statues and not overt racism/fascism. I had always liked her cosplay, but it turns out she should be wearing the Fausta gear not that of Sg. A great pity that in the 21st Century some educated people still have views from the 16th.
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Hope that's the last we see of her. This shouldn't be an even remotely controversial statement but here we go, Nazis Are Bad. How do you know somebody is a Nazi? If they go to a Nazi demonstration with a bunch of other Nazis that's usually a giveaway. I mean that's literally what a political demonstration is, I am here, I stand with these people, we demand to be heard. And in this case she was standing with Nazis.

I feel really bad for the people who have worked with her and not known. It must be pretty gross to find out somebody you work with, especially in a job like that one, is that messed up.
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Before this escalates I want to make my position clear before the ban and therefore not accused of defending my part in"breaking the rules"
What i posted wasnt meant as a political argument starter nor was it meant to troll the forum.

my intention was to bring light to the fact that a well known and well liked person who cosplays many heroes but was best known for her supergirl was at an event on the side of the right.
I know this person. Have worked with this person, has eaten and hung out with this person and have had several emails and private messages and facebook posts and messages with this person.
she isnt just a name on the news and she was gathering with nazis to march.

many of us have followed her cosplay and roles with heroine producers.

for many of us she is a person whos on the inside circle of friends and acquaintances
and here she is being outed as a nazi.

its news for our community.
this isnt just some nobody who did a thing or said a thing.

Im wondering how many other people knew her as I do and are shocked by this?

so please lets try to keep this within the realm of a famous cosplayer in our community rather than an instrument to rant about snowflakes and alt-righters.

It would suck if this thread got shut down because people who have spread the bile across other boards bring it to yet another one when this topic actually has to do with this community.
thats all I have
carry on.
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I agree. This is about a SHiP figure espousing - or, at the very least, sympathizing with - Nazi ideology.

Also, this hasn't happened yet, but it would probably be best to avoid the issue of Trump's reaction to Charlottesville.
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KoG I view this as a cause of legitimate discussion for the community as this directly affects us here (and everybody, I know the world is talking about it in a wider political sense) so I view it as a fair point to post on at the moment and as I say no one has overstepped the mark so just everybody keep it that way, please
As mentioned above lets not touch on the wider political turmoil everybody.
Thanks
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Wow. Well I quickly did the very first thing any sensible SHIP fan does: I went to C4S.

Lo and behold, all of the Alisa Kiss superheroine videos are gone. Searching for Alisa Kiss still gets you listings of her Supergirl stuff for
Jessica Nova's Harlequin Heroines, but when you link to those videos, they have all been removed. There are basically no videos left from her on that site. Social Justice against a closet anti-Semite is swift.
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AlisaKiss.DeviantArt is still populated with cosplay photos, and the general comments area is infected with the news. I expect she hasn't pulled the plug on this only because her Newest Deviation is June 8, 2016, and she probably hasn't thought of it yet.
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Removed. I'm not going to get kafka trapped.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
viewtopic.php?f=69&t=29575

This topic is a kafka trap.
I just cant agree with you.
This is 100% different than topics about lefties and righties.
its different than obama and trump
republican or democrat.
this topic involves one of our own and is relevant. as long as people dont make this into a left vs right we should be fine.
as long as the lefties dont come out swinging at the righties and the righties dont come out swinging at the lefties this should be fine.

in other words only people with an agenda can derail this and make it toxic.
As long as we stick to Alissa and not start arguing over semantics and sides it should be fine

Again.
As long as others dont try to make this about their agenda we should be fine.

having said all that if MH decides its not a legitimate topic of conversation (seeing as she is ingrained into this community)
this is the second time you have made your point. lets wait to hear what MH rules before we try saying it a third time?
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Removed. I'm not going to get kafka trapped.
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Okay, so the evidence provided seems pretty damning. The important question for us as a community is what happens next? Are we pretty much just done with this actress? Does she have a road to redemption open to her if she publicly states she wants it?

If so what is it? For me at least the very first step would have to be acknowledging what she did to make everyone so upset and making it clear to her former fans that she understands why standing with Nazis is wrong.
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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
There is no way to disagree in the slightest, even with side comments, without being labelled a Nazi. This is a rigged discussion.
in other words only people with an agenda can derail this and make it toxic.
How is this whole topic NOT an agenda and how is any disagreement not going to be labelled an "agenda"?
well....thanks to you its pretty much destined to get locked. thanks. good job
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Just to be clear, I'm not commenting about the acress here insofar as her motivations (because it seems pretty clear via the whole 'red cross' thing where she falls in this) but the perception of the Protestors as a whole, which I find troubling. I don't imagine I'd be all that unlikely to watch a video with her in it (in a Supergirl costume) anymore now than I ever was. I mean... I get off empathizing with a heroine being defeated, humiliated and disgraced? She has provided that in her videos without advertising Fascist rhetoric as far as I know. Who am I to judge as long as I get my fix and she doesn't try to shove her beliefs down my throat via something I actually purchased right?

I had a long response to this, 'philosophically' but it all basically boiled down to this. Call a Nazi a Nazi, call a racist a racist, but don't call someone who happens to be standing next to a Nazi and a Racist a Racist Nazi. You need to have evidence to label something, and to place a label on something requires absolute definition of what that label means in the thing being labeled... which is just a fancy way of saying, you can't label the protestors protesting the monument's removal as a 'Nazi mob' or a 'racist mob' or anything more than a mob protesting the removal of a historical monument because that was the one and only thing they ALL had in common being there. Everything else is up to individuals and should be treated individually.

History doesn't change just because we tear down a monument. If we need the space for something, and don't believe in the monument fine, tear it down and put whatever you needed the space for there, but a Monument isn't good or evil, it's what whomever is looking at the monument believes it is. Tearing it down JUST to tear it down to me sort of feels like attempting to pretend like it isn't symbolic of something that happened and is worth remembering... which I'm sure I can't be the only person who feels this way, but the Civil War ought never EVER be forgotten, for more reasons than can be counted.
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Removed. I'm not going to get kafka trapped.
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tallyho wrote:
6 years ago
KoG I view this as a cause of legitimate discussion for the community as this directly affects us here (and everybody, I know the world is talking about it in a wider political sense) so I view it as a fair point to post on at the moment and as I say no one has overstepped the mark so just everybody keep it that way, please
As mentioned above lets not touch on the wider political turmoil everybody.
Thanks
What he said ^^^^^^

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Mr. X wrote:
6 years ago
KnightsofGotham.com wrote:
6 years ago

well....thanks to you its pretty much destined to get locked. thanks. good job
Yup its all my fault. I started the thread.

But I am glad this thread actually occurred. It shows that if you have a view that even slightly deviates from the view of a group of mask wearing bullies in even the slightest way then you will be doxxed and have all your material removed from the web. It shows how scary, wicked and politically correct the entire adult industry actually is.

What are those hoods and masks for if antifa people believe in accountability for views?
I'm not sure if carrying the red cross counts as a 'slight deviation from the view of the group' really, nor that it couldn't be said her own actions aren't as directly responsible for the result as those who 'doxxed' her and removed her material from the web. She and her boyfriend could just as easily have gone to the protest WITHOUT the red cross couldn't they? It's not exactly unfair of people to look at the symbols someone is carting around and come to their own conclusions about what associating themselves with that individual will result in. They may be wrong conclusions sometimes, and it's only fair of them to listen to and hear the explanation if presented with it (which I absolutely DO agree ordinarily ends in bullying and shut downs but this is true of basically EVERY opinion EVERYWHERE because the commenting portion of the internet is more often populated by people wanting to attack more than converse) but its still sort of every individuals personal responsibilities to concern themselves with how the symbols they choose to adorn themselves will be perceived by others and to either consider their choice a mistake OR accept the consequences of what choosing to wear those symbols will bring for them... ordinarily the repercussions aren't as big as they are made out to be but some symbols deservedly resonate more than others.
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I think the bell can't be unrung. If she isn't sincerely contrite, she'll be dogged by comments that she's a racist. If she is sincerely contrite, she'll be dogged by comments that she's caved or sold out. Either way it only takes a few motivated commenters to dominate any public forum, and either way I'm sure there's no shortage of volunteers, so any online space she inhabits that allows comments will be a battleground. In such a crucible how can she be anything close to what she's been? Can a monetizing cosplayer who's been outed on such a radioactive issue construct a space sufficiently removed from the commentariat that it can just be about the cosplay? I don't think it's practical.

And what if she gives the issues a lot of thought and develops a nuanced point of view considering immigration and prejudice and privilege and public discourse and iconography -- what chance is there that it could rise above the noise of the Nazi binary? Not much, I'm afraid.

So I wonder how much of her disappearance has been her own doing, since disappearing seems the quickest way to having her life be something other than a political shitstorm.
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shevek wrote:
6 years ago
Wow. Well I quickly did the very first thing any sensible SHIP fan does: I went to C4S.

Lo and behold, all of the Alisa Kiss superheroine videos are gone. Searching for Alisa Kiss still gets you listings of her Supergirl stuff for
Jessica Nova's Harlequin Heroines, but when you link to those videos, they have all been removed. There are basically no videos left from her on that site. Social Justice against a closet anti-Semite is swift.
Good.

She's not a 'closet anti-semite' she is a person who attends Nazi rallies. That's a huge distinction.
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It's good that she's being criticized for marching with anti-Semites.

It's bad that her stuff is being taken down and people are talking about blacklisting her. Ideally, no one would be punished for holding an opinion, no matter how ugly or unpopular. If producers don't want to work with her or webmasters don't want to post her stuff, that's their own business. But if we only worked with those we agreed with politically, we'd never get anything done.

I'm not crazy about, say, Paris Dylan being a Trump fan (and I was almost as disturbed to find out she was a Peter and Gordon fan). I didn't care for Melissa Benoist's "pussy of steel" sign at the women's march or some of the Supergirl TV series writers' ham-handed liberal propaganda. I'm sure I vehemently disagree with Mr. X on plenty of things. But I don't think any of them should be denied work because of their political opinions.

Also, we should keep in mind that a lot of mainstream folks would consider the work promoted on this site as fringe-group bigotry (of the sexist kind). Should the site be shut down? Should we lose our day jobs? Should we be blacklisted and ostracized?

We ought to oppose fascism, but we should do it by not sinking to the level of the fascists themselves.
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Well Dogfish I meant that she was a closet anti-Semite before the rally, and by marching with people shouting anti-Semitic slogans she came out of the closet. Even as a Jew who doesn't want to see an anti-Semite succeed, I'm still pissed that Alisa's Supergirl transformation videos are gone so quickly, because to be honest it would have been nice to have them as a unique collector's item before they disappeared, since you know you're never going to see them again.

This is for Mr. X: I do, of course, understand that the cowardly violent masked thugs of Antifa are also anti-Semitic (they absolutely hate the existence of Israel, and they also despise a lot of rich capitalist Jews..except of course the ones that funnel money to their cause
like George Soros). And of course that dovetails with the rabid anti-Semitism of radical Islam which seems to stab or kill someone in Europe
every couple of days.....

I personally don't care if certain SHIPpers are Trump supporters - that doesn't necessarily mean they are racist at all. Unless they say racist stuff like Alisa did.

re DeviantArt: Yeah, looks like she hasn't been on her DA for quite a while. Listing her name on there might get her hounded by Antifas in Atlanta, though. As for her photos on DA, though, the vast majority that aren't on her page are either on the pages of Sleeperkid or Insane-Pencil (a photographer named Michael Iacca), and neither of those DA pages have been hit by any comments yet.

As far as the blacklisting of Alisa Kiss, the obvious reason for it is fear of reprisal. So many of the Unite the Right marchers were attacked, doxxed and lost their jobs, etc. As Mike2 just pointed out, the whole existence of SHIP is politically incorrect by nature. Therefore, bringing "woke" attention to the SHIP scene is a bad idea. A producer like Jessica Nova (I imagine she might even be Jewish? dunno) doesn't want outraged internet Antifas attacking her online presence - it's bad for her business. There might well be outright SJWs (ok let's call them activist progressive leftists) producing SHIP themselves, who can conveniently compartmentalize the fetish. But even they don't want to attract attention to SHIP that would result in internet outrage.

So here's the interesting thing: right in the middle of this whole Charlottesville mess this week, I experienced my very own "political correctness crisis" in my own superheroine video production schedule. It was with regards to an upcoming episode that I am going to
film in November. I wound up having to solve the crisis by caving it a bit to identity politics so that everyone involved could remain
happy and eager to work on the production. It's unfortunate but it made everything work smoothly. I don't want to discuss the details
behind this kerfluffle right now, but I will after the video comes out.
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BTW, going to Sleeperkidsworld site (to see if Alisa vids are still up there, or anything about the controversy has been mentioned) yields nothing but a Malware notice ("threat has been detected"). Is anyone else finding that SKW's site is down? And if so could it have been attacked by anti-fascist hackers? (just speculating)
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mike2 wrote:
6 years ago
It's bad that her stuff is being taken down and people are talking about blacklisting her. Ideally, no one would be punished for holding an opinion, no matter how ugly or unpopular. If producers don't want to work with her or webmasters don't want to post her stuff, that's their own business...
This is exactly whats going on: these producers and webmasters no longer want to post her stuff so its been taken down. And her being "blacklisted" isn't some official thing that like a union is enforcing, its a collective decision to not work with her any more. Any producer is free to ignore that if they want and hire.

Ideally people SHOULD be punished for their opinions , especially if those opinions are as terrible as agreeing with Nazis! If people WEREN'T punished for their opinions then there wouldn't be consequences for said opinions. And I don't know about anyone else, but I REALLY don't want to live in a world were there are never any consequences for things, especially things this extreme.

It really is simple: she publicly outed herself as a supporter of Nazis. She is now facing the consequences of making that support public. Producers and fans have decided that at least for now they don't want to be associated with her or be seen financially supporting her. This doesn't have to be the end of her career. She could publicly show that she understands why people are so mortified and repulsed and say that she's changed her opinions and decide to associate with other people. She's free NOT to do that, but then we are free to continue no longer wanting to associate with her.

Having seen situations like this play out plenty of times before (although not involving nazis) I personally expect her to simply lay low for a few days or weeks. Waking up one day and realizing your not just the protagonist of your own life story but the villain in many other peoples life stories is VERY jarring. People even double down and the horrible things they did or they change, but that change tends to take a lot of self reflection and thought and that takes time.
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Also this looks like it was added recently:

https://www.bleedingcool.com/2017/08/19 ... ttesville/

So it seems that, at least for now, she's doubling down on "I did nothing wrong" and beginning to start the oft used "I'm the real victim here because now my life is ruined" thing.
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That seems a very well balanced interview with good pertinent questions. This can't be the first time her husbands views have come out though so her position looks a tad weak
Thanks for the article
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Thanks tallyho. But, I am officially passing the thanks along to KnightsofGotham.com since I only found it going back to look at the article he originally posted.
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Removed. I'm not going to get kafka trapped.
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I'm amazed that people are talking about Nazism as just a different opinion. It is the same as saying that being in ISIS or the KKK is a quirky opinion. Bigotry of that kind is not a tolerable opinion, people should not have to tolerate it. Nazis should not be tolerated. They are political extremists.

Nazis and the far right kill people, commit acts of terrorism and their greater goal is literally genocide. That's their raison d'etre. There are plenty of racists out there, there are plenty of anti-semites out there, there are plenty of homophobes out there, who are not Nazis. Those are unpleasant prejudices but the difference between a regular racist and a Nazi is that the Nazi wants people gone, and the prefered method is death. We know this. We hear what they say, we see what they write, we know what they have done in the past.

It's a genuine worry that people have forgotten that the Nazis are about as close as the human race has gotten to pure evil. Everything ISIS are doing in Syria and Iraq? Nazis already did it and did it worse. Everything Stalin did, Nazis did worse. Everything Mau did, Nazis did worse. The worst human beings that our species has ever produced. Staggering how quickly people have forgotten. I bet if you go to Arlington Cemetary these days and listen real closely you can hear the sounds of thousands of bodies spinning in their graves.

It's also kind of insulting to think that this woman should keep working in the adult/fetish movie industry, which is a place teeming with LGBT folks and kinksters of every stripe, when she subscribes to an ideology that homosexuality and sexual deviancy should be punishable by death. I mean you can't expect somebody to want to work, especially in that kind of setting, with people who are activists whose long term goal is their extermination.

Or maybe she doesn't subscribe to those opinions. But here's a thought, if she doesn't, don't hang out with people who do.
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Philo Hunter
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Mr. X: I find your statement of moral equivocation between people that fight fascists, white supremacist and Nazis as being just as evil as them disgusting. I am publicly asking you to NEVER communicate with me in any manner and I will give you the same courtesy.

Mods, if you find this statement not okay feel free to delete it. But if his statement is allowed here without any repercussions. Ii would hope the mods would step in but understand if you don't want to, but if we are not allowed to push back against him and you consider MY statement political and worth deleting and not his then I no longer wish to take part in this forum in any way.
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MightyHypnotic
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How did I know that when I came back from a party today I would come here to find you all couldn't contain yourselves?

Thread has been retitled and moved to the misc area.
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The question is, should KoG get a 3 - day ban for inciting a riot? Even after he was warned by Mr. X and then tried to turn the tables?

Who wants to be on the tribunal? We already have 3 mods, we need 2 more able parties for the inquiry.
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*Sigh* this is how it starts.

Tribunal? Seriously? 3 day bans for pointing out an article that a fetish model was marching in Charlottesville, no matter how 'political' seems pretty darned relevant to the community if you ask me. Did Mr. X delete all his posts BEFORE or AFTER that warning? Should I go back and delete every post as well to avoid bans? I mean it, seriously, is this what posting on this website is going to be now? A constant fear that I've posted something that's going to result in a 3-day ban?
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MightyHypnotic wrote:
6 years ago
The question is, should KoG get a 3 - day ban for inciting a riot? Even after he was warned by Mr. X and then tried to turn the tables?

Who wants to be on the tribunal? We already have 3 mods, we need 2 more able parties for the inquiry.
Don't bother.

I thought the topic of a provider being doxxed and put out of business was actually quite useful since this fetish already is borderline on the brink of being crushed. If its that easy to put one provider out of business then think what could happen to everyone else for the slightest faux-pa. we saw what happened with C4S and how they can't use the word "chloroform" anymore. And just imagine if Visa decides to get all social justice like they did back in the 2007s and shut down a bunch of visa accounts.

People should be very concerned about this. This girl has her whole income destroyed. And plenty of people go to events that have radicals at them. Would hate to see someone get their whole studio shut down cause they were at an event with some radical communists or someone calling for the death of police officers.
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Dogfish and Philo: (Remember I am Jewish here, so I take anti-Semitism very seriously).If Alisa Kiss marries and marches next to a man who espouses rabid anti-Semitism, then she is to be excoriated. Certainly no Jew should work with her, at least. But I doubt that she thinks that homosexuality and sexual deviancy are punishable by death (Sharia style). If she did, she wouldn't have made lesbian fetish videos or worked in the adult/fetish industry. So that part of the claim seems unlikely.

As far as whether she could ever redeem herself, I would say nothing short of divorcing her current husband, writing a disavowal of his cohorts' beliefs and an outright apology would do. Since she seems unlikely to do that, I don't feel sorry for the consequences that have befallen her.

What I do feel weirded out by, though, is the swiftness of the sjw banhammer coming down on her. It's a symptom of the Internet age of instant/trendy outrage culture. Literally within a couple days of her appearance in that march, she was outed, doxxed, banned and wiped out from everywhere (except DA..and maybe they just haven't gotten around to it yet). And everyone has disassociated themselves from her essentially out of fear of collateral damages. That, in itself, if you think about it, is a purge-like totalitarian response to her own totalitarian viewpoint, when (as Mr. X points out) she committed no actual crime in America (which doesn't have a law against marching with Nazis like Germany does). Imagine if the same thing was done to you for a lot less of an offense.

And this is where the methods of Antifa come in, and how questionable they actually are. I have personally dealt with Antifa before. Because they believe the entire established political system is broken and ineffectual, the only justice Antifa believes in is mob justice, street style. I have seen them march into a situation, make absolute demands and shout slogans about smashing Nazis. Sure, some of the people they hate are actual Nazis, but not many..because to be honest, there aren't really that many actual Nazis in this country. What there are, are plenty of right-wing types with various intensities of opinion about all sorts of things, including libertarians, but Antifa hates them all as does the SPLC. More accurately, anyone who isn't sufficiently ultra-left enough is someone that these radical anarchists disagree with, and then they tar anyone they don't like with the brush of "Nazi" or "fascist" or simply "white cismale scum." Sure, they are not right-wing Nazi physical genocidists, but they are left-wing totalitarian cultural thugs.

More importantly with relation to this particular incident, Antifa also hates Jews. They hate Jews because unlike Nazis, who still consider Jews to be non-white, Antifa considers Jews to be white, and therefore Jews are part and parcel of the regime of the oppressive white patriarchy. In cohesion with the long-simmering undercurrent of anti-Semitism in the black militant community, Antifa also hates Jews for being capitalists, profiteers and entrepreneurs (eg Sergey Brin or Mark Zuckerberg) who perpetuate an exploitative economic system. And finally, Antifa hates Jews for having the gall to colonize a tiny portion of the Middle East and beating back Arabs of Colour to do it. Antifa is fine with self-determination for many indigenous causes throughout the world, but a Jewish population that has suffered through millennia of discrimination, persecution, expulsion, pogroms and Holocaust apparently does not deserve a country of their own where they can feel safe and defend themselves in a land area where the only self-determined political entities were previous Jewish and Canaanite kingdoms.

All three extreme positions (far left, far right, and radical Islam) hate Jews. They just each have different reasons for their hate. All three positions have also been responsible for huge genocides: Nazis did the Holocaust, of course. But far-left totalitarians Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot exterminated even more people than Hitler, and it was done for purely insane political reasons without even resorting to crazy racism. And a Muslim empire, the Turks, took out a couple million Armenians for a combination of ethnic and religious reasons. Pure Western capitalism and imperialism did a considerable amount of genocide as well, in the Americas, Australia and Africa (think King Leopold) among other places, but then again, Shaka Zulu killed a million of his neighbors in an imperial frenzy and many African dictators have been nearly as brutal (killings in the Congo over the past decade have outstripped the sins of Leopold), Genghis Khan killed and raped a hell of a lot more than anyone else in human history, the Japanese Empire pillaged and raped much of East Asia, and the Aztecs and Incas ploughed through their territories killing and ethnic cleansing. Yes, the Holocaust was the single worst tragedy, but there is just so much killing to go around from almost every human culture that it makes little sense, and it's incredibly biased, for folks like Antifa to advocate specifically "smashing the white man."

So back to my point about how fast the hammer came down on Alisa Kiss: if the wrath of organized SJW-dom can come down that fast on a sexy blonde cosplayer who does adult fetish videos...imagine if you didn't live up to the standards of the far-left (or the Sharia police, in locales from Tehran to Riyadh to Banda Aceh) and how quickly that force could be put to bear on you. It might not be technically 'equivalent' to the horrors of Nazism but it is far from pleasant.

Imagine what devastation could be wrought on the world of SHIP if one or two Anita Sarkeesian-esque leftist sjws made it their mission to focus on destroying our niche with the furor that was imposed on the Charlottesville marchers. I remember a time in the 70s and 80s when boycotts and moralistic campaigns came from the far Christian right, with the likes of Anita Bryant or Phyllis Schlafly. But now, the threat against politically incorrect sexual exploitation (which is essentially what SHIP is) is just as likely to emerge from the far-left, possibly even allied with both Sharia Law perspectives and right-wing puritanical ones. A Red-Green-Brown alliance against niche pornography would not be a pretty sight!

Also..since it was made clear here a couple years ago that the way to contact Alisa Kiss for customs is through Jessica Nova, I would be very interested to see Jessica's perspective on this matter - she clearly wiped out all her Alisa vids, and she posted as recently as two weeks ago here as Harlequin Studios. Could be that there's "no comment", but it never hurts to ask.

P.S. Still getting malware alerts from going to Sleeperkid's site. Anyone else having that problem?
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The concept of censorship doesn't really apply to what happened to Alisa Kiss, as clips4sale still lists 386 videos starring her. As Philo pointed out, a few individual producers haven chosen to remove Alisa's appearances from their stores. This is a commercial decision, based on personal distaste and/or the perceived harm to their business caused by advertising videos which feature a model with very close ties to white supremacism.

Hell, KoG once said that he had to postpone release of a load of videos starring a model who ripped off several forum members. If the reputational damage of something like that can be bad for business, just imagine how employing a Nazi - or, at the very least, a Nazi sympathizer - might affect sales.

This isn't some sinister "SJW justice" at work. It's individual producers showing an awareness that a lot of customers may vote with their wallets. Also, a lot of the producers may be more than a little queasy at having worked with the sort of person who marches with Nazis and even held the hand of her charming Nazi husband while he screamed delightful antisemitic slogans at an event which received a huge amount of media coverage.

Clip4sale hasn't blacklisted or censored Alisa. Visa hasn't blacklisted or censored Alisa. She lost her website because her own webmaster was personally sickened to see her public show of support for white supremacy. No doxxing required, as she outed herself by publicly holding hands with a Nazi while he chanted Nazi slogans.

You can posit a future SJW takedown of SHiP if you want. However, the reality in this instance is producers having the freedom to decide who and what they want associated with their brand. To borrow one of Mr X's phrases, producers are not public utilities.
Last edited by Heroine Addict 6 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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I take back what I said about C4S...Heroine Addict did some better research than I did. I assumed that because all of the recent Harlequin Studios videos starring Alisa Kiss were gone from the first page of videos that I searched, that she was no longer very much on C4S at all, and this is not the case. There are videos up starring her on stores from Reya Fet, League of Amazing Women and Tied-N-Cuffed. Thanks for correcting that, Heroine Addict. You're right, it's about decisions of individual producers. Of course, you can't rule out that more "decisions" might be coming down the pike as these other producers decide how to react to the news. Guess we'll see. Again, I'm not sorry this happened to her anyway. She dug her own hole nearly impossible to get out of.
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shevek wrote:
6 years ago
Dogfish and Philo: (Remember I am Jewish here, so I take anti-Semitism very seriously).If Alisa Kiss marries and marches next to a man who espouses rabid anti-Semitism, then she is to be excoriated. Certainly no Jew should work with her, at least. But I doubt that she thinks that homosexuality and sexual deviancy are punishable by death (Sharia style). If she did, she wouldn't have made lesbian fetish videos or worked in the adult/fetish industry. So that part of the claim seems unlikely.
It was a Nazi rally. If she doesn't believe that because it is expedient to her career that's one thing, but she was publicly demonstrating alongside people that do. Maybe I'm being crazy to say this but I take it that, when somebody marches under the Swastika, they are okay with all the killing done by the Nazis. Because, y'know, if you're not okay with that, then you don't march under the Swastika.

And the Nazis attempted to eradicate LGBT people alongside the Jews, alongside socialists and trade unionists, alongside the disabled and the mentally ill, alongside the gypsies, and thousands of other people who just ended up in the camps because they were plum unlucky.

So, I mean, if somebody came up to you and said that they were a full blown Islamic extremist, supporter of ISIS, all that stuff. And they told you that they didn't have a problem with gay people, would you believe them? Or would you realise that even if they didn't have a problem with gay people, their willingness to support people who would murder gay people was nearly exactly as objectionable a position?




shevek wrote:
6 years ago

As far as whether she could ever redeem herself, I would say nothing short of divorcing her current husband, writing a disavowal of his cohorts' beliefs and an outright apology would do. Since she seems unlikely to do that, I don't feel sorry for the consequences that have befallen her.

What I do feel weirded out by, though, is the swiftness of the sjw banhammer coming down on her. It's a symptom of the Internet age of instant/trendy outrage culture. Literally within a couple days of her appearance in that march, she was outed, doxxed, banned and wiped out from everywhere (except DA..and maybe they just haven't gotten around to it yet). And everyone has disassociated themselves from her essentially out of fear of collateral damages. That, in itself, if you think about it, is a purge-like totalitarian response to her own totalitarian viewpoint, when (as Mr. X points out) she committed no actual crime in America (which doesn't have a law against marching with Nazis like Germany does). Imagine if the same thing was done to you for a lot less of an offense.
Disassociated because of fear of collateral damage? Mate, she's a fucking Nazi! People aren't dumping her out of their lives because they are worried about how it looks, they are doing it because nearly every human being with an even vague knowledge of 20th century history thinks that the idea of being a Nazi is morally repulsive. And this is absolutely their right. I have no problem with how people have responded because in an industry that requires trust between performers, nobody should be expected to work with a person who is (at best) a Nazi sympathiser.
shevek wrote:
6 years ago

And this is where the methods of Antifa come in, and how questionable they actually are. I have personally dealt with Antifa before. Because they believe the entire established political system is broken and ineffectual, the only justice Antifa believes in is mob justice, street style. I have seen them march into a situation, make absolute demands and shout slogans about smashing Nazis. Sure, some of the people they hate are actual Nazis, but not many..because to be honest, there aren't really that many actual Nazis in this country. What there are, are plenty of right-wing types with various intensities of opinion about all sorts of things, including libertarians, but Antifa hates them all as does the SPLC. More accurately, anyone who isn't sufficiently ultra-left enough is someone that these radical anarchists disagree with, and then they tar anyone they don't like with the brush of "Nazi" or "fascist" or simply "white cismale scum." Sure, they are not right-wing Nazi physical genocidists, but they are left-wing totalitarian cultural thugs.

More importantly with relation to this particular incident, Antifa also hates Jews. They hate Jews because unlike Nazis, who still consider Jews to be non-white, Antifa considers Jews to be white, and therefore Jews are part and parcel of the regime of the oppressive white patriarchy. In cohesion with the long-simmering undercurrent of anti-Semitism in the black militant community, Antifa also hates Jews for being capitalists, profiteers and entrepreneurs (eg Sergey Brin or Mark Zuckerberg) who perpetuate an exploitative economic system. And finally, Antifa hates Jews for having the gall to colonize a tiny portion of the Middle East and beating back Arabs of Colour to do it. Antifa is fine with self-determination for many indigenous causes throughout the world, but a Jewish population that has suffered through millennia of discrimination, persecution, expulsion, pogroms and Holocaust apparently does not deserve a country of their own where they can feel safe and defend themselves in a land area where the only self-determined political entities were previous Jewish and Canaanite kingdoms.

All three extreme positions (far left, far right, and radical Islam) hate Jews. They just each have different reasons for their hate. All three positions have also been responsible for huge genocides: Nazis did the Holocaust, of course. But far-left totalitarians Mao, Stalin and Pol Pot exterminated even more people than Hitler, and it was done for purely insane political reasons without even resorting to crazy racism. And a Muslim empire, the Turks, took out a couple million Armenians for a combination of ethnic and religious reasons. Pure Western capitalism and imperialism did a considerable amount of genocide as well, in the Americas, Australia and Africa (think King Leopold) among other places, but then again, Shaka Zulu killed a million of his neighbors in an imperial frenzy and many African dictators have been nearly as brutal (killings in the Congo over the past decade have outstripped the sins of Leopold), Genghis Khan killed and raped a hell of a lot more than anyone else in human history, the Japanese Empire pillaged and raped much of East Asia, and the Aztecs and Incas ploughed through their territories killing and ethnic cleansing. Yes, the Holocaust was the single worst tragedy, but there is just so much killing to go around from almost every human culture that it makes little sense, and it's incredibly biased, for folks like Antifa to advocate specifically "smashing the white man."

So back to my point about how fast the hammer came down on Alisa Kiss: if the wrath of organized SJW-dom can come down that fast on a sexy blonde cosplayer who does adult fetish videos...imagine if you didn't live up to the standards of the far-left (or the Sharia police, in locales from Tehran to Riyadh to Banda Aceh) and how quickly that force could be put to bear on you. It might not be technically 'equivalent' to the horrors of Nazism but it is far from pleasant.

Imagine what devastation could be wrought on the world of SHIP if one or two Anita Sarkeesian-esque leftist sjws made it their mission to focus on destroying our niche with the furor that was imposed on the Charlottesville marchers. I remember a time in the 70s and 80s when boycotts and moralistic campaigns came from the far Christian right, with the likes of Anita Bryant or Phyllis Schlafly. But now, the threat against politically incorrect sexual exploitation (which is essentially what SHIP is) is just as likely to emerge from the far-left, possibly even allied with both Sharia Law perspectives and right-wing puritanical ones. A Red-Green-Brown alliance against niche pornography would not be a pretty sight!

Also..since it was made clear here a couple years ago that the way to contact Alisa Kiss for customs is through Jessica Nova, I would be very interested to see Jessica's perspective on this matter - she clearly wiped out all her Alisa vids, and she posted as recently as two weeks ago here as Harlequin Studios. Could be that there's "no comment", but it never hurts to ask.

P.S. Still getting malware alerts from going to Sleeperkid's site. Anyone else having that problem?

First off, antifa are one thing and one thing only, antifascists. It's a wide and diverse group with many different political beliefs and it has been so since it first existed, about five minutes after fascism appear. The history of violent antifascism goes back to the early 20th century and the people who have over the years taken to the streets to stop the far right, while they have not always been popular, are heroes. Simple as that. We have seen what happens when Nazis get into power. Nobody can argue that Nazis are anything but evil. Antifascists will turn up wherever Nazis march and confront them, sometimes with force. There is nothing wrong with that.

As for the fear of SJW-dom coming down on somebody who has done nothing wrong, it's a myth. A person might find their career suddenly torpedoed if revelations about their life come out, but it will only ever really stick if it is something that ordinary folks find objectionable. And the threat to niche pornography, in the UK at least, has come from the political right and centre.

You should bear in mind when complaining about the left and about 'woke'-type ideologies, they are basically the only team in the political game that has the back of kinksters and places like this. We've got more in common with the folks who like to stick letters on the end of the LGBT acronym than we do with the traditional right or centrist groups. Not to mention the fact that sex workers rights, which are a fundamental issue in porn, accessing porn and the wellbeing of many of the performers whose work we enjoy, are very much a leftie thing. The free market certainly hasn't gone to bat for porn or for the people who work in it, which is why payment services (who only exist because credit card companies and services like Paypal have made a puritanical choice about how you may spend your money) are making a killing skimming a fat percentage off the top.

That said I can see how you might have reached the opposite conclusion. The left is constantly, aggressively, misrepresented, I mean for every video Anita Sarkeesian ever made there's probably a hundred saying why she is evil and trying to destroy all forms of fun. And there are plenty of old timey feminists and the like whose opinions are still touted as representative but that repressive shit is about two waves of feminism behind the times.
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Dont worry.
Ive learned my lesson.

Im done Posting anything that is not release related.
Im gonna stick to just posting as a producer here as thats the only safe way to post here.
for the record I didnt intend to have this descend into jet another left vs right
SJW vs Conservative free for all and when X started instigating maybe I should have kept my big mouth shut but I didnt want the thread deraikled and I guess I did just that.

Oh well.
Im human

but now I see that it didnt matter and Im getting a 3 day ban for it.

thats fine.
Ive said it before.
your sandbox, your rules.

Im just going to keep my trap shut and not bother trying to participate as a member of this forum.
I'll just keep posting my new releases and stick to being an outsider, its safer that way.

So thanks everyone for the chuckles and the interactions.

See you all next time when I have a new movie to release.
and if people turn that thread into a political hotmess Im gonna keep my mouth shut and let people shit all over the thread because thats the safest way not to get a three day ban or worse.

be well.
have fun.
it was nice being an interactive part of this community while it lasted.

See you at my next release
(or not at all if im destined to be perma-banned)
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What would it take for a girl like her to be forgiven?
Could she ever gain a life back in the industry?
If so what would it involve?
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