Are they getting a bit too close to us?

[shevek]

I don't want to have this couched in paranoid terms, but when ywf pointed out the article in the Guardian in late July, I couldn't help but think: is the media getting a bit too close to discovering the SHIP scene? As someone who has solicited writers to do hundreds of articles from the print media (and also written hundreds of articles for the same media), I can't help but wonder if we're eventually in for some kind of "Gate" like what happened with Gamergate and what seems to be happening in gradual slowmotion in the comicbook world right now (Milkshake Girls, etc.).

That July article was about 'bespoke' (who the hell ever uses that term other than fancypants artisanal yuppie types, anyway?) or custom porn and here is the link again:

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... l-requests

ywf pointed out that Christina Carter and Kymberly Jane are mentioned prominently in it, and though the mentions are about fairly innocent fetishes (like gremlins) that don't involve any peril, I would think it would be pretty easy for some random internet social-justice crusader to Google those names, poke around a bit, and find plenty of instances in custom videos that would be considered quite politically incorrect to the progressive left. A couple glances at TBFE or Alex David, for example, would cement it.

The Guardian, one of the world's leading progressive-leaning news sources (I get their feed every day) isn't a defender of porn. They only really do articles on porn when empowerment is involved (customs encourage that, to some extent), or when whatever they consider the detrimental aspects of porn are brought to light in some sort of investigative piece or social-commentary editorial. It only takes one yammering Tumbrite on their staff or the staff of a similar-leaning website like Salon or HuffPo or Jezebel, or a handful of third-wave bandersnatches on the Twittersphere, to create a SHIPgate. Hope that doesn't happen.

Speaking of The Guardian, it just ran a piece a couple days ago about the TV show The Deuce (starring James Franco) where director James Simon goes on and on about how terrible the porn industry is, and how it's all America's fault, and how America is poisoning the world with their objectification...and before porn, of course, everyone was so respectful and civilized and there was a lot less misogyny or objectification, etc. All lies and distortions, of course. But with James Simon's blather, it just goes to show you how close the views of social-crusading warriors like himself are to puritanical religions (especially fundamentalist Christianity, Islam and Hinduism, all of which have very disapproving views on pornography in general).

"If you're not consuming porn, you're still consuming its logic"
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radi ... w-the-wire

However, if you think such a scenario is crazy and could never happen, feel free to say so.

[Heroine Addict]

This genre is certain to be on the radar of anyone who has taken even a cursory glance at the fetish industry. It will also be on the radar of anyone who has ever done an unfiltered Google Image Search for any of the most popular superheroines.

It's naive to think that our fetishes have gone unnoticed over the years. Although it remains a mystery why DC, Marvel and moral guardians of various persuasions have pretty much left us alone.

[tallyho]

It was a front page magazine article on Superhero porn in Bizarre magazine that got me into this as an adult - that was in every British newsagent in 2010 or there abouts. As HA says its naive to think no one knows we are here.

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I loved Jerri Byrne in that set, felt she really bought into it with her facial expressions

[shevek]

Like HA, we should be glad that both the major comic book companies and the moral crusaders (right, left, and religious) have left us alone.

But whether *everyone* knows that we're here? I'm not so sure. Sure, porn and fetish people know, but I would think that nobody who's into porn or fetish has a problem with it. And then there are the people who Google superheroines. Most likely they probably don't even know what they're looking at, and just move on (the few that don't..they might become part of our scene).

I'm referring to outside those circles, with regards to social/moral activism like the people who protested Wonder Woman representing women at the UN. These days, it seems like every little politically incorrect thing (like for example, last year there was a brief kerfluffle over whether Oberlin's cafeteria food was 'culturally appropriating' Asian cuisine!) gets its day in the sun, especially on Twitter.

I think (thankfully) that there are a whole bunch of potentially action-based individuals who *do not know* we exist. For example, in my own social circles nobody at all knows about SHIP unless I've told them..nobody in my city has heard of any of the SHIP actresses who live here (unless they are personal
FB friends with them). And so on. Seems to me that could change in a flash if our scene somehow acquires a fastidious nemesis in the vein of an Antifa
or a Sarkeesian. Hopefully that doesn't happen!

[Imagineer]

I would hope that this forum and others like it would engage in swift and aggressive moderation to defend themselves against invasion. Seriously, if someone comes here and creates an account just to say how hurtful and evil any of this fetish content is, promptly delete their posts and ban them. Repeat as often as necessary. I'm happy to take a watch. Let that noise happen on Facetweet and wherever rabble is aroused.

"Bespoke" is pretty common in British English; it's just their word for "custom" -- bespoke suit, bespoke automobile. So don't read anything into the Guardian's use of the term.

The Guardian just ran a piece on The Deuce because it's HBO's latest prestige cable drama and they're out pimping it. HBO isn't selling it as a documentary, they're selling it as a titillating period piece. Whatever moralizing noise they make will probably disappear into the ether in a week unless the show's a massive hit, and even then it won't do anything more than reheat the sex-work-is-kind-of-yucky leftovers that mom pulls out of the freezer every once in a while and nobody really wants to eat. The Deuce is set in 1971, and that gives everybody a safe distance.

Of course we are ALWAYS one dedicated nutter in a bad mood away from a Twitter campaign to erase SHIP from existence. Unfortunately, the pace of production and publication lately makes the genre look huge -- there are HUNDREDS, probably THOUSANDS of these wretched hateful videos! -- nevermind there probably aren't many more active buyers than that. A campaign might get started to get Marvel and DC to aggressively scrub SHIP of their intellectual property. A campaign might get started to pressure credit card companies to take a moral stand and nuke accounts anywhere certain terms appear. After all, it's happened before, and that was before social media. And maybe some talent gets shy about taking SHIP gigs.

But there's still a pretty strong vein of sex-positivity out there, and I've seen it stymie attempts to gain outrage momentum before. IIRC in the press sharting for The Deuce somebody brought up Rashida Jones' campaign against sex workers (my phrasing, deliberate) -- many find it problematic. Then there's James Franco's participation in a 2013 documentary on Kink.com. Then there's James Deen's continued presence in the business after taking heat for real non-consensual activity, which I mention because regardless of what you think about it there was a social media shitstorm that passed without the porn industry or the payment industry feeling enough pressure to throw him in a volcano.

SHIP might find itself in a tight spot, and might lose a costume in the struggle, but I'm hopeful that it will escape and return to keep fighting.

[Renegade]

Seems to me that the "Social Justice Warriors" and the "Fundamentalist Religious Watchdogs" (of any denomination) would largely fall on opposite sides of the political spectrum. And the politicians who represent each group have different pluses and minuses for the porn industry at large. Though it appears to me that the SHiP niche is just not large enough to become an issue (outside of getting caught up in the larger taffy pulls about the industry).

As far as 'bespoke' porn, I think over the years piracy has had the effect of encouraging custom jobs, in so far as producers need the money upfront to make their projects work. And so customers are at the mercy of disenchanted stamp collectors and the like, heh.

Even in a niche fetish like ours, the love of the genre only gets a producer so far. If not a profit, at least a break-even point needs to be reached to make it worth producers' time. As mentioned above, I'd think that if there is an outside threat specific to SHiP productions, it would come from the comic companies and/or movie producers that deal with the properties that are 'parodied' for our entertainment.

[Dazzle1]

Regarding The Guardian

1. It is anti american, anti capitalism, so blaming America is nothing new for them.

2. Surprising that will all the SJW writing there like Jessica Valenti they have not gone after the adult video industry

3. This is not the first time the Guardian has reported in a favorable or neutral point of view. A few years ago they promoted a protest where woman did face sitting in front of parliment(dressed of course) participants included Chanta Rose

As far as the SJWs, most of the country has had enough of them and are fighting back. The fudamentalists have been fighting adult entertainment for over 200 years and have not stopped it.

[tallyho]

I reckon T3D CRUZ will be on our side.

[Dazzle1]

I reckon T3D CRUZ will be on our side.

Lets hope Anthony Wiener is not.

[tallyho]

I reckon T3D CRUZ will be on our side.

Lets hope Anthony Wiener is not.

You said 'Wiener '

[ywf]

It was a front page magazine article on Superhero porn in Bizarre magazine that got me into this as an adult - that was in every British newsagent in 2010 or there abouts. As HA says its naive to think no one knows we are here.
biz_supsex01.jpg
biz_supsex03.jpg
jerri_byrne_jerri_the_superhero_lTxw8fu_sized.jpg
biz_supsex03-1-1.jpg

I loved Jerri Byrne in that set, felt she really bought into it with her facial expressions

Love the costume!

Yeah, this fetish is relatively well-known compare to others. I remember reading an article regarding superheroine fetish which featured Dano from SHC, the author was a woman too.

[shevek]

It was a front page magazine article on Superhero porn in Bizarre magazine that got me into this as an adult - that was in every British newsagent in 2010 or there abouts. As HA says its naive to think no one knows we are here.
biz_supsex01.jpg
biz_supsex03.jpg
jerri_byrne_jerri_the_superhero_lTxw8fu_sized.jpg
biz_supsex03-1-1.jpg

I loved Jerri Byrne in that set, felt she really bought into it with her facial expressions

Love the costume!

Yeah, this fetish is relatively well-known compare to others. I remember reading an article regarding superheroine fetish which featured Dano from SHC, the author was a woman too.

Do you remember where that article was published, ywf, and whether it's online?

Also..there are some magazines that of course publish very favorable articles on SHIP, such as Kink Queens. But those aren't the ones I'm worried about obviously. I've never seen a cosplay magazine or a cosplay publication cross the line into featuring SHIP even though there are clearly websites
that emphasize such crossovers (like Cosplay Deviants, where Amy Fantasy is prominently featured).

[ywf]

http://www.criticalblast.com/articles/2 ... ero-fetish#.

I believe this is the one I mentioned just now... I can't remember, I read it years ago.

I was wrong, one of the contributors is a woman, not the author.

[viking]

Shavek, you seem a little sensitive to a perceived threat from a single newspaper article. It could be that you are over estimating the power of sjw, antifa, 3rd wave feminests, liberals and other groups with which you have issues.

[shevek]

Viking: There has actually really been *no* definitive newspaper article yet on SHIP. I'm simply anticipating the problem based on the fact that the work of fetish actresses is getting noticed. It may never arise and we certainly hope it doesn't.

But there is no denying that the power of the groups you mentioned is considerable, and all out of proportion to their relatively small numbers. Look at the debacles they have caused in the past three years both in real life and on the Internet. This isn't about nothing. It's a culture war of three extremes against an increasingly besieged middle ground.

Even if for the mainstream average individual in America (who just found out what 'antifa' is a couple weeks ago) there still isn't a lot to think about (their favorite shows are still on TV, their favorite brands are still in the supermarket, and they still drive every day to their office cubicles), doesn't mean there isn't a good bit of conflict around the edges. And the SHIP scene is one of those edges - a small niche that could be affected by some rabble-rousing social crusader.

Let's just hope that never happens:)

[Heroine Addict]

The whole Gamergate shitshow concerned a multi-billion dollar industry. The videos that are promoted on this forum reach an audience of a few hundred or, if they're unusually successful, a few thousand. If someone such as Sarkeesian started complaining about this genre, there would be an initial surge of interest as people start to check out her latest target. As she has no authority to ban anything, the ensuing "gold rush" on SHiP could be counterproductive.

What's much more likely is that the US Department of Justice examination of porn as a "public health issue" will result in SHiP and related genres being deemed "harmful" and prosecuted using existing obscenity laws which haven't been enforced in recent years. Taking down a few "extreme" fringe genres would be a way for the DoJ to be seen to "do something" about porn while leaving 99.9% of the massive adult industry intact.

Bear in mind that the big boys such as Vivid largely regulate themselves on material that could potentially run afoul of obscenity laws. It's more likely to be the clips4sale stores that get targeted, rather than Axel Braun.

Is newspaper coverage going to exacerbate that? Only if there's a concerted campaign of "BAN THIS FILTH" articles in the mainstream media.

[Mr. X]

I'm more worried an incident like what happened in London back in around 2008 would have Visa shut down a bunch of producer accounts. In London there was a copy cat murder in which a young girl was killed the same way from a snuff fantasy website. The murderer was a regular member. So there was public outrage, the focus ended up on Visa and Visa systematically destroyed the service provider who happened to be my service provider Webstream.

And yes my other concern is when SJWs set their sights on this industry "to make it better". So they do entryism and come in and get established then complain about everything and shame and accuse participants of being perverts and sick. Kind of like someone a while back claiming that if a white female porn star doesn't want to do videos with black actors she must be racist. Or a member on the old SHIB forum who claimed we were all sick and perverts and rapists when it turned out he was a producer who made bondage videos of superheroines.

Given most fans of this genre are timid, closet fetish people pretty much anything would spook them back into the closet. In fact I feel this entryism has already happened here and that some people here run rough shot over the rest and that its only a matter of time before they start cranking down, get on some fake moral cause and start group accusing. The torches come out and they burn down another Frankenstien castle.

I think the only saving grace is because these are comic book style characters and the fetish is so dorky that no one would take it seriously. If the same stuff that happens in a lot of videos happened to secretary or cop or school teacher or house wife characters ie real life characters then I think it would be much more of an issue.

[viking]

So you believe that some of the members of this site who disagree with your point of view joined only to secretly try to undermine this genre? You really need to report these subversives to the site moderators.

[Femina]

I think it's like... who cares? This is a fetish, no different from BDSM, foot love, or people who enjoy watching other people poop (Sorry for that image). Fetishes are fetishes. Rare is the person who harps at a fetish because they either A) Already have a fetish of their own they wouldn't want people prodding into so they ignore it B) Figure 'well it's only a fetish' which by nature represents a pretty small portion of the human populace or C) Realize that harping about what turns people on doesn't accomplish anything. It's nothing new, if our fetish was 'hidden' so well that nobody could find it than no one would be here. If it was in danger of being attacked in a serious way, it would have been attacked already. We aren't invisible, we never have been, and its a bigger fetish than people think. You can hardly write 'superheroine' into deviantart and not wind up with a dozen images of tied up or bruised heroines on the front page.

I mean it's always 'possible' that a crusade could be levied, I just don't think its worth worrying about unless it actually happens since there's not really anything the community could do about it as is. You can't ask producers to stop making material they want to sell, you can't ask artists to stop drawing pictures or writing stories they want to draw and tell. It's a moot point.

[Imagineer]

In fact I feel this entryism has already happened here

If that's true, they suck at it.

[Mr. X]

So you believe that some of the members of this site who disagree with your point of view joined only to secretly try to undermine this genre? You really need to report these subversives to the site moderators.

No I did not argue that. It has nothing to do with disagreeing with me.

[tallyho]

Lets not subvert others innocent remarks for our own evil ends. Leave that to the politicians

[Heroine Addict]

In fact I feel this entryism has already happened here

If that's true, they suck at it.

Indeed. I'm not sure how such 'entryism' would even work in a genre which is itself a subversion of the mainstream. The whole point of SHiP is that it sails further into fetishy waters than the mainstream ever could. If these notional 'entryists' were to try to steer our SHiP towards heroines dominating bad guys with little or no serious peril, then it wouldn't be subversive or fethishy anymore.

Besides, that would only work if the 'entryists' were to recruit from elsewhere to a degree where they become the core membership. It just seems extremely unlikely on a fetish forum.

[MightyHypnotic]

And yes my other concern is when SJWs set their sights on this industry "to make it better". So they do entryism and come in and get established then complain about everything and shame and accuse participants of being perverts and sick. Kind of like someone a while back claiming that if a white female porn star doesn't want to do videos with black actors she must be racist. Or a member on the old SHIB forum who claimed we were all sick and perverts and rapists when it turned out he was a producer who made bondage videos of superheroines.

I find there is quite a bit of self-loathing on the producer end of fetish. Not so much in Superheroine Fetish, since we all think we're, ahem, artists (Not a slight on you in any way, Mr. X since you are actually an artist!) but a lot of the crazier fetishes. A lot of producers have a hard time reconciling what they do with against the norm. I've always felt, fuck the norm, this is way more fun.

This kind of thing happens every time there is some kind of stimulus, like the very popular Wonder Woman movie. All of a sudden you've got all these bloggers looking for everything superheroine to write about and one of them decides to "go there" and write about superheroine fetish or porn. Seriously, who are they kidding? They went there years ago but don't want to cop to it. Some of them are most likely lurking these types of forums right now.

As a matter of fact, right after wonder woman was released I was contacted by some girl writing for some online magazine that wanted me to give my thoughts and answer question about Superheroines in Porn. But the questions were so vague and she clearly was looking for some kind of puff piece and not anything real specific, I lost interest.

"why do you think superheroine porn wound up being the most popular?"
" What is it about that genre that so appeals to viewers?"

I told her I didn't think Superheroine porn was the most popular, it was just the flavor of the moment because people wanted something other than I fucked my step-sister but my mom said it was ok and now we all fuck too.

The second question I didn't even have an answer for. The only answer I had was it appeals to people that like to see superheroines having sex. How do you even explain this genre with all its complexities? I have a problem with someone trying to generalize...Maybe I should've just written an essay

[Mr. X]

I find there is quite a bit of self-loathing on the producer end of fetish. Not so much in Superheroine Fetish, since we all think we're, ahem, artists (Not a slight on you in any way, Mr. X since you are actually an artist!) but a lot of the crazier fetishes. A lot of producers have a hard time reconciling what they do with against the norm. I've always felt, fuck the norm, this is way more fun.

I think that's what happens as well. Guilt. Cognitive dissonance. How does one reconcile being a social champion of women while having a secret rape fantasy of powerful women. And these people make me nervous cause like you said all it takes is a stimuli to flip them onto the guilt end from the indulgence end.

As for articles I have been contacted as well and I have turned such things down. How do you explain this to someone. Fetishes are grand example of the old saying that X is a road already traveled. If you have to ask then you can never understand. If you understand you don't have to ask. Fetishes are never rational, they are deep seated triggers I believe are caused when someone gets their first sexual rush and they latch onto that moment. Got sexually excited while being tickled as a kid? BAM you have a tickle fetish.

[Imagineer]

How does one reconcile being a social champion of women while having a secret rape fantasy of powerful women.

The same way one reconciles being a non-sociopath while having any selfish fantasy.

[Heroine Addict]

How does one reconcile being a social champion of women while having a secret rape fantasy of powerful women.

The same way one reconciles being a non-sociopath while having any selfish fantasy.

Absolutely right. I'm pretty sure Bluestone's customers don't have much trouble reconciling being against real life murder while enjoying superheroine garroting videos.

[Femina]

Fetishes are never rational, they are deep seated triggers I believe are caused when someone gets their first sexual rush and they latch onto that moment. Got sexually excited while being tickled as a kid? BAM you have a tickle fetish.

This is really right on the money right here. The things that arouse people aren't things they technically 'chose' because they are usually in essence a sort of stress reaction just incited with a eustress response over one of distress. When your brain is still maturing and coming to awareness, stimuli has more impact on the psyche and creates unconscious triggers in response to a person's experiences in order to formulate a strategy for how to respond to specific circumstances. The crux of this usually is that a person has very little conscious control over what turns them on when the triggers are encountered young... that's not to say we don't find other things that can turn us on later or even 'choose' to stick with something long enough to find it arousing but... that's not generally how fetishes are born. So if the question ever became 'why do you think superheroine porn is so popular right now as a fetish' the only answer I could really poke a guess at would be like... because superheroes were cool when we were kids and they are cool right now... so more people tend to have their sexual awakening with that culture nearby.

[Anonon]

And yes my other concern is when SJWs set their sights on this industry "to make it better".

I've been in various extremely niche areas for decades. There has been no sudden, recent explosion of people with liberal positions on social issues. There HAS been a sudden, recent explosion of people whining about it, however.

[Leadpoison]

I wouldn't sweat it too much since anyone that remotely knows anything about porny superheroines has at least heard of the Axel Brawn series.

[batgirl1969]

How does one reconcile being a social champion of women while having a secret rape fantasy of powerful women.

The same way one reconciles being a non-sociopath while having any selfish fantasy.

So I am a woman with this fantasy....how do I fit in? But I guess since I am a lezdom maybe my brain works like a dude??

And yes my socialization of sexual arousal starterd with costumes and lesbian porn...adventures of O-girl and batgirl on the pattern cutter was my first experience....then the hogtie experience dressed as batgirl and that did it to me....so there is hope!!

[Dogfish]

The people to watch out for in this whole debate are what's called SWERF, Sex Worker Exclusionary Radical Feminists. They're ideologically pretty close to TERFs (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminists). SWERFs are anti-sex work and anti-porn. You won't find too many SWERF folks being welcomed among most social justice groups for the simple reason that folks interested in social justice tend to be cool with people doing whatever they want to do as long as all parties are consenting and fairly remunerated.

There are a lot of SWERFs out there and a lot of them are well established in the British press. I'm not sure on the exact wave of feminism it stems from, but there will always a platform for SWERFs at the Guardian and others. However it does seem to be very much the passing trend and the more current thinkers for the most part seem to be erring on the side of, as I mentioned above, people doing what they want. With the age of social media too a lot of women who work in the sex industry in various capacities are finding their voices and demolishing the stereotypes around the industry.

In short, I think the horse already bolted on the anti-porn front, and we're all riding that horse wherever it goes and it's a great time had by all. Porn became completely ubiquitous when nobody was paying attention and arguing about whether it's a good or bad thing, at this point in proceedings, is like asking if we should do away with sliced bread. People will continue to oppress sex workers and porn producers (and they are oppressed, genuinely, there's still stigmas attached to what they do, and victimisation from the financial sector makes them vulnerable to all sorts of third party bullshitters, via payment companies and so on) but I suspect the overall view on the ethics of what they do might be changing.

On the subject of this fetish though, I think it's completely safe for the simple reason that slashfic and fanfic is -huge-, and is very much a strand of what folks are all about here. And slashfic is viewed as very much being produced by and catering for women. So really the fetish for taking existing characters and producing content of them involved in sexytimes is pretty ubiquitous and there's never going to be a substantial swell of people actively opposed to it, and certainly not with the clout to actually get anything done.

[Mr. X]

True, there is a lot of murder porn out there.

[Darkdestroyer17]

The funny thing is. SJW thought process will at once condemn us for fantasy while giving full acceptance to peoples sexual orientation, identity etc.

Everyone on this planet has fantasies. Lots of women seem to have "rape" like fantasies as well. I wouldn't be worried (at least for now ). How ever if this PC train (i dont mean personal computer) continues and we condemn and label people for something they said that might have been offensive to someone to the point where there are petitions and outcry for someone to lose employment, then yea perhaps one day all porn will be considered "sexist and misogynistic" (and yes i know that was not only a run on sentence but also an abomination of grammar. I have a midterms today and i am tired to go back and edit).

I literally am afraid to talk to girls at my school because ive had friends be called sexist for complimenting the fact that they were in good shape. He wasn't even interested in her he was honestly just wanting to give her compliment for keeping in shape.

Honestly the fall of logic in this world is scaring me. The funny thing is that line of thinking is meant to be liberal but theyre actually more like conservatives. Liberals are supposed to support fetish and sexual freedom. I am going to stop here before i start becoming incoherent.

Wish me luck on my midterms.

[Dogfish]

The funny thing is. SJW thought process will at once condemn us for fantasy while giving full acceptance to peoples sexual orientation, identity etc.

Everyone on this planet has fantasies. Lots of women seem to have "rape" like fantasies as well. I wouldn't be worried (at least for now ). How ever if this PC train (i dont mean personal computer) continues and we condemn and label people for something they said that might have been offensive to someone to the point where there are petitions and outcry for someone to lose employment, then yea perhaps one day all porn will be considered "sexist and misogynistic" (and yes i know that was not only a run on sentence but also an abomination of grammar. I have a midterms today and i am tired to go back and edit).

I literally am afraid to talk to girls at my school because ive had friends be called sexist for complimenting the fact that they were in good shape. He wasn't even interested in her he was honestly just wanting to give her compliment for keeping in shape.

Honestly the fall of logic in this world is scaring me. The funny thing is that line of thinking is meant to be liberal but theyre actually more like conservatives. Liberals are supposed to support fetish and sexual freedom. I am going to stop here before i start becoming incoherent.

Wish me luck on my midterms.

Good luck on your midterms.

And no, the SJW thought process won't condemn you for your fantasy. Shit I'm a pretty big SJW and here I am. We put our pants on one leg at a time, same as you, sometimes we get boners for weird shit, same as you. So, y'know, whatever.

Some people do consider all porn to be sexist and misogynist, and on the opposite side of the spectrum some consider it to be unholy or degenerate. You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass. Worth noting that the reason you can't pay for porn without going through a third party billing company that takes a giant slice out of the profits is because of conservatives and religious types. The financial sector is totally happy to launder money for drug cartels, but if you want to pay a model for a custom movie you sure as shit better not try to use Paypal. And woe betide anybody who tries to show a boob on Patreon now.

Also you shouldn't pay girls you don't know compliments about something like fitness just at random. Even if you say the nicest thing to a woman, you don't know what's been said before. You don't know if you're the first guy to say something on any given day or the tenth. You don't know if some creep was leering out of a car at her on the way to school, you don't know if she got catcalled by a bunch of builders, you don't know anything. So it's best to keep it quiet.

[batgirl1969]

I am a girl....and even when I give other girls complimemts it sometimes creeps them out...lol...trust me its not just you guys who get the SJW treatment...you would think being a Bi-Lesbian would make you a rock star on campus..but nah....anyway I am usually just Meh when they don't acknowledge it.

[Darkdestroyer17]

The funny thing is. SJW thought process will at once condemn us for fantasy while giving full acceptance to peoples sexual orientation, identity etc.

Everyone on this planet has fantasies. Lots of women seem to have "rape" like fantasies as well. I wouldn't be worried (at least for now ). How ever if this PC train (i dont mean personal computer) continues and we condemn and label people for something they said that might have been offensive to someone to the point where there are petitions and outcry for someone to lose employment, then yea perhaps one day all porn will be considered "sexist and misogynistic" (and yes i know that was not only a run on sentence but also an abomination of grammar. I have a midterms today and i am tired to go back and edit).

I literally am afraid to talk to girls at my school because ive had friends be called sexist for complimenting the fact that they were in good shape. He wasn't even interested in her he was honestly just wanting to give her compliment for keeping in shape.

Honestly the fall of logic in this world is scaring me. The funny thing is that line of thinking is meant to be liberal but theyre actually more like conservatives. Liberals are supposed to support fetish and sexual freedom. I am going to stop here before i start becoming incoherent.

Wish me luck on my midterms.

Good luck on your midterms.

And no, the SJW thought process won't condemn you for your fantasy. Shit I'm a pretty big SJW and here I am. We put our pants on one leg at a time, same as you, sometimes we get boners for weird shit, same as you. So, y'know, whatever.

Some people do consider all porn to be sexist and misogynist, and on the opposite side of the spectrum some consider it to be unholy or degenerate. You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass. Worth noting that the reason you can't pay for porn without going through a third party billing company that takes a giant slice out of the profits is because of conservatives and religious types. The financial sector is totally happy to launder money for drug cartels, but if you want to pay a model for a custom movie you sure as shit better not try to use Paypal. And woe betide anybody who tries to show a boob on Patreon now.

Also you shouldn't pay girls you don't know compliments about something like fitness just at random. Even if you say the nicest thing to a woman, you don't know what's been said before. You don't know if you're the first guy to say something on any given day or the tenth. You don't know if some creep was leering out of a car at her on the way to school, you don't know if she got catcalled by a bunch of builders, you don't know anything. So it's best to keep it quiet.

Thank you my midterm went well.

I appreciate you giving me your perspective on this. The issue is the girl in question had spoken with my friend on a couple of occasions. I just don't know because i have seen women around campus talk about guys bodies all the time but i have seen men called perverts for talking about women's bodies, not to women, but amongst each other. A girl in passing felt the need to stop and scold them.

Its not that we only see women for their bodies but if we dont know them, we are wired biologically to first recognize physical features.

Each time i hear that something like that happens i either A) Feel guilty for being male

B) The idea of approaching a girl i like goes from just being nerve racking to a roll of the dice because if one decides something i said was offensive or off putting (not taking into account that although we hide it most guys are nervous) then i put reputation at risk.

C) anger because although there are bad men out there why should or my friend be punished for the action of others. So many of them paint all men with a giant brush.

D) My already low self esteem drops even further



"You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass" Thats the problem. All it will take is for someone to decide to be outraged about something and the precedent set is to destroy their lively hoods or in our case, define us by our fetish and probably campaign for it to be taken away. Try telling an Sjw feminist (It's unfortunate that Feminist has a bad connotation now because the actual idea behind it is a very important one.) that you like to watch wonder woman getting tied up and fucked against her will and convince them not to define you as a misogynistic rape supporter.

[Dogfish]

The funny thing is. SJW thought process will at once condemn us for fantasy while giving full acceptance to peoples sexual orientation, identity etc.

Everyone on this planet has fantasies. Lots of women seem to have "rape" like fantasies as well. I wouldn't be worried (at least for now ). How ever if this PC train (i dont mean personal computer) continues and we condemn and label people for something they said that might have been offensive to someone to the point where there are petitions and outcry for someone to lose employment, then yea perhaps one day all porn will be considered "sexist and misogynistic" (and yes i know that was not only a run on sentence but also an abomination of grammar. I have a midterms today and i am tired to go back and edit).

I literally am afraid to talk to girls at my school because ive had friends be called sexist for complimenting the fact that they were in good shape. He wasn't even interested in her he was honestly just wanting to give her compliment for keeping in shape.

Honestly the fall of logic in this world is scaring me. The funny thing is that line of thinking is meant to be liberal but theyre actually more like conservatives. Liberals are supposed to support fetish and sexual freedom. I am going to stop here before i start becoming incoherent.

Wish me luck on my midterms.

Good luck on your midterms.

And no, the SJW thought process won't condemn you for your fantasy. Shit I'm a pretty big SJW and here I am. We put our pants on one leg at a time, same as you, sometimes we get boners for weird shit, same as you. So, y'know, whatever.

Some people do consider all porn to be sexist and misogynist, and on the opposite side of the spectrum some consider it to be unholy or degenerate. You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass. Worth noting that the reason you can't pay for porn without going through a third party billing company that takes a giant slice out of the profits is because of conservatives and religious types. The financial sector is totally happy to launder money for drug cartels, but if you want to pay a model for a custom movie you sure as shit better not try to use Paypal. And woe betide anybody who tries to show a boob on Patreon now.

Also you shouldn't pay girls you don't know compliments about something like fitness just at random. Even if you say the nicest thing to a woman, you don't know what's been said before. You don't know if you're the first guy to say something on any given day or the tenth. You don't know if some creep was leering out of a car at her on the way to school, you don't know if she got catcalled by a bunch of builders, you don't know anything. So it's best to keep it quiet.

Thank you my midterm went well.

I appreciate you giving me your perspective on this. The issue is the girl in question had spoken with my friend on a couple of occasions. I just don't know because i have seen women around campus talk about guys bodies all the time but i have seen men called perverts for talking about women's bodies, not to women, but amongst each other. A girl in passing felt the need to stop and scold them.

Its not that we only see women for their bodies but if we dont know them, we are wired biologically to first recognize physical features.

Each time i hear that something like that happens i either A) Feel guilty for being male

B) The idea of approaching a girl i like goes from just being nerve racking to a roll of the dice because if one decides something i said was offensive or off putting (not taking into account that although we hide it most guys are nervous) then i put reputation at risk.

C) anger because although there are bad men out there why should or my friend be punished for the action of others. So many of them paint all men with a giant brush.

D) My already low self esteem drops even further



"You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass" Thats the problem. All it will take is for someone to decide to be outraged about something and the precedent set is to destroy their lively hoods or in our case, define us by our fetish and probably campaign for it to be taken away. Try telling an Sjw feminist (It's unfortunate that Feminist has a bad connotation now because the actual idea behind it is a very important one.) that you like to watch wonder woman getting tied up and fucked against her will and convince them not to define you as a misogynistic rape supporter.

Talking about women in a way that, were a woman to hear it, might be considered objectionable, that's what used to be called locker room talk (before Trump ruined the term). In other words keep it to places where there's no women to hear it. And sure, women do it about men all the time, and it's a double standard not to call them out on it, and you can call them out on it if you want to, but it doesn't carry the same threat as when men do it. I've heard from several women that men will talk to each other about them, or about other women, in earshot, as a form of intimidation. And I mean, who even does that? I don't know, but I trust that it happens because if women had their shit together well enough to concoct a universal lie that consistent they'd have got their way on abortion laws years ago.

As to the other stuff. Here's some entirely free advice just cos. Firstly (cos it didn't have a letter on it) don't worry about what you're told you've been 'wired to do'. You're not an amoeba. You're a human being, a bona fide miracle of nature. You don't have to act like baboon. I mean, you can, it's Halloween, best time for it, but it's your responsibility. Anywho...

A) If you don't want to feel guilty do nice things. Even if you haven't done anything wrong to feel guilty about. Doesn't cost anything, makes the world a better place, helps you keep your head right.

B) Dating app. Or any other sort of dating website really. So much less painful. And yeah, your reputation will take a hit if you mess up. Don't mess up. Basically don't do anything you saw in a movie or a 90s sitcom. Turns out you don't want to do the things that people who make movies do.

C) Yeah that sucks. It sucks that men are so dangerous that women have taken to seeing us all as a threat. Not much you can do about it though except be a better man and hope things change.

D) Self esteem is like, if you look for it you won't find it. If you forget about it and handle your business you'll find you pick up a load along the way.

Holy shit I think I overdosed on fortune cookies or something.

[Mr. X]

C) Yeah that sucks. It sucks that men are so dangerous that women have taken to seeing us all as a threat. Not much you can do about it though except be a better man and hope things change.

This one I object to. If I practice progressivism then one of the tenants is you don't judge a group and most certainly not by edge cases. We don't judge blacks as "more dangerous", that would be racist. Women commit most of the child murders and child abuse but we hardly think women as a dangerous group for children. No group can be judged, just the individual. If there is group judgement then it has to apply to all or to none. No selectivism.

And its not the power to act... its IF you act cause we all have power to act.

Men should not be judged enmasse, no group should.

[Dogfish]

C) Yeah that sucks. It sucks that men are so dangerous that women have taken to seeing us all as a threat. Not much you can do about it though except be a better man and hope things change.

This one I object to. If I practice progressivism then one of the tenants is you don't judge a group and most certainly not by edge cases. We don't judge blacks as "more dangerous", that would be racist. Women commit most of the child murders and child abuse but we hardly think women as a dangerous group for children. No group can be judged, just the individual. If there is group judgement then it has to apply to all or to none. No selectivism.

And its not the power to act... its IF you act cause we all have power to act.

Men should not be judged enmasse, no group should.

Yeah but if a woman doesn't act is if men are a threat and something happens to her, she gets blamed.

[Darkdestroyer17]

The funny thing is. SJW thought process will at once condemn us for fantasy while giving full acceptance to peoples sexual orientation, identity etc.

Everyone on this planet has fantasies. Lots of women seem to have "rape" like fantasies as well. I wouldn't be worried (at least for now ). How ever if this PC train (i dont mean personal computer) continues and we condemn and label people for something they said that might have been offensive to someone to the point where there are petitions and outcry for someone to lose employment, then yea perhaps one day all porn will be considered "sexist and misogynistic" (and yes i know that was not only a run on sentence but also an abomination of grammar. I have a midterms today and i am tired to go back and edit).

I literally am afraid to talk to girls at my school because ive had friends be called sexist for complimenting the fact that they were in good shape. He wasn't even interested in her he was honestly just wanting to give her compliment for keeping in shape.

Honestly the fall of logic in this world is scaring me. The funny thing is that line of thinking is meant to be liberal but theyre actually more like conservatives. Liberals are supposed to support fetish and sexual freedom. I am going to stop here before i start becoming incoherent.

Wish me luck on my midterms.

Good luck on your midterms.

And no, the SJW thought process won't condemn you for your fantasy. Shit I'm a pretty big SJW and here I am. We put our pants on one leg at a time, same as you, sometimes we get boners for weird shit, same as you. So, y'know, whatever.

Some people do consider all porn to be sexist and misogynist, and on the opposite side of the spectrum some consider it to be unholy or degenerate. You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass. Worth noting that the reason you can't pay for porn without going through a third party billing company that takes a giant slice out of the profits is because of conservatives and religious types. The financial sector is totally happy to launder money for drug cartels, but if you want to pay a model for a custom movie you sure as shit better not try to use Paypal. And woe betide anybody who tries to show a boob on Patreon now.

Also you shouldn't pay girls you don't know compliments about something like fitness just at random. Even if you say the nicest thing to a woman, you don't know what's been said before. You don't know if you're the first guy to say something on any given day or the tenth. You don't know if some creep was leering out of a car at her on the way to school, you don't know if she got catcalled by a bunch of builders, you don't know anything. So it's best to keep it quiet.

Thank you my midterm went well.

I appreciate you giving me your perspective on this. The issue is the girl in question had spoken with my friend on a couple of occasions. I just don't know because i have seen women around campus talk about guys bodies all the time but i have seen men called perverts for talking about women's bodies, not to women, but amongst each other. A girl in passing felt the need to stop and scold them.

Its not that we only see women for their bodies but if we dont know them, we are wired biologically to first recognize physical features.

Each time i hear that something like that happens i either A) Feel guilty for being male

B) The idea of approaching a girl i like goes from just being nerve racking to a roll of the dice because if one decides something i said was offensive or off putting (not taking into account that although we hide it most guys are nervous) then i put reputation at risk.

C) anger because although there are bad men out there why should or my friend be punished for the action of others. So many of them paint all men with a giant brush.

D) My already low self esteem drops even further



"You can find moral outrage in every direction on the political compass" Thats the problem. All it will take is for someone to decide to be outraged about something and the precedent set is to destroy their lively hoods or in our case, define us by our fetish and probably campaign for it to be taken away. Try telling an Sjw feminist (It's unfortunate that Feminist has a bad connotation now because the actual idea behind it is a very important one.) that you like to watch wonder woman getting tied up and fucked against her will and convince them not to define you as a misogynistic rape supporter.

Talking about women in a way that, were a woman to hear it, might be considered objectionable, that's what used to be called locker room talk (before Trump ruined the term). In other words keep it to places where there's no women to hear it. And sure, women do it about men all the time, and it's a double standard not to call them out on it, and you can call them out on it if you want to, but it doesn't carry the same threat as when men do it. I've heard from several women that men will talk to each other about them, or about other women, in earshot, as a form of intimidation. And I mean, who even does that? I don't know, but I trust that it happens because if women had their shit together well enough to concoct a universal lie that consistent they'd have got their way on abortion laws years ago.

As to the other stuff. Here's some entirely free advice just cos. Firstly (cos it didn't have a letter on it) don't worry about what you're told you've been 'wired to do'. You're not an amoeba. You're a human being, a bona fide miracle of nature. You don't have to act like baboon. I mean, you can, it's Halloween, best time for it, but it's your responsibility. Anywho...

A) If you don't want to feel guilty do nice things. Even if you haven't done anything wrong to feel guilty about. Doesn't cost anything, makes the world a better place, helps you keep your head right.

B) Dating app. Or any other sort of dating website really. So much less painful. And yeah, your reputation will take a hit if you mess up. Don't mess up. Basically don't do anything you saw in a movie or a 90s sitcom. Turns out you don't want to do the things that people who make movies do.

C) Yeah that sucks. It sucks that men are so dangerous that women have taken to seeing us all as a threat. Not much you can do about it though except be a better man and hope things change.

D) Self esteem is like, if you look for it you won't find it. If you forget about it and handle your business you'll find you pick up a load along the way.

Holy shit I think I overdosed on fortune cookies or something.

Appreciate the advice. I can agree with most of what you said but alot of it i do anyway. Im respectful to everyone. I know im not a single cell organism (at least last time i checked) . The issue arises when i am scared to even admire a woman's body from afar. Also I agree with Mr.X labeling an entire gender as "Dangerous". Women are dangerous too just in different ways. The point is humans are humans despite gender. The whole gender equality thing seems to have evolved into ideology that is more divisive than inclusive.

Look at this tweet by Ellen:



If she were male she would be eaten alive and petitions would be made for her to lose her employment. This would be called sexual harassment. People should be free to express themselves. Of course, rule number 1 is look but don't touch and consent is absolutely necessary at all times in all situations.