The Orville Season 2 Premiere = December 30 2018

[theScribbler]

Tomorrow, Sunday, after FOX NFL football...

[shevek]

Belongs in General TV, but yes I'm excited. Thanks for the reminder!

[Visitor]

I guess this could have been a good episode if they had skipped the toilet humor.

[Femina]

It was pretty meh, but not 'ughhh!' I still expect there to be episodes going forward that are very 'trek'ish and thought provoking.

I'm still gay for Alara.

[theScribbler]

Belongs in General TV, but yes I'm excited. Thanks for the reminder!

Maybe. Although I decided Alara's super strength qualifies as, you know, Super. As shown in about 30 sec worth of this video..



Anyway...episode 2, on FOX thursday night, looks to be more 'trek'ish.

[Visitor]

The main storyline was on porn and the dangers of getting it from possibly illegal sources because it can upload a virus on your computer system.Somethings never change in the future. Really relevant to this community.

This was one of the better shows since the series started last year. It started off kind of stupid, but picked up halfway through as it finally started explaining the reasons why Bortus was acting that way.

[shevek]

Really had a warm fuzzy feeling watching Episode 1 as it brought back the nostalgic days of watching TNG for the first time in the 80s.
And I don't mean the sensation of warm pee running down your leg

The porn theme for Episode 2 was both funny and relevant as mentioned above.
Want to see more of Alara - she's cute. And the beautiful Kelly and her almost-too-perfect boyfriend.
I would love to see a third beautiful female regular on the show too, maybe of another ethnic background or extraterrestrial origin.
(The doctor is a bit Beverly Crusher-esque).

But one thing bothered me about the EP2 ending - it was too tidily wrapped up. Sure, Bortus risked his life saving 35 people, but 1) he endangered something like 300 people on the ship in the process (with his porn virus) and 2) he still had to abandon the other 40 people on the planet to their doom, partially because they ran out of time dealing with the mess he created. Bortus should have gotten at least on serious probation - demoted to janitor or something, or maybe tasked with a humorous responsbility that dogs him for the rest of the season - instead of getting off literally scot free.

[shevek]

Wow, they are really knocking off characters.

Spoiler

In Episode 3, they get rid of Alara who goes back to her home planet, and in Episode 4 they get rid of Ed's new hot love interest Janelle who turns out to be much more than she seems.

I like the mix of character studies, romantic plots and action this series delivers.
There's nothing too complicated or overblown, and the special effects are generally very much in service of the story rather than the flashiness we've seen in Star Trek Discovery. The Krill look like a cross between the Jem Hadar and the Klingons. In general, the approach is simple and straightforward, a vibe that's straight out of the TNG and DS9 playbook.

For those who are interested, there are a few moments of "heroine peril" in Episode 4 when Janelle gets tortured on the Krill ship, although this turns out to be a deception. Episode 4 also reminds me a bit of the subject matter addressed by the movie "Enemy Mine", if anyone remembers that.

Meanwhile in Episode 3, we see some confident "girl power" action by the competent heroine, Alara. Recommend both episodes!

[Femina]

She's probably gone for good. It's honestly a preeeeetty huge bummer. Alara was my fave side character, and its only season 2 for crying out loud this sort of thing shouldn't be happening (Though I suppose its not out of Star Trek purview to dump their first security chief after the first season)

[shevek]

She's probably gone for good. It's honestly a preeeeetty huge bummer. Alara was my fave side character, and its only season 2 for crying out loud this sort of thing shouldn't be happening (Though I suppose its not out of Star Trek purview to dump their first security chief after the first season)

From comicbook.com:

"There have been rumors about Sage's departure for months as she was noted to be working on other projects while The Orville’s second season was still in production. The Orville also added Jessica Szohr as a new series regular in Season 2. Szohr's character, Talla, still hasn’t made her first appearance, but photos from The Orville’s set suggest that Talla is a Xelayan security officer, just like Alara. This has led to speculation Szhor’s character is meant to replace Alara."

Though none are directly mentioned as the cause, speculative reasons abound as to Sage's departure..ranging from her getting other work (she was filming a movie called The Last Summer while Orville Season 2 was in production) to a relationship with MacFarlane which may have ended, making things awkward. Her appearance as Alara was quite interesting, as it actually de-emphasized her beautiful visage (except for the lips) for alien effect - in reality, she has much of the same gorgeous presence as Jeri Ryan (Seven of Nine), who was *not* made to look more Borg-like for obvious reasons.

And the super-strength she had seemed like a statement on the part of MacFarlane cooked up from a brainstorming session on how to mess with the 'NPCs': "Well, now that we have a promo with a metaphorical quip about the universe's 'cultural diversity' to make the Twitter brigade happy, we need a strong female character to keep them permanently at bay." "Well...why not just make the character SUPER-strong? They'd eat it up, and that'd solve it." "OK! Done and done."

Anyway, if her replacement is yet another alien from the same planet, then we know it's the character's archetype (see above) that is important to the show, and not the actress per se. Which is fine. Perhaps 'Talla' will be a less subtler reference to Tasha Yar from TNG. Everyone seems to forget Tasha when they make a list to prove that strong 'bad-ass' female characters were already established and popular in the 80s (Ripley & Connor, etc.).

Plus here's a final note about the future of Halston Sage: back in 2017 there was a small speculative frenzy about Halston Sage possibly playing Dazzler in X-Men: Dark Phoenix which was supposed to come out in November but was pushed back until mid-2019. See the article below. Unfortunately there's no positive indication anymore that this is actually happening - the photos seem to indicate that she was filming with the cast but neither the film's Wiki nor her own mentions her now as a cast member, so maybe her part was cut? Guess we'll see. At least we know that Olivia Munn will return for another go in that tight Psylocke costume, however brief it may be.

https://boundingintocomics.com/2017/08/ ... k-phoenix/

[Femina]

Honestly? That's not super cool with me. If its the archtype and not the character that's a bad signal to want to be sending. I liked Alara, not that she was a specific species from a specific planet... the attributes that she was super strong and such were bonuses and an archtype to (in my oppinion) subvert whenever possible (I.E. she was physically strong but had issues making lasting emotional bonds both because others were a little intimidated AND because she was perhaps not emotionally mature yet?)

Just slapping a new character in her place of the same race with the same attributes and going 'look see... its the same!' Isn't actually a good solution is it? I'm not saying I may not eventually like the new girl or something, but now comes the question of just how invested should I even attempt to be in this character or that character if they might just be swapped out for a carbon copy that will inevitably have to live in its predecessors shadow.

[Visitor]

After spending so much time on character development with Alara last season, making her position a generic alien is a waste. She was driven to succeed in space, because at home she was at the bottom with her abilities. That pretty much says anyone else from her home world will be an improvement.

[shevek]

Agreed, but as I said above, it looks like the situation with Halston just couldn't be helped. Do you think it would have been better if they had found an actress that could have approximated the Alara character and continued on with her story? Rather than introducing this new Talla.
Guess we'll see how Jessica Szohr does.

I am glad that Ed's female Krill adversary got away. I think there's a good chance she'll back to cause more trouble.

[Visitor]

Halston Sage appeared as a guest star on tonight's episode of Magnum P. I. (season 1 episode 12) as an apprentice/protege of Luther Gillis.

[Femina]

Agreed, but as I said above, it looks like the situation with Halston just couldn't be helped. Do you think it would have been better if they had found an actress that could have approximated the Alara character and continued on with her story? Rather than introducing this new Talla.
Guess we'll see how Jessica Szohr does.

I am glad that Ed's female Krill adversary got away. I think there's a good chance she'll back to cause more trouble.

As far as I'm concerned the situation could have been helped at one stage or another and the parties responsible failed. Orville is on notice for me now. I spot much more crap like this and I walk. Patrick Stewart has got a Star Trek Show incoming, I can wait for that.

[DrDominator9]

I'm flat out simply going to miss Alara going forward. The character was nicely built up as genuine, including how she showed nervousness about her command abilities and her problems getting close to people, many of whom were intimidated by her strength. The actress did a great job with her and frankly nobody could want a better send off show than the one she got. I thought it was heartwarming and moving. One of the show's best in both seasons, IMHO.

As for Patrick Warburton's "elephantine" character, he's obviously there for comic relief to start with. Let's see what they do with him beyond that.

[shevek]

Season 2 Episode 6 had me floored. There was no action. In fact, there was almost nothing in it other than one storyline - the romance of Doctor Claire
and the robot Isaac. Yet it brought out a lot of feelings - probably unavoidable for almost anyone watching it. This probably explains why even The Mary Sue just endorsed the show, despite previously championing Star Trek Discovery and lambasting Seth MacFarlane. The progressives at that website probably love the idea of a 'soyboy' robot who uses computer logic to compute the precise failings of toxic masculinity and then rewrites his internal programming to become the perfect boyfriend. Good premise, though.

https://www.themarysue.com/liking-the-orville/

[shevek]

The Orville is hitting it out of the park! It seems like every episode, though encased in a shell of hard science-fiction, is really about deep feelings and relationships. In Season 2 Episode 7 we again revisit the rigidity and intolerance of Moclan culture, and using the new character Talla (who really seems like a homage to Tasha Yar) MacFarlane demonstrates the folly of bigotry based on identity with the kind of out-of-the-box storyline that party-line progressives could not have conceived.

The prejudice against Lokar not only represents the myopia of homophobia (which is how progressives would always read it - they would always claim that MacFarlane flipped the sexes to be 'edgelordy') but also lays bare the fallacy of the condemnation of alpha masculinity. Lokar pursued a woman aggressively (but still politely) and was punished for it. Klyden acted like a tattling, fascist behavior policeman (which is what some people unfortunately love to do on Twitter and other accusatory parts of the Internet) and was roundly drubbed for it by Talla, who is surprisingly freethinking for being a security officer. Perhaps that is a positive cultural aspect of Xelayans.

And we see such criticism TWICE in the episode. MacFarlane not mines the repression of the Moclans, but also the wishy-washy attitude of the teacher, Cassius. You don't send a commanding woman like Kelly flowers and candy and texts like a desperate creepazoid, because she doesn't respect beta-maleness. You sweep him into your arms and tell her what she means to you. But he didn't do that. Instead of staying on the Orville to fight for his opportunity to get back with Kelly, he takes the easy way out, requesting for a transfer offship. I'm sad to see him go because we kind of know that Kelly and Ed might get back together, but it's too early in the season to eliminate the triangle that creates the sexual tension in the Ed-Kelly dynamic.

This leads me to wonder if they've almost used up every possible pairing. Will Ed once again find a woman who will reinstate the triangle, or will Kelly find a man? Or, in a situation where the most stable relationship on the ship is between Claire and a robot (will we be driven entirely in a different direction, who's left? Will we somehow see a plot involving Malloy and/or LaMarr, given that their characters up until now have mainly been diversionary humor and not really explored in depth?

It will be interesting to see which way the winds blow on a series that almost seems like it wants to be The Young and the Restless in space.

[Bert]

Do you ever stop? It's like every single thing that enters your consciousness is first warped through some funhouse mirror into another raging example of progressive idiocy.

"MacFarlane demonstrates the folly of bigotry based on identity with the kind of out-of-the-box storyline that party-line progressives could not have conceived."

McFarlane IS a progressive. He supports the Democratic Party. He despises Donald Trump. He's strongly pro minority rights. He's an atheist. As for this episode of The Orville, it was probably the best of the season so far, but it was hardly "out of the box" storytelling. If anything it was an homage to Roddenberry's original Star Trek storytelling, which did push boundaries a little - 50 years ago. In 2019, using an alien race as a stand in for sexual orientation bigotry is pretty far inside the box. And then, one word later, a ridiculous, baseless accusation that "party-line progressives" couldn't have conceived the story? That's just pure, unadulterated bullshit. As I already stated, McFarlane is a progressive. There's nothing about this episode that does anything except point out the ugliness of judging people for being harmlessly different.

"The prejudice against Lokar not only represents the myopia of homophobia (which is how progressives would always read it - they would always claim that MacFarlane flipped the sexes to be 'edgelordy') but also lays bare the fallacy of the condemnation of alpha masculinity. Lokar pursued a woman aggressively (but still politely) and was punished for it. Klyden acted like a tattling, fascist behavior policeman (which is what some people unfortunately love to do on Twitter and other accusatory parts of the Internet)"

To quote Sarah Marshall, "Booolshit, booolshit, booolshit." The dig at progressives here is utterly nonsensical. And the fallacy of the condemnation of alpha masculinity? Jesus Christ, where do you get this shit? None of that is there. Your funhouse mirror invented the whole thing. He didn't pursue her aggressively, he told her he was interested in her. He did it in her quarters because it was a massive cultural taboo to pursue a female publicly. (It amuses me that Moclans would lose their shit over interest in a 'female", while not seeming to bat an eye at the whole alien race angle of the pairing) After admitting his attraction he immediately backed off, essentially abandoning the relationship. It was Talla who moved things forward. And he wasn't punished for his aggressive pursuit, which never even happened, he was punished because he pursued a female. And Klyden threatening to rat him out was pure Republican religious right puritanism - everyone should behave the way we say, because THE BIBLE.

It is so incredibly tiring to see these unhinged rants against nonexistent "progressives are ruining everything" stories. The hell of it is that by crying wolf so often where it is totally unwarranted, you kill your credibility. Then, when a genuine example of SJWness (I really hate that term, but it is a convenient shorthand for a real issue) comes along, people are more likely to ignore your inevitable novella on the topic because it's just more of shevek's ranting.

[shevek]

First of all, "genuine examples of SJWness" (I tend not to use that term, I prefer "far leftism") come along constantly, at the rate of almost one example per day at this point. I don't point them all out because that would be exhausting. The Youtube channels already do that for me. And if you don't believe that frequency of occurrence actually happens: within one day of posting my support of the Captain Marvel Pittsburgh GoFundMe Challenge on Twitter, my post was retweeted by an account called "SJW James Bond Wants All Nazis Banned" which does a lot of Captain Marvel defense (in the tradition of the legendary anonymous Twitter account "SJW Spiderman").

I would like to point out - once again, because this is not the first time I've done so - that when you are describing Seth MacFarlane's views you are very close to describing MYSELF. I vote Democratic. I've actively participated in several street campaigns for Democratic candidates. I'm pro-minority equal rights (same-sex marriage and so on). I'm an atheist. I'm hardcore pro-choice. I hold a fair amount of what would be considered "progressive" (although not far-leftist) views. And yet I don't truck with the "social justice outrage" mobs which reek of the kind of repression and intolerance they claim to condemn. From the way MacFarlane is writing The Orville, I don't think he does, either.

I would suggest before you go on another "anti-rant" that you look at Seth MacFarlane's career and how much he's been hated by the politically-correct elements of the Hollywood mainstream. Here's a good article about it in the historically progressive Rolling Stone: https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/mov ... ine-60469/

This quote sums it up regarding the typical stance that progressive media shills take on Seth's work:
"MacFarlane would seem to identify as progressive, but he uses his liberalness conservatively, to berate what he thinks is normal or safe or established in American culture. His tolerance is tinged with intolerance.”
It's as true today as when that article was written in 2015.

The hatred by strident progressives for successful projects of his like Family Guy and the Ted movies is so intense that these folks were all rooting for The Orville to fail or to be terrible, and they were heavily going to bat for Star Trek Discovery. After all, why do we need an imitative series that longs for the nostalgia throwback to the days of ST:TNG, when we have a rebooted "woke" version of Star Trek to support? Turned out that for many reasons (some purely logistical) Discovery is tanking while The Orville is taking off. Imagine these folks stewing in their own juices over that.

Let's get back to your analysis of the episode and why I think there's plenty of room for my interpretation. Yes, using an alien race as a representation for a situation of racial bigotry is well inside the box, and has been since the 1980s. I never said it wasn't. You don't have to look farther than Alien Nation or District 9. But that's not what I was saying. I was saying that the *specific idea* of the episode is something that hardline progressives wouldn't touch. They wouldn't create an entire alien race of gay males, and then use that race's prejudice against heterosexuality as the focal point. Why? Because depicting gays as intolerant would be homophobic, and you should never do that, because LGBTs are on the progressive stack of oppression.
(I've never heard of another example of this storyline - have you? The only thing that might come close is some of the episodes of Black Mirror).

MacFarlane, however, has no problem doing this, because his irreverence allows him to skewer all comers, as he has done in Family Guy. Except instead of infantile jokes about foreigners and farts, he's using The Orville to introduce *over-arching concepts*, the kind that Star Trek Discovery would never even think of. And that's what I meant. Remember: which group is the ONLY ONE that harbors marked distaste for the institution of white-straight-cis-male-ism? Only the far left does that. MacFarlane created a society that has the same prejudice that the far left does, and then skewers it.

As far as Lokar not being aggressive, I think you are forgetting that he makes the first physical move by sweeping Talla down and planting a strong kiss on her mouth. That's classic romantic musical stuff from the 1940s, which is EXACTLY why Seth used the 1945 setting in the Holosuite to stage this scene. A beta male would ask permission for the kiss, because consent. But this is alpha masculinity peeking through Lokar's facade, revealing what he has kept repressed for his entire life on Moclus. (And regarding Moclans' regard for alien species, we've already established that they have no xenophobia because they work quite readily within the Planetary Union).

This is why I don't think the interpretation of Moclan society is as one-sided as you portray it to be. It is not just a one-for-one correlation with some kind of far-right Republican fundamentalist Christian dystopia. If anything, I think Seth has a more sophisticated, multi-pronged approach than you give him credit for. Sure, there are aspects of religious fundamentalism and conservatism in a society like that, but there are also just as many references to left-authoritarian (ie hardline 'sjw') wrongthink and repression. (The scene where Lokar gets sentenced to death resembles both a Communist kangaroo court *and* a Spanish Inquisition trial.). If there weren't, he wouldn't have bothered to create an entire society that is gay *and* extremely repressive. And he realizes (as should we all) that the "social justice outrage" fervor is the far-left's substitute for fundamentalist religion, just as strident and intolerant (and frankly, non-liberal) as the supposed "Nazis" (most of whom are simply mainstream conservatives) they are purporting to punch.

And no, I don't think I'm reading a ton more into it than there should be. After all, the whole reason that "sjws" hate Seth is that he doesn't toe the line of their philosophies in the works he creates. And I think that continues unabated in The Orville, as with his previous projects, but with a bit more subtle and ambiguous approach. You said yourself that you thought it was the best episode - so we both agree that this approach works brilliantly. I would just like to convince you that his method is a bit more multi-faceted than you first thought. He does not merely drub the right; he drubs everyone.

[DrDominator9]

"He does not merely drub the right; he drubs everyone."

And he does it with wonderful creativity and style with only a light pinch of condescension. I love his work. A Million Ways to Die in the West is one of my favorites of his.

[shevek]

Halfway through Orville Season 2, the critics' score on Rotten Tomatoes has now made an entire 180-degree turn from Season One.
In Season One, critical approval topped off at 31%.
But for Season Two, the critic score is so far a whopping 100%.
What could account for the change?

Since the seasons really haven't been that different quality wise (certainly not by a 69% improvement!): there seem to be only two explanations:

1) Critics have earnestly come around after realizing that their initial assessment (based largely on hatred of Seth MacFarlane) was wrong,
and used the excuse of "character-driven" (i.e. a show about feelings) to revise their approach after encountering an audience backlash.

2) Fox was bought by Disney so The Orville has entered the Shill Zone, and Disney is literally shelling out the cash.

Nerdrotic thinks it's a combination of both.

Personally, though, I think there's a THIRD explanation: In the first season, 52 critics felt empowered to lob rotten reviews at the series because of their long-abiding hatred for Seth MacFarlane and his tendency to skewer all political perspectives equally (you can't have such things in progressive Hollywood). In the second season, only 11 critics have weighed in at all, with half the season already in the can. This means that most critics have simply ABSTAINED from saying anything at all because they can't bear to praise MacFarlane (and perhaps some of those 11 even became Disney shills in the meantime).

This brings new meaning to the phrase, "If you can't say anything good, don't say anything at all" because in this case, it actually worked!

[Femina]

Bear in mind popularity ALWAYS has a positive effect for turning opinions. Some of it is no doubt an effort to appease a reviewers readers, but some will be those who think the shows gotten better, or else those who initially dismissed it offhandedly taking a closer look to see just what it was that they missed which had people appreciating it.

I'm of the mind that many series that reach their fourth or fifth season are never NEVER as good as the reviews indicate they are, as enjoyment of the series and what it does invariably pervades the score. Reviews of TV Shows become targeted more and more to their direct audience, and less and less for those curious, with each passing episode... which is why you often see later seasons getting higher scores than earlier ones regardless of if the quality or production has actually changed.

[theScribbler]

Orville S2 RT score is based, so far, on 11 critics, S1 based on 52 critics. One who gave it 3.5/5, another 4/5, another grade B. They all seem to like it to varying degrees. Average rating 7.5/10. Seems since everyone rates it above 50%, RT says it's 100% fresh. I didn't know that before now: that fresh vs rotten was a binary thing.

[shevek]

Orville just keeps leveling up, episode after episode.

There's an incredible payoff in Episode 8, which is the first half of a two-parter called "Identity".
The payoff is even better than I thought - at first as revelations neared their climax in a subterranean corridor (where all the cool scary things happen)
I thought we might get some kind of Eloi/Morlocks dynamic, but instead we get the Borg meets the Cylons!

But the fact that he foregrounds the term "identity" should be proof enough (to Bert and others) that Seth MacFarlane is by no means
the run-of-the-mill progressive you perhaps thought he was.

You must see this episode now!!

[theScribbler]

Orville just keeps leveling up, episode after episode.

There's an incredible payoff in Episode 8, which is the first half of a two-parter called "Identity".
The payoff is even better than I thought - at first as revelations neared their climax in a subterranean corridor (where all the cool scary things happen)
I thought we might get some kind of Eloi/Morlocks dynamic, but instead we get the Borg meets the Cylons!

But the fact that he foregrounds the term "identity" should be proof enough (to Bert and others) that Seth MacFarlane is by no means
the run-of-the-mill progressive you perhaps thought he was.

You must see this episode now!!

Shevek, as a progressive yourself, it's understandable why you lavish such praise on progressive scifi show The Orville and progressive Seth MacFarlane, but don't forget the other 'Identity' writers, progressives Brannon Braga and André Bormanis. Your love of Seth's show with it's diverse, inclusive cast and crew, proves that you're a true progressive.

Yeah, it was a really good episode. And tonight is part II. Looking forward to it.

Not clear to me the point of your "proof enough...Bert and others" sentence, and your "perhaps" guessing their thought about Seth. But you don't need to guess what other people think. You can just ask them. I've read some of your prior writings and you are a terrible guesser of what people think.

[shevek]

Scribbler, we went over this. Bert already said above that Seth MacFarlane is a progressive. I never said he wasn't. What I said that he was hated for skewering both sides. Seth is progressive but he is not hardline or strident. He has a sense of humor and realistic perspective. He does not rail on
about intersectionalism the way Brie Larson does.

So when I'm speculating that he may have titled these episodes "Identity" as a form of commentary on the phenomenon of identity politics, I don't think I'm somehow wildly off the mark in my guess. The Kaylons look a lot like many sci-fi robots (Cybermen, Gort from Earth Stood Still, Twiki from Buck Rogers, and so on) but they also look remarkably like the "NPC" meme that's taken over the Internet. If there's anything that Seth is not, it's a knee-jerk "Non Player Character" zombie-like type of progressive.

Came home too late to watch the conclusion of Identity, so I'll get to it in a couple days.

[helstar]

Wow, that huge battle section must have costed Seth a gigaton of money...

[DrDominator9]

Very interesting two-part arc on the Orville. Identity 1 and 2.

Spoiler

Feels like Seth took the concept of Seven of Nine from the Voyager series and applied it to his Isaac character in terms of making it a character trying to find its human qualities identity. Or, for that matter, Data from TNG, or Spock from the original series. In that sense, I guess he's just following tradition. It's always the science officer though, isn't it? Never the chief of security or the second in command. Anyway, I'm not sure I'd trust Isaac all that much. Nor, would I seek out his company as a crew mate. He was never that likeable a character in the first place but Seth may have doomed him to the audience not liking him or forgiving him for quite some time.

Never wear a red shirt on a sci-fi show. You're going to end up dead. The crew member in red getting forced into the air lock and then sucked out into space. Not a good ending. Don't wear red, people!!!

Loving this show though and yes, it was quite a laser battle at the end.

[shevek]

Identity 1 and 2 was unbelievable! Some of the finest television in quite a while, especially for sci-fi fans. Don't miss it.

Don't watch this video unless you've already watched the episodes...but I find that consistently Egotastic Fun Time is the best recap/review channel
for Orville stuff, so take a peek and see what you think about his wrap-up.

[Bert]

This show has changed quite a bit from season one. Part of me misses the step away from action, as the first season had a fair amount of Palicki in decent fight scenes. This season has been more character focused, and last night's "bottle" episode is a good example. The pilot/funny everyman Malloy falls in love with a simulator version of a woman who lived in our time. It's well done in the touching, never quite subtle enough Star Trek tradition. There's also a hilarious subplot about Bortus and his hubby getting hooked on smoking.

Worth a look.

[DrDominator9]

Most of the scripts on this season of The Orville have been really outstanding, imho. Intriguing, emotionally touching and thought provoking. What more do you want from a show? Oddly, the only missteps of late have been some of the comic moments. And those are rare.

[shevek]

Haven't caught "Lasting Impressions" quite yet (hope to do so tonight), but the show itself has made such a lasting impression that I feel my heart lifting with joy when I hear the theme song, as I used to in the 1980s with TNG.

"Blood of Patriots": Good, even if the idea that someone's blood can literally explode when exposed to the air is a bit of a far reach, it was still a cool concept that was thinking out of the box.

Meanwhile, there seems to be something called the "Orville Effect", which is the idea that something that originally would have been considered a knockoff can, in the right circumstances, be considered a replacement. Don't know how many other times that has happened in pop culture.....

Next week's episode guest stars Marina Sirtis and is directed by #imzadi Jonathan Frakes. I can't imagine how much more this show can level up without literally having an appearance by Shatner himself. Going to see the Captain in three weeks...I think that would be the perfect question to ask him, if he'd consider guesting on Seth Trek. Unfortunately, this episode won't air for three weeks anyway, not until April 11 (they're running a repeat of Identity 1 and 2). Argh.

[Lurkndog]

Identity 1 & 2 reminded me of Babylon 5 with the huge space battle.

I'm going to watch it again and see if I can spot distinct tactics for the human ships versus the Kaylons and the [redacted].

[tallyho]

Just ...step outside and enjoy the sunshine or rain...or anything else that might be happening

[shevek]

Re the episode "Sanctuary", directed by Star Trek's Jonathan Frakes and starring Marina Sirtis as The Orville's school teacher (replacing Kelly Grayson's boyfriend who left the ship).

Continuously amazed by the way The Orville keeps stepping up to the plate to offer thought-provoking commentary which makes sense, draws people in emotionally, and doesn't beat viewers over the head. This is the difference between the way Seth MacFarlane creates his series, and some of the other creators like Berlanti from the CW.

And even with issues where you'd think that every civilized Western person agrees on the values (such as the brutal oppression and erasure of women on Moclus), MacFarlane shows that idealism will never be the same as realpolitik. In this episode, members of the Planetary Union (for the first time, we see glorious amounts of alien species at their Assembly meeting) debate the fate of the breakaway Moclan colony (I seem to remember similar themes written by sci-fi icons like Scalzi in Old Man's War, Brin in the Uplift series, and Steele in his Coyote series, among others) in the context of the wider universe where alliances need strength and weaponry as much as they need ideals and values. A brilliant reflection of the modern world.

In the end

Spoiler

a compromise is reached which works, at least somewhat, for everyone, and makes The Orville crew, especially Grayson and Mercer, look like brave heroes that they are

. This is the kind of complex treatment of a problem that you would never see on Discovery (at least to my knowledge). And it even allows everyone watching the series to gain some of their own confidence for their own political stance, without feeling the least bit alienated by the presentation or the outcome (unless you're a member of ISIS or something).

Bravo to Seth and Co.!

[shevek]

Not sure what people thought of "Tomorrow Tomorrow and Tomorrow"?

To me, the idea of the time-traveling conundrum and the two Kellys, separated by seven years in age, seemed rather cheeseball.
The whole show revolves so much about the personal relationships of the characters that it seems hellbent on fixing the problem of
the post-divorce Mercer/Grayson dynamic in some kind of unpredictable fashion, and time-travel would certainly do it.
But I'm not sure anything needed to be repaired in such a drastic manner - couldn't they just continue in a "Moonlighting"-style will-they-won't-they
for a while longer? Or get back together once they realize how perfect they are for each other? Is a time-based anomaly really necessary to
accomplish that?

On the other hand, watching Adrienne Palicki play the younger Kelly was quite invigorating, as she is an absolutely gorgeous woman.
In fact, she's so far above Mercer's league you wonder how they even got together in the first place.
The next episode is the finale, and it looks like there are explosions afoot, so I wonder if the whole idea of the couple never meeting
in the first place (under the new timeline? this could get confusing) causes the destruction of a starship?

Anyway, I actually thought this episode was a step backward and a bit of a mess, but at the same time it is reminiscent of a couple of time-travel
based episode from the Next Generation. So did your mileage vary?

[TIEnTEEZ]

Not sure what people thought of "Tomorrow Tomorrow and Tomorrow"?

To me, the idea of the time-traveling conundrum and the two Kellys, separated by seven years in age, seemed rather cheeseball.
The whole show revolves so much about the personal relationships of the characters that it seems hellbent on fixing the problem of
the post-divorce Mercer/Grayson dynamic in some kind of unpredictable fashion, and time-travel would certainly do it.
But I'm not sure anything needed to be repaired in such a drastic manner - couldn't they just continue in a "Moonlighting"-style will-they-won't-they
for a while longer? Or get back together once they realize how perfect they are for each other? Is a time-based anomaly really necessary to
accomplish that?

On the other hand, watching Adrienne Palicki play the younger Kelly was quite invigorating, as she is an absolutely gorgeous woman.
In fact, she's so far above Mercer's league you wonder how they even got together in the first place.
The next episode is the finale, and it looks like there are explosions afoot, so I wonder if the whole idea of the couple never meeting
in the first place (under the new timeline? this could get confusing) causes the destruction of a starship?

Anyway, I actually thought this episode was a step backward and a bit of a mess, but at the same time it is reminiscent of a couple of time-travel
based episode from the Next Generation. So did your mileage vary?

I liked it, I guess, but I found some of it tough to watch. Say what you will, but the show doesn't shy away from putting the characters into really awkward, difficult situations. I spent a lot of my time watching this episode wondering how they heck they did that with Adrienne Palicki. Was it make-up? Special effects? She didn't just look younger, she actually seemed thinner to me. I kept thinking they must've got her sister or someone who really looks and sounds just like her to play the role.

I was very disappointed in the ending - or at least what I thought was the ending. The whole mind-wipe thing was so lame. But then there's a big twist at the end, so now we are left wondering what will happen there. Did they create a new timeline? Will there be a crossover to that timeline in some future episode? Or will the season finale take place in some completely altered universe in which Kelly and Mercer never married?

BTW.. I got the impression that all those explosions in the preview were not new. All of the scenes after the show were scenes from previous shows. I don't think they actually gave us anything about next week.

[shevek]

Well, TienTeez, you were right about the 'new timeline in some future episode' and the completely altered universe in which Kelly and Mercer never married. It all happened almost immediately in the Season 2 finale "The Road Not Taken".

The best thing about the episode was, in fact, the altered timeline. It seemed to be a more gritty variation of the Orville's original timeline - kind of jacked-up and edgy 90s style, with their leather attire, the darker ship lighting, and the action/adventure of careening through asteroid belts, hiding in the event horizon of a black hole, and laser fights with Kaelons. Very Star Wars / Battlestar Galactica / Andromeda / Stargate. And the best thing is that we got to see Adrienne Palicki looking absolutely gorgeous for most of the episode in her rugged cleavage-baring space-pirate outfit, and finally planted some much deserved smooches on Mercer.

I kind of wish they could have stayed in that universe - it was more adventurous and romantic than the bright ST:TNG- style colors of the regular Orville timeline. But I'm glad everything went back to normal. I think there was no real cliffhanger in this finale because it's possible they just don't know whether the show is coming back. The speculation on renewal is still afoot.

I read a post on Reddit that claims that with live and DVR viewers combined, the Orville has almost 6 million viewers per episode which is better
than Gotham Season 3. The poster argued that since Gotham got renewed for seasons 4 and 5, that the Orville is therefore a shoo-in for Season 3.

I really hope this wonderful series continues!

P.S. I had one problem with the altered timeline where the Kaelons destroyed Earth. Doctor Finn notices there are no fish in the ocean, and she is told that the Kaelon were exceptionally thorough in their extermination of Earthly life. My question is - if so, why didn't the Kaelon bother to make sure that the Orville was actually destroyed? Surely the Kaelon with their vast technological expertise could have traced it to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

[Bert]

Those short sleeves displayed how grossly thin Palicki is. That's extremely troubling. She needs help.

[tallyho]

I thought that Bert based on the younger version of herself -her legs looked anorexically thin, and horrendous in the skin tight leggings

[TIEnTEEZ]

Well, TienTeez, you were right about the 'new timeline in some future episode' and the completely altered universe in which Kelly and Mercer never married. It all happened almost immediately in the Season 2 finale "The Road Not Taken".

The best thing about the episode was, in fact, the altered timeline. It seemed to be a more gritty variation of the Orville's original timeline - kind of jacked-up and edgy 90s style, with their leather attire, the darker ship lighting, and the action/adventure of careening through asteroid belts, hiding in the event horizon of a black hole, and laser fights with Kaelons. Very Star Wars / Battlestar Galactica / Andromeda / Stargate. And the best thing is that we got to see Adrienne Palicki looking absolutely gorgeous for most of the episode in her rugged cleavage-baring space-pirate outfit, and finally planted some much deserved smooches on Mercer.

I kind of wish they could have stayed in that universe - it was more adventurous and romantic than the bright ST:TNG- style colors of the regular Orville timeline. But I'm glad everything went back to normal. I think there was no real cliffhanger in this finale because it's possible they just don't know whether the show is coming back. The speculation on renewal is still afoot.

I read a post on Reddit that claims that with live and DVR viewers combined, the Orville has almost 6 million viewers per episode which is better
than Gotham Season 3. The poster argued that since Gotham got renewed for seasons 4 and 5, that the Orville is therefore a shoo-in for Season 3.

I really hope this wonderful series continues!

P.S. I had one problem with the altered timeline where the Kaelons destroyed Earth. Doctor Finn notices there are no fish in the ocean, and she is told that the Kaelon were exceptionally thorough in their extermination of Earthly life. My question is - if so, why didn't the Kaelon bother to make sure that the Orville was actually destroyed? Surely the Kaelon with their vast technological expertise could have traced it to the bottom of the Marianas Trench.

That's really the least of the discrepancies in this story.

I mean, I enjoyed the episode, I guess. But I really wish they hadn't gone down the whole time-travel road at all. Once you introduce that concept into the world, where does it end? Every bad thing that happens from now on, the question will be: Why don't they just go back in time and fix it?

The whole Kaylon-are-evil-and-bent-on-destroying-all-biological-life story line seems pretty hokey and unrealistic to me. For a species that's supposed to be so smart, this seems awfully dumb and irrational.

I was happy to see Sage Halston back on the show, though. There was a lot of speculation and hints that she might be back at some point. But it seems like it was just a one-and-done. :(

I really like her. They did SO much character development on her in the first and even second season that it was devastating to lose her. Her replacement is really dull by comparison. Maybe they will do more with her in season three.

[tallyho]

Its got its season 3 renewal, announced officially on 11th May