Do You Care About the Stories Section?

Want to just talk about stories? Float a request, do some research, recruit a partner in crime? Then come on in and have yourself a pint.

How often do you read the stories here?

A) I check them out almost daily
27
47%
B) I check them out about once a week
17
30%
C) I check them out a couple of times a month
6
11%
D) I rarely read any stories here
7
12%
 
Total votes: 57
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DrDominator9
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We've had quite a few new authors contributing to our stories sections lately, both regular and in the dungeon. I think they've been telling some interesting tales yet the response has been very quiet compared to other sections of this site.

I'm curious about how often our regular visitors to this site look over the stories. And I'd love to hear feedback here about whether the stories are fulfilling the visitors needs here. Are the characters written about being over-used perhaps. Would you prefer more original characters (OCs)?

I'm raising this issue because when a story gets put out there and there are so few comments posted, it becomes very demotivating for the authors and it threatens the overall creative health of the SHIP genre I feel. Sometimes I wonder if people just don't comment because they don't like a story and don't want to be too critical. You should know that constructive criticism for most authors is a godsend. Praise is nice. Helpful suggestions and comments are even better.

Please let our authors know you care. The readership numbers for the stories are waaaay higher than the number of comments by a factor of 20 or more, so we know the stories are being read. This poll is a means of finding out how often people visit a story. I appreciate you taking the time to vote and, always, for your comments on the stories submitted here for your enjoyment by all the varied contributing authors.
Follow this link to descriptions of my stories and easy links to them:

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32025
Bert

As a noob contributor of a couple stories, I can vouch for the value of feedback. Writing (at least for me) is time consuming. It's gratifying to have someone take the time to comment on your work. Criticism is welcome - it's a way to get better.
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CJS
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I can say I appreciate the feedback, too. I'm guilty of not reading as many of the other stories as I should, although that is changing lately as I just got through a super busy patch. My interests, though, are a bit niche for the site in the sense that I don't typically go for stuff that is too extreme. That eliminates many of the stories here, which are otherwise great. I don't have a preference for original characters vs ones we know, but I too have specific preferences, as we all do (just as an example to illustrate my point, I typically prefer stories where the heroine is alone in her powers, as opposed to being one among many; I don't care for musclebound heroines; etc.)
Sapphire Angel - Superheroine
Book 1 — Superheroine (complete)
Book 2 — Power Play (complete)
Book 3 — Deconstruction (complete)
Book 4 — Savage Dawn (complete)
Book 5 — Savage Vengeance (coming January 2024)
GeekyPornCritic

I did not vote in the poll. I feel the options do not fit me that well. I enjoy reading stories about original characters. Original stories have the elements of surprise and suspense. I can imagine the characters and perils in the story. Classic characters like Supergirl and Wonder Woman are great to watch in SHIP movies, but they don't work well in written stories. It is not fun to read a story with an obvious conflict of Supergirl's defeat.

I also only enjoy stories with erotica and sex such as Ms. Marvelous by Steven Bell, Scarlett Dove by Lady Jane, Victory by Lady Jane, and Fuchsia Fox by Centurion. If you story lacks sexual elements, then I will skip over it. Sadly there has never been another series like Ms. Marvelous. If anyone ever writes a similar character with the same weakness of being seduced and submissive without death being a consequence, then I would totally be excited and support it. I am surprised no one has written an original character with the same weakness and peril.
Last edited by GeekyPornCritic 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
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DrDominator9
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GeekyPornCritic wrote:
5 years ago
Classic characters like Supergirl and Wonder Woman are great to watch in SHIP movies, but they don't work well in written stories. It is not fun to read a story with an oblivious conflict of Supergirl's defeat.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you prefer that Supergirl wins? What makes a conflict obvious? (Unclear what an oblivious conflict is.) Can you explain a bit more?
Follow this link to descriptions of my stories and easy links to them:

viewtopic.php?f=70&t=32025
IMSancho
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Yes, I love them. I'd really like to see another Lightspeed, Hypergirl, American Pi, or Batwoman and Flamebird story.

Those were my favorite ones on here.
GeekyPornCritic

DrDominator9 wrote:
5 years ago
GeekyPornCritic wrote:
5 years ago
Classic characters like Supergirl and Wonder Woman are great to watch in SHIP movies, but they don't work well in written stories. It is not fun to read a story with an oblivious conflict of Supergirl's defeat.
I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you prefer that Supergirl wins? What makes a conflict obvious? (Unclear what an oblivious conflict is.) Can you explain a bit more?
Sorry I meant to write obvious.

Classic superheroines are not exciting to read stories about in my opinion. I like watching SHIP movies of them, but reading about them is not as exciting. We know Supergirl's weaknesses, and her defeat will be very obvious. That's hot to watch in movies, but not exciting to read. I want to read original heroines in sexual perils. I can picture original heroines, a new world, new villains, etc. I would never know what to expect.
brdiy
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For the record, the stories are what led me to this site. I've written a few stories myself (I once posted a Darna story here) and have a few stories running through my head, though I must admit, I feel I am not really cut to be a writer. Though reading stories here do inspire me to continue to imagine ways to get the better of our superheroines. :)

Personally, it's the classic characters that I love reading about the most. Having seen them on TV and comics, it becomes easier for me to visualize their defeat. To me stories about defeating Supergirl and Wonder Woman can never really be overdone for me and I do watch out for how creative the writers can get in subduing these characters given their established weaknesses. However it would be nice to also see more of other classic characters "getting their due". For instance, stories about Mary Marvel or maybe The Mighty Isis are few and far between.
Check out my superheroine-related short stories here:

https://archiveofourown.org/users/brdiy/works
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girlofsteel
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Let me start by thanking all who do comment and leave feedback.

As a writer, it means the world.

For me, one of the most demoralizing things is when a new story gets buried within hours of being posted beneath a sea of dribble i.e. resuscitating a long dead post or the latest politically-laced rantings. One of the more frustrating ones is when an upcoming video gets promoted, not just once but multiple times a day.

It’s just my opinion, but this doesn’t feel right. It takes a long time to craft a story. In many ways writing is a crumby deal. You labor intensively to produce something that people devour in minutes. And (in a weird inverse of logic) the better you write the less aware the reader is of the pain – and, to be clear, that’s how it should be.

But if you find a writer you like, consider rewarding them with a comment. And I don’t mean “good job.” While that’s nice to hear, it’s worth more if you can add a why. I can’t speak for others, but personally I want to know the bad as well as the good.

The goal is to get better. And hearing what people think is a huge part of that. It’s what makes the forum and this community such an amazing place.

But for this to work the forum also has to do a better job of promoting written works. This is a minor gripe, but I’ve been writing here for three years, and I (along with several others) are still not on the Index of Stories – why is that? I know it takes time – I don’t think anyone is getting paid here. But this initiative is a positive example of how current writers, the folks who are pumping fresh blood, could immediately benefit.

Let me end this by going back to the start: thank you to all who comment. And a big, big thanks to our mods for everything you do. You’re amazing. And 100 percent, there are some fabulous stories being written right now. If you enjoy reading your peril, check them out (but make sure to comment :cool2: ).
Last edited by girlofsteel 5 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
Echoes of Destruction - https://bit.ly/36InC8N
Alert Station - https://bit.ly/3iQyHaf
Lost in the Swarm - https://bit.ly/3uMcgZg
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I enjoy the stories section. Its a big draw for me. Comics are storytelling. Fanfiction is the natural extension of showing how passionate you are about a character or a genre. I don't comment much on the stories, but I do read them. I have found that as with videos, people can get so caught up in their niche fetish that if is is not in a video or story that piece of work is no good. I disagree with that. Videos and stories are what the writers want to share with us. If people don't like a story, they are welcome to take the time and share with us what they deem is important.
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tallyho
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girlofsteel wrote:
5 years ago

. This is a minor grip, but I’ve been writing here for three years, and I (along with several others) are still not on the Index of Stories – why is that? I know it takes time – I don’t think anyone is getting paid here. But this initiative is a positive example of how current writers, the folks who are pumping fresh blood, could immediately benefit.

Disciple had said originally he was going to concentrate on putting up stories from the non Dungeon section first but also he stated

(Note: I plan to mostly list authors with more than one story under their belts here. That being said, I am a lazy bastard and kind of arbitrary with a lot of things in my life. If you think your story's been unjustly excluded from this index, shoot me a PM. I assure you it's nothing personal.)


So maybe PM them to be included?
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saxman314
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Most of the stories don't appeal to me. The ones mostly dealing with name-brand heroines usually catch my attention, and when they're well written and sexy I love them.
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tallyho
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I would just urge anyone to comment on what they read and whilst ' Think you should space out your paragraphs a bit more ' is more useful than 'Good job' , I will gladly settle for 'Good job' over silence any day of the week.
It really is crushing to be met with silence after you have spent weeks or months pulling something together. My 15 or so stories have had over 300,000 + views collectively and probably less than 300 comments and whilst I am happy I am doing the best I can, in the early days it was soul destroying to be greeted with silence. Some of my very best chapters got no comments at all and it does make it harder to motivate yourself when what you do is seemingly being ignored.
So please, IF YOU READ IT, COMMENT. It takes seconds.
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Get Your Exxon
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I to was drawn to this forum because of stories. There simply aren’t enough good ones.Not knocking, part of the problem is taste. If a character doesn’t act or look a specific way then i’m not interested. Same goes for vids.

I think that’s the problem or part of it. There are soooo many options now. Its easy to pick and chose. So much has already been done that (and this could just be me) few things feel original any more. Gotta keep pushing the envelope and all that.

Not saying there ain’t originality, its just harder to come by, know what I mean. Even so called “original characters” often feel like traditional ones by another name (my preference is Supergirl though WW or Batgirl work to). Anyways i’m As guilty as the next. It’s been a while since i’ve commented. When you find a story you don’t like its easier to say nothing (kinda feels respectful). but yeah will endeavour to comment more.
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CJS
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I've been thinking about this thread, and about my comment and the comments of one or two others that pointed out how we all have our unique interests. I went back to try to find some stories that met my interests, and it was a bit hard to sort through the many stories here just because of the volume. I feel fortunate that I stumbled upon Bert's stories early on. I'm sure there are other great stories that I just haven't been able to find. I found Disciple's fantastic list, and think that gives a taste of what this could be.

I think even a way to mark or tag stories that fall into general categories would be a big help. For example, I could start reading a story, and then it would get really, really extreme into forced sex, torture, etc. I'm not knocking that, but that isn't my thing. A way to find those easily would help people like me, but also people who want to read it. Authors often put that info in a disclaimer at the start, but you still have to drill down into posts to see it.

So, that's a longwinded way of saying that it's a shame there isn't a way for an author to tag or mark his/her story into a few broad categories that are easily searchable. Off the top of my head I'm thinking original characters or not; nonconsenual and violent sex; amount of graphic violence. I'm sure there are others I'm missing.
Sapphire Angel - Superheroine
Book 1 — Superheroine (complete)
Book 2 — Power Play (complete)
Book 3 — Deconstruction (complete)
Book 4 — Savage Dawn (complete)
Book 5 — Savage Vengeance (coming January 2024)
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I LOVE the stories section, I really miss writing or colaborating with some amazing people on here and you know who you are!!!! I can always count on a hot sexy little blonde supergirl being degraded and destroyed as well as me(Batgirl) being put into unimaginable sexual perils...I not only love these stories...some of them...I LIVE!!!
Imagineer
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The click count -- and that's what it is, not a read but a click -- will always be way higher than comments.

Commenting doesn't take seconds. Commenting takes climbing a sheer wall of "what do I even say?" with razor wire of "what will they think of me?" along the top. Commenting takes way more bravery than reading.

Writers know this (though they may have forgotten), because it took way more bravery to post their first story than it did to write it.

So if you want to get feedback, take time to give feedback. PM it forward.

Readers: bravery pays off over time. If you're worried about being outed, wear a mask.


As for frustration about stories getting buried by non-stories...
Don't moderators clean non-stories out of the stories section?
Isn't there a tab on the home page for stories?

Maybe the admin has the ability to make separate Twitter feeds for Stories and the Dungeon. If not, maybe the admin would authorize someone to manually maintain site-branded Twitter feeds. And maybe someone could make a weekly crossposting to the main Twitter feed of all the new/updated stories for the week.

Though honestly, an obscure Twitter feed doesn't seem much different to me from an obscure website. Don't people still use Google when they're looking for something of interest?

Writers, roleplay the person you think would read your work if only they could find it. How do you think they're searching?
GeekyPornCritic

Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago

Though honestly, an obscure Twitter feed doesn't seem much different to me from an obscure website. Don't people still use Google when they're looking for something of interest?
It's interesting that you mention the site's Twitter feed. The Twitter page could use some improvements on promoting stories, topics, and new releases. Most of the tweets are just copied and pasted comments from threads. It would be better to make a catchy statement to promote the forums.

It would also help to have more interaction with followers and just starting conversations with tweets that do not directly promote the forums. People will look at the Twitter page as spam if it only promotes the site. Start conversations about superheroines.
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I confess - I only barely make enough time to read a little within a month, often AMAZOS being the one I check in on most. Much of my forum time goes into creating stuff, not consuming the productive work of others. I know that's not great but that's how it is for me, especially right now.

To echo the sentiments of other people here, sure, it is crap that you can put in a bucket load of time into a story and have it either be snuffed out by other forum traffic (which may have its own merits, to be fair, though sometimes not) or, equally frustrating you get nothing. You see that view count go up by 1 .. 2 ...3 ... and you have no idea what happened. Did someone read the whole thing or did they leave after the first line, paragraph or chapter? You've no idea, you just get one more viewcount. Great.

For those who have secretly read something and not commented on it because they didn't want to publicly say something you could always PM the author instead. Sure, I would prefer a public comment but I'd take a PM over silence any day. Please just consider the transaction of the writer's time to create their work V your time to say something, you are getting a good deal.

Girlofsteel - sorry you are not on the writers list, though I can recommend setting up something for yourself. If you check out my first link in my sig you can see I created a post in the "introduce yourself" section and listed out my stuff there. I edit mine (not new replies, but just edit it to stop sending it back to the top) from time to time with new content. I get reasonable traffic, I doubt people are checking my stuff by going to the thread directly, I'm fairly sure they are going there by following my sig link they've seen elsewhere. So - that may work for you too.
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My current story is Supergirl V Bane


This is all the stuff I've done here but don't tell anyone about this!
Damselbinder

I too, despite being a pretty regular contributor by this point, don't comment as much as I should. I steer away from anything dungeon-related, and find myself with perhaps unfairly exacting standards for what I read. I echo Imagineer's point about those wanting feedback needing to give feedback, but I'd append that by saying readers that want good stories should encourage and reasonably criticise authors.
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tallyho
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Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
The click count -- and that's what it is, not a read but a click -- will always be way higher than comments.
That's a given - I personally divide any view counts by 10 to get an idea of how many readers might eb looking at something
But the point is if you aren't getting even a 1:1000 ratio of comments to views that is just not a reflection on anyones quality of work but largely on the laziness of readers to post
Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
Commenting doesn't take seconds. Commenting takes climbing a sheer wall of "what do I even say?" with razor wire of "what will they think of me?" along the top. Commenting takes way more bravery than reading.
I think the word 'bravery' only applies to a negative comment.
But it clearly CAN take seconds to post a comment be it 'nice work' or ' 7/10' or whatever - we aren't after a 10 page thesis just give us SOMETHING to take on board good or bad. There's even a LIKE BUTTON that can at least indicate satisfaction

Detailed comments are better but if you didnt like a story even 'this just wasn't for me - too much sex' or whatever the denigrating opinion might be is still worth knowing to an author and doesn't take long to type

Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
So if you want to get feedback, take time to give feedback. PM it forward.
I just don't understand what you mean by this? PM what forward, to whom? Feedback on what, other writers works? Most of us do. I always post on every thread I read, and most of the comments I have had have been from other writers and they would probably say the same.
I have 6 writing projects on the go and mod the board - I dont have time to read the stories section and so I largely don't. Other writers are the same - writing rather than reading. You can't pay anything forward if you haven't read it.

(I am not attacking you here I just genuinely dont understand what you mean)

Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
Writers, roleplay the person you think would read your work if only they could find it. How do you think they're searching?
If the stories are being read then this serves no purpose - and none of us are particularly calling for more readers (nice though that is) its the lack of any feedback from those who have read it is the issue
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Classic DC Wonder Woman, Supergirl and Batgirl consist of 90% of my Fanfic reading!!
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tallyho wrote:
5 years ago
...
tallyho, I empathize with writers desperate for feedback. I know what that's like.
I don't think you remember what it's like to be a reader -- or at least today you can't sympathize with readers who aren't just like you.

Upon what do you base your assessment that you're not getting the feedback you deserve? And yes, that is what you're saying -- "that is just not a reflection on anyones quality of work but largely on the laziness of readers to post." Consider taking that back.

Maybe you've heard the expression "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" -- well, you dumped a bucket of sour grapes here. And you completely dismissed the possibility that people reading stories hosted at an online forum for superheroine peril might have hang-ups about it. Not everyone who hasn't mustered the discipline and bravery of the writer is lazy or a coward. I am honestly stunned that you called your readers lazy, and on their behalf, I'm removing one of my gloves and slapping you with it.

People are positively drowning in content in the modern world. Amazing television shows by brilliant creators can't find an audience -- and they're not asking for anything more than eyeballs. Now you're insulting your drowning readers for not giving you enough of their time. Remember, they didn't ask you to sacrifice your time; you chose to do that. This is the writer's lot. How strange are the ways of the gods... and how cruel.

Yes, definitely use your communication skills to share how the dearth of feedback makes you feel, and the tremendous power that useful feedback contains. Yes, helpfully suggest that, just like on YouTube, there's a Like button, and just like on YouTube, you'd love it if they shared their thoughts in the comments below. But how many successful YouTube channels have you seen that call their viewers lazy for not doing so? (Even if they believe it's true, they don't say it out loud.)

Writers who are too busy to read are neglecting an important avenue for improving their skill set. Writers who help other writers get better. When you find yourself particularly thirsty for a bit of feedback, take an hour and find a fellow thirsty writer and pour them a drink of feedback. In fact, if writing and getting feedback are important to you, then as much as I personally appreciate your general forum moderating, I implore you to dial that back and let someone else take up the slack, so that you can contribute more directly to reading and feedback. It will help your writing in ways moderating can't. You will be happier for it. You crave the rush of feedback? Well there's a rush in recognizing your own growth as a writer, too.

And if you genuinely believe the readers you have suck because they don't give you enough feedback, why would you think finding more readers serves no purpose? Many writers struggle to find their audience. For Pete's sake, don't just give up the search.

And if the only feedback you ever get is from other writers? Well, as my grandma used to say, it beats a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.

Staying positive and motivated can be so damn hard. And I know you guys aren't venting just for yourselves but on behalf of the community of writers. But really, try the honey -- it's delicious and soothing. :) And I hope one day you'll forgive my one glove.
Damselbinder

Before this turns into another SH-Forum brand punch up (I'm not saying it's there yet, but I feel it's heading in a somewhat confrontational direction), can we simply agree that it would be better for the health of the community if readers gave some kind of commentary or feedback? People making television shows, yes, don't ask for comments - but they get paid, and surely every new film, series, etc, will get reviewed by professional critics, so they WILL get feedback on their work. They don't ask because they know they're going to get it.

Yes, perhaps calling people lazy is unfair, but it's frustrating to put dozens of hours into a piece of writing and getting absolute radio silence in return on a platform that is, principally, designed for communication and discussion. It's like using Tinder, only it takes hundreds of times longer.
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Frustrating, maddening, ego-bruising, doubt-spiraling, depressing, soul-crushing.
I hope more readers will sympathize with the writer's plight and make an effort to get some love over that wall.
But I think the platform is not doing writers any favors.
Now I'll shut up here until I've done some more reading of my own.
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Imagineer - I am not seeking war here, though I will gladly stick my face in the path of your glove, not only to take some of the sting out of it for Tally, but also in recognition that I too would say that readers can be lazy. That being said there is plenty to suggest that readers can easily click into a story that is totally unsuited for their tastes and so they leave early. Likewise a story that may be their thing might be impossible to find except by chance. That certainly is a platform issue, you are right. But in any event it cannot be unreasonable for a writer to look at his uncommented story with x-number of views and be left feeling ... well ... insert suitable emotion here.

In further defence of Tally, I might suggest that he has already made the forum awash with honey in terms of his content output. That's the upfront contribution writers make when they just put up their work here. And he catches flies. Buckets of them. But they don't make a peep, and that's the point. Hopefully by putting a little vinegar in here the readers will understand we are utterly frikking desperate to hear from them, but please, I don't read what Tally has said as sour grapes.
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My current story is Supergirl V Bane


This is all the stuff I've done here but don't tell anyone about this!
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Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
tallyho wrote:
5 years ago
...
tallyho, I empathize with writers desperate for feedback. I know what that's like.
I don't think you remember what it's like to be a reader -- or at least today you can't sympathize with readers who aren't just like you.

Upon what do you base your assessment that you're not getting the feedback you deserve? And yes, that is what you're saying -- "that is just not a reflection on anyones quality of work but largely on the laziness of readers to post." Consider taking that back.

Maybe you've heard the expression "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar" -- well, you dumped a bucket of sour grapes here. And you completely dismissed the possibility that people reading stories hosted at an online forum for superheroine peril might have hang-ups about it. Not everyone who hasn't mustered the discipline and bravery of the writer is lazy or a coward. I am honestly stunned that you called your readers lazy, and on their behalf, I'm removing one of my gloves and slapping you with it.

People are positively drowning in content in the modern world. Amazing television shows by brilliant creators can't find an audience -- and they're not asking for anything more than eyeballs. Now you're insulting your drowning readers for not giving you enough of their time. Remember, they didn't ask you to sacrifice your time; you chose to do that. This is the writer's lot. How strange are the ways of the gods... and how cruel.

Yes, definitely use your communication skills to share how the dearth of feedback makes you feel, and the tremendous power that useful feedback contains. Yes, helpfully suggest that, just like on YouTube, there's a Like button, and just like on YouTube, you'd love it if they shared their thoughts in the comments below. But how many successful YouTube channels have you seen that call their viewers lazy for not doing so? (Even if they believe it's true, they don't say it out loud.)

Writers who are too busy to read are neglecting an important avenue for improving their skill set. Writers who help other writers get better. When you find yourself particularly thirsty for a bit of feedback, take an hour and find a fellow thirsty writer and pour them a drink of feedback. In fact, if writing and getting feedback are important to you, then as much as I personally appreciate your general forum moderating, I implore you to dial that back and let someone else take up the slack, so that you can contribute more directly to reading and feedback. It will help your writing in ways moderating can't. You will be happier for it. You crave the rush of feedback? Well there's a rush in recognizing your own growth as a writer, too.

And if you genuinely believe the readers you have suck because they don't give you enough feedback, why would you think finding more readers serves no purpose? Many writers struggle to find their audience. For Pete's sake, don't just give up the search.

Besides the 6 projects of my own I have on, I am helping three other writers who dont have English as their first language to post their stories so, yeah, I am happy that I fit into the 'writers who help other writers get better' category :giggle:

If you read the posts above your own you will see several of them admitting that they don't comment as much as they should which to me implies that they just haven't got around to it. If you are a reader there is no excuse in my book for not hitting the 'like' button even if you don't have the time to post a comment (if you liked the story obviously). The whole point of this thread is to change what is happening currently. I have never said my readers 'suck' and this is a thread about ALL readers - I have just used my own experience as a point of reference

You say also

" Now you're insulting your drowning readers for not giving you enough of their time. "

But I am not. Most of my stuff is very detailed and takes a while to read - probably around 30 minutes a post - if you have invested 30 minutes in reading something is it really too much to ask of them to spend 30 minutes and 1 second to read it and then click 'like' or 30 minutes and 10 seconds to read it and then type 'really liked it thanks!' and hit post? I don't think so personally. Apparently you do and that's your privelege. Readers have already given me their time is my point

You ask on what basis I assume I am not getting the feedback I deserve - its not a question of 'deserve' and you have missed the point of this thread - its NOT ABOUT ME - its ALL authors get little feedback and in most cases if you deduct the fellow writers feedback then you are getting maybe one independent reader posting, sometimes two. out of hundreds or thousands of views. And very often none.

and you say

But how many successful YouTube channels have you seen that call their viewers lazy for not doing so? (Even if they believe it's true, they don't say it out loud.)

Absolutely none, BUT I don't have any time to watch you tube channels (see above!) :giggle: So the number of you tube channels I have seen is also pretty much zero :giggle:
I am not on any form of social media either, as I don't have the time (again see above!)


You never actually addressed the question I had though, what exactly did you mean by paying it forward?
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Chaps I am not being aggressive here and apologies if I have come over that way - I have liked Imagineers posts as ...er they are feedback on the thread and it only took a second to like them so it kinda helped make my point :giggle:

I know, I'm a dick , :giggle: lol.
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Such a long defense. So defensive. Aggressively so by sheer length. Tit for tat, eh?
And yes absolutely about writers not getting what they deserve, and you absolutely used the word laziness which absolutely IS insulting your readers, don't defensively quibble over the semantics of it. And twice now you've glossed over any explanation other than laziness for not getting the feedback you feel you're entitled to. Entitlement is an ugly sweater, take it off.
And *facepalm* paying it forward is responding to your desire for feedback by reading and giving feedback. Google "pay it forward." It's a thing.
But please, waste more of the time you don't have to say again that it only takes ten seconds more to write feedback. Maybe you don't have time because you underestimate how much time and effort things take. Now get down off the cross while I still think it seems so unlike you.
:giggle:
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tallyho
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Imagineer wrote:
5 years ago
Such a long defense. So defensive. Aggressively so by sheer length. Tit for tat, eh?
And yes absolutely about writers not getting what they deserve, and you absolutely used the word laziness which absolutely IS insulting your readers, don't defensively quibble over the semantics of it. And twice now you've glossed over any explanation other than laziness for not getting the feedback you feel you're entitled to. Entitlement is an ugly sweater, take it off.
And *facepalm* paying it forward is responding to your desire for feedback by reading and giving feedback. Google "pay it forward." It's a thing.
But please, waste more of the time you don't have to say again that it only takes ten seconds more to write feedback. Maybe you don't have time because you underestimate how much time and effort things take. Now get down off the cross while I still think it seems so unlike you.
:giggle:
Hey if I could read stories in the time it takes to write these posts then I would have.
My point was pay WHAT forward as the vast majority of commenters ARE fellow WRITERS so we are ALREADY paying it forward to each other (as I stated earlier) and I and most other writers always post on what we have read (again as I stated earlier)
And I put giggles in so wheres the aggression? I do kinda like the notion of being aggressively defensive though :blink:

Its not about 'entitlement' - if writers give up because they aren't learning anything from the experience in terms of what they are doing well or what they are doing badly then ultimately there would be no stories - its not about entitlement, its about having common sense.
If you like it say you like it and you will get more of what you like.
If you don't say why you don't and you may get more of what you like

So either way posting a comment is a winner, right?

You keep bringing this back to me and I am talking about the board (ok referencing my experiences on it but isnt that what we all do?)

If I put another giggly emoji up would that help?
:giggle:

I have tried.
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There are a couple of writers on this site that I read and I try to give feedback when I can. To be honest I have scoured the archives on this forum and most of the stories on here simply do not interest me either because they are not in my wheelhouse or they are simply too long, sometimes both.
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I hope the creation of new exciting Wonder Woman and Supergirl stories continues! But also, it would be awesome to see more stories written about other superheroines too! Spider Girl, Captain Marvel, Black Widow, Invisible Woman, Black Canary, Batwoman, Scarlet Witch, Batgirl, Black Scorpion. There are so many hot characters to choose from! Comments help superheroine fans come together, and build new ideas.
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Story forum needs ratings. Way too many stories to randomly pick from.

I think I read like 3 paragraphs of a story once. If there were some known 5 star stories, I might read one of those.
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Trouble is who would rate them?
I have toyed with the idea of putting a poll on my stories as an indicator but not done it yet
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theScribbler wrote:
5 years ago
Story forum needs ratings. Way too many stories to randomly pick from.

I think I read like 3 paragraphs of a story once. If there were some known 5 star stories, I might read one of those.
That sounds like an easy way to home in on good stories, but I see many pitfalls. Rated by whom? According to what criteria? Are new authors rated as severely as established ones? If one person is tasked with rating stories, will you end up with people "writing to the test"? Playing to the perceived tastes of the rater?

There is clearly an extremely wide range of quality in the stories here. To some extent, "good" is empirical - word usage, sentence structure, detail, etc., but in our genre tastes run the gamut. That's hard to account for with a rating. You say you once read three paragraphs of a story. Well then, you didn't really waste that much time on it. Having access to a large volume of work might be a little overwhelming to readers, but come on, as problems go, "too much choice" isn't the worst thing to deal with.

We all have our own idea of what an entertaining story is. I tend to scan titles for clues. I'll click on a story and read the first bit to see if the writing appeals to me. If it does, I'll scan the first few pages quickly looking for the content I enjoy most and gauge if that stuff measures up. If it does, I'll read it. I'm not sure how a rating system can capture that. I've read stories here that have high quality wordsmithing but take 10,000 words to reach the heroine's first skirmish. How do you rate that? It's well written, but boring as fuck to me because I like action. I've also read stories that have only brief snippets of action, but I love them because the storyline really interests me. How do you rate that?

--Long pause--Jeopardy music interlude as Bert's brain tries to actually think--

Maybe stories could be rated by readers on several broad categories. For example, the reader has the option of giving an A, B or C grade on:

Writing Quality
World Building
Action
Peril
Sexual Content

It would certainly help weed out content, but it's probably a massive headache to set up, if it's even possible.

Thinking is hard. I'm done.
GeekyPornCritic

tallyho wrote:
5 years ago
Trouble is who would rate them?
I have toyed with the idea of putting a poll on my stories as an indicator but not done it yet
I was just going to make a post about ratings.

People are most likely to just read a story than make a comment and rate it. Look at YouTube for an example. A video will have 500,000 views, 2,500 likes/500 dislikes, and 100 comments. Very few people take the time to comment on a video or piece of art.

A rating system would be effective to know how people feel about a story. However, not everyone will even take the time to rate it, but there will be more ratings than comments.

Readers will rate the stories of course.

I also think categories will help readers as well. As I said I prefer reading stories with sexual peril. I feel like I wasted my time reading a story that does not have sexual peril. Categories will help people find what they are looking for. The categories can range from explicit, PG-13/non-explicit, and extreme explicit if it has blood with sex. Then, readers will focus on rating and commenting on stories that suit their interest.
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I want to thank everyone who's taken the time to vote and to comment here and to offer suggestions. It's been very instructive.

I would love a sort of Rotten Tomatoes rating system on stories here but I don't know how feasible that would be. Besides the work it would take to program that, (far above my talents and paygrade) the early mathmatical results could skew the response. The first person not liking a story would give it a 0% rating or one person liking it would give it a 100% rating. And that would unfairly affect the decision to read or not. Not sure how the RT site handles that issue. In any case, If we could have a rating system it might encourage more readers to dip a toe.

We moderators are considering merging the Dungeon section in with the regular story section with perhaps some sort of guidance system put in place. An honor system perhaps by writers declaring their content upfront along guidelines the membership could help formulate, ie SC for Softcore, HC for Hardcore or, If that's too nebulous, then a more specific designation for sexual acts; something akin to the list of elements producers list for their videos. Such designations might have to be listed by chapter for those who write longer stories and don't know the content ahead of time.

What do people think?
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Speaking for myself.first of all, prefer if writers would continue or complete their stories and not let them hang unfinished especially after the reader gotten into it.

Now as for feedback and ratings, I try and give my opinions on a story. I don't always say one sentence response but sometimes I don't have a lot to say. I know some like a critique of the story itself and I do try.

I love stories that have mind control or seduction in it. Not crazy about the heroine being killed in the end though. I would love to read a Stockholm Syndrome one day. Or maybe a heroine is a secret submissive and either a hypnotist or a villain brings it out of her.
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While I do want a ratings system I suspect the most we are going to get is a single x-stars rating. It will be an easy system for readers to use and pretty easy to comprehend when selecting a story to read. The danger in this system however is when readers rate something that wasn't for them. Someone who is into pure sexual peril might rate a well crafted hypno-control story as zero - no matter how great it was written because it might not have enough sexual content. And so, that leads us into making sure we have a template to adequately describe our stories and which is searchable so that reader and story are best matched up. I think it would be unwise to have the former system without the latter.
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tallyho wrote:
5 years ago
Hey if I could read stories in the time it takes to write these posts then I would have.
My point was pay WHAT forward as the vast majority of commenters ARE fellow WRITERS so we are ALREADY paying it forward to each other (as I stated earlier) and I and most other writers always post on what we have read (again as I stated earlier)
I see what you did there. Suggesting that I must have meant some mysterious more than WHAT=FEEDBACK, becuase OMG you guys are already doing absolutely everything you could be expected to do and more in terms of giving others feedback. So clearly if all I mean is WHAT=FEEDBACK then I'm being stupid/unreasonable to suggest you just do more of that.

Tally, what you're painting here is the picture that in your mind writers are aggrieved by readers, and the only remedy is for readers to stop being lazy. Look at the way you get defensive about every suggestion that you might take more/different action to address writers' frustration. Nope, it's all the readers' fault. Readers will pick up on that. It's not a good look. And I'm tired of trying to nudge you toward showing a sliver of contrition or sympathy for readers, or toward making the smart PR move of backing away from calling readers lazy, only for you to keep digging.

Let's try this one last time: connect your feeling of frustration at not getting feedback to the action of giving feedback. If you're still frustrated, ask yourself if you've missed some way to work smarter -- to take different action, as opposed to wishing others acted differently. I'm telling you the picture you've painted with the (wrong) L word isn't smarter. I'm telling you that in my experience the attitude that writers are being aggrieved by readers is unhealthy and unproductive for you and you should find another way to process your frustration, because every creative person ever has felt unappreciated. That's the gig, and I encourage you to get right with it.

Sympathy is an amazing and underutilized tool.
Insanity is trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
May you change what you can, accept what you can't, and have the wisdom to know the difference.

I love you, man.

-----

Perhaps the count of Thanks/Likes on the first post of a topic (or if easier the count of Thanks/Likes in the topic) could be exposed on the topic summary page. Then readers would benefit from each others' clicking Thanks/Like on stories they like, at least as much as it's a better indication of popularity than the topic hit count. This might be an easier way to float some kind of rating.

Writers might also look to more general fanfiction/erotica content coding conventions and voluntarily adopt them into the top of their first post in their story thread -- or owing to the specificity of SHIP, just work out a set of SHIP-specific codes. Now, if you just put the codes naked, the board can't search for them separate from general text... so the community would need to agree on a convention for tagging that creates unique strings unlikely to occur in ordinary posts, e.g. storyrating:PG13 storytype:serial status:InProgress character:original character:GrapeAvenger content:bondage content:debooting content:barelegs. It might even be possible to code the forum software to look for the storyrating: tag and float that up to the topic summary page. And someone clever might put up a webpage with a bunch of checkboxes of standard codes that generates a copypastable formatted list so writers don't have to do it by hand.
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I think Abductorenmadrid and others hit the nail in the head with the problem with a single rating system. The biggest problem with "good/bad" ratings on a site like this is that so many of us have very niche tastes in this genre. It would be more helpful (to me at least) to program a system where first the author rates his own story in a few categories (such as degree of sexual content, from none to hardcore). Readers could then give their opinions on where the story falls in those categories. Certainly an overall rating would help, too, but the informative ratings would help more.

I’m no coder, but I’m half tempted to dust off my Drupal or Joomla chops, although if I had time for that I’d be spending it reading more stories here.
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I'm not being defensive I am asking what action we can take to give feedback if we haven't read the stories.

As I have stated I dont have much free time -if I read stories, I do not have time to write them and I want to write
If your solution is to read more and leave more feedback myself in order to possibly get more feedback on my own stories it clearly isnt going to work as if I am reading more I am writing less

Writers are already the ones leaving most feedback (perhaps not me but certainly others) and their work is still ignored.

I just don't see how you can blame writers for readers not posting that's all I'm saying
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Who's to blame? That's the wrong question.

And again you're being defensive about your own behavior, and looping in the group as reinforcement. You say you can't possibly read because that would take away from writing, and in so doing you imply that writing is the only thing you're doing with your free time, which is pretty ironic in a post you're making with your free time.

But even if you do steal time from writing to read someone else's story, and consider it critically, and decide how much of that critique you should write up and send to the writer, and choose what words of encouragement to use, that will help you write better. Pick someone who seems to need it, or just pick something that seems the most manageable. If you won't do it for others, do it for yourself.

What can you do to effect change? That's the right question.

Now kindly stop stealing from my writing time by forcing me to continue doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I mean, I like you, but where is this relationship even going? --I am not "making a scene!"
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Imagineer, I really don't understand your focus on Tally here and I cannot fathom why you feel that on the great scales it is Tally's side that is found lacking. You seem to think that some kind of writer's circle-jerk-comment-fest where writers (and for some reason, Tally) all should pat each other on the back and say "well done" and that this will somehow be rewarding. I will be quite darned well blunt here and oh ... spoiler alert ... IT AIN'T!

Time after time I get comments from a select few writers on my stories, and sure, they might like what I've written, but, if they've been behind the scenes encouraging me to fill out my story, or to just go that extra mile to make a plot or scene work, it kind of takes away any sensation of independent validation of the work. Am I grateful for it? Sure! But deep down I'd prefer someone independent to say something. If you wrote your thesis and your supervisor was the only one to say "well done", well, it's a bit hollow, right? And if we writers were the only ones commenting in the end wouldn't you just end up wondering "well, he only said that because I said something nice about their SuperSpider V Strangle-gasm : The Choke Academy". That would not be a rewarding sensation at all.

Imagineer and Tally aside I think I hear a sort of consensus building in the dialogue of the thread. I am sensing that the readers want to be able to find what they want. Else, they can't be expected to just spam negativity everywhere they find stuff they don't like. In exchange for that and being able to filter out the stuff they don't want readers might be prepared to rate or feedback on a story that they wanted to read.
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Its ok everyone I don't consider this an argument though it may look it on the outside.
All still friends and exchanging opinions is what a forum is for (well technically goods and opinions back in Roman times but I got nothing to sell...EXCEPT-! No I will put it on ebay.)

We shall park our different opinions like gentlemen

On the matter at hand I think any content system would need approval from those writing here regularly and the readership of course so does anyone have any notions on what was mentioned earlier - soft core/ hard core (a no core? for peril only? lol)
Or indeed any practical suggestions for it?

If we have a few ideas mooted Doc may decide to set up a new thread on this in due course
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I have no idea if this is even possible, but some kind of tag or flair system that appears on the topics themselves. It might not be able to do this as a mechanic, but maybe moderators can enforce it from people posting stories. So I'd have to put into my title:

"Wonder Woman: Chains of Slumber" [chloroforming; energy drain; bondage; soft-core]"

Maybe mods can sticky a list of tags, or rely on people to be sensible enough to advertise their own elements.
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I'm fine if ratings are a no go. Was just a thought. Works for Netflix, but they use involved AI programming that's continually maintained.

How about promotion?

We have a whole subforum where videomakers who have made superheroine videos promote their releases. Why? Cause they want potential buyers to buy and view those releases. So they advertise with just the right amount of tease they think will work.

Do writers actually want readers to read their stories? What about something like the blurbs on book covers, some text about what's inside, some pithy quotes of praise from notable members. Some smidgen of extra info besides a title and expecting potential readers to think "Yep, that's for me."

or how about just one person saying something like (where us potential readers can see it)...
I've read about 12 stories here and my favorite one is this...
"The Irresistible Superheroine Title Match" by Giftedwriter
...if your specifically into a stunning superheroine encountering sexual peril that's humiliating, somewhat painful and may actually surprise you.
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Abductorenmadrid wrote:
5 years ago
Imagineer, I really don't understand your focus on Tally here
He called readers lazy. Was I too subtle?
and I cannot fathom why you feel that on the great scales it is Tally's side that is found lacking.
Are my posts going through some kind of bad language translation filter? There are no scales. Change what you can, accept what you can't, know which is which; honey > vinegar. *taps microphone* is this thing on?
You seem to think
Do I need to quote myself? Well, I'm not gonna. Just re-read my last post and try again. Or don't.

---

I humbly suggest sorting out some coding/tagging/searching convention, and a way for moderators/volunteers to submit codes to a TOC/index post for older stories from inactive writers so they're not lost, before setting up a new promotional blurb sub-forum. Not that blurbs have no value, but it's another skill set -- figuring out which codes to apply to your story is probably quicker and easier -- and I suspect readers want data more than marketing at this point. Look at the replies to video producers' threads asking specific questions about the content. Indeed, a clever coding convention would be adoptable by both video producers and writers... see above... not that I think I'm clever, but... okay yeah I think I'm pretty clever sometimes.

Of course, writers can put a blurb at the top of their story thread; some already do. And prominent members (or anyone who wants to share their opinion) could always just decide to write a post in the Bar with a title like "My favorite stories" or "You might also like..." and go to town with recommendations...
GeekyPornCritic

theScribbler wrote:
5 years ago
I've read about 12 stories here and my favorite one is this...
"The Irresistible Superheroine Title Match" by Giftedwriter
...if your specifically into a stunning superheroine encountering sexual peril that's humiliating, somewhat painful and may actually surprise you.
Do you have the link for "The Irresistible Superheroine Title Match"? I can't find it nor Giftedwriter.
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I do not know whether this would be a good idea or not but how about creating a separate story referral section where people can recommend stories and people can make their case for why one should read a particular story. Either that or have someone start a new topic on story referrals.
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