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Wasn't he played by John Travolta in 'Get Shorty'?lionbadger wrote: ... in the meantime (from Chillyplasma of deviantart fame)
No, c'mon chap, like 6 times we've had this discussion. He was the one that is played by Ray Liotta in Revolver.tallyho wrote:
Wasn't he played by John Travolta in 'Get Shorty'?
I'll take that bet sir!Mr. X wrote:You will NOT get a skin tight outfit no matter what so its a waste thinking that's what will happen. You will see NO cleavage. You will see NO legs. Heck you may not even get an actress who remotely fits the body shape. You will get a baggy suit with no curve and belts and floppy sleeves.
Sexiness is subjective. Your own Ms Americana character wears an extremely skimpy bikini, in line with your own preference for plenty of skin and very little fabric.Mr. X wrote:Take a look at Black Widow's outfit in each movie. How sexy were they? Given the number of times Evans and Hemingsworth went shirtless show me the same number of times any Marvel women in the current movies wore anything revealing any level or erotic skin? Swim suits? Bikinis? Anything?
You ain't going to get jack squat. You'll get some bony so called pretty girl you will then be guilted into liking cause if you don't you're a sexist pig. You will be told what woman you will like.
Sure everything is everything else and when all the colors are the same you only need one crayon in the box.Heroine Addict wrote: Sexiness is subjective. Your own Ms Americana character wears an extremely skimpy bikini, in line with your own preference for plenty of skin and very little fabric.
I personally find Black Widow and Catwoman far sexier and they have hardly any skin on show.
So I guess in your opinion Sexiness is NOT subjective then?Mr. X wrote:Sure everything is everything else and when all the colors are the same you only need one crayon in the box.Heroine Addict wrote: Sexiness is subjective. Your own Ms Americana character wears an extremely skimpy bikini, in line with your own preference for plenty of skin and very little fabric.
I personally find Black Widow and Catwoman far sexier and they have hardly any skin on show.
The thing to bear in mind is that they're not making these films to tickle your giblets, or anybody else's really. They're movies for kids who like the comic book characters, who may but usually don't read the comics, and certainly didn't read them back in the day. Let the porn be porn, not like there isn't plenty of it, and let the mainstream movies be mainstream movies.Mr. X wrote:And how did scarlet witch work out?
Really then why do Evans, Hemsworth etc take their shirts off. Who are they "tickling"? Seems pretty one sided to me. Seems like women got 6 good looking guys in Avengers. Hemsworth, Evans, Downey, Ruffalo, Renner and Hiddleston.Dogfish wrote: The thing to bear in mind is that they're not making these films to tickle your giblets, or anybody else's really.
Hell if you want to argue there should be a hell of a lot more female characters in these things I'm right with you. I think if The Avengers wasn't a big bunch of dudes and one woman, with occasional other women drifting around the periphery, then there would be a much greater chance of some sort of hotness occuring in it. But it is what it is, the female characters are so undervalued they don't even make Black Widow action figures.Mr. X wrote:Really then why do Evans, Hemsworth etc take their shirts off. Who are they "tickling"? Seems pretty one sided to me. Seems like women got 6 good looking guys in Avengers. Hemsworth, Evans, Downey, Ruffalo, Renner and Hiddleston.Dogfish wrote: The thing to bear in mind is that they're not making these films to tickle your giblets, or anybody else's really.
Like I said. MEN aren't going to get jack out of a Ms. Marvel movie.
Dogfish wrote:
End of the day though you really can't pin this whole mess on Hollywood pandering to women instead of men when literally all the movies they make are about male characters with women relegated almost entirely out of the picture. Most women I know would be much happier to see a female lead superhero movie franchise than yet another shirtless man in yet another cookiecutter action flick.
<<- "We needs us some women, we Marvel smilies are a lonely group. :( "
Well, the body type you personally present in your work exists almost exclusively in porn. Or rather a particular sub-genre of porn for men who fetishize humongous breasts. In terms of shape, the closest mainstream equivalent I can find to Ms Americana is Pamela Anderson. Although even she seems relatively flat-chested in comparison to Americana's beach balls. And her attempt at a superheroine movie (Barb Wire) was a massive flop.Mr. X wrote: Sure everything is everything else and when all the colors are the same you only need one crayon in the box.
Not as Hollywood sees it, no. The current Hollywood mindset is guys want to see guys, and women get to see guys with their shirts off (because even if they want to see female characters, apparently that's not allowed). I don't make the rules, that just seems to be how Hollywood wants to play it. I mean come on, we're in the middle of the biggest superhero movie craze in cinema history and we've seen Ant Man, dog knows how many Spiderman, Hulk and Superman reboots, two more or less identical Fantastic Four origin story movies and how many Wonder Woman movies? None. And even when she's in a movie she's an afterthought to two male heroes.Mr. X wrote:Dogfish wrote:
End of the day though you really can't pin this whole mess on Hollywood pandering to women instead of men when literally all the movies they make are about male characters with women relegated almost entirely out of the picture. Most women I know would be much happier to see a female lead superhero movie franchise than yet another shirtless man in yet another cookiecutter action flick.
So if Hollywood made a movie with say 6 hot chics and one dude that wouldn't be a movie for guys?
To clarify, they make the collectable figures of Black Widow and so on, but the toy sets for kids, the rough and tumble toys that get chewed on, thrown around, microwaved and whatever, there's no Black Widow there, least there wasn't when the toys for all the others launched.theScribbler wrote:A
I googled black widow action figure. They do make some. I wonder how they sell compared to the male characters. Guess I'll go google that now.
Sexual exploitation. Time for this to stop. Destroy my naughty fun and I destroy womens naughty fun. Apply the rule on me and it applies to everyone. If men cannot have naughty fun then neither can women.A male actor will take his shirt off cause it's not a big deal for a guy to take his shirt off. Men have been topless in movies since like the 40's,
This isn't necessarily true. Hollywood doesn't care about exploitation, it doesn't care about furthering agendas, it doesn't care about racism or sexism. The Actors might, producer's might, directors might, the individuals care about a vast majority of things that Hollywood does not. Hollywood is a corporation and its only goal is to make more money. To this end they do a huge amount of market research that typically has lead them to believe that men want movies about men and wont buy into the idea of female action heroes, and lose money on them. They also have a huge female audience (go figure) and the research suggests that women become annoyed at over sexualized portrayals of women and don't see movies because of this. It's annoying yes, and maybe not even completely true which is what makes actions like pushing back Captain Marvel (the first announced female lead superhero film ever) in favor of the half step 'Antman & the Wasp' a strange marketing move, that Marvel must nevertheless believe will lead to them to a better cash intake.Dogfish wrote:Not as Hollywood sees it, no. The current Hollywood mindset is guys want to see guys, and women get to see guys with their shirts off (because even if they want to see female characters, apparently that's not allowed). I don't make the rules, that just seems to be how Hollywood wants to play it. I mean come on, we're in the middle of the biggest superhero movie craze in cinema history and we've seen Ant Man, dog knows how many Spiderman, Hulk and Superman reboots, two more or less identical Fantastic Four origin story movies and how many Wonder Woman movies? None. And even when she's in a movie she's an afterthought to two male heroes.Mr. X wrote:Dogfish wrote:
End of the day though you really can't pin this whole mess on Hollywood pandering to women instead of men when literally all the movies they make are about male characters with women relegated almost entirely out of the picture. Most women I know would be much happier to see a female lead superhero movie franchise than yet another shirtless man in yet another cookiecutter action flick.
So if Hollywood made a movie with say 6 hot chics and one dude that wouldn't be a movie for guys?
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or anything, but there fact is that Hollywood doesn't want to put superheroines on screen and it sure as shit doesn't want to make movies predominantly about superheroines. I have no idea why, but it is what it is, clearly. Maybe the guys picking up the movies just don't like them I dunno.
So I'd say that might be the problem here. Until Hollywood puts women in these movies you're not going to see them, and questions of costume are therefore moot.
It's not sexual exploitation (men without shirts), nothing naughty about it. But Re: naughty fun, there's plenty of female nudity and various states of undress in movies and TV shows for adults (like 'the Wolf of Wall Street' and many others), and tons and tons and gobs and gobs of it easily available at this new place you may have heard about called the internet.Mr. X wrote:Sexual exploitation. Time for this to stop. Destroy my naughty fun and I destroy womens naughty fun. Apply the rule on me and it applies to everyone. If men cannot have naughty fun then neither can women.A male actor will take his shirt off cause it's not a big deal for a guy to take his shirt off. Men have been topless in movies since like the 40's,
Stop being an angel wing earner and don't throw me on the fire.
Of course. That's why porn parodies have a market. And have been made since who knows how long, before the internet. Heck, I was drawing nude/partial nudes of female movie and TV characters for myself as a youngster before I'd seen any porn.Omega Woman wrote:My two cents:
Am I the only one who derives extra satisfaction from the superheroine fetish/porn community *because* I know that it's nothing like the mainstream? 99% (maybe 100%) of the material here is meant to be a parody (affectionate or otherwise) of the superhero genre, so I'm not that hung up about how "mainstream" heroines are more conservatively dressed, etc.
They have an appeal? Not for me. Just proves we all have our tastes.Omega Woman wrote:(To be honest, the appeal of Ms Americana and Mr. X's other creations, for me, isn't direct sexiness, but how foolish and undignified most of the heroines look with those gigantic racks and exaggerated expressions.)
i see. Well, they have some now.Dogfish wrote:To clarify, they make the collectable figures of Black Widow and so on, but the toy sets for kids, the rough and tumble toys that get chewed on, thrown around, microwaved and whatever, there's no Black Widow there, least there wasn't when the toys for all the others launched.theScribbler wrote:A
I googled black widow action figure. They do make some. I wonder how they sell compared to the male characters. Guess I'll go google that now.
Wasn't aware of that sub-genre, never searched for it. Not the porn I'd choose to watch.Heroine Addict wrote:Well, the body type you personally present in your work exists almost exclusively in porn. Or rather a particular sub-genre of porn for men who fetishize humongous breasts.Mr. X wrote: Sure everything is everything else and when all the colors are the same you only need one crayon in the box.
No way! Pamela Anderson is way hotter than that thing! I actually liked Pamela in Barb Wire, but yeah, I guess the movie didn't do well. I do have the DVD around here somewheres.Heroine Addict wrote:In terms of shape, the closest mainstream equivalent I can find to Ms Americana is Pamela Anderson. Although even she seems relatively flat-chested in comparison to Americana's beach balls. And her attempt at a superheroine movie (Barb Wire) was a massive flop.
Yep to all that. (Although I really don't know the stats on muscle-bound men v absolutely huge tits.)Heroine Addict wrote:Musclebound men are far more common in society than women with absolutely huge tits. The latter are usually surgically enhanced specifically for work in the porn industry.
Muscles serve a practical purpose beyond titillation. Massive tits do not. (Unless they're genuine and the storyline calls for excessive feeding of offspring. Which is unlikely.) As The Scribbler points out, male toplessness has never been taboo. Flash Gordon and Tarzan were baring their chests on film (while Dale and Jane stayed dressed) long before the age of feminism.
Personally, I don't find unusually large breasts and incredibly skimpy costumes appealing. But that doesn't mean I've been "guilt shamed" by feminists into preferring the look of Anne Hathaway or Scarlett Johansson. It just means that my preferences differ from yours.
These may have something to do with it...Dogfish wrote: ...
I'm not saying it's a conspiracy or anything, but there fact is that Hollywood doesn't want to put superheroines on screen and it sure as shit doesn't want to make movies predominantly about superheroines. I have no idea why, but it is what it is, clearly. Maybe the guys picking up the movies just don't like them I dunno.
...
Your absolutely rightDogfish wrote:The thing is though they greenlight shitloads of movies that bomb with male leads (for example all the Punisher movies, Ang Lee's Hulk effort, some of the Spidermans, all the recent Superman movies etc etc) but they've never said, "Well damn, best try something else."
Kate Beckinsale in Underworld is another example. They even brought her back after trying to continue the series without her.lionbadger wrote:Resident evil is a good example of a money making superheroine film.
Plus Mila Jovich would make a good captain marvel.
