Living in the shadow of the corona virus

Where derailed topics go to ....live?
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theScribbler
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
At the risk of being redundant, I'm going to say it again. Just don't engage with Mr. X and Dazzle. Why invest the time in doing a point by point refutation of the unhinged stuff they post? You're not going to change their minds and they'll just come back with even more unhinged arguments in response. Don't feed the trolls.
I suppose. But not a lot of Superheroine talk going on in forum, and we're at like 16 pages here!

Edit: 17 pages now!
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
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bushwackerbob
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Damselbinder wrote:
3 years ago
bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
Damselbinder wrote:
3 years ago
bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
five_red wrote:
3 years ago


Sorry, I assumed it was obvious. They bickered so much that they ran out of time and needed something quick before year's end, so piggy backing on the existing Christmas tree bill was the best available option to get everything through.

As Von Bismarck once said, "politics is the art of the possible, the attainable, the art of the next best."

R5
Sorry I misunderstood you. Could they not have weeks or months ago agreed on a standalone bill on COVID and then dealt with the separate issue of Christmas tree gimmies now and not have the two issues entertwined? This is what I mean when I say that the politicians from both parties in Washington unnecessarily complicate things.
Everyone wants peace. So why is there war? Because people can't agree on the terms. Which party you think is more responsible for the deadlock will depend on your political affiliations. So I'd be more likely to blame the Republicans, because I think what they wanted out of the bill was irrational and absurd. But obviously, like, if I'm wrong... then I'm wrong.
My suspicion is that both parties sent us down this road, bickering, negotiating, that both sides wanted these delays so that at the end of the year they could hide these gimmies and goodies and tax breaks in the Christmas tree bill and comingle these goodies among the auspices of COVID relief with barely 5 hours to read over 5000 pages. As far as I am concerned, The Democrats and Republicans are co-conspirators in this debacle. Delay, delay, delay, until, oops! We are running out of time. This is fake and contrived just like wrestling, fake back and forth negotiations and wars of words because both sides knew the end game was we are all out of time and we have to shovel this horse shit down the taxpayers throats just before the end of session and both sides played their parts accordingly like it was some kind of dance, all at taxpayers expense. Both sides are complicit in this mess.
While I don't concur that both sides are equally complicit, that's certainly within the grounds of genuine disagreement. What I'm interested in is why you think the two sides are co-conspirators. As creaky as the machinery of state are, do you not think the two sides have genuinely incompatible ideological commitments?
Good question sir. While I certainly agree with you that both sides have genuinely incompatible ideological commitments, I think in certain cases where both parties might both benefit from Washington procedural shenanigans, that they have the ability to work together when their mutual interests intersect with each other. I know we are in this age of uber-politicized partisanship, but I think a lot of people would be surprised at how much the two sides actually work together behind the scenes, especially if they have common goals or interests. Partners in crime to a certain degree.
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theScribbler
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bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
...Could they not have weeks or months ago agreed on a standalone bill on COVID and then dealt with the separate issue of Christmas tree gimmies now and not have the two issues entertwined?...
Sure, but :turtle: Moscow Mitch didn't want to. After both houses passed the CARES act way back in March 2020, :turtle: Moscow Mitch refused to move on anymore Covid relief. He said not gonna take up even discussing HEROES act (May 2020) passed by House or the less costly HEROES act version 2 (Oct 1 2020) passed by House.

:turtle: Moscow Mitch is the grimreaper. He said so himself. He only cares about doing stuff in the Senate he has total control over: confirming extreme right wing judges no matter how unqualified, getting GOP senators to vote against having witnesses in impeachment trial, and then voting against the Senate impeaching :elephant: Trump.

wikipedia:
'On January 31, a majority of 51 senators (all Republicans) voted against allowing subpoenas to call witnesses or documents. On February 5, the Senate acquitted :elephant: Trump on both impeachment articles, as neither article obtained the support of a two-thirds supermajority of senators.'

Curious: how many people see this --> :turtle: emoji? (as it's not an official superheroineforum smilie/emoji)
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
bushwackerbob
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Cocaine Mitch is certainly complicit, but it takes two sides to tango.
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tallyho
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I see a little green tortoise if that's what you posted Scribbler.
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Just for reference.
The Consolidated Appropriations Act,2021 is 5593 pages.
Part of it includes Covid Relief at a tune of $900 Billion
The rest of the bill involves other gov spending of $1400 Billion or $1.4 Trillion. A lot of this non-covid stuff has been worked on by various Appropriation Commitees over the whole year, they didn't just figure this stuff out now, and add it to a Covid Relief Bill. Congress paired the Covid Relief portions to this, they always to do this Appropriations stuff to fund government every year. (Occasionally they don't, and there's a gov shutdown.)

That said, government is notorious for last minute type changes to almost every bill.

note: I color coded the lines that mention covid or pandemic, or health, for easy spotting.
_____
Consolidated Appropriations Act,2021

SEC. 2. TABLE OF CONTENTS.

Sec. 1. Short title.
Sec. 2. Table of contents.
Sec. 3. References.
Sec. 4. Explanatory statement.
Sec. 5. Statement of appropriations.
Sec. 6. Availability of funds.
Sec. 7. Adjustments to compensation.
Sec. 8. Definition.
Sec. 9. Office of Management and Budget Reporting Requirement.

DIVISION A—AGRICULTURE, RURAL DEVELOPMENT, FOOD AND
DRUG ADMINISTRATION, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Agricultural Programs
Title II—Farm Production and Conservation Programs
Title III—Rural Development Programs
Title IV—Domestic Food Programs
Title V—Foreign Assistance and Related Programs
Title VI—Related Agency and Food and Drug Administration
Title VII—General Provisions

DIVISION B—COMMERCE, JUSTICE, SCIENCE, AND RELATED
AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of Commerce
Title II—Department of Justice
Title III—Science
Title IV—Related Agencies
Title V—General Provisions

DIVISION C—DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE APPROPRIATIONS ACT,
2021
Title I—Military Personnel
Title II—Operation and Maintenance
Title III—Procurement
Title IV—Research, Development, Test and Evaluation
Title V—Revolving and Management Funds
Title VI—Other Department of Defense Programs
Title VII—Related Agencies
Title VIII—General Provisions
Title IX—Overseas Contingency Operations

DIVISION D—ENERGY AND WATER DEVELOPMENT AND RELATED
AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Corps of Engineers—Civil
Title II—Department of the Interior
Title III—Department of Energy
Title IV—Independent Agencies
Title V—General Provisions

DIVISION E—FINANCIAL SERVICES AND GENERAL GOVERNMENT
APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of the Treasury
Title II—Executive Office of the President and Funds Appropriated to the
President
Title III—The Judiciary
Title IV—District of Columbia
Title V—Independent Agencies
Title VI—General Provisions—This Act
Title VII—General Provisions—Government-wide
Title VIII—General Provisions—District of Columbia
Title IX—General Provision—Emergency Funding

DIVISION F—DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY
APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Departmental Management, Operations, Intelligence, and Oversight
Title II—Security, Enforcement, and Investigations
Title III—Protection, Preparedness, Response, and Recovery
Title IV—Research, Development, Training, and Services
Title V—General Provisions

DIVISION G—DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR, ENVIRONMENT,
AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of the Interior
Title II—Environmental Protection Agency
Title III—Related Agencies
Title IV—General Provisions

DIVISION H—DEPARTMENTS OF LABOR, HEALTH AND HUMAN
SERVICES, AND EDUCATION, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of Labor
Title II—Department of Health and Human Services
Title III—Department of Education
Title IV—Related Agencies
Title V—General Provisions

DIVISION I—LEGISLATIVE BRANCH APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Legislative Branch
Title II—General Provisions

DIVISION J—MILITARY CONSTRUCTION, VETERANS AFFAIRS, AND
RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of Defense
Title II—Department of Veterans Affairs
Title III—Related Agencies
Title IV—Overseas Contingency Operations
Title V—General Provisions

DIVISION K—DEPARTMENT OF STATE, FOREIGN OPERATIONS,
AND RELATED PROGRAMS APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of State and Related Agency
Title II—United States Agency for International Development
Title III—Bilateral Economic Assistance
Title IV—International Security Assistance
Title V—Multilateral Assistance
Title VI—Export and Investment Assistance
Title VII—General Provisions
Title VIII—Nita M. Lowey Middle East Partnership for Peace Act of 2020
Title IX—Emergency Funding and Other Matters

DIVISION L—TRANSPORTATION, HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT, AND RELATED AGENCIES APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
Title I—Department of Transportation
Title II—Department of Housing and Urban Development
Title III—Related Agencies
Title IV—General Provisions—This Act

DIVISION M—CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE AND RELIEF
SUPPLEMENTAL APPROPRIATIONS ACT, 2021
[about 100 pages]

DIVISION N—ADDITIONAL CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE AND RELIEF
[about 544 pages]


DIVISION O—EXTENSIONS AND TECHNICAL CORRECTIONS
Title I—Immigration Extensions
Title II—Commission on Black Men and Boys Corrections
Title III—U.S. Customs and Border Protection Authority to Accept Donations
Extension
Title IV—Livestock Mandatory Reporting Extension
Title V—Soil Health and Income Protection Pilot Program Extension
Title VI—United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement Implementation Act Technical Corrections
Title VII—Deputy Architect of the Capitol Amendments
Title VIII—Pandemic Response Accountability Committee Amendments
Title IX—Adjustment of Status for Liberian Nationals Extension
Title X—Clean Up the Code Act of 2019
Title XI—Amendments to Provisions Relating to Child Care Centers
Title XII—Alaska Natives Extension
Title XIII— Open Technology Fund Opportunity to Contest Proposed Debarment
Title XIV—Budgetary Effects

DIVISION P—NATIONAL BIO AND AGRO-DEFENSE FACILITY ACT
OF 2020

DIVISION Q—FINANCIAL SERVICES PROVISIONS AND
INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY

DIVISION R—PROTECTING OUR INFRASTRUCTURE OF PIPELINES
AND ENHANCING SAFETY ACT OF 2020

DIVISION S—INNOVATION FOR THE ENVIRONMENT

DIVISION T—SMITHSONIAN AMERICAN WOMEN’S HISTORY MUSEUM ACT AND NATIONAL MUSEUM OF THE AMERICAN
LATINO

DIVISION U—HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL
AFFAIRS PROVISIONS

DIVISION V—AIRCRAFT CERTIFICATION, SAFETY, AND
ACCOUNTABILITY

DIVISION W—INTELLIGENCE AUTHORIZATION ACT FOR FISCAL
YEAR 2021

DIVISION X—SUPPORTING FOSTER YOUTH AND FAMILIES
THROUGH THE PANDEMIC

DIVISION Y—AMERICAN MINER BENEFITS IMPROVEMENT

DIVISION Z—ENERGY ACT OF 2020

DIVISION AA—WATER RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 2020

DIVISION BB—PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE AND PUBLIC
HEALTH PROVISIONS

DIVISION CC—HEALTH EXTENDERS


DIVISION DD—MONTANA WATER RIGHTS PROTECTION ACT

DIVISION EE—TAXPAYER CERTAINTY AND DISASTER TAX
RELIEF ACT OF 2020

DIVISION FF—OTHER MATTER
Title I—Continuing Education at Affected Foreign Institutions and Modification
of Certain Protections for Taxpayer Return Information
Title II—Public Lands
Title III—Foreign Relations and Department of State Provisions
Title IV—Senate Sergeant at Arms Cloud Services
Title V— Repeal of Requirement to Sell Certain Federal Property in Plum Island, New York
Title VI— Preventing Online Sales of E-Cigarettes to Children
Title VII—FAFSA Simplification
Title VIII—Access to Death Information Furnished to or Maintained by the Social Security Administration
Title IX—Telecommunications and Consumer Protection
Title X—Bankruptcy Relief
Title XI—Western Water and Indian Affairs
Title XII—Horseracing Integrity and Safety
Title XIII—Community Development Block Grants
Title XIV—COVID–19 Consumer Protection Act
Title XV—American COMPETE Act
Title XVI—Recording of Obligations
Title XVII—Sudan Claims Resolution
Title XVIII—Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library Conveyance Act of 2020
Title XIX—United States-Mexico Economic Partnership Act
Title XX—Consumer Product Safety Commission Port Surveillance
Title XXI—COVID–19 Regulatory Relief and Work From Home Safety Act

_____
Last edited by theScribbler 3 years ago, edited 1 time in total.
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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theScribbler
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bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
Cocaine Mitch is certainly complicit, but it takes two sides to tango.
It takes two sides to negotiate, compromise and finally come to an agreement.

It only took :turtle: Moscow Mitch to block the two HEROES Covid Relief bills passed by the House from helping anyone who needed what they would've provided in May 2020, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov and early Dec 2020.

But we have something now in late Dec 2020, way below what's really needed, but it's something.
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
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tallyho
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I was so tempted to finish that post of mine with "Scaramouche, Scaramouche, do you do the fandango.?"
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bushwackerbob
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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
Cocaine Mitch is certainly complicit, but it takes two sides to tango.
It takes two sides to negotiate, compromise and finally come to an agreement.

It only took :turtle: Moscow Mitch to block the two HEROES Covid Relief bills passed by the House from helping anyone who needed what they would've provided in May 2020, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov and early Dec 2020.

But we have something now in late Dec 2020, way below what's really needed, but it's something.
If I were to tell you that a COVID relief bill allocated $350 Million to the 50 richest communities in America, you would think it was Cocaine Mitch's idea, right? WRONG! Nancy Pelosi's gang was responsible for that mess. The average income for those communities was between $262,988 and $525,324. So much for allocating that money for communities that need it the most. That COVID relief bill was to bail out states that had incompetent fiscal leadership and fix their pre COVID state's financial woes, not help ordinary people. I imagine that a lot of that money would have gone to fund some of these bankrupt pension programs that the state ripped off from before the pandemic. The goal of a COVID relief bill should be to help those that have been economically harmed by COVID, not be a government sponsored fairy godmother benefactor and fix problems that existed pre COVID-19. That is not what the money is for!
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Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
They do it all the time and the US meddles in foreign elections all the time. And what's illegal? Contributing money? Hillary got millions from the Saudis. Memes? Nothing illegal about that. Paying for ads? Promoting a candidate on RT? What was "illegal". And spare me the "go read the Mueller report, I have. Its vague and it also says Bernie Sanders benefited.

Plenty of wacka-doodle conspiracy theories to go around. At least the birthers didn't have the fed waste MILLIONS on a giant nothing burger.

Voila
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Unit ... ontroversy
https://www.mintpressnews.com/saudi-cro ... gn/217172/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 70481.html

Yes it happens ALL THE TIME in EVERY ELECTION.

Stating something that is ALWAYS true making it ALWAYS redundant is not an argument.
Quoted from the Saudi link you posted (an incredibly reputable source) :
"It is illegal in the U.S. for presidential candidates to accept funding from foreign governments, but Saudi Arabia and Clinton are no strangers to exchanging favors."

The Saudis made donations to The Clinton Foundation, a charity that the Clinton's run to fund economic development in poor areas of the US and around the world. The donations did not go to any political campaign to benefit Clinton directly. While it is certainly concerning that there may be potential conflicts of interest with foreign countries funding a charity connected to a presidential candidate, it should be pointed out that foreign governments and companies funded Trump companies (stayed at Trump hotels, held functions at Trump venues) that benefited Trump and his family's bank balance directly. And they did so right the way through his presidential term.

Neither position is desirable. Clinton should have separated herself from her charity once she accepted, or ran for, any public office, and Trump should have likewise got rid of his companies. If the Saudis had given the money to Clinton's political campaign, it would have been illegal, and Fox News would not have spent 2016 having to rely on the hypothetical contents of some deleted emails to call for Clinton to be locked up, they would have had a more powerful case.

On the other point: the large superpower countries have, for decades, operated a policy of hypocracy when it comes to interference in foreign politics - - under both Republicans and Democrats the US has touted the sacredness of its own politics, while happily secretly interfering with the domestic affairs of smaller countries. Generally speaking, however, none of the superpowers interfered with other democracies. They'd target dictatorships (no matter how popular the dictator was with their own people) but they tended to avoid messing with other countries with stable and mature elections, for fear of opening a Pandora's box that would rebound on them. Putin, however, has changed this. He saw a way to use the relaxed rules America's own social media companies have to 'user geneated content' as a means to interfere, but in a way that still gave Russia plausible denyability.

So the issue becomes this: (acknowledging that America is somewhat guilty of hypocracy when it comes to interfering in other countries... ) who decides the American elections, the US public or foreign governments? Should we take Trump line, claim that Russian interference is just a fact of life, no big deal, and not worth resisting? Or should we take the Biden line, that US elections should be decided by US voters only, and any interference should be denounced and resisted in the strongest terms?

R5
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theScribbler
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bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
bushwackerbob wrote:
3 years ago
Cocaine Mitch is certainly complicit, but it takes two sides to tango.
It takes two sides to negotiate, compromise and finally come to an agreement.

It only took :turtle: Moscow Mitch to block the two HEROES Covid Relief bills passed by the House from helping anyone who needed what they would've provided in May 2020, Jun, Jul, Aug, Sep, Oct, Nov and early Dec 2020.

But we have something now in late Dec 2020, way below what's really needed, but it's something.
If I were to tell you that a COVID relief bill allocated $350 Million to the 50 richest communities in America, you would think it was Cocaine Mitch's idea, right? WRONG! Nancy Pelosi's gang was responsible for that mess. The average income for those communities was between $262,988 and $525,324. So much for allocating that money for communities that need it the most. That COVID relief bill was to bail out states that had incompetent fiscal leadership and fix their pre COVID state's financial woes, not help ordinary people. I imagine that a lot of that money would have gone to fund some of these bankrupt pension programs that the state ripped off from before the pandemic. The goal of a COVID relief bill should be to help those that have been economically harmed by COVID, not be a government sponsored fairy godmother benefactor and fix problems that existed pre COVID-19. That is not what the money is for!
There's no need for you to attempt to attribute a fake answer to me! I'm quite able to speak for myself. You don't speak for me. Why not ask the question and let me answer?

If you were to tell me that a 'COVID relief bill allocated $350 Million to the 50 richest communities in America,' I would ask which communities are those, and what is your source for this info?

If you were to say 'Nancy Pelosi's gang was responsible for that mess,' I would ask what is your source for this info yet again.

And if you go on to write a bunch of uncorroborated stuff like 'The average income for those communities was between $262,988 and $525,324. So much for allocating that money for communities that need it the most. That COVID relief bill was to bail out states that had incompetent fiscal leadership and fix their pre COVID state's financial woes, not help ordinary people. I imagine that a lot of that money would have gone to fund some of these bankrupt pension programs that the state ripped off from before the pandemic. The goal of a COVID relief bill should be to help those that have been economically harmed by COVID, not be a government sponsored fairy godmother benefactor and fix problems that existed pre COVID-19. That is not what the money is for!' I'd say I don't buy it just on your say so. What's your source? Is it from Qanon? Is it from one or more extreme right wing propaganda news site, or social media?

You have made no point here. You've just spewed bullshit. And maybe that bullshit came from a source, so... What's your source for the bullshit?
the Scribbler

:christmastree:
If U C Xmas tree on TV show
it's Xmas Activism! :christmas:

:lynda1:
If U C attractive brunette in a movie

it's Dark Haired Women Activism!

Be very careful!
Don't B indoctrinated!
Cover your eyes! & ears!
:tv:
Dazzle1
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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
Bert wrote:
3 years ago
At the risk of being redundant, I'm going to say it again. Just don't engage with Mr. X and Dazzle. Why invest the time in doing a point by point refutation of the unhinged stuff they post? You're not going to change their minds and they'll just come back with even more unhinged arguments in response. Don't feed the trolls.
I suppose. But not a lot of Superheroine talk going on in forum, and we're at like 16 pages here!

Edit: 17 pages now!
In other words, don't debate with people you will lose to.

I love how the defenders of the Dems justify the pork in this bill. all of which should go to Covid relief and small business.
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theScribbler
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Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
Bert wrote:
3 years ago
At the risk of being redundant, I'm going to say it again. Just don't engage with Mr. X and Dazzle. Why invest the time in doing a point by point refutation of the unhinged stuff they post? You're not going to change their minds and they'll just come back with even more unhinged arguments in response. Don't feed the trolls.
I suppose. But not a lot of Superheroine talk going on in forum, and we're at like 16 pages here!

Edit: 17 pages now!
In other words, don't debate with people you will lose to.

I love how the defenders of the Dems justify the pork in this bill. all of which should go to Covid relief and small business.
What are you talking about!? You've never won a argument here in your life. you lose every debate you enter into. Every single time.

There nothing to love and no way to defend the huge amount of GOP pork in this bill.

And your last sentence once again shows how you are the victim of GOP and Qanon propaganda.

The Covid Relief part of the bill IS for Covid relief.

The other parts of the bill (it's a paired up bill) is for keeping the government open as opposed to having a government shutdown. The table of contents I posted above should tell you a lot, or it would if you had a brain capable of understanding and critical thinking.

I suppose as a freelance janitor, you don't need that ability too often.

Here, from cbsnews two days ago...
Congress passes 5,593-page COVID relief and government funding bill; measure now heads to White House

Since you probably can't figure out how to click a link, here's the text from the above article even tho you probably can't comprehend it...

Washington — Both chambers of Congress on Monday night passed a $900 billion relief measure designed to provide long-awaited assistance to Americans, small businesses and industries ailing from the coronavirus pandemic. The $900 billion package is paired with a $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill that funds the federal government through September.

The House of Representatives vote was divided into two parts. Part One, which included the Defense; Commerce, Justice, Science; Homeland Security; and Financial Services sections of the omnibus, passed by a vote of 327 to 85. Part Two included eight spending bills — including the COVID relief bill — and passed by a margin of 359 to 53.

The measures were then bundled together and sent to the Senate, where the legislation passed by a vote of 92-6. The bill now goes to the White House for the president's signature to become law.

After months of unsuccessful negotiations, congressional leaders reached a deal on the coronavirus measure Sunday, ending the monthslong stalemate between Republicans and Democrats that delayed aid to those hardest hit by the public health crisis that devastated the U.S. economy.

"We will do some good with this legislation, but we must recognize that more needs to be done to crush the virus, to put more money in the pockets of the American people," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said in remarks on the House floor Monday, adding that she expected a "strong bipartisan vote" on the rescue deal.

The legislative text of the hulking 5,593-page package was released shortly before 2 p.m. and lawmakers were bracing for a long night as they worked to pass the measure days before Christmas. The aid package included $600 in direct payments to most Americans, $300 per week in enhanced federal unemployment benefits until March 14, and more than $284 billion in loans for businesses through the popular Paycheck Protection Program. The relief measure also extends the moratorium on evictions until January 31 and provides more than $30 billion to accelerate the distribution of coronavirus vaccines.

The government spending deal also included a provision ending surprise medical billing, an issue with bipartisan support, and establishes a women's history museum and the National Museum of the American Latino.

The $600 checks are half as generous as the $1,200 payments distributed under the CARES Act in the spring. Americans who made less than $75,000 in 2019 are eligible for the full $600, with the payments tapering off for those who made up to $100,000, according to a summary of the legislation circulated by lawmakers and published by The Washington Post. Parents will also get $600 per dependent child, an increase from the $500 given under the CARES Act.

Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin told CNBC Americans could begin seeing the payments in their bank accounts as soon as next week.

"This is a very, very fast way of getting money into the economy," Mnuchin said Monday morning. "Let me emphasize: People are going to see this money at the beginning of next week."

Democratic and Republican congressional leaders expressed optimism Sunday the combined measures would be approved by both chambers of Congress swiftly. Pelosi called the deal a "first step" and predicted more relief will come once President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris take office in January.

Mr. Biden took to Twitter soon after the bill was approved, saying, "I applaud this relief package, but our work is far from over. Starting in the new year, Congress will need to immediately get to work on support for our COVID-19 plan. My message to everyone out there struggling right now: Help is on the way."

The House and Senate last approved a sweeping aid package addressing the economic havoc wrought by the pandemic in March, though the two chambers then put forth their own separate measures, which failed to garner enough bipartisan backing to pass. The White House and Pelosi spent the intervening months engaged in failed negotiations over another measure, though they disagreed on the size and scope of the package.

Republicans were pushing for the next bill to include liability protections for businesses, while Democrats wanted billions of dollars in federal assistance for state and local governments that took a financial hit because of the pandemic. In the end, neither priority was included in the targeted measure agreed to by congressional leaders.

Facing the fast-approaching end-of-year expiration of several key COVID relief programs, as well as a government funding deadline, the four congressional leaders — Pelosi, Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer and House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy — gathered last week to hammer out a deal to fund the government and provide aid to those struggling because of the pandemic.

Talks hit a snag after GOP Senator Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania put forth language to curb the Federal Reserve's emergency lending authority, but he ultimately agreed to narrow the language to apply only to three lending facilities established by the CARES Act, the sprawling relief package passed in March.

To avoid a lapse in overall government funding, Congress approved stopgap funding measures three times that gave congressional leaders more time to finalize a deal and skirt a partial government shutdown. The second continuing resolution, which extended government funding through Monday, was approved by both chambers in a rare weekend session and signed by President Trump late Sunday. Yet another, extending funding through Monday, December 28, was signed by Mr. Trump early Tuesday.


Yes, I know these are too many words for you, Dazzle1, but I'm not really posting it for you. It's actually for the people who can comprehend it! Plus you're really only interesting in Qanon and right wing liars and spin anyway, so reality and truth is wasted on you.
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Ok before forum war 1,342 breaks out let's just all cool it can we please.

Trumps latest shenanigans are he won't sign it unless there's more cash even though it was his own party stopping the larger sums in the first place.

So all this debate about the current bill might be irrelevant anyway.

Let's all just take a breather and stop this escalating.
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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
What are you talking about!? You've never won a argument here in your life. you lose every debate you enter into. Every single time.
Your CBSNews article only states the broad highlights of the bill and not the absurd payments like Gender and democracy support for pakistan or giving money to evil corporations like green tech or how this makes rich people rich as the NY times points out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/22/us/p ... -bill.html

rationalizing is not an argument.
Last edited by Mr. X 3 years ago, edited 3 times in total.
Damselbinder

Yeah, but since we live in Northern Europe at least we can actually get medical treatment.
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theScribbler
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Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
What are you talking about!? You've never won a argument here in your life. you lose every debate you enter into. Every single time.
Your CBSNews article only states the broad highlights of the bill and not the absurd payments like Gender and democracy support for pakistan or giving money to evil corporations like green tech or how this makes rich people rich as the NY times points out.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/22/us/p ... -bill.html

rationalizing is not an argument.
Great! We're on the same page.

I agree your rationalizing is not an argument. I'm just surprised you're admitting it.

I also agree that your NY Times article only states broad highlights of the bill and not the absurd payments like Gender and democracy support for pakistan or giving money to evil corporations like green tech.

While agreed those not in article, I'm wondering: is there a credible article that states "the absurd payments like Gender and democracy support for pakistan or giving money to evil corporations like green tech." If so, link please.

As far as government bills that have things in it that "makes rich people rich:" I just gotta ask, how long have you been in USA, following government doings and their aiding the rich in improving their sorry lot in life?

how-the-cares-act-became-a-tax-break-bonanza-for-the-rich-explained

is-congress-rigged-in-favour-of-the-rich

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Cause you like the NY Times...


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(if some of the above images are truncated on the right, click to see full not truncated image)
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This doesn't bode well

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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
Great! We're on the same page.
There's something wrong with you that you're perpetually rebelling and you don't know why. Like you're stuck in 1980 being the snarky college kid at a thanksgiving dinner just having to rebel against your parents even if they maybe right.

You literally posted a bunch of non-sequitur articles branching in multiple directions... to prove what exactly? I posted an article showing the BILL is favoring the rich and you post about ONLY the repubs. Why? I'm not a repub. I'm MORE of a liberal than you are.

Stop rationalizing.
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Again let's believe in the sentiments of the season fellow board members. Good will to all men.
Nothing about Superheroines though, may they continue to fall afoul of the dastardly schemes we plot.

Tragically for another 3000 families in the states it's a Christmas in mourning.

I hope anyone reading this isn't one of them

Stay safe and I hope you all have a good a holiday as possible.
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Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
There's something wrong with you that you're perpetually rebelling and you don't know why. Like you're stuck in 1980 being the snarky college kid at a thanksgiving dinner just having to rebel against your parents even if they maybe right.
Cool! Cool!
Mr. X true colors shining through! Mr. X says "Quick! Divert! Divert! Diversion tactic to the rescue!"

Diversion-.jpg
Diversion-.jpg (67.21 KiB) Viewed 3360 times

Here's where Mr. X lets everyone know of his epic failing. Attack the opponent with fictitious mischaracteration.

When did you give up? When did you suddenly realize you live in a fake alternate reality, and in real reality all you write falls flat and fails?

Was it when I wrote
'is there a credible article that states "the absurd payments like Gender and democracy support for pakistan or giving money to evil corporations like green tech." If so, link please.'

Did it suddenly dawn on you that you had nothing? Nothing you could link to that wasn't Trump lying, GOP lying, Qanon lying, off-the-deep-end right winger lying, and you knew none of that was going to work on people living in reality?

Bert's got your number. R5 clobbers your nonsense with facts. Imagineer ain't buying what you're selling.

Yeah, sure, if I felt like it, I could make up bizarre mischaracterizations about you too. But I prefer to let you characterize yourself. How you present yourself here, your incomplete understanding and presentations about mask wearing and anything covid, as well as your very similar to GOP propaganda blurbs on the recent paired government spending/covid relief bill speaks for itself. In a sad way.
Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
You literally posted a bunch of non-sequitur articles branching in multiple directions... to prove what exactly? I posted an article showing the BILL is favoring the rich and you post about ONLY the repubs. Why? I'm not a repub. I'm MORE of a liberal than you are.
I'm sorry. I gave you too much credit. I shoulda known better. My bad. Here, let me help. Allow me to cradle your head while I spoonfeed you.

spoon feeding.jpg
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You linked a NY Times article and in your clause preceding article you wrote "how this makes rich people rich as the NY times points out."

I laugh to myself and then point out, maybe not directly enough for you, that this is not new and happens all the time.

I write 'As far as government bills that have things in it that "makes rich people rich:" I just gotta ask, how long have you been in USA, following government doings and their aiding the rich in improving their sorry lot in life?'

How this wasn't a sufficient clue for you, I dunno. Cause here I'm pretending that maybe you don't know government has been doing the make-rich-people-rich stuff with bills and laws for decades, perhaps centuries. While really I assumed you already knew this and I was just pointing out how pointless it was for you to bring up something so common, as if this was unique to the recent bill.

And for fun, but also info, I linked some articles on the subject, and some google screen shots showing various prior articles about government helping the rich. Again, to show how common a thing this is.

You calling these 'non-sequitar articles' is laughable, but I get it. You have no critical thinking ability. You can't put the obvious together. Which explains why you think you know more about science and mask wearing than actual professional scientists do. You are full of your self-deluded genius and 'science. smience,' Mr. X is way smarter than scientists!
Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
...I'm not a repub. I'm MORE of a liberal than you are.
OK?! Whatever. Claim it! Own it! More power to ya! Mr. X is a liberal. More liberal than me. May be more liberal than anyone here!

I will say tho that NO liberal, or 'MORE of a liberal than you' person, would in their right mind use rationalground . com, or federalist . com, as sources for ANYTHING. But you did! Maybe you bumped your head that day!
Mr. X wrote:
3 years ago
Stop rationalizing.
This should be your mantra directed at yourself. You should repeat it to yourself 24 times a minute for 20 minutes. Or till it sinks in. Have fun with that. And Merry Christmas. Good Tidings to You!

:christmastree: :christmas:
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Look don't make these comments personal attacks. Please.
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theScribbler wrote:
3 years ago
When did you give up? When did you suddenly realize you live in a fake alternate reality, and in real reality all you write falls flat and fails?
I'm not the one who believes in moral relativism and "shades of gray" or the ignorant Hobsean view of humanity. Since you have no basis for right and wrong there cannot be a discussion.

I pointed out the BILL was bad, not who authored it. I was under the impression the BS repubs were part of that. You criticize me for partisanship WHILE practicing partisanship.

5 things right off the bat wrong with the repubs and conservatives:
1. Over spending - broke Obama's records.
2. Didn't call themselves out on over spending. Where's the Bill Whittle video criticizing Trump on his reckless spending.
3. Holding onto power and doing nothing.
4. Meddling in peoples' right and affairs.
5. Boys clubs and cronyism.

I challenge you to provide 5 things wrong with democrats and progressivism that are real and not relative to how bad some other team is. Can you name ONE thing wrong with California that is the fault of progressive or democrat thinking?

I didn't bother reading the rest of your post because it appears to be your usual material wandering down rosy paths and making a half dozen non-sequitur red herrings. Buck shotting is a poor tactic, one I used to do as a lefty myself.

The 1980s are over. Its time for you to stop being the rebel and realize YOU are now the normative.
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OK guys you've both said your piece I'll delete any further comments that are directed at the other.
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
OK guys you've both said your piece I'll delete any further comments that are directed at the other.
Oops. sorry. I didn't see this till after I posted.
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This afternoon, while I was at work, my brother texted me and told me I needed to get tested. He dropped by on Saturday with his kids. Today he found out his sons, 9 and 12 years old, tested positive.

I told my supervisor and they sent me home. I'm off tomorrow, too, now. I've been trying to get a test today or tomorrow but I may have to wait until at least Saturday. All the appointments at every single CVS within a 10-15-mile radius are booked solid for the next few days (and you can't swing a dead cat without hitting a CVS around here). I tried to go to a drive-up place that was listed as being open until 7. It's closed until Saturday. The urgent care place down the street won't even answer the phone. The Walgreens here is booked solid for three days.

These things always have a way of happening when I can't do anything about them but hold my breath for a few days.
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Well it's good that you are behaving responsibly., and I can imagine how frustrating and worrying it must be for you.
All I can suggest is that you continue to try and eat well, make sure you are having enough vitamins etc, give your immune system every chance of coping if you do have it.
Whilst it is worrying, you may not have it and so try and stay positive that you are negative, if you see what I mean.
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
Well it's good that you are behaving responsibly., and I can imagine how frustrating and worrying it must be for you.
All I can suggest is that you continue to try and eat well, make sure you are having enough vitamins etc, give your immune system every chance of coping if you do have it.
Whilst it is worrying, you may not have it and so try and stay positive that you are negative, if you see what I mean.

Thanks. They say young kids don't spread it too much. I wore a mask the whole time they were here and had them do the same. They take my temperature at work every day and it's always been around 96-97-ish. (Farenheit). I've always had allergies so I have a hard time distinguishing symptoms. I'm older and on the heavy side. I've always figured if I had it, I'd know it. (I had the flu almost 3 years ago and haven't felt anywhere close to that bad this year) As Tom Petty once said "The waiting is the hardest part."
Bert

Hey. That's scary. If you and the kids were both wearing masks the whole time there's a pretty good chance you aren't infected. Good luck!
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It's doubley frustrating to hear 12 million vaccines have been delivered but only 2.8 million people vaccinated, when you hear stories like yours
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
It's doubley frustrating to hear 12 million vaccines have been delivered but only 2.8 million people vaccinated, when you hear stories like yours
What is frustrating also is the congress and their staffers got to go first.

They should be behind everybody else. They caused much of the misery we are going through in the U.S.

As far as Trump he is gone in three weeks. Pelosi and McConnell are still going to be there with the the rest
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Predictions are for another 80,000 dead by 20th Jan in the US. 3, 744 yesterday alone.
I hate to say it but it almost looks like the daily golfing routine is STILL having little impact.

80,000. That's like 2 small towns wiped out.

In LA 1 person is dying every 10 minutes from the virus :confused:

It's more than UK has lost in 9 months. It's just heartbreaking. All those families affected, mothers fathers children grand parents, friends, colleagues lost. Just a tragedy.

Stay home tonight and stay safe. I want to see all you ass holes on here this time next year giving me angina. ;)
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
Predictions are for another 80,000 dead by 20th Jan in the US. 3, 744 yesterday alone.
I hate to say it but it almost looks like the daily golfing routine is STILL having little impact.

80,000. That's like 2 small towns wiped out.

In LA 1 person is dying every 10 minutes from the virus :confused:

It's more than UK has lost in 9 months. It's just heartbreaking. All those families affected, mothers fathers children grand parents, friends, colleagues lost. Just a tragedy.

Stay home tonight and stay safe. I want to see all you ass holes on here this time next year giving me angina. ;)
who you callin Asshole!! And don't you mean Vagina NOT Angina???? At least that's what I give and take!! lol
but seriously, stay safe!! happy New Year
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:sad:
964 dead in UK yesterday.
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
:sad:
964 dead in UK yesterday.
If you guys recall, I said how bad this was going to be back in Feb since my first medical assignment was the front lines, When I did what I did in December I would never have guessed that not even 2 months later I would be fighting a deadly pandemic...To be honest with you masks do NOT work against this, the only true preventative is a fully sealed bio/Hazmat PPE, in our labs we do not wear masks or shields, we wear full self contained gear...the new mutated strain does not appear to be more deadly but much much more contagious, the R0 factor will skyrocket from where it currently is to probably 9-10...very soon 1 in 10 people will have this in any given circle. good luck to us all in 2021 and pray the 2-5 remaining vaccines work and are approved...otherwise 2020 will haunt us into 2022 and beyond
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I tried to get tested today at a drive up place. I was in my car, in line for about an hour when they told me they were closing 3 1/2 hours early because they saw as many people as they could see in a day.

I got an appointment at an urgent care clinic on Sunday. It doesn't seem like I can do any better than that.
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Good luck. Hopefully you and your family have no symptoms.
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batgirl1969 wrote:
3 years ago
To be honest with you masks do NOT work against this, the only true preventative is a fully sealed bio/Hazmat PPE, in our labs we do not wear masks or shields, we wear full self contained gear.
Love you girl...you know that, but I wish you would have worded that differently. One thing we do not need right now is discouragement of wearing masks. The main reason for mask use is to lessen the chance of an infected person spreading the virus. Certainly a cloth mask doesn't guarantee no transmission, but it helps. Additionally there is some evidence that cloth masks can have some protective effect for the wearer. You work directly with the virus. Obviously you would take every necessary precaution in that setting. Out in the imperfect world people are just trying to get through the day without succumbing to fear and trying to take the precautions they can to stay safe. Masks are part of that equation. Let's encourage that.
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Bert wrote:
3 years ago
batgirl1969 wrote:
3 years ago
To be honest with you masks do NOT work against this, the only true preventative is a fully sealed bio/Hazmat PPE, in our labs we do not wear masks or shields, we wear full self contained gear.
Love you girl...you know that, but I wish you would have worded that differently. One thing we do not need right now is discouragement of wearing masks. The main reason for mask use is to lessen the chance of an infected person spreading the virus. Certainly a cloth mask doesn't guarantee no transmission, but it helps. Additionally there is some evidence that cloth masks can have some protective effect for the wearer. You work directly with the virus. Obviously you would take every necessary precaution in that setting. Out in the imperfect world people are just trying to get through the day without succumbing to fear and trying to take the precautions they can to stay safe. Masks are part of that equation. Let's encourage that.
Thanks Bert and yes you are correct, let me encourage everyone, wear a mask!!! Something is certainly better than nothing, I should not have said that especially as an insider, I by no means want anyone to put themself in danger, especially with the new mutated strain that spreads with a lower concentration of the virus load. I would encourage a medical mask though....and not reuse it over and over...unless you have a UV system to sanitize it
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batgirl1969 wrote:
3 years ago
tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
Predictions are for another 80,000 dead by 20th Jan in the US. 3, 744 yesterday alone.
I hate to say it but it almost looks like the daily golfing routine is STILL having little impact.

80,000. That's like 2 small towns wiped out.

In LA 1 person is dying every 10 minutes from the virus :confused:

It's more than UK has lost in 9 months. It's just heartbreaking. All those families affected, mothers fathers children grand parents, friends, colleagues lost. Just a tragedy.

Stay home tonight and stay safe. I want to see all you ass holes on here this time next year giving me angina. ;)
who you callin Asshole!! And don't you mean Vagina NOT Angina???? At least that's what I give and take!! lol
but seriously, stay safe!! happy New Year
You are right
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Some c*nt has deliberately spoiled 500 doses of the vaccine.

https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/2020 ... 098837001/

Happy New Year, Everybody! Well, everybody except anti-vaxxer scum.
"A brass unicorn has been catapulted across a London street and impaled an eminent surgeon. Words fail me, gentlemen."
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Heroine Addict wrote:
3 years ago
Some c*nt has deliberately spoiled 500 doses of the vaccine.

https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/2020 ... 098837001/

Happy New Year, Everybody! Well, everybody except anti-vaxxer scum.
That was a true hate crime!
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The new strain from the UK is now in the US...this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better sadly. Everyone do their best to stay safe and stay home away from other people.
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RedMountain wrote:
3 years ago
The new strain from the UK is now in the US...this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better sadly. Everyone do their best to stay safe and stay home away from other people.
Stay safe but most of us have to work and the govt has to end the shutdowns.

You can social distance and still work.

Many of us are self employed and it is obvious in Mass that most of the govt would see us die on the street than let us earn a living.
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Dazzle1 wrote:
3 years ago
RedMountain wrote:
3 years ago
The new strain from the UK is now in the US...this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better sadly. Everyone do their best to stay safe and stay home away from other people.
Stay safe but most of us have to work and the govt has to end the shutdowns.

You can social distance and still work.

Many of us are self employed and it is obvious in Mass that most of the govt would see us die on the street than let us earn a living.
Great point dazzle. All the people in this industry are small business owners and most do video shoots and they cannot do shoots because of the lock down. So if the attitude of some is "flip you and your small business" just remember all the producers here are small business owners.
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RedMountain wrote:
3 years ago
The new strain from the UK is now in the US...this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better sadly. Everyone do their best to stay safe and stay home away from other people.
A slight correction - this is going to get worse.

SARS-Cov-2 is endemic. There is no "getting better" it will never go away, in the same way the "Spanish flu" remains in circulation to this day.

It is essential we learn to live with it.

Now there is a vaccine, the vulnerable need to take it annually in exactly the same way they do for flu. Once a sufficient number are vaccinated we need to go back to normal.

That would be the correct course, however the suspicions of many are that it will not. That there is something more sinister afoot.

Frankly, with the behaviour of governments globally - it's hard to disagree.
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I went to get a test today, but couldn't get tested. I learned that I no longer have health insurance.

I was covered by my employer's plan last year and in November I filled out paperwork to be covered this year.

Yet today, when I arrived at the urgent care place, they told me I was no longer on that plan.

They needed $200 for a test.

Edit: When I got home, I emailed my company's HR department. I didn't think I'd hear anything until tomorrow, but somebody replied and said that yes, I am covered as of Friday. I just haven't received the new card yet because the mail is so slow.
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tallyho
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That's so annoying for you. Hopefully you still have no symptoms?
How strange are the ways of the gods ...........and how cruel.

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IMSancho
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tallyho wrote:
3 years ago
That's so annoying for you. Hopefully you still have no symptoms?

I'm ok, thank you.
Bert

swampy170 wrote:
3 years ago
RedMountain wrote:
3 years ago
The new strain from the UK is now in the US...this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better sadly. Everyone do their best to stay safe and stay home away from other people.
A slight correction - this is going to get worse.

SARS-Cov-2 is endemic. There is no "getting better" it will never go away, in the same way the "Spanish flu" remains in circulation to this day.

It is essential we learn to live with it.

Now there is a vaccine, the vulnerable need to take it annually in exactly the same way they do for flu. Once a sufficient number are vaccinated we need to go back to normal.

That would be the correct course, however the suspicions of many are that it will not. That there is something more sinister afoot.

Frankly, with the behaviour of governments globally - it's hard to disagree.
"There is no "getting better""? What an asinine statement. Of course things will improve once vaccinations reach herd immunity levels. When that happens things will be much better. As for yearly vaccines, no one knows yet whether that will be necessary. Some vaccines last a lifetime. Time will tell whether additional shots will be necessary.

As for your ludicrous conspiracy theory, sell that shit in crazytown. No one's buying here. National governments argue for weeks over where and when to hold a meeting. You think that level of jockeying for advantage and dispute over trivialities just magically evaporates when in comes to some mysterious global conspiracy? It's ridiculous. Jesus.
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