I have a question regarding The Joker and Harley Quinn

[Bronson881]

Did The Joker make Harley crazy or was she already crazy and he brought it out of her? I have always wondered about this.

[Visitor]

Which version?

Some of the recent comic books and shows have Harley Quinn was already a bit crazy. One even had her being the cause of the Joker's insanity even though most had him that way long before they met.

[Mr. X]

There is also the question of Batman creating the Joker.

[Bronson881]

Thanks for the replies guys.

[argento]

It is a relationship between a psychopath( ) and his complementary ( ). Harley uses the scenario of the therapist-patient relationship to convey his complaint. They are not common complaints, they are complaints about humiliations, disqualifications, even physical aggressions.

[Mr. X]

Its a question of is Harley a psychopath or sociopath.

[argento]

In the 2017 Batman Harley Quinn movie, she confesses to Nightwing that she is a sociopath.

[GWalb]

I was under the impression that 'psychopath' is frowned on as being too harsh, and 'sociopath' is the preferred term to refer to the condition. All psychological terms are somewhat imprecise of course since no two people are enough alike to have exactly the same condition.

[Mr. X]

As I understand it psychopath is a born with condition (or can be induced through physical trauma) where the empathic part of the brain is diminished or destroyed. So psychopaths make good surgeons or soldiers. Its not necessarily a bad condition, it just means low empathy. Sociopath is learned behavior like someone being bad to blend into a gang.

[Damselbinder]

According to this the difference is mostly in severity, rather than a clear clinical distinction:

https://www.healthline.com/health/menta ... ath#traits

[argento]

This concern of yours has a real life fact. I saw a meme of Charles Manson looking like a joker and was reminded of some of his family members Susan Atkins, Patricia Krenwinkel and Leslie Van Houten. Leslie went so far as to confess to committing murders she didn't commit in order to clear Manson. Likewise Susan. These girls came from dysfunctional families but not Patricia, who had a hormonal problem and Manson made her feel beautiful. As a good manipulator, Manson knew which soldiers to choose to commit his crimes, he needed sociopaths. These three girls preferred to be condemned in order to save Manson, something Harley would do to save the Prankster. To answer your question Harley was a sociopath before he met the Joker, but since the beginning of his relationship with the Joker, Harley has played a very submissive role.