Heroines in Peril - Mainstream - PROJECT GREEN-LIT!

[CustomSuperheroines]

Hey everyone! I will update this post/thread as I get more info, but we will be starting up a campaign in a few weeks to begin producing mainstream web content partnering with either Hulu, YouTube, or Netflix (we have not reached a solid deal all parties agree upon yet). To get initial funding for this project, we will post up an IndieGoGo or Kickstarter campaign which we will share here as well as with our own friends and family. The concept is something many of you will be interested in - bringing the concept of Villains Winning / Heroine Losing with peril to a mainstream, viewable platform.

By partnering up with a few other companies and platform hosts, paired with our own internal expansion at Cross the Line Entertainment, we will be able to really up our production values like never before. This new series will not be pay-per-download, but rather free to view across a premium hosting solution as mentioned above.

Budget will be allocated to higher level costumes, visual effects, locations, and audio. Choreography will be tighter and more stunts will be involved. Scenarios previously requested will now be feasible due to more budget to work with. We are scheduling out our Campaign Video this week to shoot in early June. From there, it will go to my VFX team to complete followed by a public posting.

If being able to watch Superheroines-in-Peril on a mainstream platform in an R-Rated style (think Game of Thrones, True Blood, Girls, etc - HBO/Showtime/Cinemax style) is something that would interest you, then this is going to be something you may want to get involved with! Our goal is to ensure that we take what we have learned in this genre and apply it here. Comic book styling, true perilous situations, evolving comic-like storyline, and A+ costumes that will be better than ever with a true Hollywood feel to it without losing it's roots...

We have not decided whether we will be taking existing original characters or creating new ones, but we know we (producers and actors) want the concept to be EXTREMELY dark and sexual in nature. While we begin putting this together, we welcome and value everyone's input - please keep in mind the stated limitations here and feel free to give us some suggestions that we can weigh in with the concepts we have going. Thanks for everyone's continued support!!

Logan Cross
Cross the Line Entertainment, LLC

[avenger]

Electra Woman and Dyna Girl done in a more 'serious' tone and with Batman tv perils/death traps but without the camp and craziness.....if it wasn't such a guitar addict I'd be sending money towards this project, but I wholeheartedly wish this endeavor well and with much success!

[rayman]

Sounds VERY interesting and exciting but if you are prepared to go to True Blood and Game of Thrones level of violence and sexual content I would say that within "normal" reasoning you have no limits LOL!
I never had the time to follow GoT but I did watch True Blood and sucking the bullets/blood from a vampire who has been shot many time is pretty intense as is being chained by chains that burn into your skin not to mention bursting into flames being savaged by beasts and impaled by various means...this project could be a step towards a very big deal our genre needs the balance redessing, why is it okay to have superheroes and heroes being pummeled, bloodied and tortured when it is almost unheard of to have a superheroine or heroine suffer a similar fate in the major market, sure seeing Sue Storm in Rise of the Silver Surfer get her forcefield beaten and her getting pierced was amazing but such a short scene within a pretty long movie.

I really am behind this and hope many more will be too.

Good luck Logan and the team

[Heroine Addict]

It sounds interesting. However, I suspect mainstream distributors might have a big problem with "EXTREMELY dark and sexual".

[rizoboy]

I think this is an awesome idea.... I'm just confused as to how you will pull this off on Youtube (Hulu and Netflix I understand) which has huge restrictions on risky sexual material. And would you have to pay to view videos on Hulu and Netflix? I love where this is going if executed well. I already have so many scenarios from comics that I would like to relive. Are you taking suggestions on this forum?

[CustomSuperheroines]

It sounds interesting. However, I suspect mainstream distributors might have a big problem with "EXTREMELY dark and sexual".

Mainstream distributors are pushing the HBO products like crazy right now. Topless scenes in every episode, torture, penises getting chopped off... it's pretty graphic. I don't think that's an issue. It all depends on how the story is told and how the content is filmed.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I think this is an awesome idea.... I'm just confused as to how you will pull this off on Youtube (Hulu and Netflix I understand) which has huge restrictions on risky sexual material. And would you have to pay to view videos on Hulu and Netflix? I love where this is going if executed well. I already have so many scenarios from comics that I would like to relive. Are you taking suggestions on this forum?

YouTube has actual content channels. Their standard platform is very content restricted, but there are other options. I am in negotiations with all three at the moment (though I do have a connection with YouTube who lives in the area), but I haven't solidified anything.

I have to be cautious, in regards to reinventing old scenes, as we can get into messy territory with copyright laws, but I am open to suggestions at this time for concepts (not necessarily scenes or scenarios)... we are working on putting everything together now...

[Mamooche24]

Would love to see something sexy and campy, but with a modern twist and some comedic elements. Throw one of the heroines in pantyhose as well.

And of course some ko's and carries. We can convert some mainstream people over to our side if we do this right! And then they come to your site and spend some money

[Heroine Addict]

It sounds interesting. However, I suspect mainstream distributors might have a big problem with "EXTREMELY dark and sexual".

Mainstream distributors are pushing the HBO products like crazy right now. Topless scenes in every episode, torture, penises getting chopped off... it's pretty graphic. I don't think that's an issue. It all depends on how the story is told and how the content is filmed.

Indeed. How it's told is key. In the mainstream, however, female sexual peril is generally a MacGuffin to lead into an "issues" storyline about how the victim copes with the aftermath. It's incredibly rare (if not unheard of) for the sexual peril to be the main event and the focus to be the abuser's triumph.

Is there any other "EXTREMELY dark and sexual" series with villains humiliating heroines sexually? You may have found a gap in the market, but I suspect that gap exists because female sexual peril is a cultural taboo.

[CustomSuperheroines]

It sounds interesting. However, I suspect mainstream distributors might have a big problem with "EXTREMELY dark and sexual".

Mainstream distributors are pushing the HBO products like crazy right now. Topless scenes in every episode, torture, penises getting chopped off... it's pretty graphic. I don't think that's an issue. It all depends on how the story is told and how the content is filmed.

Indeed. How it's told is key. In the mainstream, however, female sexual peril is generally a MacGuffin to lead into an "issues" storyline about how the victim copes with the aftermath. It's incredibly rare (if not unheard of) for the sexual peril to be the main event and the focus to be the abuser's triumph.

Is there any other "EXTREMELY dark and sexual" series with villains humiliating heroines sexually? You may have found a gap in the market, but I suspect that gap exists because female sexual peril is a cultural taboo.

If the content is acted and filmed like a softcore film, then I completely agree. But if it is part of a bigger idea or concept, then it can definitely be done. I've had this discussion with my team and I don't see why Hollywood has shied away from comic book concepts with female heroes. We can pioneer that change.

[rayman]

I knew my reply made good sense

[theScribbler]

So you do a kickstarter like campaign, raise maybe 10k to 30k, then what? Game of Thrones is like $6 million per episode, True Blood around $3-5 mil per ep. Then you put it up for free on a youtube channel. OK, I'll watch it when it's up.

[Mr. X]

I wish you the best luck. would be nice to see some sexy heroine content even if its PG.

[CustomSuperheroines]

So you do a kickstarter like campaign, raise maybe 10k to 30k, then what? Game of Thrones is like $6 million per episode, True Blood around $3-5 mil per ep. Then you put it up for free on a youtube channel. OK, I'll watch it when it's up.

I'm not sure if there's an actual question in here. The budget of Game of Thrones versus whatever we produce doesn't really matter.

[theScribbler]

You wrote

If being able to watch Superheroines-in-Peril on a mainstream platform in an R-Rated style (think Game of Thrones, True Blood, Girls, etc - HBO/Showtime/Cinemax style) is something that would interest you ... and A+ costumes that will be better than ever with a true Hollywood feel to it without losing it's roots...

Which to me means budget in the realm of their budgets, to be in the ballpark of doing their "R-rated style" or their style in general. But maybe you meant something else and I misunderstood.

[CustomSuperheroines]

You wrote

If being able to watch Superheroines-in-Peril on a mainstream platform in an R-Rated style (think Game of Thrones, True Blood, Girls, etc - HBO/Showtime/Cinemax style) is something that would interest you ... and A+ costumes that will be better than ever with a true Hollywood feel to it without losing it's roots...

Which to me means budget in the realm of their budgets, to be in the ballpark of doing their "R-rated style" or their style in general. But maybe you meant something else and I misunderstood.

I was just referring to style. Content type, rating, market aim. Obviously not their budget...

Our concept is broken into a 6-movie project and/or a series. Also, those budgets go to location, actors, food, and post-production. They don't need to be as high as they are - we can film something very similar for hundreds of thousands less and no one would know because the allocation of that portion of the budget is not seen in the final product.

[Bert]

This stuff fills a niche without raising alarm bells amongst the general public because you have to go looking for it to find it. If you bring fetish material into the mainstream, especially material that depicts violence and sexual peril against women, the outcry will be swift and furious. We have a good thing going here right now, with a wide variety of material to suit many different tastes. Shining a spotlight on it will fuck things up for all of us. This will not end well.

[CustomSuperheroines]

This stuff fills a niche without raising alarm bells amongst the general public because you have to go looking for it to find it. If you bring fetish material into the mainstream, especially material that depicts violence and sexual peril against women, the outcry will be swift and furious. We have a good thing going here right now, with a wide variety of material to suit many different tastes. Shining a spotlight on it will fuck things up for all of us. This will not end well.

I completely disagree with this. Have you watched any 80s movie? How about Kill Bill? Or the fact that this whole fetish revolves around and spawned from mainstream TV... I think there's a place for it.

If you want the blatant pornographic portion of the genre, no worries there - we won't be filming that type of material and that niche can be found in the same places.

[Bert]

If you produce mainstream content focused on heroines losing/facing sexual peril, there will be a large backlash that will shine an unwelcome light on our niche and lead to attempts to control content. You are messing with things that will bite us all on the ass, not just consumers who buy vids, but producers who make the films.

[Heroine Addict]

Maybe you need to be specific as to what you mean by dark and sexual? Even if you're not planning to do porn, I would take this to mean the heroines will be sexually humiliated in some way. Something which never happened to Wonder Woman or Batgirl on TV.

The merest hint of rape or sexual abuse would cause a backlash if it's handled insensitively. And let's face it, a victorious villain gloating over the sexual humiliation of a heroine will be seen as highly insensitive by a large proportion of mainstream viewers.

Just take a look at last year's comments for Batgirl Spoiled:
Now that fan video contained an extremely restrained suggestion that the villains would "ruin" the heroine. Yet that scene - which didn't show anything or directly reference anything sexual - whipped up quite a bit of hysteria among YouTube's army of knee-jerkers.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Maybe you need to be specific as to what you mean by dark and sexual? Even if you're not planning to do porn, I would take this to mean the heroines will be sexually humiliated in some way. Something which never happened to Wonder Woman or Batgirl on TV.

The merest hint of rape or sexual abuse would cause a backlash if it's handled insensitively. And let's face it, a victorious villain gloating over the sexual humiliation of a heroine will be seen as highly insensitive by a large proportion of mainstream viewers.

Just take a look at last year's comments for Batgirl Spoiled:
Now that fan video contained an extremely restrained suggestion that the villains would "ruin" the heroine. Yet that scene - which didn't show anything or directly reference anything sexual - whipped up quite a bit of hysteria.amongst YouTube's army of knee-jerkers.

I would not film a rape scene or anything that was directed at sexually abusing the heroines for the sake of it. But torture that included the humiliation and mental breakdown if a heroine is something I would lace into the content.

I honestly don't care what most YouTube comments say. The people who comment on those types of open public threads typically show their lack if maturity whether due to age or ignorance.

This isn't really a thread to talk about whether or not I'm going to produce it. That has already been decided that it's going to happen. It's more about the support of our fan base and the viewers to give ideas on how to make it the best it can be.

Having lustful degradation of topless women bitten by male vampires was acceptable on HBO for 9 years or so... I seriously doubt I'll have the issues any of you are saying in regards to violence toward women. Our content is already viewable by the general public (trailers) and we have no kickback there. Instead , we have hundreds of actresses showing up to audition for the project on a monthly basis.

[CustomSuperheroines]

If you produce mainstream content focused on heroines losing/facing sexual peril, there will be a large backlash that will shine an unwelcome light on our niche and lead to attempts to control content. You are messing with things that will bite us all on the ass, not just consumers who buy vids, but producers who make the films.

I still disagree with this. I guess time will tell.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I completely disagree with this. Have you watched any 80s movie? How about Kill Bill? Or the fact that this whole fetish revolves around and spawned from mainstream TV... I think there's a place for it.

If you want the blatant pornographic portion of the genre, no worries there - we won't be filming that type of material and that niche can be found in the same places.

I completely disagree with this. There's a place for mainstream. There's a place for fetish. But maybe you will prove us all wrong.

I guess my point is that this whole fetish is based around content that wasn't ever meant to be a fetish. There is no clear line to draw here.

EDIT: I also believe that the videos we produce aren't all necessarily fetish films. Some producers clearly make fetish films, some create Superheroine films. The difference is where the producer allows the viewer to create the fetish for themselves. Could just be an opinion here. And probably is.

[Heroine Addict]

I guess my point is that this whole fetish is based around content that wasn't ever meant to be a fetish. There is no clear line to draw here.

EDIT: I also believe that the videos we produce aren't all necessarily fetish films. Some producers clearly make fetish films, some create Superheroine films. The difference is where the producer allows the viewer to create the fetish for themselves. Could just be an opinion here. And probably is.

But that's why the SH Peril genre is a subversion of those classic scenes. Quite a lot of this genre is based around parodies of Batgirl and Wonder Woman. We're seeing the stuff which the mainstream could never show happening to those heroines.

Even with original heroines such as Livewire, the central premise remains that she's a superheroine who always wins. Until now. We can imagine there was a weekly TV series in which she righted-wrongs and was great at her job. So the Livewire video starts off as if it's just a typical episode in that imaginary series... and then she starts to lose.

It's subversive because we're seeing a family-friendy heroine in a bright costume suddenly thrown into a very adult situation.

What you're suggesting is a series in which heroines are routinely defeated and humiliated. That doesn't seem very super. For a heroine's defeat to mean anything, we have to believe that it's out of character for her to lose. A universe full of weak / incompetent heroines who always lose seems like more of a premise for a sitcom, rather than a drama in which we're supposed to care what happens to the characters.

[CustomSuperheroines]

I guess my point is that this whole fetish is based around content that wasn't ever meant to be a fetish. There is no clear line to draw here.

EDIT: I also believe that the videos we produce aren't all necessarily fetish films. Some producers clearly make fetish films, some create Superheroine films. The difference is where the producer allows the viewer to create the fetish for themselves. Could just be an opinion here. And probably is.

But that's why the SH Peril genre is a subversion of those classic scenes. Quite a lot of this genre is based around parodies of Batgirl and Wonder Woman. We're seeing the stuff which the mainstream could never show happening to those heroines.

Even with original heroines such as Livewire, the central premise remains that she's a superheroine who always wins. Until now. We can imagine there was a weekly TV series in which she righted-wrongs and was great at her job. So the Livewire video starts off as if it's just a typical episode in that imaginary series... and then she starts to lose.

It's subversive because we're seeing a family-friendy heroine in a bright costume suddenly thrown into a very adult situation.

What you're suggesting is a series in which heroines are routinely defeated and humiliated. That doesn't seem very super. For a heroine's defeat to mean anything, we have to believe that it's out of character for her to lose. A universe full of weak / incompetent heroines who always lose seems like more of a premise for a sitcom, rather than a drama in which we're supposed to care what happens to the characters.

It's all in the way it's presented. Taking one aspect of peril and doing it routinely would make for a silly concept. Offering variety in how it happens allows for the concept to carry through without getting stale and seeming that the heroine isn't super.

I have the concept ready to go. Super vs Evil is one of our series and the characters are constantly losing-- but our family and friends continue to watch it and want to know what happens next. Throw in some real world people so it's not all about superheroines and we have something to relate to - which is what mainstream is all about.

Many people who enjoy this genre have pigeon-holed their beliefs that it cannot work if it's not searchable as a fetish and I completely disagree. The idea of villains winning and carrying along the storyline is VERY plausible and I intend to run with it.

Let's be honest... The Dark Knight. The villains won. Batman did not win. And the movie, IMO, was one of the best out there for comic book type films. Plus, you can mix in triumphs and defeats.

When I first started in this genre, I was told that a ninja type heroine wouldn't sell. My 1st heroine was exactly that. And she is one of my top-selling heroines. Anything can be done... If presented in an appealing way.

[tamonicus]

Electra Woman and Dyna Girl done in a more 'serious' tone and with Batman tv perils/death traps but without the camp and craziness.....if it wasn't such a guitar addict I'd be sending money towards this project, but I wholeheartedly wish this endeavor well and with much success!

I echo very much what avenger wrote. Incidentally, I happen to know for a fact that the names ElectraWoman and DynaGirl are NOT protected as intellectual property (IP). I don't think Krofft ever got around to registering them as trademarks. Apparently the Ideal Toy Company did for its board game, but that has lapsed. You can check it out yourself at uspto.gov.

What this means is you can use the names "ElectraWoman" and "DynaGirl" with no fear of receiving that nasty cease and desist letter.

Or at least for the time being. A year or two back Krofft promised to release its Supershow archives, so it could seek IP protection of all its characters. But they haven't gotten around to that and, given it could cost around $5k per name and there's maybe a dozen characters to protect, I think they'd rather release videos and pocket the cash. Also, when they made that pledge, they said they'd do it that year. Besides, with the show approaching 40 years old, any protection they'd get would be weak.

(I'm not an IP lawyer, but used to work in an IP law firm and learned enough to perform trademark searches and do rudimentary work for the lawyers.)

[Ezekiel]

I'm still flabbergasted by what I've read in the first post. I didn't (and to be honest, still don't) actually believe it would be possible to even dream about this:

To get initial funding for this project, we will post up an IndieGoGo or Kickstarter campaign which we will share here as well as with our own friends and family. The concept is something many of you will be interested in - bringing the concept of Villains Winning / Heroine Losing with peril to a mainstream, viewable platform.

By partnering up with a few other companies and platform hosts, paired with our own internal expansion at Cross the Line Entertainment, we will be able to really up our production values like never before.

WOW!!!! O.O

This has the potential of being so awesome it's hard to put in words. Of course, it will not (and should not, ayway) be straight on brutal pornography, but for the people who were as much interested in the setting as in the action itself (story, general acting, not just coreography in fighting scenes, costumes, the depiction of the IDEA that a superheroine can be defeated, and not just scenes with a chick getting bellypunched), this will be insane!!!!1

[rizoboy]

I think this is an awesome idea.... I'm just confused as to how you will pull this off on Youtube (Hulu and Netflix I understand) which has huge restrictions on risky sexual material. And would you have to pay to view videos on Hulu and Netflix? I love where this is going if executed well. I already have so many scenarios from comics that I would like to relive. Are you taking suggestions on this forum?

YouTube has actual content channels. Their standard platform is very content restricted, but there are other options. I am in negotiations with all three at the moment (though I do have a connection with YouTube who lives in the area), but I haven't solidified anything.

I have to be cautious, in regards to reinventing old scenes, as we can get into messy territory with copyright laws, but I am open to suggestions at this time for concepts (not necessarily scenes or scenarios)... we are working on putting everything together now...

Well as far as comic scenarios go, this is one of my favorites: Links are from the Alan Moore story "For The Man Who Has Everything"... maybe if you could incorporate that type of peril into your future project. You can see from the pictures the dark elements of blood, potentially a fatal conclusion... I'd love to see this kind of action

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... ything.jpg

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/sca ... ng_看图王.jpg

Also would love to see a clear mismatch in size between the heroine and the villain/villainess. I'll keep posting here in case I find new and interesting elements for suggestions!

[rayman]

When a thread like this seems to go 90% negative it baffkes ne, I made the first reply whith what I cinsider an intelligent ad supportive post, pointed out that content was GoT and TB styke so said that that was oretty much limitless in "normal" limits amd that this was a stepping stone towards even greater thigs and Logan has already stated hie team are in talks with the companies he is interested in using.Kelly Kula has a movie on Netflix right now (blatant plug).

All this panic about content in the mainstream - yes it needs to be done carefully BUT the platforms wil not alow it if they think it is too dark or sexual and what about movies like Doomsday or Hostel2 then older ones like Nemesis, The Demolitionist and Eve of Destruction? I seem to remember Blue Steel beig pretty intense as was GI Jane and what about Pain Kiler Jane?

You can buy superheroine peril books for the kindle from amazon, it may be a slow crawl but the mainstream is changing and with GoT and general vampire stuf being lapped up by women the mainstream will exploit this.

Discussion is great but I do get disappointed when such exciting projects get so little constructive support

[Bert]

The cover of Time Magazine this week is on the burgeoning rape culture in universities. It's a national story, it's on the public radar. It doesn't matter how hard you argue that our heroine peril material is fantasy, in the current environment going mainstream with this material will bring unwanted scrutiny to our niche.

Look, I'd love to see more mainstream peril content. With a few exceptions it's an underdeveloped area. Emma Peel found herself in trouble now and then back in the black and white days, and Buffy certainly lost some fights, but those are the exceptions. There is certainly room for action content in which female characters take as good as they give. My issue is with trying to go mainstream with content that highlights women losing and facing sexual peril. It's one thing to build drama by having the outcome of a MF fight be uncertain - it might bother some people but it's defensible in the interest of good storytelling. It's a completely different thing to tell stories where the focus is on the women losing, particularly if they face sexual peril as a result. It's never been an acceptable mainstream theme, for good reason I think, and it's especially troublesome in the current environment.

My biggest worry is that by attempting to pitch heroine peril to a general audience, a backlash could develop that could cause inquisitive reporters/bloggers/rights activists to take a close look at the content currently servicing our little niche. The LAST thing we need is some do-gooder saying this genre is spawning college rapists. It doesn't have to be true, mainstream folks will look at our stuff and just think it COULD be true and bam - we're looking at controls, restrictions, bullying ISPs and producers, basically the end of our little golden age of peril vids. I'm speaking out to caution people that this appealing idea could have serious and lasting repercussions. I'd like to hear what other producers think of Logan's plans. I realize they would be unwilling to speak out against a fellow producer, but this is an issue that could have a big impact on everyone in this genre.

[tallyho]

Maybe you need to be specific as to what you mean by dark and sexual? Even if you're not planning to do porn, I would take this to mean the heroines will be sexually humiliated in some way. Something which never happened to Wonder Woman or Batgirl on TV.

The merest hint of rape or sexual abuse would cause a backlash if it's handled insensitively. And let's face it, a victorious villain gloating over the sexual humiliation of a heroine will be seen as highly insensitive by a large proportion of mainstream viewers.

Just take a look at last year's comments for Batgirl Spoiled:
Now that fan video contained an extremely restrained suggestion that the villains would "ruin" the heroine. Yet that scene - which didn't show anything or directly reference anything sexual - whipped up quite a bit of hysteria.amongst YouTube's army of knee-jerkers.

I would not film a rape scene or anything that was directed at sexually abusing the heroines for the sake of it. But torture that included the humiliation and mental breakdown if a heroine is something I would lace into the content.

Neither did the guys behind Batgirl Spoiled - they didnt even use the R word- yet the furore shone the spotlight on the use of the Batgirl character and the series was stopped. If mainstream production draws attention to the genre, and it will - then aswell as all kinds of character copyright infringements that are rife in the genre, the extremist elements of the SH fetish - those who like the death, torture and sexual defilement of the heroine -will be thrown into the open, and we will ALL be judged in the same way (not knocking those who do like the death/rape stuff, but its not for me, even though I have written stories about it.). We get by now as the numbers are small and a blind eye is turned. Once its mainstream and theres money to be made ...cue lawsuits, cease and desists, moral outrage. It may not affect Logan and his original characters, but it could destroy other producers.

I entirely agree with Bert - you may well have a knee jerk reaction that lashes out against this niche.

I hope I'm completely wrong.

[CustomSuperheroines]

The cover of Time Magazine this week is on the burgeoning rape culture in universities. It's a national story, it's on the public radar. It doesn't matter how hard you argue that our heroine peril material is fantasy, in the current environment going mainstream with this material will bring unwanted scrutiny to our niche.

Look, I'd love to see more mainstream peril content. With a few exceptions it's an underdeveloped area. Emma Peel found herself in trouble now and then back in the black and white days, and Buffy certainly lost some fights, but those are the exceptions. There is certainly room for action content in which female characters take as good as they give. My issue is with trying to go mainstream with content that highlights women losing and facing sexual peril. It's one thing to build drama by having the outcome of a MF fight be uncertain - it might bother some people but it's defensible in the interest of good storytelling. It's a completely different thing to tell stories where the focus is on the women losing, particularly if they face sexual peril as a result. It's never been an acceptable mainstream theme, for good reason I think, and it's especially troublesome in the current environment.

My biggest worry is that by attempting to pitch heroine peril to a general audience, a backlash could develop that could cause inquisitive reporters/bloggers/rights activists to take a close look at the content currently servicing our little niche. The LAST thing we need is some do-gooder saying this genre is spawning college rapists. It doesn't have to be true, mainstream folks will look at our stuff and just think it COULD be true and bam - we're looking at controls, restrictions, bullying ISPs and producers, basically the end of our little golden age of peril vids. I'm speaking out to caution people that this appealing idea could have serious and lasting repercussions. I'd like to hear what other producers think of Logan's plans. I realize they would be unwilling to speak out against a fellow producer, but this is an issue that could have a big impact on everyone in this genre.

Let's be honest: other producers have had absolutely NO problem with speaking out against me. I'm not at all concerned what other producers think or what repercussions may be involved by thinking too far into the context of this approach. The simple fact is that this fetish is, IMO, not at all something that is odd or off-the-wall or even an area of shame. What it IS, is quite the contrary... a very unique way to tell a different side of the tale. There is no debate about whether or not I am going to do this or not. We have already set the project in motion with the first campaign video to be shot on Sunday, June 1st. The thread and conversation should be about the benefits and various options/directions to go now that I have made the decision to bring this type of content to the general public.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Maybe you need to be specific as to what you mean by dark and sexual? Even if you're not planning to do porn, I would take this to mean the heroines will be sexually humiliated in some way. Something which never happened to Wonder Woman or Batgirl on TV.

The merest hint of rape or sexual abuse would cause a backlash if it's handled insensitively. And let's face it, a victorious villain gloating over the sexual humiliation of a heroine will be seen as highly insensitive by a large proportion of mainstream viewers.

Just take a look at last year's comments for Batgirl Spoiled:
Now that fan video contained an extremely restrained suggestion that the villains would "ruin" the heroine. Yet that scene - which didn't show anything or directly reference anything sexual - whipped up quite a bit of hysteria.amongst YouTube's army of knee-jerkers.

I would not film a rape scene or anything that was directed at sexually abusing the heroines for the sake of it. But torture that included the humiliation and mental breakdown if a heroine is something I would lace into the content.

Neither did the guys behind Batgirl Spoiled - they didnt even use the R word- yet the furore shone the spotlight on the use of the Batgirl character and the series was stopped. If mainstream production draws attention to the genre, and it will - then aswell as all kinds of character copyright infringements that are rife in the genre, the extremist elements of the SH fetish - those who like the death, torture and sexual defilement of the heroine -will be thrown into the open, and we will ALL be judged in the same way (not knocking those who do like the death/rape stuff, but its not for me, even though I have written stories about it.). We get by now as the numbers are small and a blind eye is turned. Once its mainstream and theres money to be made ...cue lawsuits, cease and desists, moral outrage. It may not affect Logan and his original characters, but it could destroy other producers.

I entirely agree with Bert - you may well have a knee jerk reaction that lashes out against this niche.

I hope I'm completely wrong.

I know the team who produced Batgirl: Spoiled. The small amount of backlash on a girl getting raped is inconsequential to their success and their abrupt shutdown. Copyright was the issue. People are going to speak out. Activists of all sorts - Eminem is a prime example of overcoming the backlash that will be thrown at you. I seriously doubt that he would have been successful focusing his concern on people who may be opposed to his content.

Once I make the decision to produce a series under a mainstream heading, it will be just that. Fetish producers will remain unaffected. As I said before, the decision has already been made. Time will tell.

[kingles]

The cover of Time Magazine this week is on the burgeoning rape culture in universities. It's a national story, it's on the public radar. It doesn't matter how hard you argue that our heroine peril material is fantasy, in the current environment going mainstream with this material will bring unwanted scrutiny to our niche.

Look, I'd love to see more mainstream peril content. With a few exceptions it's an underdeveloped area. Emma Peel found herself in trouble now and then back in the black and white days, and Buffy certainly lost some fights, but those are the exceptions. There is certainly room for action content in which female characters take as good as they give. My issue is with trying to go mainstream with content that highlights women losing and facing sexual peril. It's one thing to build drama by having the outcome of a MF fight be uncertain - it might bother some people but it's defensible in the interest of good storytelling. It's a completely different thing to tell stories where the focus is on the women losing, particularly if they face sexual peril as a result. It's never been an acceptable mainstream theme, for good reason I think, and it's especially troublesome in the current environment.

My biggest worry is that by attempting to pitch heroine peril to a general audience, a backlash could develop that could cause inquisitive reporters/bloggers/rights activists to take a close look at the content currently servicing our little niche. The LAST thing we need is some do-gooder saying this genre is spawning college rapists. It doesn't have to be true, mainstream folks will look at our stuff and just think it COULD be true and bam - we're looking at controls, restrictions, bullying ISPs and producers, basically the end of our little golden age of peril vids. I'm speaking out to caution people that this appealing idea could have serious and lasting repercussions. I'd like to hear what other producers think of Logan's plans. I realize they would be unwilling to speak out against a fellow producer, but this is an issue that could have a big impact on everyone in this genre.

This is a very pessimistic view, but that doesn't mean that I disagree with the idea that there is at least SOME degree of risk to gaining wider distribution for this kind of content. There is a potential parallel reward however, which I think could be highly beneficial to 'us'. I believe there is a substantial untapped market for SHiP material. I don't necessarily think it has 'mainstream' appeal, like in say Japan...but certainly more than is likely to be indicated by video sales currently. Imagine if our numbers were for the sake of argument...doubled. How would that effect the quality, quantity, and price of content...relative to what it is now? Sure, some curious people might look 'behind the curtain' and be outraged at what they see. A lot of other curious people will IMO...LIKE at least SOMETHING they see. I think this would be a net positive for us.

[dbud]

I have bought a few of your vids on Heroine Legends. Always thought they were very well made and had hot actresses (some of the best frankly) but many were a bit too tame for my tastes (just with the repeated fights I lose interest) so I always checked the trailers but did not buy until recently. I enjoy your Girls of X and Heroine Combat ones very much and have purchased a few of those and hope to get more soon. Bit edgier and darker and more brutal fights.

Agree with you that you can go too far with this stuff but a harder edge and being willing to show peril and super heroines getting the worst of a fight is great. Frankly, I was surprised by how one sided the beat down was of Jennifer Garner's Elektra was in Daredevil but that was also ten years or so ago. Since then the tone of shows you reference (True Blood, GoT, for example) is definitely getting darker and harder edged. Hell, The Following is a show where they repeatedly show college girls tied up and getting stabbed to death for the sexual pleasure of a serial cult leader-WTF is that about!) Look at Spartacus from Starz, wanton nudity and violence (I could have done without the cocks in my face every five minutes but it was a gladiator show). Even shows like Once Upon a Time throw in lines about rape and sex. So I think there is a lot of demand for stuff like this as long as you don't label it a 'fetish vid'. The same person who would scream 'PERVERT' if they found you on a lot of these type sites will then go read 50 Shades of Grey and watch Game of Thrones and doesn't see the issue.

So more along those lines, even without anything X rated will be welcomed by many here, including me, I am sure. As far as the fear of a torch wielding witch hunt for those dirty evil producers who make obscure fetish vids I think we are all safe from the pitchforks. Funny how people get so scared they'll lose what little they have they lash out at anyone who takes a chance to offer more. I hope you do this and are successful and will definitely try to support the effort as best I can.

[kingles]

The simple fact is that this fetish is, IMO, not at all something that is odd or off-the-wall or even an area of shame. What it IS, is quite the contrary... a very unique way to tell a different side of the tale.

I completely agree with this. My view is that any of the moral minority that wants to make waves over this can go to hell. More terrible stuff happens in classic mainstream movies like 'The Godfather' or 'Scarface' than has been depicted in ANY SHiP vid I have EVER watched...and I've seen a lot of them.

[Mr. X]

Geez the guy announces he's going to do some content that may get picked on more mainstream channels and we get a giant thread criticizing him.

I wish him the best. The more the merrier.

[kingles]

Geez the guy announces he's going to do some content that may get picked on more mainstream channels and we get a giant thread criticizing him.

I wish him the best. The more the merrier.

Absolutely. However, even though this is something I've long been hoping would happen...I still understand where the trepidation is coming from. It's not too surprising to me that some people have concerns.

[Disciple]

I completely agree with this. My view is that any of the moral minority that wants to make waves over this can go to hell. More terrible stuff happens in classic mainstream movies like 'The Godfather' or 'Scarface' than has been depicted in ANY SHiP vid I have EVER watched...and I've seen a lot of them.

Devil's-advocate: "The Godfather" and "Scarface" aren't meant to inspire role models, nor does their genre call for it (in fact, the entire point of both films can be summed up as "act like this, and you will live a horrible life and die a horrible death", can it not?). I've known that a lot of people argue that the superhero genre must inherently be a moralistic, role-model genre.

So... have your villain act as nasty to the heroine as you want, just make sure he gets his comeuppance, I guess. I dunno.

[Reamster]

But Mr X it would not be this community if they did not have something to bitch about. I think I have been around too long and seen far too many of these good ideas that turn into bitch sessions.

Logan I wish you all the best of luck and if I am not broke at the time I would love to help in a Kickstarter or Indiegogo project. I have been debating which movie service to buy now I will wait and see if you land somewhere and go with that one.

As far as what I would love to see, I am more a old school Batgirl fan or Jim Weathers O-Girl fan, but I will do by best to support whatever you put out.

[kingles]

I completely agree with this. My view is that any of the moral minority that wants to make waves over this can go to hell. More terrible stuff happens in classic mainstream movies like 'The Godfather' or 'Scarface' than has been depicted in ANY SHiP vid I have EVER watched...and I've seen a lot of them.

Devil's-advocate: "The Godfather" and "Scarface" aren't meant to inspire role models, nor does their genre call for it (in fact, the entire point of both films can be summed up as "act like this, and you will live a horrible life and die a horrible death", can it not?). I've known that a lot of people argue that the superhero genre must inherently be a moralistic, role-model genre.

So... have your villain act as nasty to the heroine as you want, just make sure he gets his comeuppance, I guess. I dunno.

Doesn't Al Pacino's character 'win' in "The Godfather"? I'll admit I'm not a big fan of gangster movies and it's been a long time since I've seen it.

[kingles]

But torture that included the humiliation and mental breakdown if a heroine is something I would lace into the content.

So anyway...Yes to this. Really for me psychological domination and psychological peril trumps physical domination or peril alone. Any mind control scenarios are appreciated...as always.

[Disciple]

I completely agree with this. My view is that any of the moral minority that wants to make waves over this can go to hell. More terrible stuff happens in classic mainstream movies like 'The Godfather' or 'Scarface' than has been depicted in ANY SHiP vid I have EVER watched...and I've seen a lot of them.

Devil's-advocate: "The Godfather" and "Scarface" aren't meant to inspire role models, nor does their genre call for it (in fact, the entire point of both films can be summed up as "act like this, and you will live a horrible life and die a horrible death", can it not?). I've known that a lot of people argue that the superhero genre must inherently be a moralistic, role-model genre.

So... have your villain act as nasty to the heroine as you want, just make sure he gets his comeuppance, I guess. I dunno.

Doesn't Al Pacino's character 'win' in "The Godfather"? I'll admit I'm not a big fan of gangster movies and it's been a long time since I've seen it.

To a point, but over the next couple of sequels, he basically watches everyone he cares about die horribly, before dying broken and alone in his homeland.

[CustomSuperheroines]

Thank you for everyone who is in support of this project - it's definitely a step into new territory for us and for the genre in general and we're excited to be taking the plunge!!

We aren't interested in taking old concepts, characters, or stories and remaking them - but I will learn from, adapt from, and pay homage to them. Although we are still ironing out the concept, it will involve 5 different "types" of female warriors who will be our Heroines. I'm deciding how "comic book" I want to go with this - after watching the 3rd part of Shadowgirl tonight, I am definitely leaning towards a very comic book world which fans can get lost in a fantasy world we create.

[Heroine Addict]

But Mr X it would not be this community if they did not have something to bitch about. I think I have been around too long and seen far too many of these good ideas that turn into bitch sessions.

To be fair, there hasn't really been any "bitching" on this thread. Some people have merely voiced concerns over the viability and/or potential consequences of a mainstream series which depicts the sexual humiliation of superheroines.

I know the team who produced Batgirl: Spoiled. The small amount of backlash on a girl getting raped is inconsequential to their success and their abrupt shutdown. Copyright was the issue. People are going to speak out. Activists of all sorts - Eminem is a prime example of overcoming the backlash that will be thrown at you. I seriously doubt that he would have been successful focusing his concern on people who may be opposed to his content.

Once I make the decision to produce a series under a mainstream heading, it will be just that. Fetish producers will remain unaffected. As I said before, the decision has already been made. Time will tell.

Unfortunately, once the product is out there, you have little or no control over how it's received and perceived. You may insist that it's not fetish, but anything which depicts rape or sexual assault as a thrilling peril will be taken as fetishization by a significant section of the mainstream audience.

As for the effect on fetish producers, some of them are already struggling to get Visa processing to sell certain types of content. When (not if) people object to the fetishization of rape in your series, it will take the moral guardians 2 seconds of Googling to follow the trail of breadcrumbs back to the defunct Defeated Heroines project. And then the spotlight falls on this whole industry.

[rayman]

Geez the guy announces he's going to do some content that may get picked on more mainstream channels and we get a giant thread criticizing him.

I wish him the best. The more the merrier.

Damn right Mr,X
Most superheroine projects that have hit trouble, from what I know, have been down to copyright infringement, something I am very familiar with from dealing with patents and copywrights on printer consumables when I worked on a development team, at one point HP actualy were trying to look into gaving a patent on mixing colours to make greeb ib a printer,
Xena is yet another example of a show that had plenty of violence towards women. If yu like blood check out Pain Killer Jane naother netwrok sshow.

All I can say is give Logan some credit for what he is doing, and realise he will have bene having indepth discussions with these othe rplatforms and they wil be much more concerned about their reputations and they will know what has flagged up concern previously.

Good luck Logan and team I am willing you forward with this project.

[CustomSuperheroines]

As for the effect on fetish producers, some of them are already struggling to get Visa processing to sell certain types of content. When (not if) people object to the fetishization of rape in your series, it will take the moral guardians 2 seconds of Googling to follow the trail of breadcrumbs back to the defunct Defeated Heroines project. And then the spotlight falls on this whole industry.

If that is what happens, then that is what happens. I'm not concerned with a small chance that something may happen here. The whole concept of mainstream concept creating backlash on a smaller fetish community is a bit far-fetched and complete paranoia. I guess we shall see what happens as we move forward with the project.

[mrestfla]

I wish you all the best Logan! A few $ from fans of this forum won't make much difference. You will need to land The CW or a cable television network. I am sure you know this. It's been tried in the past and failed. I hope your concept changes a few minds of the execs.

[Visitor]

Good luck and I hope to see the results.

Mainstream has changed in definition with cable and other platforms from the 1960s and 70s when Batman and Wonder Woman were first aired. Back then they were on in the first hour of commercial primetime, the Family Hour, where the FCC had stricter rules on what could be shown since it was a traditional time for children to watch TV. Now a days even commercial TV airs content in that slot that they couldn't do in the last primetime hour in the 1970s.

I'm sure some group will find out and produce some backlash. But that happens on almost any content.

[dbud]

As for the effect on fetish producers, some of them are already struggling to get Visa processing to sell certain types of content. When (not if) people object to the fetishization of rape in your series, it will take the moral guardians 2 seconds of Googling to follow the trail of breadcrumbs back to the defunct Defeated Heroines project. And then the spotlight falls on this whole industry.

If that is what happens, then that is what happens. I'm not concerned with a small chance that something may happen here. The whole concept of mainstream concept creating backlash on a smaller fetish community is a bit far-fetched and complete paranoia. I guess we shall see what happens as we move forward with the project.

Totally agree with HL's response here. And besides it is not HL's job to protect the super heroine peril fetish community from being looked at. That's totally unrealistic. His only obligation is to pursue his career and goals as best he can. If this is what he is trying to do, great for him and if it's good, great for the viewers too. But the idea that he should be worried about some hypothetical repercussions is ridiculous. I'm sure the first horror moves were thought of the same way but now even extreme torture porn ones don't cause most people to bat an eye so I hardly think a few heroines getting worked over will do much.