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Episode 1 American Alien
Politics are more heavy-handed than ever before, seeping out of almost every subplot. There are too many allusions to real-world Age of Trump, and not enough fantastical, purely entertaining elements. I think Black Lightning does the progressive politics thing in a much more natural fashion than in Supergirl, where it often seems forced and injected. Black Lightning's approach is edgy, but Supergirl's is just pandering.
New lineup of characters seems boring and uninspired, from what I've both seen and read about so far. The most useless one so far is Nia Nal, who is little other than a human virtue signal. But Brainy is pretty bad, too, although I get that the series needs to have some sort of tech geek. Alex Danvers has settled into the woke hipster haircut, presumably to attract a legion of progressive-leaning fans. At least she can kick ass.
On the other hand, Supergirl is still no Mary Sue here, and for that, at least, we can be thankful that in her universe, humans continue to produce technologies that can somehow bind her, repel her out of windows, and otherwise thwart her in ways that allow villains to escape. Here's hoping for some kryptonite moments in the near future.
Supergirl Season Four
Episode 2 Fallout
You didn't think that the politics in Supergirl could beat the viewer more harshly over the head? Well, they can. This week's episode is largely a thinly veiled allegory for Trump's immigration policies: alien (immigrants) always good, human (dumb Amurrikans / white Trump voters / Republican bigots) bad.
Rhona Mitra does give a good performance as the xenophobic Mercy Graves - her human chauvinism and attitude is believable, and there's a very brief fight between her and Lena (the only real fight of the episode). We also can be thankful that Lynda Carter is leaving the series (the president having been revealed as a chameleon-like Durlan) because although she was obviously fantastic as Wonder Woman in the 70s, her stint as President Marsdin wasn't particularly convincing acting-wise. Supergirl describes President Marsdin's qualities as "compassion" and defending "equal rights for all" but that's not mainly what a President is supposed to do ..a president is supposed to lead and to defend the nation. Carter never projected that kind of confident authority in the role (partially the writers' fault as well).
Some of the other acting is pretty stilted, which is more the fault of the casting. For example, we're supposed to believe that the owner of a pizza shop who was friendly to Brainy moments ago suddenly becomes fiercely angry and xenophobic (along with his Italian thugs who appear out of nowhere) when Brainiac 5's Coluan image is revealed. But the pizza guys look bored, and not really committed to beating anyone up.
Also I noticed some interesting things in the pizza shop scene which I don't know if they are intentional errors and/or allusions:
1) The pizza proprietor's name is revealed to be "Massimo" and yet his shop is called Shahid's Pizza, which is Arabic. Doesn't make sense.
2) "Shahid" in Arabic means "martyr". Is this an allusion to Agent Liberty telling Mercy to be careful not to make Supergirl a "martyr" with her kryptonite dispersal plan (to which Otis makes reference when he recalls the dispersement of lead to stop the Daxamites)..or is that a coincidence?
3) Brainy clearly orders 12 pizzas...then only walks out with five. Continuity error, or was he deliberately shortchanged by Massimo?
Regardless, the constant barrage of politics is hard to take. Equally egregious, when compared to Jimmy Olsen's speech from last season, is the speech that Nia makes to try to convince James to take editorial sides on the human-alien issue. Olsen argues for journalistic impartiality, but Nia Nal (who in real life is a transgender activist) is a human social justice machine, badgering him until he finally gives in and writes his opinion piece taking sides with the aliens. It's a blatant depiction of how the progressive messaging agenda takes hold of media organs that were previously about delivering news, or sports, or entertainment, etc. The word 'justice' is repeated over and over in this episode (James Olsen finally types it into his editorial headline) like a mantra straight out of Deuteronomy 16:20.
Then Supergirl drives the exact same point home with her speech to the nation...tolerance, etc. She says aliens should be judged not by how they look and where they're from, but by what they do. But isn't what someone does determined by their CULTURE? And their culture is determined, in fact, by WHERE THEY'RE FROM. And the culture therefore determines HOW THEY LOOK. Finally, in this imaginary scenario with aliens who have superpowers, Agent Liberty has a valid point about why the humans should be fearful of entities among them who have superstrength and yet remain free and unregulated. Supergirl supposedly wouldn't use her powers for evil, but any other alien could easily do so to take advantage of their situation, right? Yet Supergirl's platitude-filled speech sails right past this perfectly logical argument, which one could say is based on realism and caution rather than just fear. In Supergirl's world, an alien registry for those with special powers would make sense for the nation *and* for the DEO's database especially.
It was visibly difficult to get through this episode without cringing multiple times. I wonder how many people watching it from this forum felt the same way? Maybe before, a few of you thought that the takeover of pop-culture media (like comics) was being exaggerated, or even that it might be an unreservedly good thing for that to happen. Do you still believe that now, after watching this episode of Supergirl affected by so much biased speechifying?
Luckily, we can look forward to some serious danger in the next episode, as Supergirl drops out of the sky and hopefully suffers some decent blows from Mercy and her team. Hopefully much more peril and much less hopeful Mary Sue and kum-ba-ya for Melissa next week. Some humility is in order.
You didn't think that the politics in Supergirl could beat the viewer more harshly over the head? Well, they can. This week's episode is largely a thinly veiled allegory for Trump's immigration policies: alien (immigrants) always good, human (dumb Amurrikans / white Trump voters / Republican bigots) bad.
Rhona Mitra does give a good performance as the xenophobic Mercy Graves - her human chauvinism and attitude is believable, and there's a very brief fight between her and Lena (the only real fight of the episode). We also can be thankful that Lynda Carter is leaving the series (the president having been revealed as a chameleon-like Durlan) because although she was obviously fantastic as Wonder Woman in the 70s, her stint as President Marsdin wasn't particularly convincing acting-wise. Supergirl describes President Marsdin's qualities as "compassion" and defending "equal rights for all" but that's not mainly what a President is supposed to do ..a president is supposed to lead and to defend the nation. Carter never projected that kind of confident authority in the role (partially the writers' fault as well).
Some of the other acting is pretty stilted, which is more the fault of the casting. For example, we're supposed to believe that the owner of a pizza shop who was friendly to Brainy moments ago suddenly becomes fiercely angry and xenophobic (along with his Italian thugs who appear out of nowhere) when Brainiac 5's Coluan image is revealed. But the pizza guys look bored, and not really committed to beating anyone up.
Also I noticed some interesting things in the pizza shop scene which I don't know if they are intentional errors and/or allusions:
1) The pizza proprietor's name is revealed to be "Massimo" and yet his shop is called Shahid's Pizza, which is Arabic. Doesn't make sense.
2) "Shahid" in Arabic means "martyr". Is this an allusion to Agent Liberty telling Mercy to be careful not to make Supergirl a "martyr" with her kryptonite dispersal plan (to which Otis makes reference when he recalls the dispersement of lead to stop the Daxamites)..or is that a coincidence?
3) Brainy clearly orders 12 pizzas...then only walks out with five. Continuity error, or was he deliberately shortchanged by Massimo?
Regardless, the constant barrage of politics is hard to take. Equally egregious, when compared to Jimmy Olsen's speech from last season, is the speech that Nia makes to try to convince James to take editorial sides on the human-alien issue. Olsen argues for journalistic impartiality, but Nia Nal (who in real life is a transgender activist) is a human social justice machine, badgering him until he finally gives in and writes his opinion piece taking sides with the aliens. It's a blatant depiction of how the progressive messaging agenda takes hold of media organs that were previously about delivering news, or sports, or entertainment, etc. The word 'justice' is repeated over and over in this episode (James Olsen finally types it into his editorial headline) like a mantra straight out of Deuteronomy 16:20.
Then Supergirl drives the exact same point home with her speech to the nation...tolerance, etc. She says aliens should be judged not by how they look and where they're from, but by what they do. But isn't what someone does determined by their CULTURE? And their culture is determined, in fact, by WHERE THEY'RE FROM. And the culture therefore determines HOW THEY LOOK. Finally, in this imaginary scenario with aliens who have superpowers, Agent Liberty has a valid point about why the humans should be fearful of entities among them who have superstrength and yet remain free and unregulated. Supergirl supposedly wouldn't use her powers for evil, but any other alien could easily do so to take advantage of their situation, right? Yet Supergirl's platitude-filled speech sails right past this perfectly logical argument, which one could say is based on realism and caution rather than just fear. In Supergirl's world, an alien registry for those with special powers would make sense for the nation *and* for the DEO's database especially.
It was visibly difficult to get through this episode without cringing multiple times. I wonder how many people watching it from this forum felt the same way? Maybe before, a few of you thought that the takeover of pop-culture media (like comics) was being exaggerated, or even that it might be an unreservedly good thing for that to happen. Do you still believe that now, after watching this episode of Supergirl affected by so much biased speechifying?
Luckily, we can look forward to some serious danger in the next episode, as Supergirl drops out of the sky and hopefully suffers some decent blows from Mercy and her team. Hopefully much more peril and much less hopeful Mary Sue and kum-ba-ya for Melissa next week. Some humility is in order.
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GeekyPornCritic
I love the second episode. The writers mean business for season 4. I don't think the politics were only targeting immigration. I think they were targeting all forms of racism from African Americans, legal immigrates, Muslims, etc. The rally outside the White House resembles the incident in Charleston, NC.
Your culture is NOT determined by where you are from. You determine your culture. I use myself as an example. I am from a heavily black neighborhood and school. I don't like rap, hip-hop, urban, soul, jazz, saggy pants, etc. I don't date black women. I only prefer beautiful white women. I use my e's and r's when speaking. Most people assume I am a Republican, when I am actually a liberal. Do you see what I did? I decided my own culture and lifestyle. My birthplace did not determine my life and decisions to become the man that I am.
The way a person looks is mostly NOT determine by their culture. We have no control over how we look unless we have plastic surgery or make other body changes such as large earrings.
Conservative media uses their agenda in their media just like progressives. The media has been the same for centuries. People are acting as if this is news. Leaders of the press have always put their agendas in their media throughout time. Nothing has changed. There is nothing wrong with it because everyone has their own point of view.
Conservatives complain about progressives' agenda in sports, but conservatives did not allow African American in major sports for many years. They prevented blacks from being in their media. Thus, their agenda of saying they were the superior race was always in the media.
Conservatives criticize black on black crime, and ignore white on white crime that also has a high rate. These rates are high because you will most likely know the aggressor as people know more people from the same race than other races.
Your culture is NOT determined by where you are from. You determine your culture. I use myself as an example. I am from a heavily black neighborhood and school. I don't like rap, hip-hop, urban, soul, jazz, saggy pants, etc. I don't date black women. I only prefer beautiful white women. I use my e's and r's when speaking. Most people assume I am a Republican, when I am actually a liberal. Do you see what I did? I decided my own culture and lifestyle. My birthplace did not determine my life and decisions to become the man that I am.
The way a person looks is mostly NOT determine by their culture. We have no control over how we look unless we have plastic surgery or make other body changes such as large earrings.
Conservative media uses their agenda in their media just like progressives. The media has been the same for centuries. People are acting as if this is news. Leaders of the press have always put their agendas in their media throughout time. Nothing has changed. There is nothing wrong with it because everyone has their own point of view.
Conservatives complain about progressives' agenda in sports, but conservatives did not allow African American in major sports for many years. They prevented blacks from being in their media. Thus, their agenda of saying they were the superior race was always in the media.
Conservatives criticize black on black crime, and ignore white on white crime that also has a high rate. These rates are high because you will most likely know the aggressor as people know more people from the same race than other races.
Black on Black crime...White on White crime....
Crime is the key word there! Stop this bullshit about it is conservatives that are evil and liberals want to tear the country apart. If people would stop thinking with their emotions and more with logic it would become a lot easier to have discussions and not cast each other as evil!
Crime is the key word there! Stop this bullshit about it is conservatives that are evil and liberals want to tear the country apart. If people would stop thinking with their emotions and more with logic it would become a lot easier to have discussions and not cast each other as evil!
All of this is the case, sure, Geeky. And I'm glad you're a distinct, unique individual. But I'm not talking about the individual. You made a conscious decision to individualize yourself. Most people don't do that. For most people, the culture that they are from DOES determine a lot about them, including things that Supergirl said in her speech. One of the reasons you've distinguished yourself (other than pure self improvement) was to get away from that, right? So the exception can sometime prove the rule. And please note how the casting people were careful to cast the alien-haters as almost
exclusively white: the pizza guys, the people yelling 'roaches go home' in the riot, Otis and Mercy. They were careful not to portray any POCs as racist alien-haters, because (according to the Progressive Stack), POCs cannot be 'racist', only biased.
When you're talking about blacks not being allowed in sports, and other segregationism in public life, that is now FIVE GENERATIONS AGO (given that we're now in Generation Z, and the boomers were the *offspring* of the last generation enforcing segregation). And though that segregation (and Jim Crow-ism etc) was led by people with 'conservative' mindsets, a lot of them were Democrats. Mainstream Democrats and southern Democrats. Not necessarily Republicans. And at this point in time, if you look at the various efforts and agendas to 're-segregate' into identity groups (for example on campus) most of that is being done by ultra-progressives. It is not the College Republicans who are demanding to college administrators to have a campus free of white people on a specific day (like at Evergreen) or 'safe space' groups that exclude 'unsafe' races or genders (i.e., cis white males). It's the progressives who are doing such excluding now.
You're right, the politics were not JUST targeting immigration. It just so happens that the "aliens" best represent the (illegal or undocumented) immigrants, because their right to be here is most questioned. The question in Supergirl is whether beings different enough to be from another planet, with superpowers and with radically different metabolisms, have the right to be citizens of the country. The comparison to the immigrants stands because (like the aliens) the immigrants are the MOST different, i.e. the least acculturated.
The rally outside the White House did resemble Charleston somewhat, but it could represent any number of recent incidents which are similar, like Antifa battling the Proud Boys on the streets of Portland (while the ultra-liberal cops did not intervene) or it could represent the Women's March against Trump on Washington and their counterprotestors, etc. The main thing is not the allusion to Charleston but the fact that the Supergirl riot is NOT showing extremist-looking people from both sides (the Charleston rally was full of extremists, remember?), it is showing average-looking people. So more than Charleston, it's an allegory for how the *mainstream* (not just the fringes) of the country is split in half, or at least how a progressive TV writer looks at the split. The progressive writer doesn't regard the split as 'rational', by thinking, 'Hey, there are two sides to an issue, let's examine both of them, let's portray both rationally.' Such a writer deliberately depicts the other side (approximately 40% of the entire country!) as raving angry lunatics instead, which is pretty much what they're doing here. If you are a far-left progressive (which is perhaps 5% of the population, if that) and you deliberately portray a hundred million people who disagree with you as crazy, that is also known as some serious 'gaslighting'.
Yes, Season 4 means 'business'. The business of pushing a very specific agenda which (so far) overshadows the entertainment and fantasy value of the actual product. Again...let's compare this to the fight against terrorism. Most Muslims obviously aren't terrorists, so the idea of registering all Muslims because of the terrorist actions of a few is of course highly unfair, and I wouldn't agree with it. I voted for Hillary, not Trump. But, in this fantasy world, if most undocumented immigrants had superpowers and could therefore be dangerous, wouldn't you *want* to register them and keep track of them? Of course. Our country's founding documents ensure life, liberty and happiness, but the Constitution says nothing about superpowers. It would be a matter of public safety to at least monitor alien activity.
So yes, this episode got me 'thinking', and got me pulled out of the mere fantasy world of superheroes in order to consider real-world issues. That, of course, is the progressive writers' intention. What it DIDN'T do is make me think exactly like them. Again, I consider myself a mainstream, centrist classical liberal and I do think that some ideas that were once considered 'progressive' generations ago (like women's rights and LGBT rights) are now mainstream and should be accepted by all. But at the same time, watching Supergirl didn't turn me into an 'NPC' - I can think for myself, and I can stay outside of the far-left lockstep authoritarian mindset. And by your previous post, you've clearly stated that you can think for yourself as well.
I'll continue watching the show. Why not, it's free. And who doesn't love Melissa Benoist. She generally stays out of the political fray and just does her job. But I'll also continue to cringe when I'm beaten over the head with far-left politics.
exclusively white: the pizza guys, the people yelling 'roaches go home' in the riot, Otis and Mercy. They were careful not to portray any POCs as racist alien-haters, because (according to the Progressive Stack), POCs cannot be 'racist', only biased.
When you're talking about blacks not being allowed in sports, and other segregationism in public life, that is now FIVE GENERATIONS AGO (given that we're now in Generation Z, and the boomers were the *offspring* of the last generation enforcing segregation). And though that segregation (and Jim Crow-ism etc) was led by people with 'conservative' mindsets, a lot of them were Democrats. Mainstream Democrats and southern Democrats. Not necessarily Republicans. And at this point in time, if you look at the various efforts and agendas to 're-segregate' into identity groups (for example on campus) most of that is being done by ultra-progressives. It is not the College Republicans who are demanding to college administrators to have a campus free of white people on a specific day (like at Evergreen) or 'safe space' groups that exclude 'unsafe' races or genders (i.e., cis white males). It's the progressives who are doing such excluding now.
You're right, the politics were not JUST targeting immigration. It just so happens that the "aliens" best represent the (illegal or undocumented) immigrants, because their right to be here is most questioned. The question in Supergirl is whether beings different enough to be from another planet, with superpowers and with radically different metabolisms, have the right to be citizens of the country. The comparison to the immigrants stands because (like the aliens) the immigrants are the MOST different, i.e. the least acculturated.
The rally outside the White House did resemble Charleston somewhat, but it could represent any number of recent incidents which are similar, like Antifa battling the Proud Boys on the streets of Portland (while the ultra-liberal cops did not intervene) or it could represent the Women's March against Trump on Washington and their counterprotestors, etc. The main thing is not the allusion to Charleston but the fact that the Supergirl riot is NOT showing extremist-looking people from both sides (the Charleston rally was full of extremists, remember?), it is showing average-looking people. So more than Charleston, it's an allegory for how the *mainstream* (not just the fringes) of the country is split in half, or at least how a progressive TV writer looks at the split. The progressive writer doesn't regard the split as 'rational', by thinking, 'Hey, there are two sides to an issue, let's examine both of them, let's portray both rationally.' Such a writer deliberately depicts the other side (approximately 40% of the entire country!) as raving angry lunatics instead, which is pretty much what they're doing here. If you are a far-left progressive (which is perhaps 5% of the population, if that) and you deliberately portray a hundred million people who disagree with you as crazy, that is also known as some serious 'gaslighting'.
Yes, Season 4 means 'business'. The business of pushing a very specific agenda which (so far) overshadows the entertainment and fantasy value of the actual product. Again...let's compare this to the fight against terrorism. Most Muslims obviously aren't terrorists, so the idea of registering all Muslims because of the terrorist actions of a few is of course highly unfair, and I wouldn't agree with it. I voted for Hillary, not Trump. But, in this fantasy world, if most undocumented immigrants had superpowers and could therefore be dangerous, wouldn't you *want* to register them and keep track of them? Of course. Our country's founding documents ensure life, liberty and happiness, but the Constitution says nothing about superpowers. It would be a matter of public safety to at least monitor alien activity.
So yes, this episode got me 'thinking', and got me pulled out of the mere fantasy world of superheroes in order to consider real-world issues. That, of course, is the progressive writers' intention. What it DIDN'T do is make me think exactly like them. Again, I consider myself a mainstream, centrist classical liberal and I do think that some ideas that were once considered 'progressive' generations ago (like women's rights and LGBT rights) are now mainstream and should be accepted by all. But at the same time, watching Supergirl didn't turn me into an 'NPC' - I can think for myself, and I can stay outside of the far-left lockstep authoritarian mindset. And by your previous post, you've clearly stated that you can think for yourself as well.
I'll continue watching the show. Why not, it's free. And who doesn't love Melissa Benoist. She generally stays out of the political fray and just does her job. But I'll also continue to cringe when I'm beaten over the head with far-left politics.
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Bert
Ughh. If a show wants to tackle current events in its storylines, that's perfectly fine. The problem with episode two isn't that the writers chose to engage in the politics of immigration and racism, it's that they were so utterly ham-fisted about it. I feel like I have a concussion from being beaten over the head so aggressively. I largely agree with the show's angle on this and I still hated the episode. I'm glad there's a season four of a TV show focused on one of my favorite heroines. It's kind of a dream come true that we have a beautiful and talented actress who wears a great Supergirl costume and fights the good fight every week, even including generous moments of peril. Sadly, after this latest episode I may stop "watching" the show and just fast forward to the action scenes. Shitty writing sucks.
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batgirl1969
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I just want to see Dreamer Nia capture Supergirl and force her make love to her through mind control!!
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DrDominator9
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I can't help it but I keep returning to the comment that J'onn made to Supergirl that she was a normal looking, acceptable white female and that was skewing her reactions and her opinions. It's quite true. And frankly that goes to the heart of the issue in this season. One might try to imagine the feeling of facing racist behavior but truly integrating the visceral feel of being an object of such behavior, especially on a repeated basis throughout your life, that is almost impossible to internalize. Therefore it seems natural for Supergirl in her continuing role as a beacon of hope and a force for unity to give such a national speech within the confines of her character. Viewed in that light, I didn't think it came off as preachy from her or even that preachy from the writers. To me they are treading a line here and, for me, they have not crossed over yet into annoying heavy handedness.
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bushwackerbob
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Is it just me or is anyone else think the show has it all wrong regarding the reaction to Lynda Carter's alien President revelation. First of all, the protestors outside the White House were portrayed as crazed lunatics with unjustified anger while the show's main cast seemed to shrug off the revelation (I know many of them already knew). In the real world, if someone that I voted for President was discovered not to be a naturalized citizen, that they perpetrated this fraud on the American people, I would be mad as hell and so should every American who values the rule of law and the constitution. The constitution is not just a piece of paper that means whatever you want it to mean, it is the foundation of our republic. Whether we are talking immigration or any other issue, we cannot just pick and choose what laws we will follow and those we will not. I guess the writers for Supergirl see the constitution as a pesky little problem or plot device and not a sacred and important document that is the legal foundation for our country.
They really do brush the Constitution aside, Bushwackerbob. The part that doesn't say *anything* about beings from other planets with superpowers, for example. And it's done in the name of making the ham-fisted political statement, not in the name of good storytelling and action-packed episodes.
And DrDominator, the comment J'onn made about Supergirl not being able to understand because she passes for a human white female is a direct reference to the hatred that third-wave far-leftists have lately for "white feminism" (i.e., the kind of second wave feminism, about equality under the law and pursuing equal rights through government, that Heroineburgh supports and that is from the generation of Hillary Clinton and Gloria Steinem and Lynda Carter, etc.). The whole thing about 'passing' is huge these days among the outrage culture millennials, which is why it's so strange that the plot MacGuffin of Lena's Image Transducer is being used. Because this allows aliens to 'pass' for human, and progressive types shouldn't be in favor of such devices. Progressives want marginalized folks to be out and proud, not hiding in the shadows and kowtowing to the oppressive 'Western white cis male' dominant culture. Progressives should be utterly against Lena's device and opposed to her capitalist motives in making money from the fear and misery of others. So it doesn't make any sense that the supposed 'right wing patriot' side (Mercy, Otis & Agent Liberty etc) are the only ones who want the aliens to show their faces!
Not only that, but Nia also 'passes' easily for a girl - there's no outward indication that she's transgender until she reveals it to Olsen. With most transgender individuals (and I know a bunch who are my FB friends) you can tell that they've transitioned. But with Nia, her femininity is just so conveniently seamless because the writers want to 'spring' it as a surprise on the viewership. The whole thing doesn't even make any sense.
Batgirl, according to the events of Episode 2 where Nia helps save Brainy, you're much more likely to see Nia and Brainy make out in the future.
Even though the motives for such a scene would be political on behalf of the writers, I'd rather see that kind of romance than a dozen more politically biased speeches.
Again, I'll keep watching while gritting my teeth, and hopefully this arc will be over soon. Nobody is watching the other CW shows???
And DrDominator, the comment J'onn made about Supergirl not being able to understand because she passes for a human white female is a direct reference to the hatred that third-wave far-leftists have lately for "white feminism" (i.e., the kind of second wave feminism, about equality under the law and pursuing equal rights through government, that Heroineburgh supports and that is from the generation of Hillary Clinton and Gloria Steinem and Lynda Carter, etc.). The whole thing about 'passing' is huge these days among the outrage culture millennials, which is why it's so strange that the plot MacGuffin of Lena's Image Transducer is being used. Because this allows aliens to 'pass' for human, and progressive types shouldn't be in favor of such devices. Progressives want marginalized folks to be out and proud, not hiding in the shadows and kowtowing to the oppressive 'Western white cis male' dominant culture. Progressives should be utterly against Lena's device and opposed to her capitalist motives in making money from the fear and misery of others. So it doesn't make any sense that the supposed 'right wing patriot' side (Mercy, Otis & Agent Liberty etc) are the only ones who want the aliens to show their faces!
Not only that, but Nia also 'passes' easily for a girl - there's no outward indication that she's transgender until she reveals it to Olsen. With most transgender individuals (and I know a bunch who are my FB friends) you can tell that they've transitioned. But with Nia, her femininity is just so conveniently seamless because the writers want to 'spring' it as a surprise on the viewership. The whole thing doesn't even make any sense.
Batgirl, according to the events of Episode 2 where Nia helps save Brainy, you're much more likely to see Nia and Brainy make out in the future.
Even though the motives for such a scene would be political on behalf of the writers, I'd rather see that kind of romance than a dozen more politically biased speeches.
Again, I'll keep watching while gritting my teeth, and hopefully this arc will be over soon. Nobody is watching the other CW shows???
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bushwackerbob
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Now admittedly, I am not a constitutional scholar, but the argument that "the constitution says nothing about aliens" is a specious argument. One could also say that about issues such as abortion, gay marriage, LBGTQ issues, digital copyright, etc., that the constitution does not explicitly deal with those issues, my point being that the world around us is constantly changing, the issues of the day constantly change, but that we have a constitution that does not change (unless one amends it) that is imbued with principles that inform how we carry out the rule of law, and how we interpret the law. It is an all-purpose fact sheet created in the 18th century that is the template for how we interpret the issues of today that the founders would have found unfathomable. The constitution clearly states that one has to be a naturalized citizen of the United States to become President, no wiggle room there, that is pretty explicit.
Right, I agree. What I meant by my previous post is that the Constitution does not obligate the United States Government to treat superpowered aliens from another planet as citizens. Whether these aliens are even refugees or asylum seekers hasn't even been established. The Supergirl series has never established why these aliens migrated to Earth or what they are running from. Wouldn't that oppressor (somewhere out in space) be the *real* threat that Supergirl would want to stop, because wouldn't that threat eventually come to Earth itself and threaten everyone on it? I don't think this xenophobia story has been thought through very well.
And as for the President being an alien - yes, Marsdin, having been revealed as a Durlan, should be prosecuted as a traitor and inflitrator. The Constitution is quite clear that a fraud had been perpetrated on the American people. She shouldn't just get to resign and fade away. The perfect thing to happen to Marsdin at this point would be for her to be captured by the anti-alien forces and put in some serious peril...the kind we haven't seem Lynda Carter in since the 70s.
And as for the President being an alien - yes, Marsdin, having been revealed as a Durlan, should be prosecuted as a traitor and inflitrator. The Constitution is quite clear that a fraud had been perpetrated on the American people. She shouldn't just get to resign and fade away. The perfect thing to happen to Marsdin at this point would be for her to be captured by the anti-alien forces and put in some serious peril...the kind we haven't seem Lynda Carter in since the 70s.
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DrDominator9
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Now that is an episode I would love to see: Marsden hauled to federal prison and Supergirl arrives to plead the case, gets cited by the judge for contempt of court and gets shackled in kryptonite only to be whisked away by bribed guard's to the hands of the Graves siblings.
bushwackerbob wrote: ↑5 years agoNow admittedly, I am not a constitutional scholar, but the argument that "the constitution says nothing about aliens" is a specious argument. One could also say that about issues such as abortion, gay marriage, LBGTQ issues, digital copyright, etc., that the constitution does not explicitly deal with those issues, my point being that the world around us is constantly changing, the issues of the day constantly change, but that we have a constitution that does not change (unless one amends it) that is imbued with principles that inform how we carry out the rule of law, and how we interpret the law. It is an all-purpose fact sheet created in the 18th century that is the template for how we interpret the issues of today that the founders would have found unfathomable. The constitution clearly states that one has to be a naturalized citizen of the United States to become President, no wiggle room there, that is pretty explicit.
A person must be born a citizen of the US to meet the constitutional requirements to be President of the US. A naturalized citizen does not meet the qualifications found in the US Constitution.
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GeekyPornCritic
Marsden needs to be arrested. The show is on tin ice and will fall if Marsden is not charged for criminal impersonation. Supergirl cannot defend Marsden for breaking the law. Sure Marsden is not evil. She has not attempt to or harmed anyone. The DEO may be forced to arrest Marsden.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoNow that is an episode I would love to see: Marsden hauled to federal prison and Supergirl arrives to plead the case, gets cited by the judge for contempt of court and gets shackled in kryptonite only to be whisked away by bribed guard's to the hands of the Graves siblings.
Supergirl can fight against discrimination, but she cannot defend any crimes by aliens. She doesn't understand not all crimes involve violence and murder. She will stop the bad guys from invading the planet, but have not arrested a president who violated the constitution through impersonation.
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DrDominator9
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I agree completely GPC. They don't have to make it the full focus of the show but you're right, Marsden absolutely needs to be arrested.GeekyPornCritic wrote: ↑5 years agoMarsden needs to be arrested. The show is on tin ice and will fall if Marsden is not charged for criminal impersonation. Supergirl cannot defend Marsden for breaking the law. Sure Marsden is not evil. She has not attempt to or harmed anyone. The DEO may be forced to arrest Marsden.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoNow that is an episode I would love to see: Marsden hauled to federal prison and Supergirl arrives to plead the case, gets cited by the judge for contempt of court and gets shackled in kryptonite only to be whisked away by bribed guard's to the hands of the Graves siblings.
Supergirl can fight against discrimination, but she cannot defend any crimes by aliens. She doesn't understand not all crimes involve violence and murder. She will stop the bad guys from invading the planet, but have not arrested a president who violated the constitution through impersonation.
I think this was alluded to when the news in the background said she refused a pardon. Whether they leave it as that or revisit, who knows?DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoI agree completely GPC. They don't have to make it the full focus of the show but you're right, Marsden absolutely needs to be arrested.GeekyPornCritic wrote: ↑5 years agoMarsden needs to be arrested. The show is on tin ice and will fall if Marsden is not charged for criminal impersonation. Supergirl cannot defend Marsden for breaking the law. Sure Marsden is not evil. She has not attempt to or harmed anyone. The DEO may be forced to arrest Marsden.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoNow that is an episode I would love to see: Marsden hauled to federal prison and Supergirl arrives to plead the case, gets cited by the judge for contempt of court and gets shackled in kryptonite only to be whisked away by bribed guard's to the hands of the Graves siblings.
Supergirl can fight against discrimination, but she cannot defend any crimes by aliens. She doesn't understand not all crimes involve violence and murder. She will stop the bad guys from invading the planet, but have not arrested a president who violated the constitution through impersonation.
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bushwackerbob
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Someone ought to write a fan fiction story where Marsden is behind bars in prison and a perverted/sadistic prison guard forces her to put on a Wonder Woman costume. On a separate note, the way Marsden's story has been presented, with Marsden being portrayed so sympathetically, and the main characters lack of concern, I have a hard time seeing the show have Marsden serve serious jail time. If I am wrong I will be pleasantly surprised because I think the writers care more about being politically correct than honoring our founding document.
Bushwacker - far-left progressives straight up do not believe in the rule of law.
I seriously think they might have had Madame Marsdin (not "Marsden", sorry guys! also it's obviously a reference to William Moulton Marston, the creator of Wonder Woman) refuse the pardon because for her to be pardoned at this juncture would give credibility to Trump's use of the pardon. (Even though of course Obama used his pardoning power for the same reasons: partisan political beliefs).
But yes, a perilous scene with Lynda Carter as a national traitor, shackled in a prison, after all these years, would truly be a gift from whatever deity you might want to worship.
I seriously think they might have had Madame Marsdin (not "Marsden", sorry guys! also it's obviously a reference to William Moulton Marston, the creator of Wonder Woman) refuse the pardon because for her to be pardoned at this juncture would give credibility to Trump's use of the pardon. (Even though of course Obama used his pardoning power for the same reasons: partisan political beliefs).
But yes, a perilous scene with Lynda Carter as a national traitor, shackled in a prison, after all these years, would truly be a gift from whatever deity you might want to worship.
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GeekyPornCritic
This brings up another problem. Is her Alien Treaty void? Basically it would be like an illegal immigrant posing as president and allowing current illegal immigrants to become legal citizens.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoI agree completely GPC. They don't have to make it the full focus of the show but you're right, Marsden absolutely needs to be arrested.GeekyPornCritic wrote: ↑5 years agoMarsden needs to be arrested. The show is on tin ice and will fall if Marsden is not charged for criminal impersonation. Supergirl cannot defend Marsden for breaking the law. Sure Marsden is not evil. She has not attempt to or harmed anyone. The DEO may be forced to arrest Marsden.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoNow that is an episode I would love to see: Marsden hauled to federal prison and Supergirl arrives to plead the case, gets cited by the judge for contempt of court and gets shackled in kryptonite only to be whisked away by bribed guard's to the hands of the Graves siblings.
Supergirl can fight against discrimination, but she cannot defend any crimes by aliens. She doesn't understand not all crimes involve violence and murder. She will stop the bad guys from invading the planet, but have not arrested a president who violated the constitution through impersonation.
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DrDominator9
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Inasmuch as it is a treaty, I believe that might require the approval of congress. If so, it would be valid. If congress didn't sign off on it, it's probably null and void. But I'm sure there are scholars out there more than willing to show me up for the ignoramus they think I am.GeekyPornCritic wrote: ↑5 years agoThis brings up another problem. Is her Alien Treaty void? Basically it would be like an illegal immigrant posing as president and allowing current illegal immigrants to become legal citizens.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoI agree completely GPC. They don't have to make it the full focus of the show but you're right, Marsden absolutely needs to be arrested.GeekyPornCritic wrote: ↑5 years agoMarsden needs to be arrested. The show is on tin ice and will fall if Marsden is not charged for criminal impersonation. Supergirl cannot defend Marsden for breaking the law. Sure Marsden is not evil. She has not attempt to or harmed anyone. The DEO may be forced to arrest Marsden.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoNow that is an episode I would love to see: Marsden hauled to federal prison and Supergirl arrives to plead the case, gets cited by the judge for contempt of court and gets shackled in kryptonite only to be whisked away by bribed guard's to the hands of the Graves siblings.
Supergirl can fight against discrimination, but she cannot defend any crimes by aliens. She doesn't understand not all crimes involve violence and murder. She will stop the bad guys from invading the planet, but have not arrested a president who violated the constitution through impersonation.
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Abductorenmadrid
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This all stems from the reality level that sets the rules for how a show's world works. For example if you look at the spectrum of detective / police procedural shows you can see how in one version of reality a minor detail is a major stumbling block in making a case where in another it is a non-issue with some character just saying "we can do X because of Y". What you need to do in "The Wire" is not what you need to do in "Brooklyn99".
The Supergirl show has a world with make-believe tech, make believe law-and-order and make-believe tides of ethics, sentiment and so on and on and on. If we were to write this show super "real" the plot would still be bogged down on legal procedure in the senate and the house while cops and feds would be waiting for warrants and building a case to find who was in on a plot to get an Alien made president ..... and for this show that would be YAWN central.
You have to balance the needs of entertainment versus the needs of realism, this is the balance they've ended up with.
The Supergirl show has a world with make-believe tech, make believe law-and-order and make-believe tides of ethics, sentiment and so on and on and on. If we were to write this show super "real" the plot would still be bogged down on legal procedure in the senate and the house while cops and feds would be waiting for warrants and building a case to find who was in on a plot to get an Alien made president ..... and for this show that would be YAWN central.
You have to balance the needs of entertainment versus the needs of realism, this is the balance they've ended up with.
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bushwackerbob
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I hear what you are saying in your argument, that they are taking dramatic license in order to further a plot or a storyline, you hear that criticism all the time with hospital or legal shows, "a real doctor would never do x, or a real lawyer would never do y, but they do it to further a storyline in order to make it compelling entertainment, but I think a case can be made that something of such great importance as a constitutional requirement in order to become President, well that's taking dramatic license too far in regards to expecting anyone in this universe or Supergirl's universe to undervalue this important and sacred part of the constitution. This constitutional requirement is not a minor detail. I do think you can send the President to jail without doing a deep dumpster dive into who knew what when by saying an investigation is ongoing and off-camera.Abductorenmadrid wrote: ↑5 years agoThis all stems from the reality level that sets the rules for how a show's world works. For example if you look at the spectrum of detective / police procedural shows you can see how in one version of reality a minor detail is a major stumbling block in making a case where in another it is a non-issue with some character just saying "we can do X because of Y". What you need to do in "The Wire" is not what you need to do in "Brooklyn99".
The Supergirl show has a world with make-believe tech, make believe law-and-order and make-believe tides of ethics, sentiment and so on and on and on. If we were to write this show super "real" the plot would still be bogged down on legal procedure in the senate and the house while cops and feds would be waiting for warrants and building a case to find who was in on a plot to get an Alien made president ..... and for this show that would be YAWN central.
You have to balance the needs of entertainment versus the needs of realism, this is the balance they've ended up with.
One point that hasn't been covered was when Marsden came to Earth. If she was born in the US, then she qualifies as a natural born citizen, but if she came after she was born, then she isn't legal. That whole bit was glossed over and it's implied that she came afterwards as a refugee.
They'll probably skip having her in the show because they have enough other plots to deal with between the Graves and developing the other Supergirl and what she is being used to uncover.
They'll probably skip having her in the show because they have enough other plots to deal with between the Graves and developing the other Supergirl and what she is being used to uncover.
I'm not even seeing how the Alien Act passed or ratified by Marsdin was even a 'treaty'. With exactly what other governmental entity would the United States be making a treaty with, regarding treatment of aliens? Would the US really be talking to other planets? And if the US is talking with other planets, where are the governmental representatives of those planets? And why would refugees be streaming away from those planets towards Earth, if those planets are stable enough to have governments with reliable representatives? None of that makes sense. The only way any of this alien refugee stuff makes any sense is if all of them are fleeing from some sinister murderous/conquering threat deep in space, like an evil dictator/Empire on the march.
The Blight were mentioned at one point by the Legionnaires, maybe they're fleeing the Blight? But chances are we'll never know, because the cause of
the alien refugees has never been thought out, as far as I can tell. The whole thing is mighty sloppy plot construction, and the whole thing seems pretty much driven by the writers' need to express a pro-illegal immigration agenda. At least as far as I can tell.
The Blight were mentioned at one point by the Legionnaires, maybe they're fleeing the Blight? But chances are we'll never know, because the cause of
the alien refugees has never been thought out, as far as I can tell. The whole thing is mighty sloppy plot construction, and the whole thing seems pretty much driven by the writers' need to express a pro-illegal immigration agenda. At least as far as I can tell.
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GeekyPornCritic
I wouldn't say they are pro-illegal immigration. A person can come here legally as a refugee if the courts allow it, and gain citizenship. There were reports of Trump stopping or trying to stop refugees from entering the US. They can legally come here if they are trying to escape inhumane persecution and there may be other factors. In this case, it's not illegal. Martian Manhunter falls in this group.shevek wrote: ↑5 years agoI'm not even seeing how the Alien Act passed or ratified by Marsdin was even a 'treaty'. With exactly what other governmental entity would the United States be making a treaty with, regarding treatment of aliens? Would the US really be talking to other planets? And if the US is talking with other planets, where are the governmental representatives of those planets? And why would refugees be streaming away from those planets towards Earth, if those planets are stable enough to have governments with reliable representatives? None of that makes sense. The only way any of this alien refugee stuff makes any sense is if all of them are fleeing from some sinister murderous/conquering threat deep in space, like an evil dictator/Empire on the march.
The Blight were mentioned at one point by the Legionnaires, maybe they're fleeing the Blight? But chances are we'll never know, because the cause of
the alien refugees has never been thought out, as far as I can tell. The whole thing is mighty sloppy plot construction, and the whole thing seems pretty much driven by the writers' need to express a pro-illegal immigration agenda. At least as far as I can tell.
There are 11 million people in the United States (at least) who didn't wait for any courts to allow them to do anything. They are, by definition, illegal immigrants. I'm not expressing any opinion one way or the other on whether they should stay. But the progressive writers of the show definitely
think every last one of them should. They also think that all the people who are heading north in those Honduran caravans should be allowed in, as well. And they almost certainly believe that the number of refugees that the United States legally admits (which is something like 70,000 per year, or maybe it was reduced to 30,000 or so by Trump, not sure) should be considerably increased. So yes, the writers of the show are both pro-refugee (all refugees, wherever they're from and whatever reason they're migrating) and pro-illegal immigrant. The alien situation is an allegory for both of those aspects, pretty much in equal amounts. At least as far as I can tell.
It's clear cut for Martian Manhunter to fall in that persecuted refugee group as he is one of the last (apparently not the last) Green Martians left alive after the White Martians wiped his race out. As far as the other aliens who come from a whole variety of planets, well, sure, all of them *could* be fleeing persecution, but as I said in the previous post, we are never told who the bad guys are who are doing all of the persecution somewhere out there in space.
think every last one of them should. They also think that all the people who are heading north in those Honduran caravans should be allowed in, as well. And they almost certainly believe that the number of refugees that the United States legally admits (which is something like 70,000 per year, or maybe it was reduced to 30,000 or so by Trump, not sure) should be considerably increased. So yes, the writers of the show are both pro-refugee (all refugees, wherever they're from and whatever reason they're migrating) and pro-illegal immigrant. The alien situation is an allegory for both of those aspects, pretty much in equal amounts. At least as far as I can tell.
It's clear cut for Martian Manhunter to fall in that persecuted refugee group as he is one of the last (apparently not the last) Green Martians left alive after the White Martians wiped his race out. As far as the other aliens who come from a whole variety of planets, well, sure, all of them *could* be fleeing persecution, but as I said in the previous post, we are never told who the bad guys are who are doing all of the persecution somewhere out there in space.
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GeekyPornCritic
Episode three is amazing! They deserve an award for this masterpiece. Critics have complained the first two episodes only showed one point of view, and episode three takes a surprising turn. We see the Agent of Liberty's point of view. The guy has suffered. He loses his home to an alien attack and Martian Manhunter is blind to the second problem. Manhunter says "you're safe", but fails to realize these people just lost their homes.
I really like how the writers answer questions to decades long questions. The show makes fun of itself without using comedy. We often joke about buildings being empty during fights between superheroes and supervillains. Look at Power Rangers' Mega Zord fights. Buildings are always getting destroyed. Is anyone ever inside those buildings? Then, we see people cheer for heroes for saving the day, and simply ignore the damage property. Does insurance cover alien attacks? HELL NO! We find out in this episode that insurance companies refuse to cover alien attacks.
However, the Agent Liberty is not perfect. His father failed to change his business model. The world is constantly changing. His father is to blame for the failed business. Of course not all aliens have bad intentions.
Only one questions remains at the end of this episode. Will Lena discover Supergirl's identity? Kara can't go to work in cosplay!
I really like how the writers answer questions to decades long questions. The show makes fun of itself without using comedy. We often joke about buildings being empty during fights between superheroes and supervillains. Look at Power Rangers' Mega Zord fights. Buildings are always getting destroyed. Is anyone ever inside those buildings? Then, we see people cheer for heroes for saving the day, and simply ignore the damage property. Does insurance cover alien attacks? HELL NO! We find out in this episode that insurance companies refuse to cover alien attacks.
However, the Agent Liberty is not perfect. His father failed to change his business model. The world is constantly changing. His father is to blame for the failed business. Of course not all aliens have bad intentions.
Only one questions remains at the end of this episode. Will Lena discover Supergirl's identity? Kara can't go to work in cosplay!
You do know that insurance policies don't cover Acts of Zod? That's why in the DCU movies everyone in Metropolis was mad at Superman for the destruction.
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=27338&p=140875&hil ... ss#p140875
There was the TV show for a while looking at ordinary citizens protecting themselves from the damage caused by these fights. The original pitch for the show focused on the insurance companies and the damage claims.
viewtopic.php?f=63&t=27338&p=140875&hil ... ss#p140875
There was the TV show for a while looking at ordinary citizens protecting themselves from the damage caused by these fights. The original pitch for the show focused on the insurance companies and the damage claims.
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Abductorenmadrid
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Doh,
I am sort of gutted because I've built up quite a bit of a standalone comic scene which touches on this issue as a peril and ... gah ... now I look like a frikking copy-cat (My sponsor will back me up, honest!). Ah well I will enjoy the show when it gets released here Tuesday morning.
I am sort of gutted because I've built up quite a bit of a standalone comic scene which touches on this issue as a peril and ... gah ... now I look like a frikking copy-cat (My sponsor will back me up, honest!). Ah well I will enjoy the show when it gets released here Tuesday morning.
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DrDominator9
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The writers did do an excellent job here of selling the home side of the 'nativist' argument. While for dramatic purposes they had to end up consolidating to one family basically all the bad things that could happen with the influx of immigants/refugees, it worked.
It was particularly effective to use our favorite heroes as the ones who are either directly or indirectly the perpertrarors of the complaints ascribed by the nativists; including loss of jobs, property destruction, media inattention and more.
Kudos to the show for spending time on the flip side of the debate and making it real.
I actually was far less thrilled with how they handled the kryptonite peril. It seemed they drained 85% of the drama out of the situation. From her being struck by the effects of the dispersal of the poisonous cloud to the falling to earth element to her inability to fight off the effects, it all felt insubstantial to me. And the answers were too conveniently fast in coming.
I don't think it's just me being a disappointed fetishist here but my POV could be skewed. What did people here think of how they handled it so far?
It was particularly effective to use our favorite heroes as the ones who are either directly or indirectly the perpertrarors of the complaints ascribed by the nativists; including loss of jobs, property destruction, media inattention and more.
Kudos to the show for spending time on the flip side of the debate and making it real.
I actually was far less thrilled with how they handled the kryptonite peril. It seemed they drained 85% of the drama out of the situation. From her being struck by the effects of the dispersal of the poisonous cloud to the falling to earth element to her inability to fight off the effects, it all felt insubstantial to me. And the answers were too conveniently fast in coming.
I don't think it's just me being a disappointed fetishist here but my POV could be skewed. What did people here think of how they handled it so far?
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GeekyPornCritic
The writers dug themselves a hole with the kryptonite peril. This problem has been a plot hole since season one. Astra made a suit that protected her from kryptonite. Why wasn't Supergirl wearing such a suit until now? Astra's suit should have never been made.DrDominator9 wrote: ↑5 years agoThe writers did do an excellent job here of selling the home side of the 'nativist' argument. While for dramatic purposes they had to end up consolidating to one family basically all the bad things that could happen with the influx of immigants/refugees, it worked.
It was particularly effective to use our favorite heroes as the ones who are either directly or indirectly the perpertrarors of the complaints ascribed by the nativists; including loss of jobs, property destruction, media inattention and more.
Kudos to the show for spending time on the flip side of the debate and making it real.
I actually was far less thrilled with how they handled the kryptonite peril. It seemed they drained 85% of the drama out of the situation. From her being struck by the effects of the dispersal of the poisonous cloud to the falling to earth element to her inability to fight off the effects, it all felt insubstantial to me. And the answers were too conveniently fast in coming.
I don't think it's just me being a disappointed fetishist here but my POV could be skewed. What did people here think of how they handled it so far?
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DrDominator9
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As AEM's proofreader, I hereby attest that he did, in fact, come up with a sequence of scenes that clearly present the concept of Supergirl creating damage in her fight scenes as a theme of humiliation to her prior to this show being aired. That said, get over yourself, fella.Abductorenmadrid wrote: ↑5 years agoDoh,
I am sort of gutted because I've built up quite a bit of a standalone comic scene which touches on this issue as a peril and ... gah ... now I look like a frikking copy-cat (My sponsor will back me up, honest!). Ah well I will enjoy the show when it gets released here Tuesday morning.
Ok so first of all there is a comic book from Marvel that deals with the damage from superhero battles. It's about a construction company that repairs the damage. They are the clean-up crew of the Marvel Universe, and the tone of the treatment is like a sitcom. One of its main employees is Hercules, but otherwise than that, they have superpowered characters specific to the company such as Monstro and Trull the Unhuman. Damage Control has had four limited series, and the organization appeared in many Marvel properties since then. There was a TV pilot made in 2015 (did it ever air?) but it doesn't look like it ever went to series. It was created by the legendary black comics creator Dwayne McDuffie, who is mainly known for Static Shock and the Milestone Universe. He died tragically young at 49. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damage_Control_(comics)
Not sure if DC has an equivalent organization, maybe someone can elucidate?
The main thing I am marveling at with regards to Episode 3 is how they were able to re-create the feel of incidents from the previous seasons as Ben Lockwood's life and travails were chronicled - everything from the old Daxamite suits to Alex's hairstyle to the new sign for L-Corp to Eve Teschmacher still being at Catco to Cat Grant's cameo, etc. A lot of meticulous work must have gone into that, and big props to the show for doing that! There was definitely a need to show the 'origin story' of Agent Liberty, whom otherwise would have simply been a cipher hidden behind a mask, and they did the origin story quite well.
As far as showing the flipside of the show's usually very progressive politics, I think mainly what this episode shows is the limited scope that the progressives have in order to really 'understand' the opposite political sentiment - that of conservatives or nativists, or (let's be honest here) Trump
voters. Remember, the progressive writers take pains to inject as much diversity as they possibly can into the cast, but when it comes time to portray the right-wing side of the equation, they go blandly stereotypical: aggrieved white folks from the old-school manufacturing industry, and some more aggrieved white folks who are rejects from the military-industrial-security sector.
Even the subtle points are there: when the camera focuses on the American flag before the wide shot of their burning house, as if to say, "Here are some nationalist Amurrikans." Because of course progressives often don't have a flag on their house - instead they have one of those multi-colored virtue-signaling signs that say "All people are welcome" in English, Spanish, Chinese and Arabic. (And there are tons of these signs on front porches in my hipster neighborhood, so please don't tell me that isn't the case).
And his dad (the traditional-values boomer who probably voted Democratic for most of his life, also known as anyone over 50 in Pittsburgh, PA) crushed by the ruins of his own steel mill? "They're not people" dehumanization of refugees, falsely implying that anti-immigration types don't think immigrants are people? Homegrown nativist terrorism fueled by drinking a bit too much of good ol' Amurrikan beer with your pal, 'Earl'?
Namedropping 4Chan?
And of course, they throw in an academic tenure-track professor who adopts a political stance that is anathema to his progressive university institution - and I wouldn't be surprised if they based him on the likes of Brett Weinstein or Jordan Peterson, etc. And then with his centrist appeal of "I'm just like you", he pulls in a middle-aged white liberal boomer woman (the Dean) into his ideological orbit. I guarantee you that not every Republican or conservative or Trump voter looks like that bitter white guy, delivering a eulogy to his dad in a church full of middle-aged white people (yup, I noticed - whiteness everywhere). And there's a lot more nuance to a conservative (or even centrist) political position than just, say, being anti-immigration. But let's be fair - they did the best they could to write this episode from their liberal ivory towers in Los Angeles, and we'll give them that
The episode was well-planned (if not ideologically nuanced at all) and gave the viewer a sympathetic (if not necessarily empathetic) view of the main
villain. That will help viewers understand his motivation going forward, and that's important for immersion in the story. I also have to give them props for not *pulling* the episode in light of the shooting that happened here in Pittsburgh which is quite eerily similar to the story. The only difference being that Ben Lockwood/Agent Liberty is a fleshed-out character, not a ghost who typed on the Internet and had no social life or presence like this Bowers maniac. Basement nerd extremists don't make for good television.
P.S. The whole concept of the story of the average person in a world populated by superheroes hearkens back to some of Kurt Busiek's tales in the Astro City series, if anyone has read that.
P.P.S. Why would a smart man like Lockwood 'assume' that Jensen would be able to get them back into the DEO? Knowing that Jensen betrayed his organization by allowing Mercy & Otis to escape, wouldn't they already have revoked all his clearances???
Not sure if DC has an equivalent organization, maybe someone can elucidate?
The main thing I am marveling at with regards to Episode 3 is how they were able to re-create the feel of incidents from the previous seasons as Ben Lockwood's life and travails were chronicled - everything from the old Daxamite suits to Alex's hairstyle to the new sign for L-Corp to Eve Teschmacher still being at Catco to Cat Grant's cameo, etc. A lot of meticulous work must have gone into that, and big props to the show for doing that! There was definitely a need to show the 'origin story' of Agent Liberty, whom otherwise would have simply been a cipher hidden behind a mask, and they did the origin story quite well.
As far as showing the flipside of the show's usually very progressive politics, I think mainly what this episode shows is the limited scope that the progressives have in order to really 'understand' the opposite political sentiment - that of conservatives or nativists, or (let's be honest here) Trump
voters. Remember, the progressive writers take pains to inject as much diversity as they possibly can into the cast, but when it comes time to portray the right-wing side of the equation, they go blandly stereotypical: aggrieved white folks from the old-school manufacturing industry, and some more aggrieved white folks who are rejects from the military-industrial-security sector.
Even the subtle points are there: when the camera focuses on the American flag before the wide shot of their burning house, as if to say, "Here are some nationalist Amurrikans." Because of course progressives often don't have a flag on their house - instead they have one of those multi-colored virtue-signaling signs that say "All people are welcome" in English, Spanish, Chinese and Arabic. (And there are tons of these signs on front porches in my hipster neighborhood, so please don't tell me that isn't the case).
And his dad (the traditional-values boomer who probably voted Democratic for most of his life, also known as anyone over 50 in Pittsburgh, PA) crushed by the ruins of his own steel mill? "They're not people" dehumanization of refugees, falsely implying that anti-immigration types don't think immigrants are people? Homegrown nativist terrorism fueled by drinking a bit too much of good ol' Amurrikan beer with your pal, 'Earl'?
Namedropping 4Chan?
And of course, they throw in an academic tenure-track professor who adopts a political stance that is anathema to his progressive university institution - and I wouldn't be surprised if they based him on the likes of Brett Weinstein or Jordan Peterson, etc. And then with his centrist appeal of "I'm just like you", he pulls in a middle-aged white liberal boomer woman (the Dean) into his ideological orbit. I guarantee you that not every Republican or conservative or Trump voter looks like that bitter white guy, delivering a eulogy to his dad in a church full of middle-aged white people (yup, I noticed - whiteness everywhere). And there's a lot more nuance to a conservative (or even centrist) political position than just, say, being anti-immigration. But let's be fair - they did the best they could to write this episode from their liberal ivory towers in Los Angeles, and we'll give them that
The episode was well-planned (if not ideologically nuanced at all) and gave the viewer a sympathetic (if not necessarily empathetic) view of the main
villain. That will help viewers understand his motivation going forward, and that's important for immersion in the story. I also have to give them props for not *pulling* the episode in light of the shooting that happened here in Pittsburgh which is quite eerily similar to the story. The only difference being that Ben Lockwood/Agent Liberty is a fleshed-out character, not a ghost who typed on the Internet and had no social life or presence like this Bowers maniac. Basement nerd extremists don't make for good television.
P.S. The whole concept of the story of the average person in a world populated by superheroes hearkens back to some of Kurt Busiek's tales in the Astro City series, if anyone has read that.
P.P.S. Why would a smart man like Lockwood 'assume' that Jensen would be able to get them back into the DEO? Knowing that Jensen betrayed his organization by allowing Mercy & Otis to escape, wouldn't they already have revoked all his clearances???
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Abductorenmadrid
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Wow - ok - just got through Episode 3 - Man Of Steel.
To be brief this was a really bold effort in story telling. So often we get told third hand how or why some bad guy is bad and here they had the guts to commit the best part of an episode to showing us. Sure, the events were condensed to affect one man but the fringe of people around him that were also affected helped convey the tide of ... well whatever it is. In all it led to a crescendo of extremism with our antagonist eventually turning on the very people he had tried to protect.
In terms of SG, sure, the peril was a little too quickly overcome. I would have preferred the "clean room" situation, with Kara left pacing a clear walled cell, a prisoner. Add in her uniform being handed over in a vac-seal bag through an airlock for decontamination leaving her in a hospital gown to make the situation more yummy!
Kudos then, for a great story telling effort AND as mentioned elsewhere, the effort made at continuity.
AEM
To be brief this was a really bold effort in story telling. So often we get told third hand how or why some bad guy is bad and here they had the guts to commit the best part of an episode to showing us. Sure, the events were condensed to affect one man but the fringe of people around him that were also affected helped convey the tide of ... well whatever it is. In all it led to a crescendo of extremism with our antagonist eventually turning on the very people he had tried to protect.
In terms of SG, sure, the peril was a little too quickly overcome. I would have preferred the "clean room" situation, with Kara left pacing a clear walled cell, a prisoner. Add in her uniform being handed over in a vac-seal bag through an airlock for decontamination leaving her in a hospital gown to make the situation more yummy!
Kudos then, for a great story telling effort AND as mentioned elsewhere, the effort made at continuity.
AEM
My avatar courtesy of https://www.deviantart.com/sleepy-comics
My current story is Supergirl V Bane
This is all the stuff I've done here but don't tell anyone about this!
My current story is Supergirl V Bane
This is all the stuff I've done here but don't tell anyone about this!
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DrDominator9
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I watched an intetesting YouTube vid from DC TV that explained a bit about how Episode 3 came about. With Melissa having taken time off during this past summer to star in Beautiful on Broadway, they had to work a script around her with only minimal participation from her. In fact, they shot most of this episode first, out of sequence.
So, pressed to be creative, they came up with the Agent of Liberty backstory and told their special effects department to get to work finding appropriate shots from past shows to weave together into crsis moments for the antagonist and others. So, oddly enough when the writers were forced to write an episode without much of Supergirl in the mix, they came up with their best effort of the season so far.
It also explains more about why the drama of the kryptonite peril was lacking. She wasn't around enough for them to shoot more than the falling sequence and the lying on the hospital bed sequence.
So, pressed to be creative, they came up with the Agent of Liberty backstory and told their special effects department to get to work finding appropriate shots from past shows to weave together into crsis moments for the antagonist and others. So, oddly enough when the writers were forced to write an episode without much of Supergirl in the mix, they came up with their best effort of the season so far.
It also explains more about why the drama of the kryptonite peril was lacking. She wasn't around enough for them to shoot more than the falling sequence and the lying on the hospital bed sequence.
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GeekyPornCritic
I would have liked Supergirl's new suit to be in development with Kara in a clean room at the end of the episode. It would give the DEO a reason to hire the Guardian as a backup and legally allow him to fight crime. Then, Supergirl would return to action after her new suit is completed by Lena.
James isn't doing anything right now. Give him something! I want James to break up with Lena for lying to him. Then, him and Supergirl can get back together as they had so much chemistry in season one, and Lena will turn heel in revenge.
James isn't doing anything right now. Give him something! I want James to break up with Lena for lying to him. Then, him and Supergirl can get back together as they had so much chemistry in season one, and Lena will turn heel in revenge.
Now that Winn is in the future, Lena Luthor is always the smartest person in the room. Brainiac may be faster, but less creative.
Lena secretly saved Jimmy from prosecution working behind his back. She upgraded he mother's battle suit and was out fighting Mercy. Has pretty much beat her every opponent with her technology and computer skills.
Now after watching how Lena was "protecting" Kara from Mercy, I'm waiting for the reveal where Lena shows she knows Supergirl's identity and uses it to control her. Lena's revenge for Kara's lying is to make her do what she wants.
Lena secretly saved Jimmy from prosecution working behind his back. She upgraded he mother's battle suit and was out fighting Mercy. Has pretty much beat her every opponent with her technology and computer skills.
Now after watching how Lena was "protecting" Kara from Mercy, I'm waiting for the reveal where Lena shows she knows Supergirl's identity and uses it to control her. Lena's revenge for Kara's lying is to make her do what she wants.
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Abductorenmadrid
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That would be hot, but I suspect a one way trip for Lena. So far when she's wobbled on the moral tightrope she has always managed to come back but blackmailing Kara would be the end.
What may be interesting as a peril is obviously SG is now basically trapped inside a mobile prison, you've got to hope nothing bad happens to it, or its life support systems. And poor "Kara Danvers" - she is locked away tight in a suit, and no amount of pretty dresses, skirts, blouses or figure hugging pants can disguise the fact she has a K allergy. Hmmm, how about a little breathplay peril for SG in that gas mask...
My avatar courtesy of https://www.deviantart.com/sleepy-comics
My current story is Supergirl V Bane
This is all the stuff I've done here but don't tell anyone about this!
My current story is Supergirl V Bane
This is all the stuff I've done here but don't tell anyone about this!
-
GeekyPornCritic
May someone please explain why James aka The Guardian has legal trouble for being The Guardian? I just got into this show last month, and completed season one a few weeks ago. I know about the copycat, but he was arrested. This plot does not make sense. Is it illegal for him to be a superhero? Superman is not a government employee, and the authorities are okay with his activities. Then, Supergirl refused to support him in season two after HE SUPPORTED HER in season one.
Now to episode four. I felt a bit of a letdown because this episode was not exciting as the first three episodes. The Agent of Liberty's plan to use mind control on aliens to attack children is a brilliant political strategy. I really like the "fake news" ending. I wonder if The Agent of Liberty is behind the fake news of The Guardian being a supporter of Liberty.
Martian Manhunter's issues put me to sleep. Manchester Black really seems like a very bad character. Maybe its the actor. I'm just not feeling this guy. He seems out of place.
Then, the kryptonite peril ended too soon. The resolution feels too rushed. It could have lasted at least one more episode.
Now to episode four. I felt a bit of a letdown because this episode was not exciting as the first three episodes. The Agent of Liberty's plan to use mind control on aliens to attack children is a brilliant political strategy. I really like the "fake news" ending. I wonder if The Agent of Liberty is behind the fake news of The Guardian being a supporter of Liberty.
Martian Manhunter's issues put me to sleep. Manchester Black really seems like a very bad character. Maybe its the actor. I'm just not feeling this guy. He seems out of place.
Then, the kryptonite peril ended too soon. The resolution feels too rushed. It could have lasted at least one more episode.
Episode 4 - "Ahimsa"
Did anyone notice the two references in this episode to other CW series?
- when Lana talks about Brainy putting his feelings in little boxes, it's pretty much the same thing as what Perenna advises Jennifer to do on Black Lightning.
- Otis intentionally steps on a kid's plush toy at the amusement park, which is a stuffed Beebo (the talking stuffed toy from Legends).
Almost everything about this episode seems too easy and too lazy. Here are some examples:
1) The Kryptonite in the air problem was solved too easily. This is not the first time that "nanites" have been a cure-all for some kind of otherwise insurmountable ill, and it's certainly not going to be the last.
2) Supergirl being able to get out of that suit in time to triumph was just too much of a happy coincidence. If the nanites had been a bit slower,
she would have been poisoned or run out of energy during that battle. Too convenient.
3) Guardian getting out of trouble for being a law-breaking vigilante was just too easy. For many episodes, his life and job were in jeopardy if he
took up the mantle of Guardian, and then all of a sudden, that whole thing was just snatched away by the convenience of L-Corp's vast influence.
Why bother making it up in the first place if you're just going to make it go away that easily?
4) The thing about non-violence was just lazy. Maybe it was some kind of attempt from the social-justice types who write for this show to teach viewers about the term "ahimsa" (as opposed to just using the term "nonviolence"). But it really doesn't matter because in essence, nobody wound up practicing what they preached. Martian Manhunter wound up being violent and angry, Supergirl and Alex and the alien with the arrows coming out of
his hands all were violent. So why bother even bringing it up, when it'll probably be totally forgotten by next episode?
5) I am really not digging Alex Danvers' convenient butch haircut. It is much too obvious of a bone thrown to the progressive crowd, let alone the
constant validation she's getting from J'onn J'onzz for doing her job. That's not really much of a big deal though, I just thought it was glaring. What was the matter with how Alex looked before?
6) Fiona and Manchester, who the fuck cares. Nobody cared when she died, because her character was hardly developed, and nobody looked at Manchester's crocodile tears as being that serious, because we didn't even have any time to identify with his character either. I think maybe the writers thought we would quickly like him just because he's a black British guy in a trenchcoat or something? But that's not a given. Really, the laziest thing about the Manchester character is that he's based on a pretty strong villain that Superman has fought multiple times. Manchester's raison d'etre in the comics is his belief that evildoers need to be *killed*, not 'brought to justice' alive. Maybe we'll get to that philosophy eventually, though (since he's buying some guns) and at least point #6 will be partially redeemend.
7) And finally the death of Otis and Mercy. After supposedly being such a threat and being involved in such elaborate machinations, they just randomly die from the hand-arrows from that alien guy? (It was even hard to tell who killed them at first..I had to go back twice and determine that the arrow-shooting alien called Mercy and Otis 'free' because they were finally dead.) That is just sloppy writing.
Definitely not one of the best episodes of Supergirl, from any season.
Did anyone notice the two references in this episode to other CW series?
- when Lana talks about Brainy putting his feelings in little boxes, it's pretty much the same thing as what Perenna advises Jennifer to do on Black Lightning.
- Otis intentionally steps on a kid's plush toy at the amusement park, which is a stuffed Beebo (the talking stuffed toy from Legends).
Almost everything about this episode seems too easy and too lazy. Here are some examples:
1) The Kryptonite in the air problem was solved too easily. This is not the first time that "nanites" have been a cure-all for some kind of otherwise insurmountable ill, and it's certainly not going to be the last.
2) Supergirl being able to get out of that suit in time to triumph was just too much of a happy coincidence. If the nanites had been a bit slower,
she would have been poisoned or run out of energy during that battle. Too convenient.
3) Guardian getting out of trouble for being a law-breaking vigilante was just too easy. For many episodes, his life and job were in jeopardy if he
took up the mantle of Guardian, and then all of a sudden, that whole thing was just snatched away by the convenience of L-Corp's vast influence.
Why bother making it up in the first place if you're just going to make it go away that easily?
4) The thing about non-violence was just lazy. Maybe it was some kind of attempt from the social-justice types who write for this show to teach viewers about the term "ahimsa" (as opposed to just using the term "nonviolence"). But it really doesn't matter because in essence, nobody wound up practicing what they preached. Martian Manhunter wound up being violent and angry, Supergirl and Alex and the alien with the arrows coming out of
his hands all were violent. So why bother even bringing it up, when it'll probably be totally forgotten by next episode?
5) I am really not digging Alex Danvers' convenient butch haircut. It is much too obvious of a bone thrown to the progressive crowd, let alone the
constant validation she's getting from J'onn J'onzz for doing her job. That's not really much of a big deal though, I just thought it was glaring. What was the matter with how Alex looked before?
6) Fiona and Manchester, who the fuck cares. Nobody cared when she died, because her character was hardly developed, and nobody looked at Manchester's crocodile tears as being that serious, because we didn't even have any time to identify with his character either. I think maybe the writers thought we would quickly like him just because he's a black British guy in a trenchcoat or something? But that's not a given. Really, the laziest thing about the Manchester character is that he's based on a pretty strong villain that Superman has fought multiple times. Manchester's raison d'etre in the comics is his belief that evildoers need to be *killed*, not 'brought to justice' alive. Maybe we'll get to that philosophy eventually, though (since he's buying some guns) and at least point #6 will be partially redeemend.
7) And finally the death of Otis and Mercy. After supposedly being such a threat and being involved in such elaborate machinations, they just randomly die from the hand-arrows from that alien guy? (It was even hard to tell who killed them at first..I had to go back twice and determine that the arrow-shooting alien called Mercy and Otis 'free' because they were finally dead.) That is just sloppy writing.
Definitely not one of the best episodes of Supergirl, from any season.
Yeah, pretty much every show on the "Arrow-verse" suffers from this. There's always a convenient tech solution to virtually any problem. Felicity, Cisco and Winn/Brainy pretty much perform the same role.1) The Kryptonite in the air problem was solved too easily. This is not the first time that "nanites" have been a cure-all for some kind of otherwise insurmountable ill, and it's certainly not going to be the last.
I really wish this show could go on forever only because I love seeing Melissa in costume, but the writing is just not giving me much hope. :(
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Bert
Yeah, I'm worried that Berlanti and Co. are just phoning in this season to get the series up to 88 episodes for syndication purposes. Although the writing has always been weak, this crap is almost unwatchable. Hopefully now that Melissa is back there will at least be some Supergirl adventure to watch. I'll probably just be fast forwarding to scenes where she's in costume from now on.
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GeekyPornCritic
This episode should have been about The Guardian joining the fight to replace an injured Supergirl, and getting arrested after saving the day. With Guardian arrested and Supergirl on the sidelines, The Agent of Liberty with the Graves could deal serious damage until a solution is found for our heroes. They still can introduce the next big villain (I'll let everyone see episode five's trailer) without our heroes knowing how he is able to gain his powers, but us viewers will know his secret ability.shevek wrote: ↑5 years agoEpisode 4 - "Ahimsa"
Did anyone notice the two references in this episode to other CW series?
- when Lana talks about Brainy putting his feelings in little boxes, it's pretty much the same thing as what Perenna advises Jennifer to do on Black Lightning.
- Otis intentionally steps on a kid's plush toy at the amusement park, which is a stuffed Beebo (the talking stuffed toy from Legends).
Almost everything about this episode seems too easy and too lazy. Here are some examples:
1) The Kryptonite in the air problem was solved too easily. This is not the first time that "nanites" have been a cure-all for some kind of otherwise insurmountable ill, and it's certainly not going to be the last.
2) Supergirl being able to get out of that suit in time to triumph was just too much of a happy coincidence. If the nanites had been a bit slower,
she would have been poisoned or run out of energy during that battle. Too convenient.
3) Guardian getting out of trouble for being a law-breaking vigilante was just too easy. For many episodes, his life and job were in jeopardy if he
took up the mantle of Guardian, and then all of a sudden, that whole thing was just snatched away by the convenience of L-Corp's vast influence.
Why bother making it up in the first place if you're just going to make it go away that easily?
4) The thing about non-violence was just lazy. Maybe it was some kind of attempt from the social-justice types who write for this show to teach viewers about the term "ahimsa" (as opposed to just using the term "nonviolence"). But it really doesn't matter because in essence, nobody wound up practicing what they preached. Martian Manhunter wound up being violent and angry, Supergirl and Alex and the alien with the arrows coming out of
his hands all were violent. So why bother even bringing it up, when it'll probably be totally forgotten by next episode?
5) I am really not digging Alex Danvers' convenient butch haircut. It is much too obvious of a bone thrown to the progressive crowd, let alone the
constant validation she's getting from J'onn J'onzz for doing her job. That's not really much of a big deal though, I just thought it was glaring. What was the matter with how Alex looked before?
6) Fiona and Manchester, who the fuck cares. Nobody cared when she died, because her character was hardly developed, and nobody looked at Manchester's crocodile tears as being that serious, because we didn't even have any time to identify with his character either. I think maybe the writers thought we would quickly like him just because he's a black British guy in a trenchcoat or something? But that's not a given. Really, the laziest thing about the Manchester character is that he's based on a pretty strong villain that Superman has fought multiple times. Manchester's raison d'etre in the comics is his belief that evildoers need to be *killed*, not 'brought to justice' alive. Maybe we'll get to that philosophy eventually, though (since he's buying some guns) and at least point #6 will be partially redeemend.
7) And finally the death of Otis and Mercy. After supposedly being such a threat and being involved in such elaborate machinations, they just randomly die from the hand-arrows from that alien guy? (It was even hard to tell who killed them at first..I had to go back twice and determine that the arrow-shooting alien called Mercy and Otis 'free' because they were finally dead.) That is just sloppy writing.
Definitely not one of the best episodes of Supergirl, from any season.
Finally we're getting one of the core Superman villains into the Supergirl series.
" Jensen", the grunt from the DEO who allied himself with Agent Liberty and the Graves siblings, is, in fact, Raymond Jensen, the first incarnation of Parasite in DC Comics. Episode 5 will hopefully have some nice power-draining peril for Melissa. Looking forward to it if w
e can power thru the politics!
" Jensen", the grunt from the DEO who allied himself with Agent Liberty and the Graves siblings, is, in fact, Raymond Jensen, the first incarnation of Parasite in DC Comics. Episode 5 will hopefully have some nice power-draining peril for Melissa. Looking forward to it if w
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DrDominator9
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Parasite has always been one of my favorite villains and I'm hoping we get to see a power draining sequence longer than 6 measly seconds. Perhaps having him hold into her for a while -- having her get weaker and weaker as he does. Just showing that with cuts to her facial expression would be great. Fingers crossed for tomorrow night.