She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by tallyho »

Mr. X wrote: 5 months ago What does Hulk do other than "research"?
Hulk SMASH!!! :bh:
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by cannonfodder »

Mr. X wrote: 5 months ago
Visitor wrote: 5 months ago We haven't gotten to the suspension of disbelief that Jen can afford two different sizes of designer clothes while still paying off her college student loans.

Spiderman is pretty6 much the only one in the MCEU that worries about money since most of the rest sponge off Stark.
True, they all sponge off Stark. Like all the DC heroes sponge off Bruce Wayne. What does Hulk do other than "research"?
China pays him to knock down all those empty buildings level the area so they can rebuild empty buildings.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by sugarcoater »

Damselbinder wrote: 5 months ago
sugarcoater wrote: 5 months ago
Damselbinder wrote: 5 months ago
tallyho wrote: 5 months ago It's 40 years old and was of its time
That is no excuse.
That comment smacks of the arrogance and vanity of presentism. Though it is nice to build our ego by looking on the past and casting judgement while being prideful of our own wonderful morality, may we not suffer the same from the pretentious people of the future who would in turn judge us. It's the same mindset that wants to tear down history because great but flawed men did not share our current morality.

Criticizing the environment makes sense, criticizing the product of the environment borders on vanity.
Well your comment smacks of the arrogance and vanity of jumping to fucking conclusions. Did you not see me say "sexism shmexism"? Indeed - that sort of value judgement on a show that started in the fifties is probably pointless. I just mean it's just... a bad show and not funny. Even the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air took potshots at Benny Hill! I'd appreciate your reading what I actually said before leaping on top of your soap box.

Criticizing the post makes sense, criticizing what you decided to imagine the person had said so that you could cluck your tongue and wag your finger borders on vanity.
I don't yet see a reason to change my opinion of what your comment represents, and your angry response reinforces my thinking. Yes, I read the "Sexism schmexist. It's crass and stupid" post. Then I read the "That is no excuse" line.
You seem to be consistently caustic, angry and bitter whenever someone disagrees with you here. It makes it frustrating that you use a quality person like Denzel as your avatar; he deserves a more even-tempered person representing him. Maybe try being polite when engaging in an argument; you might find someone may come around to seeing your perspective.
In responding, I referred to your comment and extended the thought process to the general philosophy of people today using presentism to criticize the past while elevating themselves to a greater moral ground. I find this line of thinking intensely irritating and pretentious. As a result, I may be reading too much into people's comments. But rest assured, I did read what you posted when I wrote what I did. As you wrote the post, you know what you meant by it and as such I must defer to your meaning. Perhaps try not coming across as an arrogant prick in your responses when you disagree; I'll try to do likewise.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by sugarcoater »

Dogfish wrote: 5 months ago
sugarcoater wrote: 5 months ago
Damselbinder wrote: 5 months ago
tallyho wrote: 5 months ago It's 40 years old and was of its time
That is no excuse.
That comment smacks of the arrogance and vanity of presentism. Though it is nice to build our ego by looking on the past and casting judgement while being prideful of our own wonderful morality, may we not suffer the same from the pretentious people of the future who would in turn judge us. It's the same mindset that wants to tear down history because great but flawed men did not share our current morality.

Criticizing the environment makes sense, criticizing the product of the environment borders on vanity.
There's a lot of truth to this. You can look back to more recent shows like Little Britain, and they're still racist and misogynistic as hell.

Our morality has not improved as much as we'd like to think.

Although it's worth bearing in mind that 'tearing down history' usually just means learning it accurately and removing monuments to men who, even at the standards of the time, were pieces of shit. They just had money and old timey PR.
I disagree with that last part of your last post Dogfish, as I'm watching people advocate for the removal of monuments and tributes of historical figures such as Washington, Lincoln and even Douglass. I don't consider such people as "pieces of shit". I think our morality has improved in some aspects and regressed in others. I don't think we are being more accurate in assessing history, but merely using another lens from the comfortable distance of 2022.
Which is, of course, not to say that all historical figures should forever be commemorated and venerated. My concern is the slippery slope of destroying a country's history allows the present party in charge to redefine the country's future. I don't trust today's leaders to come close to creating a better culture and society.
And now back to She-Hulk...
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Dogfish »

Nobody learns history from statues. It'd be like learning literature from looking at books on a shelf.

But yeah, She-Hulk. Wonder when the show is going to start, y'know, doing stuff.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Mr. X »

Dogfish wrote: 5 months ago But yeah, She-Hulk. Wonder when the show is going to start, y'know, doing stuff.
It won't. Its a sitcom. Like all sitcoms the stories are self contained and rise and fall within that episode and in 30 minutes not much can happen. And the budget limits any fights. And since the creators don't appear to like comic content or don't read it, its She-Hulk in name only. This is not Law and Order or Ally McBeal.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

Mr. X wrote: 5 months ago
Dogfish wrote: 5 months ago But yeah, She-Hulk. Wonder when the show is going to start, y'know, doing stuff.
It won't. Its a sitcom. Like all sitcoms the stories are self contained and rise and fall within that episode and in 30 minutes not much can happen. And the budget limits any fights. And since the creators don't appear to like comic content or don't read it, its She-Hulk in name only. This is not Law and Order or Ally McBeal.
And just when you thought the level of You-Go-Girl couldn't get higher, here comes Megan Thee Stallion in a future episode.
At least they'll finally have an actress who is very experienced at looking extremely sexy in spandex and other tight costumes. And her lines in the show are probably going to be an improvement on her usual vapid lyrics. If you're not familiar with this rap artist, here is her latest video. Now all they need to do is give Doja Cat a part as well, and the YassQueening will be complete.

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by NotUv2 »

Gotta say, I'm enjoying the show. A bit short on action, but it's a good bit of light comedy fun. It's also a pretty masterful exercise in simultaneously trolling and exploiting the Whiny Incel Demographic (the way Episode 3 directly integrates them into the story is very funny).
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

"Something that I saw as a bug, which was the horrible and getting-much-worse MCU humor, is now not just a feature, but it's the entire show."

Warning: as with many Zack videos, there's a tangential rant (OK, let's call it a parable) that eventually comes to demonstrate a point:

"You can't sustain hype with someone who just isn't that interested in the subject matter."

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Damselbinder »

That guy's point about the "we can't write a trial" thing, if it's a genuine quotation, is actually a genuine problem - like actually a pretty catastrophic problem with the writers. I really don't agree with the "she doesn't like men sexualising her but she also twerks in her office" as an actual contradiction, though. I mean, she doesn't seem like a sexless prude whose uncomfortable with that sort of thing at all - she seems to have a pretty passionate libido, doesn't she? Isn't it just that she wants to express her sexuality on her own terms, rather than being seen as just a tool of gratification? Now just to be clear, I'm not watching the show - I don't have any idea how well the show writes any of that stuff or how much they explore it or whatever. I'm just saying this guy in the 'video' is making a false dichotomy.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by NotUv2 »

Damselbinder wrote: 5 months ago That guy's point about the "we can't write a trial" thing, if it's a genuine quotation, is actually a genuine problem - like actually a pretty catastrophic problem with the writers.
They're being selective with the legal content, and it's definitely Cartoon Courtroom stuff. It's not really a problem, though. The show is a comedy, it's not Law & Order.
I really don't agree with the "she doesn't like men sexualising her but she also twerks in her office" as an actual contradiction, though. I mean, she doesn't seem like a sexless prude whose uncomfortable with that sort of thing at all - she seems to have a pretty passionate libido, doesn't she? Isn't it just that she wants to express her sexuality on her own terms, rather than being seen as just a tool of gratification?
Basically, yeah. But the showrunners definitely knew there would be certain kinds of people running for their fainting couches at the mere sight of Megan Thee Stallion and twerking, and deliberately trolled them into offering up nonsense online takes. It fuels conversation and visibility, after all.

(The production team is very definitely aware of the vitriolic and aggressively stupid character of fandom misogyny and has really directly incorporated it, and commentary on it, into the show. That's especially clear in Episode 3: there's a storyline skewering a delusionally entitled douchebro who is suing a shapeshifter for convincing him he was dating Megan Thee Stallion, there's a hilariously overconfident version of the Wrecking Crew who are heavily reminiscent of just about every rando who seriously thinks he could wrestle a bear and win, and there are even angry "does everything have to be female?!" Tweets and YouTubers ranting about forced diversity in a media montage halfway in.)
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Damselbinder »

NotUv2 wrote: 5 months ago
Damselbinder wrote: 5 months ago That guy's point about the "we can't write a trial" thing, if it's a genuine quotation, is actually a genuine problem - like actually a pretty catastrophic problem with the writers.
They're being selective with the legal content, and it's definitely Cartoon Courtroom stuff. It's not really a problem, though. The show is a comedy, it's not Law & Order.
I really don't agree with the "she doesn't like men sexualising her but she also twerks in her office" as an actual contradiction, though. I mean, she doesn't seem like a sexless prude whose uncomfortable with that sort of thing at all - she seems to have a pretty passionate libido, doesn't she? Isn't it just that she wants to express her sexuality on her own terms, rather than being seen as just a tool of gratification?
Basically, yeah. But the showrunners definitely knew there would be certain kinds of people running for their fainting couches at the mere sight of Megan Thee Stallion and twerking, and deliberately trolled them into offering up nonsense online takes. It fuels conversation and visibility, after all.

(The production team is very definitely aware of the vitriolic and aggressively stupid character of fandom misogyny and has really directly incorporated it, and commentary on it, into the show. That's especially clear in Episode 3: there's a storyline skewering a delusionally entitled douchebro who is suing a shapeshifter for convincing him he was dating Megan Thee Stallion, there's a hilariously overconfident version of the Wrecking Crew who are heavily reminiscent of just about every rando who seriously thinks he could wrestle a bear and win, and there are even angry "does everything have to be female?!" Tweets and YouTubers ranting about forced diversity in a media montage halfway in.)
That is amusing - but entitled douchebro or otherwise, if they'd had sex my understanding is that that's legally rape; if you get someone to have sex with you specifically by assuming a false identity?

Or is that the point? Does Jen frustratedly have to defend him even though he's an asshole? The moral being "even shitheads are sometimes the victims of crime"?
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by NotUv2 »

Damselbinder wrote: 5 months agoThat is amusing - but entitled douchebro or otherwise, if they'd had sex my understanding is that that's legally rape; if you get someone to have sex with you specifically by assuming a false identity?
Sex wasn't part of it, or wasn't specified as such: the relationship mainly seems to have taken place online and consisted mostly of his buying her stuff. So the lawsuit was about fraud and emotional damages resulting from being defrauded. (Part of the gag is that most of this was stuff that any halfway-intelligent person would have realized Megan Thee Stallion would not be in the market for, like payments on a Volkswagen Passat.)
Does Jen frustratedly have to defend him even though he's an asshole? The moral being "even shitheads are sometimes the victims of crime"?
She-Hulk does wind up helping him win -- mostly as a favor to the fellow-lawyer from her firm who's stuck with him -- but not by a means he particularly enjoys.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

So, NotUv2, what you're admitting with your posts above is they've stuffed this show chock full of a certain...agenda. You're fine with that being part of your entertainment, but most people are either *not* fine with it, or could not care less.

What's ironic about the show, at least so far, is that despite the high intersectional content, She-Hulk ultimately concedes to working through the system: 1) She asks (and receives) help from her male cousin in figuring out her powers; 2) She winds up being employed by the very patriarchal male she was suing for being an uncaring exploitative capitalist; 3) She winds up defending the very patriarchal chauvinist that she and her assistant want to *kill* earlier.

Seems kind of like the real world, where people have to compromise to get along, meet in the middle, and arrive at a centrist position...no?
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Damselbinder »

shevek wrote: 5 months ago So, NotUv2, what you're admitting with your posts above is they've stuffed this show chock full of a certain...agenda. You're fine with that being part of your entertainment, but most people either are *not* fine with it, or could care less.

What's ironic about the show, at least so far, is that despite the high intersectional content, She-Hulk ultimately concedes to working through the system: 1) She asks (and receives) help from her male cousin in figuring out her powers; 2) She winds up being employed by the very patriarchal male she was suing for being an uncaring exploitative capitalist; 3) She winds up defending the very patriarchal chauvinist that she and her assistant want to *kill* earlier.

Seems kind of like the real world, where people have to compromise to get alone, meet in the middle, and arrive at a centrist position...no?
You don't get to speak for 'most people', Shevek.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Shakeshift »

You don't get to speak for 'most people', Shevek.

Amen to that. His unwavering mediocrity in fetish is proof that he speaks for NOBODY in this industry, or for fandom in general.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Damselbinder »

Shakeshift wrote: 5 months ago You don't get to speak for 'most people', Shevek.

Amen to that. His unwavering mediocrity in fetish is proof that he speaks for NOBODY in this industry, or for fandom in general.
Ah no, come on now, I was already skirting the line tbh, but we can't just directly attack each other. Like I know I can be pretty caustic, but - c'mon now.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Mr. X »

"It's also a pretty masterful exercise in simultaneously trolling and exploiting the Whiny Incel Demographic "
:blink:
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Dogfish »

It's interesting that She-Hulk has always been social commentary, and the incel outrage against women in media is an issue that needs to be commented on, and She-Hulk is exactly the sort of vehicle that will provoke further incel outrage.

I still think it needs to be funnier though.

Feels like we're in a phase where agreeing with a show's worldview is considered enough to make it watchable, am not quite there yet.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by cartman666x »

well I have see the actress,Tatiana Maslany, in green seems Shrek's wife
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by tallyho »

Does she transform if Banner leaves the seat up?
That seems to send most women mental.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Damselbinder »

tallyho wrote: 5 months ago Does she transform if Banner leaves the seat up?
That seems to send most women mental.
That was a joke in much the same way that a photograph of a pot noodle is food.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by tallyho »

It was a quip , not a joke. ;)
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by ivandobsky »

tallyho wrote: 5 months ago Does she transform if Banner leaves the seat up?
It seems like less effort to just put the seat down, but it would be so 2022!
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

You'd think that faced with a "microaggression" of such nature, she still might transform, but just a tiny bit, like maybe just her pinky finger or the tip of her nose.

Unfortunately, there is no proportionate response in that world. It's either joyous twerking, or World War Hulk.

Meanwhile, this score is about to head below 50%..and still it's not the worst-rated new geek-culture thing on TV (that would be Rings of Power,
currently being destroyed at 39%).

I'm not running to my dictionary, but I would believe that the definition of "most people" includes more people hating a thing, than liking a thing.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by NotUv2 »

Dogfish wrote: 5 months agoIt's interesting that She-Hulk has always been social commentary, and the incel outrage against women in media is an issue that needs to be commented on, and She-Hulk is exactly the sort of vehicle that will provoke further incel outrage.
Yeah, I mean: how were they not going to factor it in, really.
I still think it needs to be funnier though.

Feels like we're in a phase where agreeing with a show's worldview is considered enough to make it watchable, am not quite there yet.
Mileage varies, I guess. A show doesn't have to be the Apex of Comedy to be watchable and diverting. Mostly, the MCU has perfected the art of making light, palate-cleansing fare that provides an undemanding way of killing an hour or two. I wouldn't say She-Hulk (or most MCU shows) is ultimately anything more than that. To whatever extent it's "political" it's mainly in that it can't avoid reflecting the absurdity of its era. I approve of the creators getting some mileage out of that, they might as well, but it would hardly in and of itself be a reason to watch the show.

As what it is, I'm enjoying it. I'm not classing it with Better Call Saul or anything.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Femina »

shevek wrote: 5 months ago I'm not running to my dictionary, but I would believe that the definition of "most people" includes more people hating a thing, than liking a thing.

she hulk rotten tomatoes score 9.3.22.jpg
Rotton Tomatoes has proven to be a poor representation of the overall populace's interests and opinions. All it can REALLY tell us is how folks dedicated to the success or failure of a thing whom frequent the website feel... and pretty much nothing else. Since it collects as many Critic scores from across various mediums as it can find, it can be trusted enough to give us what the general professional critical response has been but in terms of its 'audience response' score... it's proven to be vulnerable to dedicated review bombing and praising in equal measure and simply doesn't account for the vast majority of human beings who don't spend their days watching youtube videos and scouring the internet for news about these things. MOST of the people watching She Hulk or The Rings of Power TODAY... never looked up a review for it, and never watched a single youtube video praising or vilifying it, and will never put their oppinions up on the internet for statistical analysis. They just saw it pop up on the 'you should watch this' section of their Disney+ and Amazon Prime feeds. How those people feel we have no metric by which to investigate until the shows trending decline of viewership numbers are released... which unfortunately is something we get less and less.

It does certainly indicate that the majority of Rotton Tomatoes visitors don't like it, but it doesn't tell us anything else of real statistical value.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by ivandobsky »

Basically agree, but the critics score is pretty worthless too, or at least, you should apply some kind of moderation to it factoring in what the thing cost to make. There are many professional critics who know what side their bread is buttered!
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Damselbinder »

ivandobsky wrote: 5 months ago Basically agree, but the critics score is pretty worthless too, or at least, you should apply some kind of moderation to it factoring in what the thing cost to make. There are many professional critics who know what side their bread is buttered!
That is true - but at least you can go and read the review, and get an impression of whether they're being a total shill or not. It's somewhat more accountable, I guess.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Femina »

ivandobsky wrote: 5 months ago Basically agree, but the critics score is pretty worthless too, or at least, you should apply some kind of moderation to it factoring in what the thing cost to make. There are many professional critics who know what side their bread is buttered!
I don't read into conspiracy theory.

Unless a publication is outed as a sell out via some expose then I'm going to approach their work as though they aren't being corrupt, then read the review and decide how genuine it reads my own danged self. Just approaching it as 'the critics are entirely fake!!!!' isn't a metric I'm willing to entertain for analytics................... and regardless, it doesn't change much for this discussion here. I only meant to say that in terms of EXPRESSED oppinion of a property, the Critic score is FAR MORE indicative of the average critical perspective as put forward by the Critical community than the audience score is because we have more access to the totality of published reviews and critical intercourse than we do of the audience. We can centralize a depository for published reviews... we CAN'T centralize a depository for the opinions of ANY individual who isn't heavily invested in making their opinions known... which is most of us.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by ivandobsky »

Femina wrote: 5 months agocritical intercourse
discourse? :)

It's no secret that much of many a critics' revenue comes from ads. Many of those ads are paid for by the film studio/publisher/distributor. Plus things like early screenings might be reserved for "friends". I can not prove, and do not think, that this applies to every critic.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Femina »

ivandobsky wrote: 5 months ago
Femina wrote: 5 months agocritical intercourse
discourse? :)

It's no secret that much of many a critics' revenue comes from ads. Many of those ads are paid for by the film studio/publisher/distributor. Plus things like early screenings might be reserved for "friends". I can not prove, and do not think, that this applies to every critic.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuugh!!!

Not even gonna go correct it. It is what it is.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by NotUv2 »

The new episodes are very funny. She-Hulk deals with a charlatan misusing magic from Kamar-Taj (a nice guest appearance by Wong, who picks up an odd-couple bestie in the process) and fights off an attempt to steal her name for use in a dodgy beauty products brand by Titania. It's all still light-hearted fun, but the comedy is landing better for me. I'm looking forward to the latter half of the season.

They also teased a Daredevil cameo, so, that should be interesting.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by theScribbler »

I really wanted to like this show, but out of the 2021 2022 Disney+ Marvel series this is my least favorite.

All the characters are flat, no depth. Even characters who had depth in prior shows (Hulk, Wong) are one dimensional versions of themselves in this show. Hulk/Banner may have fared better but really that's carry over from all Ruffalo's prior appearances.

Meh writing and not funny comedy (it's not the cast, cast is fine). The WandaVision writers coulda done way better with same cast and similar plot points even.

That said, I am curious to see how Netflix's Daredevil will come off flattened by this crap.


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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Mr. X »

The Daredevil, Punisher, Power Man, Jones series were OK written and they didn't last.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by theScribbler »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago The Daredevil, Punisher, Power Man, Jones series were OK written and they didn't last.
Those shows moved to Disney+. After Netflix license expired.

A new Daredevil series with Charlie Cox is coming to Disney+ in 2024. Kingpin already appeared on Marvel's Hawkeye series.

Rumor is Jessica Jones (Krysten Ritter) will also be coming back.

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by batgirl1969 »

I think She-Hulk should be a lesbian for real.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by theScribbler »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago critical drinker tweet.jpg
Bullshit Tweet and Tweeter.

"On December 10, 2020, during Disney's 2020 Investor Day, Kevin Feige announced that the [Ms. Marvel] series would premiere in late 2021"

If you find that Feige or anyone from Marvel announced She Hulk would premiere before that, I'll mail you a cookie.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

theScribbler wrote: 4 months ago
shevek wrote: 4 months ago critical drinker tweet.jpg
Bullshit Tweet and Tweeter.

"On December 10, 2020, during Disney's 2020 Investor Day, Kevin Feige announced that the [Ms. Marvel] series would premiere in late 2021"

If you find that Feige or anyone from Marvel announced She Hulk would premiere before that, I'll mail you a cookie.
Perhaps the confusion lies in the fact that She-Hulk was announced a year earlier than Ms. Marvel?

"She-Hulk was announced in August 2019, with Gao hired in November. Coiro joined to direct multiple episodes in September 2020, and Maslany was cast."

Yes, not sure what Drinker was thinking - he should've provided a source. But then again, Marvel should've provided a better show.
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I found a German expat bodybuilder actress who cosplays Titania: Kerstin Schulze. A literal Amazon goddess, she was in American Horror Story, and played a villainess in a Kim Possible live-action mini-series.

She would have been fantastic in the role. Jamil doesn't even look bulky enough to play Titania.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by theScribbler »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago
theScribbler wrote: 4 months ago
shevek wrote: 4 months ago critical drinker tweet.jpg
Bullshit Tweet and Tweeter.

"On December 10, 2020, during Disney's 2020 Investor Day, Kevin Feige announced that the [Ms. Marvel] series would premiere in late 2021"

If you find that Feige or anyone from Marvel announced She Hulk would premiere before that, I'll mail you a cookie.
Perhaps the confusion lies in the fact that She-Hulk was announced a year earlier than Ms. Marvel?

"She-Hulk was announced in August 2019, with Gao hired in November. Coiro joined to direct multiple episodes in September 2020, and Maslany was cast."
No
She-Hulk was not announced a year earlier than Ms. Marvel.
Crap research is always going to get you crap results.
You be wrong as usual.

Please try harder.

The development of Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk was announced at the same August 2019 D23 Expo.

Premiere dates:
For Ms. Marvel premiere, Marvel announced ranges like 'late 2021,' 'early 2022,' 'summer 2022' and finally an actual date: June 8 2022. All MM premiere ranges and date come before Marvel's announced date for She-Hulk premiere: August 17, 2022.


NEVER WAS SHE-HULK supposed to, intended to, come out, be released, before MS. MARVEL.

Marvel announcing Ms. Marvel in development =
"On August 23, 2019,
at D23 Expo 2019, Kevin Feige announced that Marvel Studios was developing a limited television series centered on Ms. Marvel for Disney+"

Marvel announcing Ms. Marvel premiere dates =
"On December 10, 2020,
during Disney's 2020 Investor Day, Kevin Feige announced that the [Ms. Marvel] series would premiere in late 2021"

"On August 2, 2021,
TVLine reported that the series would premiere in early 2022 instead of late 2021."

"On November 10, 2021,
it was announced that the series would premiere in the summer of 2022."

and finally, actual Ms. Marvel premiere date =
"On March 15, 2022,
it was announced that the series would premiere on June 8"

Marvel announcing She-Hulk in development aka same as for Ms. Marvel
"On August 23, 2019,
at D23 Expo 2019, Kevin Feige announced that Marvel Studios was developing a limited television series centered on She-Hulk for Disney+"

Marvel announcing She-Hulk premiere date =
"On May 17, 2022,
it was announced that the series had been retitled from She-Hulk to She-Hulk: Attorney at Law, that the series would premiere on August 17,
shevek wrote: 4 months ago Yes, not sure what Drinker was thinking - he should've provided a source. But then again, Marvel should've provided a better show.
This is what he was thinking:
"Man, I sure love to lie all the time. I hope shevek takes a screen cap of me lying tweet and spreads it around."

Re: better show:
Well, at least it's way way better than anything Hburgh.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

I didn't do any "research". I merely stated the anouncement date, and wondered if that was the confusion in the guy's claim.
If what Critical Drinker said was flat-out wrong, then it's wrong. Fair enough. I'm fine to admit it. It's no big deal, nor the end of the world.

But what you're doing above pretty much amounts to what in middle school we used to call "taking a spazz" (yeah, I know it's politically incorrect to use that word these days according to the Twitterati, but it fits). Not to mention the uncalled-for attack on my production which costs 1/10,000th to make what a single She-Hulk episode does, I'm sure (and yet contains ten times the amount of tight spandex).

Anyway, the She-Hulk show isn't good. Hard to imagine anything that's going to save it thematically, not to mention the perpetually bad CGI
which will continue to plague the character if Jen Walters joins the Avengers or any other team in future series or movies.

Its main device seems to be badly written comedy that doesn't land, and its main raison d'etre seems to be to pile up character swaps
faster than a whole season of CW shows. When I have Darna and other shows to enjoy, I'm probably going to stop right there at Episode 5.
Which is a real shame, because it could have been so much better in almost anyone else's hands other than Gao, Coiro and Schwartz.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by theScribbler »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago I didn't do any "research". I merely stated the anouncement date, and wondered if that was the confusion in the guy's claim.
If what Critical Drinker said was flat-out wrong, then it's wrong. Fair enough. I'm fine to admit it. It's no big deal, nor the end of the world.

But what you're doing above pretty much amounts to what in middle school we used to call "taking a spazz" (yeah, I know it's politically incorrect to use that word these days according to the Twitterati, but it fits). Not to mention the uncalled-for attack on my production which costs 1/10,000th to make what a single She-Hulk episode does, I'm sure (and yet contains ten times the amount of tight spandex).

Anyway, the She-Hulk show isn't good. Hard to imagine anything that's going to save it thematically, not to mention the perpetually bad CGI
which will continue to plague the character if Jen Walters joins the Avengers or any other team in future series or movies.

Its main device seems to be badly written comedy that doesn't land, and its main raison d'etre seems to be to pile up character swaps
faster than a whole season of CW shows. When I have Darna and other shows to enjoy, I'm probably going to stop right there at Episode 5.
Which is a real shame, because it could have been so much better in almost anyone else's hands other than Gao, Coiro and Schwartz.
Wasn't familiar with what your middle school used to call "taking a spazz" but a quick google search shows yet again you don't know what you're talking about.

Your so-called uncalled for attack is just an honest quickie comparison. Hardly an attack.

Yes. It's a badly written show.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by helstar »

Uhmmmm....

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by shevek »

helstar wrote: 4 months ago Uhmmmm....
It's not just a filter on Tiktok that looks better.

It's the entire "Shamelessly She-Hulk" fan movie (by Garrett Gilchrist, from 15 years ago) that looks better.
The Jen actress, the She-Hulk actress (gorgeous!), the Titania actress (sexy and muscular), the actors playing Zapper, Trask and her dad. Pretty much everything. And the humor hits spot on, plus there's fourth-wall. If you haven't seen it yet, go look at it now.
(It exists in many pieces on his Youtube channel).



Actually, Gilchrist did put an edited version (93 minutes or so) of the She-Hulk movie on Youtube. It's a great document to have - I would encourage everyone to download!

http://www.mediafire.com/file/rvbitb9et ... EE57D0.mp4

Here's a fun She-Hulk critical video from It's a Gundam. Near the end he also talks about Razorfist's postulation that the upcoming Daredevil reboot will also be trash because of who is writing it.

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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Femina »

shevek wrote: 4 months ago I didn't do any "research". I merely stated the anouncement date, and wondered if that was the confusion in the guy's claim.
If what Critical Drinker said was flat-out wrong, then it's wrong. Fair enough. I'm fine to admit it. It's no big deal, nor the end of the world.
The Critical Drinker is just that... a critical DRINKER. He's got a solid head on his shoulders for matters of storytelling and narrative in general, likely just as result of having seen an awful lot of movies just like the rest of us, but his judgment commonly just has too much stink of opinionated fence siding... there's not necessarily anything wrong with that on the outset... I've often thought if I was gonna start a youtube review thing I'd name my channel 'The Unprofessional' so it was crystal clear right off the bat you're watching nothing more than an opinion piece. I think it's the 'critical' in the Drinker I tend to find issue with because I don't think he's neutral enough to be a proper critic. He's right on the money often about issues of story, narrative cohesion and progression, cinematography etc........... but all it takes to set him off is a woman in the leading role and suddenly, like so many other youtubers on that fence, nothing else in the film matters and the review holds a clear slant of 'this is now shit and nothing can save it cause it's not in my political wheelhouse'

I think I tend to agree with what he's got to say when it's about nonpolitical issues of film making and almost NEVER about anything else. Any time someone tries to 'mary sue' away a character they've commonly excused in 'gary stus' or starts listing off sequences as plot holes 'thus bad' they've excused in other films for decades my eyes immediately glaze over. A good primer for whether I think someone's a good critic or not is 'The Last Jedi".... If you recognize in your critique that the film is an unbelievably selfish film, a shit sequel and a shit prequel, but honestly a pretty decent standalone film....... that absolutely should not BE a Standalone film. I'll typically nod and agree............. if the 'critic' starts listing off plot holes like 'bombs don't drop in spaaaace!?' I know they aren't a critic. They've recognized that the film doesn't sit right with them on an emotional level... and don't know how to articulate WHY...... so they leap to little snippets of things they DONT hold against other Star Wars films. There's no sound in space everyone, Bombs defying gravity in outer space is NOT less acceptably real than sound in space. Both are binary 'No's against the laws of physics. You just liked the other movies.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Mr. X »

It is odd the show is at its 5th episode and has not gotten into an overall plot. Usually the Marvel shows are 9 or so episodes with a running plot. This is just week to week procedural stuff. Do they ever explain how Titania is so strong? Is she getting blood transfusions from Abomination and that's why she wanted to find him?
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by Femina »

Mr. X wrote: 4 months ago It is odd the show is at its 5th episode and has not gotten into an overall plot. Usually the Marvel shows are 9 or so episodes with a running plot. This is just week to week procedural stuff. Do they ever explain how Titania is so strong? Is she getting blood transfusions from Abomination and that's why she wanted to find him?
Yeah.... It doesn't really FEEL like a sitcom enough to get away with the meandering it's doing. It needs to be doing... SOMETHING... there's too much progression to be a sitcom... episodes flow into one another and make mention of previous episodes... but then with basically no payoff. Titania returns and we mention 'oh its titania' but how the f'k is she participating in ad campaigns and not like... you know... on the RAFT! The Status quo isn't necessarily 'exact' at the start and end of each episode... and the episodes themselves are pretty unfocused and short on a plot... even a Sitcom episode needs to be doing something IN THE EPISODE. Thus far, outside of maybe the first episode of the show, She-Hulk has mostly just been 'some stuff happening' in sequence... my least favorite form of time wasting.
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Re: She-Hulk (Disney +, 2021)

Post by theScribbler »

I don't think I've ever seen such a milquetoast character who's supposedly a good lawyer that a big important firm would hire to run their superhero division. What happened to the Jen in Episode one, getting advise and training from Bruce and having a good degree of confidence and even showing up Bruce.

I liked this actress just fine in Perry Mason HBO. In She-Hulk, the writers are doing her a real disservice. It's like the writers of this show hate her.

This is my reaction after six episodes. Three more to go.
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