Non-starter elements in SHIP videos

[DrDominator9]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here: Giving notation of those elements that damage a video's appeal for those who purchase videos.

A) A subtle one but when a heroine "helps" a villain in some way during an assault on her, that's a killer for me. For example, why would a heroine hold open the gusset on her panties to aid a villain in penetration. I saw this recently in a Giga video. Destroys the dramatic moment completely.

B) Complete nudity at the conclusion of a video. Need some semblance of costume remaining or it just becomes another porn video.

C) Whining by the heroine or stupid pouting. Are you a heroine or a schoolgirl? Even with rookie heroines this can be a turnoff.

How about you? What kills the mood for you instantaneously in a SHIP film? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Danorian]

Them whining "My powers" as they're being fucked. Would they lose their powers if they masturbate?

[DrDominator9]

Interesting, Danorian. Thanks for the response.

[Kitten]

Stuff that most heroines don't have... Things like...

Tattoos are a pet peeve for me. The larger and more notable the greater the irritation.

I would much rather they stay in costume to cover the tattoo than show it all and put tattoos out there to be seen. A effort like some body make up or some such to make it less notable couldnt hurt either.

Odd piercings, like on the nose or the lip sort of break the illusion too. Sometimes something like a nipple or clit ring could be sexy, especially if it's put into the story, like it's something that's keeping their powers away could be appealing, but it's rare that it's done.

It might be just me, but i think there are others of this opinion too.

[DonShip]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here: Giving notation of those elements that damage a video's appeal for those who purchase videos.

A) A subtle one but when a heroine "helps" a villain in some way during an assault on her, that's a killer for me. For example, why would a heroine hold open the gusset on her panties to aid a villain in penetration. I saw this recently in a Giga video. Destroys the dramatic moment completely.

B) Complete nudity at the conclusion of a video. Need some semblance of costume remaining or it just becomes another porn video.

C) Whining by the heroine or stupid pouting. Are you a heroine or a schoolgirl? Even with rookie heroines this can be a turnoff.

How about you? What kills the mood for you instantaneously in a SHIP film? Inquiring minds want to know.

These are all good. I agree with them all, though I had to look up "gusset"

Anyway, I prefer a heroine to BE heroic, at least in the beginning. She should kick butt, but the bad guys get the drop on her due to overconfidence, or a weakness of hers they exploit. Or there are too many for her to fight, and they overwhelm her. After that, drugs, hypnotism, brainwashing, an epic limbido she can't control... All are fair game to me. Like you, I never like it when a heroine is complete stripped. I enjoy a good unmasking. Very hot. But leave on things that don't get in the way of sex, like gloves, boots, chokers, etc...

Oh, debooting is a strong buzz kill for me.

[bushwackerbob]

I agree on the aforementioned tattoos, the superheroine persona and tattoos don't go together unless you have an edgy, underground superheroine. The tickling aspect while the heroine is bound, I find stupid, making the heroine involuntarily laugh at her predicament gives off vibes that she likes the treatment, which doesn't really mesh with superheroine peril. I find it inelegant for a superheroine to curse in a SHIP film, that language is not exactly suitable for a fine and upstanding heroine that serves as a role model. Actresses and models who swear take me out of that superheroine fantasy when they start using cuss words. I like superheroine hypno videos, but I could do without the cross eyed, mesmerized look, I don't find it sexy, it looks creepy. If you are going to remove the heroine's mask, please don't use that awful looking black gunk in and around her eyes, that stuff takes away from the heroine's beauty and diminishes her lovely eyes surrounded by that junk on her face. Aesthetic beauty trumps realism in that instance for me.

[Dazzle1]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here: Giving notation of those elements that damage a video's appeal for those who purchase videos.

A) A subtle one but when a heroine "helps" a villain in some way during an assault on her, that's a killer for me. For example, why would a heroine hold open the gusset on her panties to aid a villain in penetration. I saw this recently in a Giga video. Destroys the dramatic moment completely.

B) Complete nudity at the conclusion of a video. Need some semblance of costume remaining or it just becomes another porn video.

C) Whining by the heroine or stupid pouting. Are you a heroine or a schoolgirl? Even with rookie heroines this can be a turnoff.

How about you? What kills the mood for you instantaneously in a SHIP film? Inquiring minds want to know.

I agree A and C. Especially C, when I see Batgirl or WomanWoman beg right away I am thinking you are a superheroine?

I don't have a problem with full nudity especially if it fits the story if it become more sensual and less pain and bondage

I'll add these ones

A performer who does not look the part. I am going to risk fat shaming accusations, but an overweight flabby superheroine need not apply anymore than the majority of Dick Graysons with large balds spots

a subcategory is even a performer in shape who does not fit the part. Batgirl and Black Canary need to be thin and lithe. If I may use Christina's Carter's and Kendra James films as the template. Christina can play Catwoman and WonderWoman but her body has never fit playing BatGirl, likewise Kendra James is better suited to BatWoman or Poison Ivy.

Next

Cheap costume, if the performer has something that looks like you could buy it at Walmart on Halloween

Subjective for me

Easy captures - When the heroine is oblvious to their surroundings or the opponent pulls out something and knocks them out with no conflict

Ridicolous bondage, Ill use Kink production here. Some of the positions you need the willing cooperation of the victim to get into these positions

Missed Bushwackers post, I agree on excessive body art, but it's a turnoff for me superheroine or anything else

[spandex4fun]

I agree with those turns offs. Here my turn offs:

1. Cheap costumes. I know some producers are in limited budget just like every indie creators, but seeing costumes that looks like you get at local Wal-mart & Target is another sign that you put no effort in making SHIP video. Sites like Printcostume now able to print high quality spandex suits from $60-$130 plus shipping since it’s from China. That where I got my suits from after I design the patterns.

2. Poor Sound & visual FX. Again, I understand the budget limitations & not only that, but on VFX side, 3d modeling is difficult af since I’m still learning myself. I stop watch some videos cuz of poorly edit sound effects & visuals.

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here: Giving notation of those elements that damage a video's appeal for those who purchase videos.

A) A subtle one but when a heroine "helps" a villain in some way during an assault on her, that's a killer for me. For example, why would a heroine hold open the gusset on her panties to aid a villain in penetration. I saw this recently in a Giga video. Destroys the dramatic moment completely.

B) Complete nudity at the conclusion of a video. Need some semblance of costume remaining or it just becomes another porn video.

C) Whining by the heroine or stupid pouting. Are you a heroine or a schoolgirl? Even with rookie heroines this can be a turnoff.

How about you? What kills the mood for you instantaneously in a SHIP film? Inquiring minds want to know.

[joejanus]

I would caution any producer reading this thread to remember that these are all personal, individual turn-offs, and some, perhaps most, of your buyers may like things that I hate. I don't like vids of just putting the heroine to sleep, but some people absolutely love that, and more power to them. I am not the dictator of taste. That said.....

My first turn-off is using the heroine as a punching bag. Enough to lose a fight or be subdued is OK, but 15 minutes of gut punches makes me stop watching.

Also, although I love seeing a heroine squirm helplessly in tight bondage, a few minutes is my limit. Most probably because I like a story to go with the adventure. If you just want them squirming, then I suggest you up the bondage every few minutes, or at least up the ante. Wonder Woman in the Orgasm Trap did this right. Before poor Christina's struggling could get boring, the villain kept adding new touches to make it worse.

[merkin1964]

This is a great discussion! There's a surprising amount of consensus here. I figured there'd be a lot of contradicting dislikes. I agree with quite a few pointed out here. I'll list a few of mine, though some have pointed a couple out already:

1. Blood - this is probably the number 1 turnoff for me. Don't like explicit violence like that and it might be part of the reason why I like the superheroine genre as it justifies the lack of blood.

2. Tattoos - completely agree with everyone here! Tattoos are actually OK for me on a villain but a dealbreaker on a heroine unless they can be covered up with costume or makeup. Not to mention just the basic story logic problem of a superheroine with a secret identity having a big, obvious tattoo!

3. The speaking voice of the actress - along the lines of being right for the part, I find it annoying when the model may look the part but the second she opens her mouth and a squeaky, un-heroine-like voice comes out, it's a turnoff. Or maybe a Valley Girl-like cadence and vocal fry. It completely takes me out of the fantasy. Yet another reason why the aforementioned Christina Carter is one of the best is because she can play Wonder Woman with a serious, commanding voice.

4. Costume - I agree on the cheap costume issue. I didn't realize how much this bothered me until I did some customs where I ponied up for better costumes. Wasn't sure if it would be worth the investment but it absolutely was. It's amazing what a well-made, flattering costume can add to the fantasy.

An honorable mention is the swearing issue. I agree that it isn't very heroine-like and would prefer the heroine didn't do it but it's not a dealbreaker for me. I acknowledge that when a model is being filmed performing an actual orgasm that she may not always be able to control what words come out of her mouth. Simple solution of course is to gag her!

[jigoku]

Here's the list of the 10 things I hate in a SHIP videos :
- Heroine with tattoes
- Piercing, brace
- Sex toys (vibromassor, dildo, vibrators)
- Tickling (instant turn off)
- Stripping the heroine before assault : (In the very end, it's ok). The ennemy can strip her in the end and leave with her costume as trophy.
- Cheap costumes (Supergirl or Batgirl without cape, or latex costumes) Example : All about Eve Studio's costumes
- Oversexy costume (Heroine wearing g-string, thong or two high-cut leotard). I prefer modest heroines.
- Studio who use always the same location for shooting.
- Sex only : I prefer videos who contains fighting scenes or peril scenes. I'm fine if the sexual content is just implied like in the old "Heroine in Peril" studio.
- Heroine who give in too quickly : In too many of videos, the heroine resists only at the beginning and quickly give in to pleasure so it becomes consensual sex. She's a crime fighter, not a whore damn it. She must resist and fight it until she's totally broken.

[Dazzle1]

Here's the list of the 10 things I hate in a SHIP videos :
- Heroine with tattoes
- Piercing, brace
- Sex toys (vibromassor, dildo, vibrators)
- Tickling (instant turn off)
- Stripping the heroine before assault : (In the very end, it's ok). The ennemy can strip her in the end and leave with her costume as trophy.
- Cheap costumes (Supergirl or Batgirl without cape, or latex costumes) Example : All about Eve Studio's costumes
- Oversexy costume (Heroine wearing g-string, thong or two high-cut leotard). I prefer modest heroines.
- Studio who use always the same location for shooting.
- Sex only : I prefer videos who contains fighting scenes or peril scenes. I'm fine if the sexual content is just implied like in the old "Heroine in Peril" studio.
- Heroine who give in too quickly : In too many of videos, the heroine resists only at the beginning and quickly give in to pleasure so it becomes consensual sex. She's a crime fighter, not a whore damn it. She must resist and fight it until she's totally broken.

Your point of the studio is a good one and it lead me to another of mine, a studio who does the same theme only changing the superheroine: Same studio, same bondage, same end result.

[PartsUnknown]

The heroine winning is a big no-no for me.

[Dazzle1]

The heroine winning is a big no-no for me.

I happen to like that.

Kendra James does that fairly well.

[Freon]

In addition to aforementioned turnoffs like cheap production values and too much sexual overtone, a lot of mine are plotholes or internal/cannon logic issues, which I know might seem like grasping straws but hey, it's a niche genre and things like that sometimes add up. I can't speak for everyone, but the appeal for me is a certain level of authenticity. For me, it should "feel" like a regular show, movie, etc but with some stronger kink elements, not just a flimsy, nonsensical prelude to pornographic content.

Here's an example of something that I see from time to time that I find perplexing: A villain from a franchise (or an original blatantly meant to be a surrogate of an existing one) with an established power or gimmick that has nothing to do with their motivation or the peril they put the heroine in. If you want to use Poison Ivy, don't just have her chain Batgirl up when she could be using vines for bondage. Don't use Doctor Doom if you're just going to make him threaten Sue Storm with a revolver. If you come up with an original villain, add a little flavor to their villainy that relates to the name or theme you give them so it doesn't just feel like a colorful costume they wear while putting the heroine through a standard rope and handkerchief gag imprisonment, and occasionally give them a motivation that isn't just messing with or fucking the heroine.

Adding to both flimsy story and cheap production is the set. I know not all videos are going to have a budget to facilitate this, but if the scene is set in someone's living room or an obvious hotel room, it can really kill the mood in most cases. I get that that's where a lot of fetish videos get shot on the cheap and it tends to work for the story in many other cases, but here it often doesn't have a great reason to take place in those specific places. It's like, oh no! Harley Quinn has lured Huntress to her location, and now has her tied to the bedposts, and it's only an hour til check-out time! Will housekeeping find her before she gets charged for another night?!

Details like this may not seem like a big priority, but a little extra thought toward planning and story will go a long way to keep a video from feeling like the superheroine theme was an afterthought that the creator addressed by putting everybody in a Spirit Halloween costume.

[SHL]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here

The mass majority of superheroine filmmakers strictly are making customs, so the idea that any of this would be helpful only applies to like 2 directors

[DrDominator9]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here

The mass majority of superheroine filmmakers strictly are making customs, so the idea that any of this would be helpful only applies to like 2 directors

Perhaps you're right but it's still worth discussing.

[Mr. X]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here

The mass majority of superheroine filmmakers strictly are making customs, so the idea that any of this would be helpful only applies to like 2 directors

And I would add a lot of lower budget producers don't have a lot of choices on who they can get or where they can shoot. Paragon did a damned good job getting models. No idea how he did it. But most were shot in hotel rooms.

[bushwackerbob]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here

The mass majority of superheroine filmmakers strictly are making customs, so the idea that any of this would be helpful only applies to like 2 directors

And I would add a lot of lower budget producers don't have a lot of choices on who they can get or where they can shoot. Paragon did a damned good job getting models. No idea how he did it. But most were shot in hotel rooms.

When I first found this SHIP community, the hotel room SHIP films didn't bother me as much, the whole idea of SHIP films was such a novelty, but after a while, it felt like a redundancy, you started seeing the hotel thing in SHIP everywhere, it became obvious, I imagine, to a lot of us, that it was being done on the cheap, which is fine if that is what one is looking for and if this might be your entree into SHIP community and or films, but I suspect the longer one is in this community, the higher the expectations are for story, sets, and at least for modest production values. That's my take anyway.

[batgirl1969]

Warehouses, storage unit sets and basements work great for scenes, also big garages with cool cars!!

[SHL]

When I first found this SHIP community, the hotel room SHIP films didn't bother me as much, the whole idea of SHIP films was such a novelty, but after a while, it felt like a redundancy, you started seeing the hotel thing in SHIP everywhere, it became obvious, I imagine, to a lot of us, that it was being done on the cheap, which is fine if that is what one is looking for and if this might be your entree into SHIP community and or films, but I suspect the longer one is in this community, the higher the expectations are for story, sets, and at least for modest production values. That's my take anyway.

Ironically - I believe the financial trend moves in the opposite direction of your expectations. I have heard about the money some people were making in this business in the 2000-2010 era and while I can't speak from the perspective as an individual making films in that decade - I can at least attest to the fact that the profits have only decreased since then.

I think everyones responses here show the truth, at least when it comes to the argument of a 'benefit to directors', that everyones taste is so wildly different that there is no satisfying everyone, that in taking the note from one customer you take a step away from another.

For perspective you bring up the point that the longer you consume heroine content the more you desire something beyond 'hotel rooms' while jigoku states "Studio who use always the same location for shooting" as a non starter.

So, a new and upcoming superheroine producer who might be shooting in hotel rooms then rents or buys a studio to 'upgrade' away from hotel rooms, yet, unless they redecorate that studio every time they make a new film Jigoku won't be satisfied.

I think its rather simple - people want Hollywood results for their $20 bucks, but they ain't going to get it. If a producer doesn't satisfy the audience, the audience will subject them to a tongue lashing, if the producer stops engaging in the tongue lashing, they shall face the scorn of 1000 hells.

I think this summer there has been a drought from new content, interesting content and I suspect it might stay that way for awhile. I know there was a post on here about 'the golden age of SHIP' that was rather divisive (I did in fact add some fuel to that fire) but I am predicting we are about to enter whatever the opposite of that is... 'the dark age of SHIP' maybe?

To anyone reading this - I don't mean to yuck your yum, please don't refrain from your conversation because of me tossing a stick into it but... I do in fact think this audience was spoiled in riches for a long time, I think the plank on that time has already been pulled and I think people should be prepared not to get their demands met but rather - be prepared to get little to nothing of what they want from this genre.

So next time you see a hotel room in a video, I dunno, use your imagination a little bit. Crash landing incoming in 3... 2... 1...

[SHL]

I'm opening a general discussion here that may be of some help to producers here

The mass majority of superheroine filmmakers strictly are making customs, so the idea that any of this would be helpful only applies to like 2 directors

And I would add a lot of lower budget producers don't have a lot of choices on who they can get or where they can shoot. Paragon did a damned good job getting models. No idea how he did it. But most were shot in hotel rooms.

The men holding pitchforks don't care about the reality, this is a genre of fantasy so they choose to stay in that mindset

[bushwackerbob]

When I first found this SHIP community, the hotel room SHIP films didn't bother me as much, the whole idea of SHIP films was such a novelty, but after a while, it felt like a redundancy, you started seeing the hotel thing in SHIP everywhere, it became obvious, I imagine, to a lot of us, that it was being done on the cheap, which is fine if that is what one is looking for and if this might be your entree into SHIP community and or films, but I suspect the longer one is in this community, the higher the expectations are for story, sets, and at least for modest production values. That's my take anyway.

Ironically - I believe the financial trend moves in the opposite direction of your expectations. I have heard about the money some people were making in this business in the 2000-2010 era and while I can't speak from the perspective as an individual making films in that decade - I can at least attest to the fact that the profits have only decreased since then.

I think everyones responses here show the truth, at least when it comes to the argument of a 'benefit to directors', that everyones taste is so wildly different that there is no satisfying everyone, that in taking the note from one customer you take a step away from another.

For perspective you bring up the point that the longer you consume heroine content the more you desire something beyond 'hotel rooms' while jigoku states "Studio who use always the same location for shooting" as a non starter.

So, a new and upcoming superheroine producer who might be shooting in hotel rooms then rents or buys a studio to 'upgrade' away from hotel rooms, yet, unless they redecorate that studio every time they make a new film Jigoku won't be satisfied.

I think its rather simple - people want Hollywood results for their $20 bucks, but they ain't going to get it. If a producer doesn't satisfy the audience, the audience will subject them to a tongue lashing, if the producer stops engaging in the tongue lashing, they shall face the scorn of 1000 hells.

I think this summer there has been a drought from new content, interesting content and I suspect it might stay that way for awhile. I know there was a post on here about 'the golden age of SHIP' that was rather divisive (I did in fact add some fuel to that fire) but I am predicting we are about to enter whatever the opposite of that is... 'the dark age of SHIP' maybe?

To anyone reading this - I don't mean to yuck your yum, please don't refrain from your conversation because of me tossing a stick into it but... I do in fact think this audience was spoiled in riches for a long time, I think the plank on that time has already been pulled and I think people should be prepared not to get their demands met but rather - be prepared to get little to nothing of what they want from this genre.

So next time you see a hotel room in a video, I dunno, use your imagination a little bit. Crash landing incoming in 3... 2... 1...

I work hard to earn a living, same as you, I am not made of money, but I do OK. If I am going to spend money on a SHIP film, I make sure it is a quality film with a good actress, a good story, loads of peril and superheroine humiliation with at least passably decent production values, no hotel rooms. For my money, "using my imagination" doesn't cut it for the money I am doling out. I don't have money to throw away on stuff that I don't consider first rate SHIP. I do agree with your points that we were spoiled, and we are fickle about what we want and don't want in SHIP films. You simply cannot satisfy everybody in the community, all of us have diverse subfetishes within SHIP. When I first discovered this SHIP community, I bought films left and right, and as soon as I amassed about 20 of them, I discovered only a small fraction of them I found satisfactory. That was my fault, I bought films that seemed like had a great premise or a gorgeous actress, hoping the rest of the film would meet my expectations but many of these films I came to regret purchasing, so much money wasted on these films. Again, my fault. I learned from that, to be more particular with my purchases, avoid SHIP producers whose films didn't wow me or failed to produce an enjoyable film in the past, films where the villains had masks, but the heroine did not, SHIP films with heroines with garish tattoos. I also learned to purchase SHIP films from producers who make first rate films I enjoy, like SHL. You can call us in the SHIP community fussy and too discerning, and I would agree with that 100%, but I would also say we just want to make sure we get the bang for our buck, we get the entertainment value for the prices we are paying out to you good SHIP producer folks. No one wants an unsatisfactory purchase.

[SHL]

I work hard to earn a living, same as you, I am not made of money, but I do OK. If I am going to spend money on a SHIP film, I make sure it is a quality film with a good actress, a good story, loads of peril and superheroine humiliation with at least passably decent production values, no hotel rooms. For my money, "using my imagination" doesn't cut it for the money I am doling out. I don't have money to throw away on stuff that I don't consider first rate SHIP. I do agree with your points that we were spoiled, and we are fickle about what we want and don't want in SHIP films. You simply cannot satisfy everybody in the community, all of us have diverse subfetishes within SHIP. When I first discovered this SHIP community, I bought films left and right, and as soon as I amassed about 20 of them, I discovered only a small fraction of them I found satisfactory. That was my fault, I bought films that seemed like had a great premise or a gorgeous actress, hoping the rest of the film would meet my expectations but many of these films I came to regret purchasing, so much money wasted on these films. Again, my fault. I learned from that, to be more particular with my purchases, avoid SHIP producers whose films didn't wow me or failed to produce an enjoyable film in the past, films where the villains had masks, but the heroine did not, SHIP films with heroines with garish tattoos. I also learned to purchase SHIP films from producers who make first rate films I enjoy, like SHL. You can call us in the SHIP community fussy and too discerning, and I would agree with that 100%, but I would also say we just want to make sure we get the bang for our buck, we get the entertainment value for the prices we are paying out to you good SHIP producer folks. No one wants an unsatisfactory purchase.

For reference the 'Hollywood for $20 bucks' wasn't directed at you, but the sentiment/comment that Jigoku made about wanting a variation of sets to be satisfied. And even still I am not solely directing my comment at Jigoku - once again I am critiquing the sentiment/attitude that is an undertone in the way many people in comment sections sound like in this genre.

As a customer of this genre (not all directors and producers of SHIP actually enjoy SHIP, if anything the majority of them are not superheroine fetishist) I get feeling 'burned' by buying things that don't live up to expectations. I am NOT advocating for buying things you wouldn't enjoy... more so pointing to the fact that - the future of this genre is probably going to be less releases and less big productions, and that appears to be happening... now. So this dissection/advice/etc of personal taste this chat is/was intended to be feels like giving advice to a race horse thats bleeding out on the field.

"You can call us in the SHIP community fussy and too discerning" let me correct that - I could call the SHIP community unwaveringly cruel and hateful. This summer places like HeroineMovies has been filled with commentary thats beyond critique, hateful, mean, petty and punishing. And I am not even saying this as a reaction to what is being said about me - but what I read people post about other directors and the acting talent that is showcased in our film-work. Something has been in the water and its a real buzzkill. When I read it and see it - its hard to imagine why any new directing talent would want to subject themselves to it, its hard to imagine why directors/producers would go out of their way to read it and its hard to imagine why talent would want to put themselves on the radar to be judged.

Anyway, I am not saying this as a criticism of you Bushwackerbob. Just as a reaction after reading threads like this and wondering who is the intended audience outside of a couple dudes talking about their kinks to one another. I figure every now and then I should throw my hat into the conversation and say

"I THINK THE GENRES DYING maybe like... take your foot off its neck so it can last a couple minutes longer."

I know that isn't whats going to happen. But... a boy likes to dream

[Dazzle1]

Reading through the last days post, the genere and electronic media may be going through a shift that it will have to adapt to.

In the non adult media, the public is dealing with a splintered offering were you would have to spend hundred of dollars to see everything on cable plus streaming, I don't think it is sustainable long term

In our genre and adult, it is going somewhat custom, but there was a time where you had the extremly tame: Paragon, Darla Crane transitioning the more erotic like CC or Kendra James or the extreme ones like Dungeon Corp, now custom

But the economic problem may be insoulable with hte free streaming sites, you can evenutally see things for free

[bushwackerbob]

I work hard to earn a living, same as you, I am not made of money, but I do OK. If I am going to spend money on a SHIP film, I make sure it is a quality film with a good actress, a good story, loads of peril and superheroine humiliation with at least passably decent production values, no hotel rooms. For my money, "using my imagination" doesn't cut it for the money I am doling out. I don't have money to throw away on stuff that I don't consider first rate SHIP. I do agree with your points that we were spoiled, and we are fickle about what we want and don't want in SHIP films. You simply cannot satisfy everybody in the community, all of us have diverse subfetishes within SHIP. When I first discovered this SHIP community, I bought films left and right, and as soon as I amassed about 20 of them, I discovered only a small fraction of them I found satisfactory. That was my fault, I bought films that seemed like had a great premise or a gorgeous actress, hoping the rest of the film would meet my expectations but many of these films I came to regret purchasing, so much money wasted on these films. Again, my fault. I learned from that, to be more particular with my purchases, avoid SHIP producers whose films didn't wow me or failed to produce an enjoyable film in the past, films where the villains had masks, but the heroine did not, SHIP films with heroines with garish tattoos. I also learned to purchase SHIP films from producers who make first rate films I enjoy, like SHL. You can call us in the SHIP community fussy and too discerning, and I would agree with that 100%, but I would also say we just want to make sure we get the bang for our buck, we get the entertainment value for the prices we are paying out to you good SHIP producer folks. No one wants an unsatisfactory purchase.

For reference the 'Hollywood for $20 bucks' wasn't directed at you, but the sentiment/comment that Jigoku made about wanting a variation of sets to be satisfied. And even still I am not solely directing my comment at Jigoku - once again I am critiquing the sentiment/attitude that is an undertone in the way many people in comment sections sound like in this genre.

As a customer of this genre (not all directors and producers of SHIP actually enjoy SHIP, if anything the majority of them are not superheroine fetishist) I get feeling 'burned' by buying things that don't live up to expectations. I am NOT advocating for buying things you wouldn't enjoy... more so pointing to the fact that - the future of this genre is probably going to be less releases and less big productions, and that appears to be happening... now. So this dissection/advice/etc of personal taste this chat is/was intended to be feels like giving advice to a race horse thats bleeding out on the field.

"You can call us in the SHIP community fussy and too discerning" let me correct that - I could call the SHIP community unwaveringly cruel and hateful. This summer places like HeroineMovies has been filled with commentary thats beyond critique, hateful, mean, petty and punishing. And I am not even saying this as a reaction to what is being said about me - but what I read people post about other directors and the acting talent that is showcased in our film-work. Something has been in the water and its a real buzzkill. When I read it and see it - its hard to imagine why any new directing talent would want to subject themselves to it, its hard to imagine why directors/producers would go out of their way to read it and its hard to imagine why talent would want to put themselves on the radar to be judged.

Anyway, I am not saying this as a criticism of you Bushwackerbob. Just as a reaction after reading threads like this and wondering who is the intended audience outside of a couple dudes talking about their kinks to one another. I figure every now and then I should throw my hat into the conversation and say

"I THINK THE GENRES DYING maybe like... take your foot off its neck so it can last a couple minutes longer."

I know that isn't whats going to happen. But... a boy likes to dream

I have read some of the stuff over at Heroine Movies and I agree, I have seen quite the toxic and mean spirited discourse, for sure. A lot of third and fourth grade level conversations there. I don't think our community here is unwaveringly cruel and hateful, I would hate our little and fledgling community here to be painted with the same broad brush thanks to the hooligans at Heroine Movies. Perhaps the presence of moderators here who step in when things get too contentious and heated is what separates us from the folks over there.

[Mr. X]

"I THINK THE GENRES DYING maybe like... take your foot off its neck so it can last a couple minutes longer."

I think this could be another topic but I sense this as well. Costumed heroine kink just doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. I think most of us in this kink got here cause Lynda Carter and Yvonne Craig and others were doing their thing when we went through puberty. Plus all the sexy drawn comics back then.

We don't see that level today. Nothing is hooking the next generation. Some fans - sure, but not the super kink level from our generation. If you notice a lot of the cosplay girls wearing the sexiest outfits are wearing classic, old school outfits. Not seeing a whole lot of sexy Capt Marvel cosplay (I'm sure someone will post an edge case pic to just to be different).

I also notice the super intense hentai stuff has died down. I can't think of a recent hentai tentacle porn video in a long time. Not like the old days.

Is it super heroines dying? Cosplay? Rough sex? All?

[Dazzle1]

"I THINK THE GENRES DYING maybe like... take your foot off its neck so it can last a couple minutes longer."

I think this could be another topic but I sense this as well. Costumed heroine kink just doesn't seem to be a thing anymore. I think most of us in this kink got here cause Lynda Carter and Yvonne Craig and others were doing their thing when we went through puberty. Plus all the sexy drawn comics back then.

We don't see that level today. Nothing is hooking the next generation. Some fans - sure, but not the super kink level from our generation. If you notice a lot of the cosplay girls wearing the sexiest outfits are wearing classic, old school outfits. Not seeing a whole lot of sexy Capt Marvel cosplay (I'm sure someone will post an edge case pic to just to be different).

I also notice the super intense hentai stuff has died down. I can't think of a recent hentai tentacle porn video in a long time. Not like the old days.

Is it super heroines dying? Cosplay? Rough sex? All?

Your point about CosPlay is a good one, I've looked to see any based on westerns or popular science fiction almost nothing.

[Mr. X]

Your point about CosPlay is a good one, I've looked to see any based on westerns or popular science fiction almost nothing.

Or when you see it, its based on older, classic stuff. Psylock or Wonder Woman etc. No wonder this genre is flat lining. No main stream naughty stuff to wreck the next generation of boys

[Dazzle1]

Your point about CosPlay is a good one, I've looked to see any based on westerns or popular science fiction almost nothing.

Or when you see it, its based on older, classic stuff. Psylock or Wonder Woman etc. No wonder this genre is flat lining. No main stream naughty stuff to wreck the next generation of boys

Yes when is the last time we have seen Wonder Woman in comics or in the D.C animation series dominated with her Magic Lasso or chained by a man.

Or seen aYvonne Craig style kick to someone's Jaw

[luther]

Very good discussion ...

Agree on tatoos or facial piercings. When I think of heroines I always think classy and natural. Good costumes a must. And yes, the costume needs to stay on partially.

More personal ones that I see on so many videos:

When the heroine keeps her forward leg up so you never get any great "money" tush shots. Since its "super" heroines ... big pet peeve is not getting models/actresses with great bodies. How can they be heavy and not close to "perfect" ... if there is a little chubyness then I pass it by. I would think there would be a ton of great strippers with great bods who might fine this genre fun and profitable. Although I've always wondered how Rye, BS and others recruit their lovely heroines. Lastly, I not a huge fan of the death stares, which creep me out a little, so I wish they would just her eyes closed either before or after the final ko scene for the money shot at the end. My 2 cents ... Luther

[sneakly]

Personally, I’m going to agree with bodies. They do not need to be super muscular, but at least tight. My big deal breaker is attitude. I like a woman that is defiant against all odds. As soon as they start simpering…. No, no… or get whiney, I am done.

CC did it really well. As O-girl or WW in the Kink.com videos, she looked good and acted tough. I like straight up bat-trap style perils, O-girl and Nylonika are both great at those. They don’t have to be super realistic, but if they get played for-real, it does a lot. I rather like sexual perils, but again, they have to be played for-real. If the heroine is supposed to be left to her fate on a fuck machine or a sybian, play it that way…

[bushwackerbob]

Your point about CosPlay is a good one, I've looked to see any based on westerns or popular science fiction almost nothing.

Or when you see it, its based on older, classic stuff. Psylock or Wonder Woman etc. No wonder this genre is flat lining. No main stream naughty stuff to wreck the next generation of boys

I don't want to get too morbid here, but I think the folks like us whose superheroine fetish was influenced by Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, Yvonne Craig's Batgirl, and Helen Slater's Supergirl, I suspect our generation that grew up on those awesome and titillating superheroines is dying off. The younger folks who develop our fetish are growing up with an entirely different set of images and influences, and thus the nature of their fetish is different than ours in some ways, and that is why you see the advent of hardcore SHIP.

[SHL]

The younger folks who develop our fetish are growing up with an entirely different set of images and influences, and thus the nature of their fetish is different than ours in some ways, and that is why you see the advent of hardcore SHIP.

What?

Hardcore SHIP isn’t a zoomer thing

[Philo Hunter]

What?

Hardcore SHIP isn’t a zoomer thing

I don't make videos, but I've been writing smut and dabbling in comics for nearly a decade. From what I've seen from fans/consumers there IS a total generational divide, a HUGE one.

Older folks (who seem to at least be the majority of frequent posters here) are WAY more likely to like stuff that's more centered on "peril" situations and is light on explicit sex. They also have a huge preference for low powered heroines like they grew up watching on TV and movies.

Younger fans of the genre grew up as digital natives with access to explicit content the older generation didn't. Their kinks were defined by porn in a lot of cases, by hentai and the abundance of actual smut-driven super heroine comics. They don't have the same fixation older folks do with fetishising main stream characters and are happier to have original characters who only exist in a smut setting. They also want more powers and set ups less reality based which are hard to get in a video. And they want/search out stuff more sex driven than the older generations do.

I'm not saying this is 100% universal, but it IS a huge difference, but maybe it's not as easy to see when you're hyper focused just on videos. My experience is younger people into this kink are way less likely to consume mainly videos/live action stuff.

I see the same kind of generational divide in real world kink clubs/bdsm play spaces as well, although to a far lesser degree. Younger people are more into direct sex stuff and less likely to be as focused on the less sex centered kink stuff.

[SHL]

What?

Hardcore SHIP isn’t a zoomer thing

I don't make videos, but I've been writing smut and dabbling in comics for nearly a decade. From what I've seen from fans/consumers there IS a total generational divide, a HUGE one.

Older folks (who seem to at least be the majority of frequent posters here) are WAY more likely to like stuff that's more centered on "peril" situations and is light on explicit sex. They also have a huge preference for low powered heroines like they grew up watching on TV and movies.

Younger fans of the genre grew up as digital natives with access to explicit content the older generation didn't. Their kinks were defined by porn in a lot of cases, by hentai and the abundance of actual smut-driven super heroine comics. They don't have the same fixation older folks do with fetishising main stream characters and are happier to have original characters who only exist in a smut setting. They also want more powers and set ups less reality based which are hard to get in a video. And they want/search out stuff more sex driven than the older generations do.

I'm not saying this is 100% universal, but it IS a huge difference, but maybe it's not as easy to see when you're hyper focused just on videos. My experience is younger people into this kink are way less likely to consume mainly videos/live action stuff.

I see the same kind of generational divide in real world kink clubs/bdsm play spaces as well, although to a far lesser degree. Younger people are more into direct sex stuff and less likely to be as focused on the less sex centered kink stuff.

I am been directing and selling films since 2009. I have tons (upon tons) of customer sales data. Hardcore content is NOT preferred by younger audiences. This isn't even my opinion, its a data driven statistic.

[Philo Hunter]

I am been directing and selling films since 2009. I have tons (upon tons) of customer sales data. Hardcore content is NOT preferred by younger audiences. This isn't even my opinion, its a data driven statistic.

100% believe your expertise, and maybe I shouldn't have joined in this conversation as this is about videos (as is the majority of this forum). Reading through the thread I think I just forgot that.

[bushwackerbob]

What?

Hardcore SHIP isn’t a zoomer thing

I don't make videos, but I've been writing smut and dabbling in comics for nearly a decade. From what I've seen from fans/consumers there IS a total generational divide, a HUGE one.

Older folks (who seem to at least be the majority of frequent posters here) are WAY more likely to like stuff that's more centered on "peril" situations and is light on explicit sex. They also have a huge preference for low powered heroines like they grew up watching on TV and movies.

Younger fans of the genre grew up as digital natives with access to explicit content the older generation didn't. Their kinks were defined by porn in a lot of cases, by hentai and the abundance of actual smut-driven super heroine comics. They don't have the same fixation older folks do with fetishising main stream characters and are happier to have original characters who only exist in a smut setting. They also want more powers and set ups less reality based which are hard to get in a video. And they want/search out stuff more sex driven than the older generations do.

I'm not saying this is 100% universal, but it IS a huge difference, but maybe it's not as easy to see when you're hyper focused just on videos. My experience is younger people into this kink are way less likely to consume mainly videos/live action stuff.

I see the same kind of generational divide in real world kink clubs/bdsm play spaces as well, although to a far lesser degree. Younger people are more into direct sex stuff and less likely to be as focused on the less sex centered kink stuff.

Thank you. You hit it right on the nose, I totally agree, you perfectly encapsulated what I was trying to say. For hardcore folks, the explicit sexual content is far more important than it is for softcore folks. It's the difference between the good and very talented and hard working folks at Primal (hardcore) and the offerings of someone like the legendary Rye (softcore). Both are SHIP but are very different styles under that umbrella.

[Dazzle1]

What?

Hardcore SHIP isn’t a zoomer thing

I don't make videos, but I've been writing smut and dabbling in comics for nearly a decade. From what I've seen from fans/consumers there IS a total generational divide, a HUGE one.

Older folks (who seem to at least be the majority of frequent posters here) are WAY more likely to like stuff that's more centered on "peril" situations and is light on explicit sex. They also have a huge preference for low powered heroines like they grew up watching on TV and movies.

Younger fans of the genre grew up as digital natives with access to explicit content the older generation didn't. Their kinks were defined by porn in a lot of cases, by hentai and the abundance of actual smut-driven super heroine comics. They don't have the same fixation older folks do with fetishising main stream characters and are happier to have original characters who only exist in a smut setting. They also want more powers and set ups less reality based which are hard to get in a video. And they want/search out stuff more sex driven than the older generations do.

I'm not saying this is 100% universal, but it IS a huge difference, but maybe it's not as easy to see when you're hyper focused just on videos. My experience is younger people into this kink are way less likely to consume mainly videos/live action stuff.

I see the same kind of generational divide in real world kink clubs/bdsm play spaces as well, although to a far lesser degree. Younger people are more into direct sex stuff and less likely to be as focused on the less sex centered kink stuff.

Thank you. You hit it right on the nose, I totally agree, you perfectly encapsulated what I was trying to say. For hardcore folks, the explicit sexual content is far more important than it is for softcore folks. It's the difference between the good and very talented and hard working folks at Primal (hardcore) and the offerings of someone like the legendary Rye (softcore). Both are SHIP but are very different styles under that umbrella.

A question , not a disagreement

But is anyone doing what could be truly hardcore in the superheroine fetish. When I think hardcore(which I have no interest in) for fetish. I think of performers beig whipped where you see the wounds, or major focus on the genatlia areas.

[Valleyvixin]

Non starters for me in superheroine peril are:
Superheroine being taken easily. Honestly, if I wanted to watch a normal woman being raped its easy to find. I need to feel invested in her as a woman of true power, before I can feel that I am watching superheroine peril.

I need enough to the costume to stay on so that at no point are we not aware who is being used.

I need her to be proud. When she yields it should be because of how she is being made to feel, not by being defeated. It is superheroine peril as an erotica, so I need her defeat to be succuming to the sexual degradation, not just losing a fight. Losing a fight is just a Tuesday. You cant fight for a living and not lose. Being tamed, now, that is different!

No death. Honestly, I am trying to get my jollies seeing myself as her. If you maim or kill her then we are back to creepy male violence which is what we all learn to avoid every damned day on this earth. I don't find it sexy, I find it tiring.

[Mr. X]

Your point about CosPlay is a good one, I've looked to see any based on westerns or popular science fiction almost nothing.

Or when you see it, its based on older, classic stuff. Psylock or Wonder Woman etc. No wonder this genre is flat lining. No main stream naughty stuff to wreck the next generation of boys

I don't want to get too morbid here, but I think the folks like us whose superheroine fetish was influenced by Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman, Yvonne Craig's Batgirl, and Helen Slater's Supergirl, I suspect our generation that grew up on those awesome and titillating superheroines is dying off. The younger folks who develop our fetish are growing up with an entirely different set of images and influences, and thus the nature of their fetish is different than ours in some ways, and that is why you see the advent of hardcore SHIP.

I agree. Its either dying or morphing into something else.

[Mr. X]

I am been directing and selling films since 2009. I have tons (upon tons) of customer sales data. Hardcore content is NOT preferred by younger audiences. This isn't even my opinion, its a data driven statistic.

I don't like hard core either and I'm way older. The Giga-akiba stuff always devolves into some sex scene which is a turn off for me. I'd rather see some tied up or other action. Heck I'd buy Giga stuff if they just tied up the girls more.

[joejanus]

Non starters for me in superheroine peril are:
Superheroine being taken easily. Honestly, if I wanted to watch a normal woman being raped its easy to find. I need to feel invested in her as a woman of true power, before I can feel that I am watching superheroine peril.

I need enough to the costume to stay on so that at no point are we not aware who is being used.

I need her to be proud. When she yields it should be because of how she is being made to feel, not by being defeated. It is superheroine peril as an erotica, so I need her defeat to be succuming to the sexual degradation, not just losing a fight. Losing a fight is just a Tuesday. You cant fight for a living and not lose. Being tamed, now, that is different!

No death. Honestly, I am trying to get my jollies seeing myself as her. If you maim or kill her then we are back to creepy male violence which is what we all learn to avoid every damned day on this earth. I don't find it sexy, I find it tiring.

I agree with everything you said there VV. Definitely no death although I may leave my heroine in a deadly peril situation where you can imagine either her demise or her rescue/escape. It really ruins the mood if the actress is obviously just waiting for the villain/henchman to sneak up behind her and chloroform her.

Also I want her to be a heroine, not just a naked actress, so the capture has to be realistic and usually a struggle. I love it when she starts to have the upper hand but then loses. Despite my love for sexy bondage pics (Hey, I'm a guy!), I usually need at least a hint of a story.

I love it when she is slowly sexually dominated until her heroic brain is no longer in charge, just her primal lusts.

[PartsUnknown]

The heroine winning is a big no-no for me.

I’ll add that the Catwoman-style full body suits make me lose all interest. I’m a leg and ass man so they have to be showing.

The hardcore stuff isn’t a dealbreaker for me but I don’t usually seek it out. I’m more interested in the peril snd fight scenes.