KAOS (Netflix, 2024)

[shevek]

Based on the ads prominently featuring Jeff Goldblum as the only known star in this series, I decided to check out KAOS even though I was also seeing indications that it was going to be an agenda-driven postmodernized mess.

Turns out both are true: 1) Goldblum is delightful and the portrayal of his extended family of gods does lend the series a certain Wes Anderson "look at this quirky squabbling family" vibe but 2) the concept and the execution is dreadful. I am close to noping out after three episodes because of how nonsensical the setting is and how heavy-handed they make the agenda: Suzy Izzard; Antony & the Johnsons; Hippolyta; The Furies; Theseus and Astyanax etc.

But your mileage may vary, so check it out if you like. As for me, it actually makes me long for the likes of American Gods and Ragnarok (I never saw the 3rd season, and I should probably go back and check it out) and even more so for the days of Wonder Woman and Xena when mythology and superheroics were still tied together as genres, and not everything was reduced to political allegories full of narcissistic shallow characterization.

The basic premise of KAOS is that the Greek Gods still rule the Earth in modern times, but they act like modern humans albeit with godlike powers.
I can find so many basic problems with this premise, such as:

- The West developed advanced science because it abandoned paganism and went for universality and rationality. Would the modern world really have all of these technological achievements without the Abrahamics?

- I find it interesting that the show is about Greek gods but they filmed it entirely in Spain and Italy. Is "Krete" a separate country simply because we need it in the story for King Minos, the labyrinth and the minotaur (not shown by EP3, sorry)? Why are Athens and Sparta sidelined, and why are 'Trojans' the token oppressed people when it wasn't Minos who fought the Trojans, it was the Peleponnesian city states on the mainland.

- Why is everyone greeting each other with 'Vero!" when that is LATIN, and I don't see any Romans anywhere. The word for truth in Greek is Aletheia, it's not any harder to say than 'Beltalowda'.

- I'm disappointed that there's so much humor inherent in this 'modern Olympus' scenario, and yet they make almost NO mention whatsoever of modern Greek culture. Supermarkets full of 'Spartan Crunch', and yet feta and spanakopita and grape leaves and ouzo are nowhere to be found?
No traditional Greek dress, nobody singing Rembetika in a smoky bar, no smashing of plates at a wedding, and no influence of classical Greek architecture in all of the buildings? I actually don't even think there's a single actor in the entire series with Greek heritage! (and believe me, the cast is pretty damn diverse for everyone supposedly being Greek)

- Zeus pretty much wears a tracksuit, sometimes with some Elvis-like lightning-bolt motifs. Do Greeks even wear tracksuits? Isn't it a bit hot for that? I thought that was more of a Slavic thing (like the Tracksuit Mafia in the Hawkeye TV show).

I do actually like the fact that the gods' technology is stuck somewhere the 80s, and they don't seem to have computers or cellphones or pretty much anything that looks like futuristic high-tech. Maybe Japan and Silicon Valley doesn't exist in this limited universe.

Anyway, as I said, this mostly just makes me want to go back to Ragnarok Season 3 with actual Scandinavian culture in it. I might still just watch the last episode of KAOS S1 to see if anything important actually happens.

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[Ernie]

Aww. I wanted to watch this until I found out it was an agenda-driven postmodernized mess and that the completely unique world they created for the show wasn't enough like our world for shevek. Guess I'll have to watch the new Batman animated series instead...wait it's chock full of pesky postmodernism too. Whelp, bring on the Kevin Sorbo flicks.

[Dogfish]

The West developed advanced science because it abandoned paganism and went for universality and rationality. Would the modern world really have all of these technological achievements without the Abrahamics?

Are you shitting me? The Greeks had mechanical computers, weaponised heat beams, flamethrowers, maths, democracy, philosophy, theatre, sculpture, all kinds of stuff. Then the Christians destroyed most of it and set the world back centuries.

And that's even before they spent the rest of history burning scientists.

There is no opposition to science in the Greek pantheon, quite the opposite.

We'd be centuries ahead of where we are now if they weren't so shit at fighting.

[Ernie]

I can't wait for shevek's 11 paragraph response where he subtly changes his initial contention, spills reams of pseudo-intellectual mumbo jumbo and ends with a snarky and condescending put down that he can later claim was completely innocent. Do I have a crystal ball? Nope. Just seen this go down dozens of times before.

[shevek]

The West developed advanced science because it abandoned paganism and went for universality and rationality. Would the modern world really have all of these technological achievements without the Abrahamics?

Are you shitting me? The Greeks had mechanical computers, weaponised heat beams, flamethrowers, maths, democracy, philosophy, theatre, sculpture, all kinds of stuff. Then the Christians destroyed most of it and set the world back centuries.

And that's even before they spent the rest of history burning scientists.

There is no opposition to science in the Greek pantheon, quite the opposite.

We'd be centuries ahead of where we are now if they weren't so shit at fighting.

I'm not backpedaling or shifting goalposts one bit, sorry Ernie buddy.

Yes I know exactly what the Greeks accomplished in ancient times. Greek fire, antikythera, etc. Focusing lenses were actually developed even earlier in Egypt and Babylonia, along with many other things.

I said *technological achievements*, not theoretical science.
The Chinese were ahead of the West in terms of technology until around the Renaissance.
But it was the rediscovery of Greek ideas (preserved by both Irish monks *and Islamic scholars) combined with the wealth and power of European Christian nation-states which allowed the West to finally jump far ahead of everyone else.
That's what I'm talking about. I don't think simply belief in a whimsical Greek/Roman pantheon (or really, any ethno-specific pantheon) could have created the high-tech West alone as we know it.
Ridley Scott solves this problem in the "Raised By Wolves" show by making Roman Mithraism/Sol Invictus close enough to Christianity in doctrine that it seems feasible that the Roman Empire would have developed starship-level science.

Also, the typical geek shill sites aren't enjoying this show, either. Finally, something on which I agree with them!
https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/kaos- ... dly-empty/

[Ernie]

I'm not backpedaling or shifting goalposts one bit, sorry Ernie buddy.

Grin! That's exactly what you did! As for the 11 paragraphs, I'll take credit for this much shorter pseudo-intellectual reply.

[shevek]

I'm not backpedaling or shifting goalposts one bit, sorry Ernie buddy.

Grin! That's exactly what you did! As for the 11 paragraphs, I'll take credit for this much shorter pseudo-intellectual reply.

Nope, it isn't. First of all, both you and Dogfish conveniently ignored almost everything else I said in my critique, save the part about the technology not being possible. I could've called 'cherrypicking', but I didn't.

Second, I simply reiterated what I said initially, I did not backpedal. I said that the high level of science and technology we have today would not have been possible in a world where Greek paganism continued unabated, with no interim period in between for the Abrahamic religions to create a sense of UNIVERSALITY that Green paganism did not have, which allowed the ancient ideas (which were preserved by facets of Christianity and Islam) to re-emerge and to quickly be ELABORATED UPON with more updated technology during the Renaissance and then the Age of Reason. I'll stand by that assessment, and that's the end.

I might also mention that, although it might not be for the same exact reasons as me, there are a lot of media shill sources which are NOT digging this KAOS series and decrying the "Netflixification" of the Greek myths. In any case, I wanted to like this because of Jeff Goldblum but I just could not continue slogging, so I'm out. Next.

[Malice]

Hey ya,

I was also seeing indications that it was going to be an agenda-driven postmodernized mess.

That's pretty much all I needed to know... But who knows, my favorite shows are months away and Jeff Goldblum is a treasure so.

I'll rant in this thread if I'm not happy

Take care!

[jlocke]

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NUQE says: TROLL BAD!

Please stop feeding this troll.

Hit the "!" button on every post that you see politics in and report the post. Engaging with trolls just brings their posts back to the top and they gain visibility. So instead of Sexy Superheroine we get a bunch of political vomit. If you see a Troll leave him be, report him to the Mods and then check out all the other great threads with Sexy Superheroines in them. Also please hit the "Thumbs up" button. Showing the rest of the forum that you like superheroine tits and not political boobs is the best way to fight the trolls.

[Ernie]

Well there we have it. Kaos created a world where ancient Greek Gods still dominate the globe, or at least "Krete." A fun, whimsical, high concept idea to base a limited series on. But quality gatekeeper and anti-postmodernism (read - too woke) warrior shevek pronounced the program unworthy, while magnanimously allowing that some might actually want to watch it anyway. In his usual course of long-winded pseudo-intellectual gibberish, shevek dropped the mind-numbing inanity that the real ancient Greeks, you know, the ones who figured out the world was round and approximated its diameter quite accurately, could never have ushered in the modernity we currently enjoy because...wait for it...they believed in multiple gods! When called on this obvious absurdity by Dogfish, shevek predictably responded with reams more gibberish, leaving the show as a distant memory in defense of one of his crazed criticisms of it.

Is anyone else tired of shevek's pronouncements on every fucking thing? My Gods, can't we talk about heroines?