Relationships and sidekicks...

[Void]

So I'm finally back to writing chapters again for my active stories, and I'm already greedily at the outlining stage for the stories to come after them, and there's a few story elements I keep struggling with quite how to tackle them - or with how to play them. I'm curious what other writers would do with these elements, and what readers would prefer to see of them.

If a heroine is married, or in a serious relationship, do we think that adds to the excitement of a sexual peril scene or would it hurt it with the extra emotional stuff going on here? It's an unfair question, I know, because it depends a little on how real and in-depth the writing goes with depicting the peril and the characters... but this is an area where I'm cautious of making a choice with the intention of adding to the kink of a story but actually hurting it. I guess this ties into the greater issue of how seriously you can tell a peril story before you choke the kink out of it. For my part, I'm intending to write it fairly straight and serious, with characters who love each other, which I guess is why I'm worried about this being too sore an element.

On a related note to this, I'm curious what people's preferences would be on whether the partner in such a story would know about the super hero alter ego of the heroine, or if that whole side of her life would be a secret. If they know about her heroine persona, the next question becomes whether she tells them about any perilous encounters she may have. I think I like the idea of the partner knowing about the heroine alter ego - I worry about the morality and sheer logistics of keeping it a secret for the heroine character - but as for then confiding about perils, that just feels like it would be unappealing material to read or write in this genre. Putting that to one side, I also wonder about if a happy ending for this couple would ring hollow if a lot of sordid peril takes place in the middle of the story/series... Would we prefer to see them work it out, or would we prefer that the relationship breaks down - assuming the heroine gets enough of a happy ending to her story that she is both alive and free from captivity!


As a complete separate question, I'm also curious about sidekicks. I have a lot of questions about what people would like or not here, but for now I'm specifically thinking about the dynamic between heroine and sidekick. Like, Batman and Robin have a bit of a surrogate parent-child thing going on with their dynamic - or a LITERAL parent-child dynamic, depending on the Robin - and I'm curious if that dynamic in a peril story would add to the kink or be a bit gross. In my deviant imagination I think it would be a kinky thing, but it's very much possible I'm too jaded and depraved to see why that might instead be uncomfortable to read. Like, if that dynamic were really dialled up, and it was like a 39 year old heroine and a 19 year old daughter sidekick, what is the gross versus kink factor like to see this duo getting into sexual peril?

My knee jerk is it's somehow too much for them to be actual mother and daughter, but it might be good as surrogate parent and ward? This is one where, I think, I would dial up the camp factor a little to diminish the emotional impact of peril.

[hpibd]

Interesting points. I think a huge age gap between characters can be a thin line to walk, so you'd have to take extra care in writing it so it doesn't become awkward.

Also, in parent-child relationship, I wonder what the dinner table discussions are like when both heroines made it out of torture. Like, what's it like seeing your protector break down and succumb to situations they are supposed to protect you from?

This dynamic does open the door for mind-control stories and other kinks though. What if one member of the duo is pressured into harming the other one, being tricked or controlled? Could a (romantic) relationship recover from such betrayal?

I'm very curious about you'll cook up, so the best of luck!

[Malice]

So I'm finally back to writing chapters again for my active stories, and I'm already greedily at the outlining stage for the stories to come after them, and there's a few story elements I keep struggling with quite how to tackle them - or with how to play them. I'm curious what other writers would do with these elements, and what readers would prefer to see of them.

If a heroine is married, or in a serious relationship, do we think that adds to the excitement of a sexual peril scene or would it hurt it with the extra emotional stuff going on here? It's an unfair question, I know, because it depends a little on how real and in-depth the writing goes with depicting the peril and the characters... but this is an area where I'm cautious of making a choice with the intention of adding to the kink of a story but actually hurting it. I guess this ties into the greater issue of how seriously you can tell a peril story before you choke the kink out of it. For my part, I'm intending to write it fairly straight and serious, with characters who love each other, which I guess is why I'm worried about this being too sore an element.

On a related note to this, I'm curious what people's preferences would be on whether the partner in such a story would know about the super hero alter ego of the heroine, or if that whole side of her life would be a secret. If they know about her heroine persona, the next question becomes whether she tells them about any perilous encounters she may have. I think I like the idea of the partner knowing about the heroine alter ego - I worry about the morality and sheer logistics of keeping it a secret for the heroine character - but as for then confiding about perils, that just feels like it would be unappealing material to read or write in this genre. Putting that to one side, I also wonder about if a happy ending for this couple would ring hollow if a lot of sordid peril takes place in the middle of the story/series... Would we prefer to see them work it out, or would we prefer that the relationship breaks down - assuming the heroine gets enough of a happy ending to her story that she is both alive and free from captivity!


As a complete separate question, I'm also curious about sidekicks. I have a lot of questions about what people would like or not here, but for now I'm specifically thinking about the dynamic between heroine and sidekick. Like, Batman and Robin have a bit of a surrogate parent-child thing going on with their dynamic - or a LITERAL parent-child dynamic, depending on the Robin - and I'm curious if that dynamic in a peril story would add to the kink or be a bit gross. In my deviant imagination I think it would be a kinky thing, but it's very much possible I'm too jaded and depraved to see why that might instead be uncomfortable to read. Like, if that dynamic were really dialled up, and it was like a 39 year old heroine and a 19 year old daughter sidekick, what is the gross versus kink factor like to see this duo getting into sexual peril?

My knee jerk is it's somehow too much for them to be actual mother and daughter, but it might be good as surrogate parent and ward? This is one where, I think, I would dial up the camp factor a little to diminish the emotional impact of peril.

Hey ya,

To me the key thing is whether the character actually adds something meaningful to the story or the stakes.

If the heroine’s partner not knowing her identity builds tension that pays off, like a villain revealing it at the worst possible moment, that’s a great narrative tool.

But if it’s just there for the sake of it, it can feel forced or out of place.

Same goes for sidekicks in my opinion.

[Void]

Yeah, a big part of why both sides of this holds some appeal to me is precisely because it allows the affects of a peril scene to continue out into the heroine's personal civilian life - either for a woman in a relationship/marriage, or for a parent-daughter/surrogate-ward duo - as well as perhaps making the peril moments hit harder, or in novel ways, when they arrive. Of course, all this extra impact might be too much, and might be a negative to the fantasy this would be intended as.

I've had some feedback before from people that wanted to see more of a heroine's life away from being a hero, and that is so much easier to show if they have another character to play off of at home. Sure, there's a few ways to do that, like showing them at work, but in terms of intimately seeing them in their home life, these seem pretty attractive.

With a duo, just in general I think there's a lot of fun ground to break with two heroines in a scene - just with two separate characters joining up for a one-off adventure , or two - but definitely there's something that activates my fetish brain about a senior-junior duo... hpibd I think is putting his finger on or near it with the thing about the junior character seeing their mentor succumb to the kind of thing that they would normally protect them from. With a literal mother-daughter duo I suspect there would be too much of an 'ick' factor, or too much emotional baggage for that to be a goer - not to mention Amazon would definitely hate it! But a duo of a young sidekick and a mature mentor, possibly with a vaguely parental vibe, could still be a goer. It may need a campier tone to sell it, but I'm down with exploring a campier tone.

The marriage/relationship question affects a character I'm writing now, but I've got like five stories to chew through before I can take a real look at a story about a duo, but I'm definitely interested in going there in some capacity when I get the chance...

[sneakly]

Something I noticed about writing with a lot of peripheral characters, the more characters you add, the larger the writing commitment you make. If you add a sidekick, they need to serve a purpose to the story and need to be fleshed out to make them interesting. I've been reading some of the Game of Thrones books. they are bloody long because they have so freaking many characters in them.

A heroine and sidekick relationship has to be interesting as well, that means they have to have a dynamic that is entertaining and part of the story. I have found having them "meet cute" and develop a relationship over the course of the story is probably the easiest to write. As a writer, you get to figure out the relationship between the characters as they do. An example from one of my stories would be Batgirl meeting her "Robyn" in the Pirate Princess story. Having two characters that have been in a long term relationship, is not my cup of tea in a BDSM adventure story. I am much more of the girl in every port style. James Bond gets a new squeeze in every story, readers get something fresh.

The death knell to most TV shows is when the sexual tension between the leads is broken and they marry. Steve Trevor can never bang WW, Wrangler Jane can never marry Wilton Parmeter. When they do, it is down hill to cancellation. 99 should never have married Max Smart, Jeanie shouldn't have married her master.

Another thought is that the relationship between the heroine and the villain is part of what a bondage story is about. I will never include Peter Perfect in a Penelope Pitstop story, because the story is about the sexual dynamic between her and the Hooded Claw

Things like mother-daughter duos are kind of a niche thing, especially in a story heavy on the sexual content. You may also attract unwanted attention posting stories of that nature in some forums (DA?). Not really my thing in general, so I would probably take a pass on a story like that.

Of course, rules are meant to be broken and everything I just mentioned can be violated and be a great story. Ultimately, you have to enjoy writing it or there is no point. I try to write my stories because they are what I would like to find and read.

[Void]

The point about more characters ballooning the writing commitment is spot on - and it must be said it does complicate outlining if there is more than one heroine to track and give action to in a fight/peril sequence. I normally prefer these scenes to really zero in on the plight of a single character and their experiences. You do, however, gain the novelty of a second character who can have interesting peril in the same story - like, the story could include more peril content and have a higher chance of it staying novel because it isn't the same character walking into rakes.

The more I think about it the more I think a literal mother-daughter duo would be a can of worms. Can't deny it still kindles something in me, kinkwise, but I think virtually all the same kindling can come from a more classic duo of mentor and sidekick without so much worms. I'm less worried about establishing their relationship and all that - getting people up to speed with that is no different than establishing the setting and characters in any story.

With the relationship stuff... I suppose I'm coming at this exclusively from the position of it being a peril story playing out as a titillating fantasy. If the character was hooking up and having romantic relationships with new suiters each story then that seems way beter if they are just single, but I wonder if being in a relationship adds to the... man, I am struggling to reach for the word I want here... spice? The forbidden, shameful drama of the heroine's peril. I guess I also wonder if tapping into the NTR kink could be a welcome element - though I get the impression as many people really hate this material as like it. Then again, maybe it overcooks the whole thing, and throws too much drama/impact into what is happening.

I take the point about writing what you want to read. I guess my issue is I would read it all, but I only have so much time to write and I'm wary of putting time into something that wouldn't land with people.

[Malice]

Something I noticed about writing with a lot of peripheral characters, the more characters you add, the larger the writing commitment you make. If you add a sidekick, they need to serve a purpose to the story and need to be fleshed out to make them interesting. I've been reading some of the Game of Thrones books. they are bloody long because they have so freaking many characters in them.

A heroine and sidekick relationship has to be interesting as well, that means they have to have a dynamic that is entertaining and part of the story. I have found having them "meet cute" and develop a relationship over the course of the story is probably the easiest to write. As a writer, you get to figure out the relationship between the characters as they do. An example from one of my stories would be Batgirl meeting her "Robyn" in the Pirate Princess story. Having two characters that have been in a long term relationship, is not my cup of tea in a BDSM adventure story. I am much more of the girl in every port style. James Bond gets a new squeeze in every story, readers get something fresh.

The death knell to most TV shows is when the sexual tension between the leads is broken and they marry. Steve Trevor can never bang WW, Wrangler Jane can never marry Wilton Parmeter. When they do, it is down hill to cancellation. 99 should never have married Max Smart, Jeanie shouldn't have married her master.

Another thought is that the relationship between the heroine and the villain is part of what a bondage story is about. I will never include Peter Perfect in a Penelope Pitstop story, because the story is about the sexual dynamic between her and the Hooded Claw

Things like mother-daughter duos are kind of a niche thing, especially in a story heavy on the sexual content. You may also attract unwanted attention posting stories of that nature in some forums (DA?). Not really my thing in general, so I would probably take a pass on a story like that.

Of course, rules are meant to be broken and everything I just mentioned can be violated and be a great story. Ultimately, you have to enjoy writing it or there is no point. I try to write my stories because they are what I would like to find and read.

100%.

The more characters there are, the more writing it takes, and one of my biggest challenges with the SHIP genre is keeping a draft engaging for readers.

That’s where the most grueling part of the craft kicks in. I call it killing my babies. Trimming, tweaking... I often spend more time cutting chunks of a story than actually progressing on it.

At the end of the day, what matters most to me is giving readers the best possible experience and, if possible, respecting their time. I also try to respect their intelligence by not overwriting and removing anything that might hinder a smooth, enjoyable read.

At the same time, I enjoy all kinds of stories, but I find that in this genre, you never really know what to expect. If you're going for something epic, like a GoT-style narrative with a huge cast, it helps to be upfront with the audience about what the story contains.

My first story on the site was sort of a gonzo SHIP story, something that could have come out of a studio like CC Production. I'm currently working on revamping its presentation and I'm looking for a good way to advertise the key elements readers can expect.

You'll love the WordPress interface. It’s super sleek and lets you preview the estimated read time, making it easier to provide all the necessary info upfront.

Once again, I’d say write a story that works for you and that you enjoy writing. If the premise is engaging from the start, you’ll keep me hooked till the end, no matter how long or dense the story is.

[IMSancho]

Something I noticed about writing with a lot of peripheral characters, the more characters you add, the larger the writing commitment you make. If you add a sidekick, they need to serve a purpose to the story and need to be fleshed out to make them interesting. I've been reading some of the Game of Thrones books. they are bloody long because they have so freaking many characters in them.

A heroine and sidekick relationship has to be interesting as well, that means they have to have a dynamic that is entertaining and part of the story. I have found having them "meet cute" and develop a relationship over the course of the story is probably the easiest to write. As a writer, you get to figure out the relationship between the characters as they do. An example from one of my stories would be Batgirl meeting her "Robyn" in the Pirate Princess story. Having two characters that have been in a long term relationship, is not my cup of tea in a BDSM adventure story. I am much more of the girl in every port style. James Bond gets a new squeeze in every story, readers get something fresh.

The death knell to most TV shows is when the sexual tension between the leads is broken and they marry. Steve Trevor can never bang WW, Wrangler Jane can never marry Wilton Parmeter. When they do, it is down hill to cancellation. 99 should never have married Max Smart, Jeanie shouldn't have married her master.

Another thought is that the relationship between the heroine and the villain is part of what a bondage story is about. I will never include Peter Perfect in a Penelope Pitstop story, because the story is about the sexual dynamic between her and the Hooded Claw

Things like mother-daughter duos are kind of a niche thing, especially in a story heavy on the sexual content. You may also attract unwanted attention posting stories of that nature in some forums (DA?). Not really my thing in general, so I would probably take a pass on a story like that.

Of course, rules are meant to be broken and everything I just mentioned can be violated and be a great story. Ultimately, you have to enjoy writing it or there is no point. I try to write my stories because they are what I would like to find and read.

Aside from Dyna Girl, the Robin in your Pirate Princess story was my favorite sidekick. Cute, spunky, enthusiastic and although a newbie somehow better at the whole crime fighting thing than the way more experienced Batgirl.

I really hope she makes an appearance in some if your future stories.

[merkin1964]

This is a super (pardon the pun?) interesting question, Void. Thanks for bringing it up. I agree with all the points made so far and it's been fascinating reading everyone's perspective, especially coming from such experienced storytellers in this genre.

A big appeal for me to this fetish is the drama of it. I'm always trying to linger on the emotion and drama of a situation when I write stories and customs. Yes, I love the peril and predicaments too but the context of them is just as important for me. Anything that enhances the drama I think is a good thing. The stronger the bond between a heroine and her sidekick, the more emotion that can be mined. I agree that mother-daughter can possibly be too intense or a turn-off for us but a big sister-little sister dynamic (or, nowadays, "big step-sister, little step-sister"!) like the Lynda Carter-Debra Winger dynamic in the old TV show works well. Or the "senior heroine-youthful ward" dynamic is good too. Or mentor-mentee.

I love the ideas pointed out here that it's essentially a protector-protectee dynamic that works best. The drama can be great both ways. If the protector gets into peril then it can be more dramatic for the youthful protectee because it's alarming seeing her mentor like that. Not to mention that if the villains can capture someone stronger and cleverer than she is, what chance does she have against them? It can also work the other way where if the younger protectee gets into peril, it's harrowing for the older protector. She feels guilty because she failed in her mission and now has to watch her ward (or whatever) suffer. And there can also be a sense of betrayal felt from the younger heroine side where she can feel, "You promised to protect me from this!" There's a story I've been tinkering with that has that dynamic at work.

Keep the comments coming! And I can't wait to read the stories that come out of this!

[arkane]

If a heroine is married, or in a serious relationship, do we think that adds to the excitement of a sexual peril scene or would it hurt it with the extra emotional stuff going on here? It's an unfair question, I know, because it depends a little on how real and in-depth the writing goes with depicting the peril and the characters... but this is an area where I'm cautious of making a choice with the intention of adding to the kink of a story but actually hurting it. I guess this ties into the greater issue of how seriously you can tell a peril story before you choke the kink out of it. For my part, I'm intending to write it fairly straight and serious, with characters who love each other, which I guess is why I'm worried about this being too sore an element.

The married heroine could be protecting her husband from the knowledge of some of the worst things happening to her. But maybe he wants to know everything, being worried and or having a morbid interest in his wife's perils (that he can't avoid anyway). This could be a problem for the couple but also a source of a stimulating tension.

As a complete separate question, I'm also curious about sidekicks. I have a lot of questions about what people would like or not here, but for now I'm specifically thinking about the dynamic between heroine and sidekick.

In my opinion, a sidekick, assuming he/she has superpowers or great skills, is not incompetent or useless. No need for an extreme difference of competence. The sidekick just needs to gain some experience. So, the partnership is like that between comrades or warriors, one more expert than the other. Both should feel a sense of responsibility for the safety and survival of the other. When in less threatening situations, they could find funny moments to share and have a laugh about, when one of them (usually the more experienced one) finds and sets free the other from a trap or skillful bondage, or when the boss makes a mistake, and the rookie has to save her.

[sneakly]

The point about more characters ballooning the writing commitment is spot on - and it must be said it does complicate outlining if there is more than one heroine to track and give action to in a fight/peril sequence. I normally prefer these scenes to really zero in on the plight of a single character and their experiences. You do, however, gain the novelty of a second character who can have interesting peril in the same story - like, the story could include more peril content and have a higher chance of it staying novel because it isn't the same character walking into rakes.

The more I think about it the more I think a literal mother-daughter duo would be a can of worms. Can't deny it still kindles something in me, kinkwise, but I think virtually all the same kindling can come from a more classic duo of mentor and sidekick without so much worms. I'm less worried about establishing their relationship and all that - getting people up to speed with that is no different than establishing the setting and characters in any story.

With the relationship stuff... I suppose I'm coming at this exclusively from the position of it being a peril story playing out as a titillating fantasy. If the character was hooking up and having romantic relationships with new suiters each story then that seems way beter if they are just single, but I wonder if being in a relationship adds to the... man, I am struggling to reach for the word I want here... spice? The forbidden, shameful drama of the heroine's peril. I guess I also wonder if tapping into the NTR kink could be a welcome element - though I get the impression as many people really hate this material as like it. Then again, maybe it overcooks the whole thing, and throws too much drama/impact into what is happening.

I take the point about writing what you want to read. I guess my issue is I would read it all, but I only have so much time to write and I'm wary of putting time into something that wouldn't land with people.

To me, an important aspect in writing these types of stories is who the relationship is with. These stories (in my reading) are about relationships. The primary relationship is going to be between protagonist and the antagonist. The perils are a metaphor for sex. Catwoman in the Perils of Batgirl story is infatuated with Batgirl and Batgirl keeps going back for more. If the conflict weren't sexual, they would just pull out a gun. I always write based on making the dynamic between the heroine and the villain a quasi-sexual relationship, just a really, really unhealthy one. Everyone is attracted to the hot chick, especially the crazy ones.

Nora Clavicle, Lady Prudence, Catwoman, Lotus, Olga.... They all want to fuck Batgirl. The Hooded Claw wants to fuck Penelope Pitstop and Penelope is into it. The heroines are just as turned on as the villains. Penelope cums just as hard as Sneakly does. Crime fighting is just a pretense for unsavory sexual behavior. All the villains are sociopaths looking for sexual gratification and the heroines are adrenaline junkies looking for a high.

[Void]

@ Merkin

I'm totally with you on being interested in the drama, and just generally on the personal impact for the character, going on in these stories - and I agree having interesting dynamics like these would add another layer to all that stuff. I actually hadn't considered a duo of siblings (or step siblings) but that would also be a compelling story to see, in my opinion. There's so many ways the fall out for peril scenes with these characters could be more interesting than the peril scenes themselves, and you hint at a few of them. I will keep an eye out for the story you mentioned!

@Arkane

Absolutely. What you describe about the heroine keeping the worst details back and it being a building source of tension for them is exactly the kind of sweet spot where I think it could make for a really compelling story element. Depending how it's told, it could be an overly sore storyline that takes away from the fantasy, but the more I think about it the more I want to explore that story.

I also certainly agree that in a duo the less experienced heroine should still be very competent - just less experienced, and perhaps more prone to overconfidence. Another modifier here would be what powers, or not, they have. The sidekick having greater potential could be interesting, like they are the more central character and their more experienced partner is the mentor.


@Sneakly
I'm really interested in this - the subject of the relationship with the villains in the story, and what the heroine/villain dynamics are like, is something I also put a lot of significance on. I wouldn't go as far as to say the main thing going on is that relationship, for me, but it is a massive feature of the story - I think if I had to boil my main interest down to one thing then it would be something like the power struggle of the peril, and its impact upon the heroine as it is happening.

But yeah, there's definitely some unspoken rule or attraction going on in the subtext of all my stories. Like, the villains really want the heroine, they desire her, or to have power over her, in a really primal way that goes beyond wanting to destroy her - and goes more towards wanting to possess her or destroy what she represents, or destroy her resistance. For the heroines there is this underlying sense that they have this fatal attraction to the peril, to giving up control, to allowing themselves to be weak or vulnerable, to let go and indulge in the sordid ploys of her villains - but this is always at odds with her sense of duty or self control. But yeah, I think there's always this sense that a part of her wants to give it up just as much as the villain wants to take it, so to speak. They both have this dance where they won't destroy each other, but rather are trying to take power over the other.

[batgirl1969]

The point about more characters ballooning the writing commitment is spot on - and it must be said it does complicate outlining if there is more than one heroine to track and give action to in a fight/peril sequence. I normally prefer these scenes to really zero in on the plight of a single character and their experiences. You do, however, gain the novelty of a second character who can have interesting peril in the same story - like, the story could include more peril content and have a higher chance of it staying novel because it isn't the same character walking into rakes.

The more I think about it the more I think a literal mother-daughter duo would be a can of worms. Can't deny it still kindles something in me, kinkwise, but I think virtually all the same kindling can come from a more classic duo of mentor and sidekick without so much worms. I'm less worried about establishing their relationship and all that - getting people up to speed with that is no different than establishing the setting and characters in any story.

With the relationship stuff... I suppose I'm coming at this exclusively from the position of it being a peril story playing out as a titillating fantasy. If the character was hooking up and having romantic relationships with new suiters each story then that seems way beter if they are just single, but I wonder if being in a relationship adds to the... man, I am struggling to reach for the word I want here... spice? The forbidden, shameful drama of the heroine's peril. I guess I also wonder if tapping into the NTR kink could be a welcome element - though I get the impression as many people really hate this material as like it. Then again, maybe it overcooks the whole thing, and throws too much drama/impact into what is happening.

I take the point about writing what you want to read. I guess my issue is I would read it all, but I only have so much time to write and I'm wary of putting time into something that wouldn't land with people.

To me, an important aspect in writing these types of stories is who the relationship is with. These stories (in my reading) are about relationships. The primary relationship is going to be between protagonist and the antagonist. The perils are a metaphor for sex. Catwoman in the Perils of Batgirl story is infatuated with Batgirl and Batgirl keeps going back for more. If the conflict weren't sexual, they would just pull out a gun. I always write based on making the dynamic between the heroine and the villain a quasi-sexual relationship, just a really, really unhealthy one. Everyone is attracted to the hot chick, especially the crazy ones.

Nora Clavicle, Lady Prudence, Catwoman, Lotus, Olga.... They all want to fuck Batgirl. The Hooded Claw wants to fuck Penelope Pitstop and Penelope is into it. The heroines are just as turned on as the villains. Penelope cums just as hard as Sneakly does. Crime fighting is just a pretense for unsavory sexual behavior. All the villains are sociopaths looking for sexual gratification and the heroines are adrenaline junkies looking for a high.

You Sir, nailed this on the head purrrrrrfectly!!