Thunderbolts

[Mr. X]

Anyone excited for this movie? One thing that is a red flag for me is not seeing the bad guy (which I hope is not Bob). No idea who they are fighting. Just action/comedy stuff.

Plus too much overlap. How many super soldier people do you need on a team. Or super fighter types. Task master and Elaina are pretty much the same.

[cannonfodder]

I'm interested only because I'm a fan of the series pre Dark Avengers and was interested in the Bucky run but it's hard to get into comics since they can't ever be self-contained anymore.

[Mr. X]

Captain America - Whatever the subtitle is, would probably be a waste since any Hulk fight scene will just be on you tube.

[Lurkndog]

I want to watch it just because of the cast.

I'm hoping Bucky and Yelena get a lot more lines than they did in the trailers, maybe even some scenes.

No idea if they will land the third reel or not.

[Dogfish]

Okay this trailer slaps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqnRzjPfb5A

By this point the film is already in the can so whether it's good or bad can't change, but in terms of how they are promoting it, this is a big change from the norm of Disney. Perhaps a recognition that the Marvel franchise is maturing.

[shevek]

Not sure I'm quite the target audience for this, but nonetheless, the trailer was put together like this is a movie by A24.
The fast that the phrase "absolute cinema" is in the trailer title is hilarious. So it's a superhero action comedy with some hip electronica vibes
but no Moonstone.

[Mr. X]

My guess is its the void they have to fight. But given we have not seen any real antagonist is always a red flag.

[VegaTaxeca]

This is a movie I am looking forward to. I loved Black Widow and the characters in it. Since I also liked Ghost in Antman and the Wasp, this seems to be a great team-up. As I know I will watch this in the cinema, I won't bother with any trailers to avoid spoilers.

[Lurkndog]

I'm seeing positive word of mouth online about Thunderbolts, now that the preview viewings have happened.

It sounds like they managed to do a good job with the movie and land the third reel.

I'm definitely going to have to see this one in theaters.

[shevek]

My guess is its the void they have to fight. But given we have not seen any real antagonist is always a red flag.

It's Sentry they are going to fight. Or more accurately, Dark Sentry, if you're referring to his control of The Void. Also known as "Bob".
He's actually not even alive in the comics anymore - he was killed in last year's King in Black series.

[Mr. X]

Just saw the movie. Its fantastic. AAA+. One of the best MCU movies in a long time.

[VegaTaxeca]

I have seen it as well. I agree that it was very good. Best character was Yelena, imho, though I might have loved her even more in Black Widow. But that I guess was because there she was paired with Natasha. Those two had the best chemistry together that I have ever seen in a superhero movie. Still, she was great in Thunderbolts* as well. Overall a very funny movie.

There were only two things I did not like. I will put them in spoiler tgas, though.

Spoiler

1. The way Taskmaster was killed so early with almost no reference afterwood, just an extremly short dialogue scene.
2. The Void's shadow powers taking people reminded me too much of the snap by Thanos, especially visually, but also in general. That lessened the impact for me.

[Mr. X]

Walker is a compelling character. He isn't evil or driven mad with power.

[Lurkndog]

I have seen it as well. I agree that it was very good. Best character was Yelena, imho, though I might have loved her even more in Black Widow. But that I guess was because there she was paired with Natasha. Those two had the best chemistry together that I have ever seen in a superhero movie. Still, she was great in Thunderbolts* as well. Overall a very funny movie.

Did you see her extended cameo in the Hawkeye streaming series? She and Hailee Steinfeld were great together, IMHO even better than Natasha/Yelena.

[VegaTaxeca]

I have seen it as well. I agree that it was very good. Best character was Yelena, imho, though I might have loved her even more in Black Widow. But that I guess was because there she was paired with Natasha. Those two had the best chemistry together that I have ever seen in a superhero movie. Still, she was great in Thunderbolts* as well. Overall a very funny movie.

Did you see her extended cameo in the Hawkeye streaming series? She and Hailee Steinfeld were great together, IMHO even better than Natasha/Yelena.

No, I haven't seen any of the Marvel series as I do not stream.

[Dogfish]

I think it's on Youtube. Worth checking out on there just because it's funny, even without the context of the rest of the show.

[bushwackerbob]

When I went to see "sinners", I saw the trailer for "Thunderbolts". It seems like a fun movie, but the trailer didn't make me want to see it so badly that I would go to the theatre to see it. I will probably check it out when it reaches the streamers.

[Lurkndog]

Thunderbolts had a $76 M opening weekend. Less than Captain America: Brave New World at $88 M, but Thunderbolts was in a much more competitive part of the year.

Thunderbolts is expected to hold strong into next weekend, with no major new competition.

Word of mouth seems to be much better than it was for Brave New World.

[Lurkndog]

No, I haven't seen any of the Marvel series as I do not stream.

Hawkeye is out on Blu-ray FWIW, though it's an expensive premium steelbook.

I'm planning to buy it, but at nearly $50 I would probably hesitate to buy it unseen.

[VegaTaxeca]

Thank you for that information. I was not aware any Disney series was still available on DVD/BluRay. But okay, I probably won't buy the steelbook at that price, but it's at least good to know there is this option.

[Lurkndog]

Disney has been putting a bunch of their better series out on Blu-ray in steelbooks. Mandalorian Seasons 1, 2 and 3, Hawkeye, Ahsoka, most of their recent A-list Disney/Pixar movies.

[shevek]

So I watched the first 1 hour and 32 minutes of this - it cut off shortly after Sentry becomes The Void.

But I didn't really need to see the rest. I understand why people might enjoy the movie (the characters, the fight matchups, the quips).

However, it's not really my thing, and here's why:

Spoiler

- No characters with really major superpowers (except Bob). That's not a superhero movie, it's a martial arts movie.
- The climax is reasoning with the villain instead of fighting him. That's not a superhero movie, it's a therapy session.
- I don't care about the theme of 'mental health'. Put that in some other movie which doesn't have superheroes.
- Val deFontaine is a terrible character, and Julia Dreyfuss is therefore useless and takes up a lot of screen time I don't want to see.
(And I'm saying this as a Seinfeld fan who, however, never watched Veep.) Characters like her worked much better in The Boys and Invincible.
- Florence Pugh is super short and always looks like she's going to be blown away by her foes, it's hard to believe someone that small
continuously triumphs over mobs of enemies.
- No sexy females in tight costumes. Nary a one. Nor do I see any coming in the future for Marvel. And yet DC still quite regularly squeezes hotness into spandex. It's a shame.
- Thunderbolts are not The New Avengers in the comics. But they are going to become the New Avengers in subsequent films. So we'll have to watch this same bunch of sad sacks with no significant powers try to save the day.

I'm out. Probably done with Marvel live action period. I don't see anything coming up which would change my mind, especially after this Daredevil series as well. Whereas, you know, if there was a Green Lantern TV show, or a Supergirl movie, I'd most definitely at least give it a serious try.

That's just my two cents. You can feel totally differently and still live on Planet Earth, and we can break bread together or whatever.

[Mr. X]

So I watched the first 1 hour and 32 minutes of this - it cut off shortly after Sentry becomes The Void.

But I didn't really need to see the rest. I understand why people might enjoy the movie (the characters, the fight matchups, the quips).

However, it's not really my thing, and here's why:

I agree with a lot of your points. I would take back my AAA rating and make it a B plus. I was entertained but that's about it. Its like when you want an Ironman Action figure for xmas but your parents buy a Metalman action figure from the dollar store.

They even say in the movie they are all punchy shooty people.

Notice they have no issue with some gratuitous Bob shirtless and tight costume scenes and some Bucky fan service but we get Ghost and dollar store Black Widow.

This should have been some streaming thing.

[Lurkndog]

Spoiler

- No characters with really major superpowers (except Bob). That's not a superhero movie, it's a martial arts movie.

Respectfully disagree. They're mostly super-soldiers, which are definitely superheroes. And Ghost definitely has powers.

- Florence Pugh is super short and always looks like she's going to be blown away by her foes, it's hard to believe someone that small
continuously triumphs over mobs of enemies.

I really like Florence Pugh.

- No sexy females in tight costumes. Nary a one. Nor do I see any coming in the future for Marvel. And yet DC still quite regularly squeezes hotness into spandex. It's a shame.

Hannah Kamen-Jones is hawt, and her costume is fairly form-fitting. You've already said you don't like Florence Pugh.

- Thunderbolts are not The New Avengers in the comics. But they are going to become the New Avengers in subsequent films. So we'll have to watch this same bunch of sad sacks with no significant powers try to save the day.

The original Thunderbolts team was a supervillain group led by Baron Zemo, who posed as heroes and stepped in for the Avengers when that team was offworld. But they also had more super-powered chaacters on their team.

Anyway, now we know what that dumb asterisk was for.

That's just my two cents. You can feel totally differently and still live on Planet Earth, and we can break bread together or whatever.

Yup, have a good day!

[shevek]

Hannah Kamen-Jones is hawt, and her costume is fairly form-fitting. You've already said you don't like Florence Pugh.

Yup, have a good day!

Oh yes, Hannah is naturally hot.
She was originally going to be the black Red Sonja, remember? (Until Matilda got the part instead).
Had to be a knockout beauty to even be considered for a sexy barbarian role.

But she's deliberately made to be not hot as Ghost, not just in Thunderbolts, but also in Ant-Man 2.

In AntMan 2, her suit is form-fitting just a bit around her ass and nowhere else. Other than that, it's padded armor. And the mask is ugly. Looks like a friggin Tusken Raider.

In Thunderbolts, it's even worse. The whole suit is clunky, and the mask is formless, indicating that you're not really supposed to think of her as female at all, except when she takes off the mask, at which point her lovely face is dampened by the makeup choices.

This is what a sexy Hannah looks like (from the TV show Killjoys). This costume is form-fitting and draws the eye.
This how sexy superheroine costumes looked in the 90s and through much of the 00s.

hannah john kamen hot.jpg (45.14 KiB) Viewed 43819 times

This is how to make her not sexy. This costume repels the eye. The mask is meant to utterly erase gender.

ghost1.jpg (23.5 KiB) Viewed 43819 times

Also, as usual, the color scheme in these Marvel films is dark and dreary.
Blue looks like black. Red looks like brown. White looks like gray.
That's not the case with most DC films, where the colors pop a lot more. The costumes in Titans, Flash and Supergirl were form-fitting.

You have an excellent day, as well!

[Mr. X]

Spoiler

Don't they even make a comment about her suit in the elevator shaft scene where I think Walker was asking who has the boney ass and she said she has armor there.

[shevek]

Spoiler

Don't they even make a comment about her suit in the elevator shaft scene where I think Walker was asking who has the boney ass and she said she has armor there.

Oh, and don't even get me started on that boring, arduous

Spoiler

eight-legged climb when two of them had NO powers at the time.

That ate up so much time unnecessarily and was highly uneventful.
I'm even wondering if they made it up because they wrote themselves into a corner: how to escape out of a deep hole in the ground when you took an elevator to get down there, but the elevator is no longer operational.

Real Avengers? Hulk, Thor, Iron Man or Carol Danvers could all easily smash or blast or leap or fly their way out of that hole. That's exactly what I mean by the weak sauce this New Avengers stuff is going to be. Ah well.

[Mr. X]

Yes that was a very boring part.
Here's how I think they could have made the plot better:

Spoiler

1. Bad woman is under review
2. She panics and needs to show she meant well so she decides to unpack Bob and get him ready for show. Scientists warn her the reason Bob was frozen was cause he had issues. She ignores that thinking she can work the kinks out later.
3. Bob is OK during the reveal to congress but then goes Void.
4. Thunderbolts gather up to take on Void.

I still was entertained by the movie so it wasn't a dud for me.

BTW where IS Carol Danvers? They pumped her up as some new icon for the MCU then they never use her. SHE was supposed to be the new superman.

[shevek]

Yes that was a very boring part.
Here's how I think they could have made the plot better:

Spoiler

1. Bad woman is under review
2. She panics and needs to show she meant well so she decides to unpack Bob and get him ready for show. Scientists warn her the reason Bob was frozen was cause he had issues. She ignores that thinking she can work the kinks out later.
3. Bob is OK during the reveal to congress but then goes Void.
4. Thunderbolts gather up to take on Void.

I still was entertained by the movie so it wasn't a dud for me.

BTW where IS Carol Danvers? They pumped her up as some new icon for the MCU then they never use her. SHE was supposed to be the new superman.

Heh. Your plot revision idea sounds a lot like when Victoria Neuman made heads explode at that Congressional hearing in The Boys.
But sure!

[Lurkndog]

BTW where IS Carol Danvers? They pumped her up as some new icon for the MCU then they never use her. SHE was supposed to be the new superman.

She's in catering with the other Ms. Marvels after their sequel bombed.

[Lurkndog]

I finally got out to the theater today to see Thunderbolts at the very end of its theatrical run. (My plan for Juneteenth going forward is to catch a movie and get Chinese food.)

I liked it, but it's not at the tippy-top tier of Marvel movies. Below Avengers and Infinity War, but way better than Age of Ultron and Ant-Man3: Cassie is a Terrorist.

Florence Pugh and Sebastian Stan were great, although Bucky really needed someone he could talk to, he spent way too much time silently brooding. David Harbour did a good job, but spent most of the movie on comedy relief duty.

It's too bad the movie wasn't more financially successful. Domestic box office is at $188 million, more than it cost to make, but figuring in publicity and overseas it seems to have barely broken even.

Oh, and the Fantastic Four's spaceship appears in the mid-credit sequence.

See you all in the next thread!