Is this the new Supergirl?

[shevek]

My prediction? I think, unforunately that yes, we might have just seen the best parts, and yes, that the costume will hardly be in the movie until the very end.

Also, that Lobo will be the most memorable (memed) character in the film, much like Groot, Drax and Rocket were in GOTG.

My third observation? Mister Gunn, stop using 'rock and roll' to describe things which are realistic, gritty, violent, and irreverent.
'Rock and roll' is none of those things in 2025, and the use of it just sounds very Steve Buscemi on 30 Rock.
I would say look up some terms in the Urban Dictionary instead, and connect better with zoomers, who will be a major demographic you 'll need to make this film successful.

[Mr. X]

Someone pointed out it looks like the plot of Guardians of the Galaxy. Given the superman movie was pretty mediocre I'm gonna pass on this. Probably zero fetish stuff in it. Now the Flash Supergirl was actually interesting in a way.

[Lurkndog]

The trailer reminds me of Tank Girl (1995). The whole punk rock in space aesthetic.

I haven't seen Tank Girl since the 90's, but I remember it basically wearing out its premise halfway through the movie.

Hopefully Supergirl will be a better movie.

[Femina]

Someone pointed out it looks like the plot of Guardians of the Galaxy. Given the superman movie was pretty mediocre I'm gonna pass on this. Probably zero fetish stuff in it. Now the Flash Supergirl was actually interesting in a way.

I just don't get this mindset. It's like people on this forum think fetish stuff in a film will somehow make it successful and wouldn't be detrimental to the films likelihood to inspire sequels and grow superheroine popularity? Like, you all KNOW how to watch a movie WITHOUT being titillated. I know you do... but where it comes to Superheroines you're all like 'Titillation or nothing!!!'

It's a real headscratcher the way this forum behaves towards stuff like this. It's like everyone's wall between fantasy and reality is breaking down and they forget how the things that brought them to the fetish in the first place weren't titillating them 24/7 for the sake of titillating them... and that all the fetishistic tropes we see in play out here were originally just naturally included into things that weren't MEANT as titillation. Even Batgirl who was imperiled a bajillion times over her tenure in the show... wasn't 'specially' being imperiled. That was just the cadence of the show to leave every other episode off on a cliffhanger, and once Batgirl was introduced she just JOINED the other heroes in getting imperiled every other episode. They didn't go "We need superheroine fetish stuff to titillate audiences!" They were just adding Poochy to their failing show.

Chloroforming WW? Just meant to be an excuse for how she would be captured. Did they creators know it would spark the single most prominent SHiP peril in the world? Of course not. That wasn't their intention. They were just making a show and the Nazi's needed to somehow capture WW in that episode.

If the thing isn't GOOD, it's doomed to the underworld... and while I suppose I live here in the underworld, I'm not such a bitter resentful pill as to demand the underworld remain 'my' undisturbed space alone NOR do I demand all the other spaces BECOME my underworld.

Better the film be a GOOD movie, and showcase a thoughtful and captivating version of Supergirl that reaches audiences enough they want to see more of. The 'fetish' shit will come on its own, naturally, or all it'll be good for is nuking the film.

[Mr. X]

The 'fetish' shit will come on its own, naturally, or all it'll be good for is nuking the film.

You do know we're on a site devoted in part to this fetish... right?

[shevek]

The 'fetish' shit will come on its own, naturally, or all it'll be good for is nuking the film.

You do know we're on a site devoted in part to this fetish... right?

I'm not sure Femina realizes that one of intersectionality's goals was to eliminate any possible male gaze elements from everything.
They've been talking about doing that nonstop in gender studies classrooms since before the days of riot grrl.
In other words, don't ban the burqa which is oppressing millions, but definitely ban the fan service which is giving you the boner.

She understands that such elements used to 'naturally' be in everything. Great! But now they are 'artificially' removed from everything in most American and European productions (but thankfully, not in Asian productions).

Anyway, I've already read Woman of Tomorrow so I'm quite aware of the plot (although I'm sure Gunn has pushed the content closer to GOTG style). It's already not a plot I enjoyed, except for few times that Supergirl was seriously on the ropes. I like classic space opera, not the deconstructed kind.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that James Gunn doesn't even really know what 'punk rock' is, or even postpunk. And that he'd have been better off rewatching Tank Girl or Repo Man before making this movie.

[Note: in the past few hours, I've revised my thesis a bit. A friend told me to watch Tromeo and Juliet, and I did. So Gunn definitely does know what punk rock is - at least, he did in 1996 - and this version of Supergirl is the only thing we can expect from such a paradigm. Thus, it is what it is.]

As far as further analysis of a mangy mutt pissing on a newspaper, here's Nerdrotic (and no, I haven't watched him in months, but it came up quickly in my algorithm).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1pChcGrCPs

[Void]

Creative decisions and literal bannings are quite different, I think it's fair to say, and I think it would be a jaded, miopic view to imply that any creative decision here should have been for the purposes of kink, or that kink was innately there but then expressly removed in service of an agenda against boners.

That contrast becomes harder when it looks like they are playing up a more youthful/teenage presentation of the character. I very much agree with femina about this just not being a reasonable space to expect any kink appetites to be overtly catered to - although I disagree with the whole forum catching strays for an observation directed at Mr X.

The actress doesn't do it for me personally as supergirl, but I can't deny she looks good in the suit, and if she comes up against any kind of peril from any kind of villain then, no matter how it is portrayed, it will activate this kink in some people's minds - exactly how we were activated by similarly tame things from the media of our youth. The things that triggered me back then obviously don't even touch the sides now - except the raw appreciation for an attractive person looking great in a flattering outfit. 100% this supergirl film will be THE thing that awoke people to SHIP in years to come, and that's great.

I myself am too jaded to find much to get excited about here, but I'm still glad it's a thing. The constant, constant complaints I see from YouTube critics of 'girl bosses' is a driving force pushing us away from getting action heroine protagonists - I already know the tired platitudes they're going to roll out to hit this movie with without knowing anything more about it - so I'm glad to see supergirl still getting a big budget film in that climate. I'm also glad to see the indications that this story will acknowledge/play up SG's really traumatic back story.

[sneakly]

I think praying for a brief fetish moment turn up in main stream superheroine film is actually counter productive. The days of tuning in to the Batman episode at 4:00 PM after school to see if it is one of the Batgirl episodes is over. The internet got rid of that. If the movie movie creates interest in the character (i.e. people like the movie), fetish producers will start making associated content. If it manages to work in a good scene, that would be awsome, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Gal Godot's version of WW looked great, but she didn't get tied up and Aires didn't get a BJ. I am sure you can get those things from a producer online.

A good movie will inspire good fan fiction, good fetish videos and now, good imaginings in AI and maybe a series or sequel. A fan service mainstream fetish film would likely tank. Remember Halle Berry as Catwoman? hot actress, hot villainess, hot costume and the movie epically sucked. Adrianne Palicki as the WW? Good looking girl nice hot costume and it sucked rocks.... Supergirl on the CW... good looking girl, decent writing and it ran for six seasons. It produced some decent scenes and and inspired some fetish stories and content.

The Sydney Sweeney Barbarella may have more luck since the source material was inherently sexual, it may have more latitude to service the fans...

[brdiy]

I think praying for a brief fetish moment turn up in main stream superheroine film is actually counter productive. The days of tuning in to the Batman episode at 4:00 PM after school to see if it is one of the Batgirl episodes is over. The internet got rid of that. If the movie movie creates interest in the character (i.e. people like the movie), fetish producers will start making associated content. If it manages to work in a good scene, that would be awsome, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Gal Godot's version of WW looked great, but she didn't get tied up and Aires didn't get a BJ. I am sure you can get those things from a producer online.

A good movie will inspire good fan fiction, good fetish videos and now, good imaginings in AI and maybe a series or sequel. A fan service mainstream fetish film would likely tank. Remember Halle Berry as Catwoman? hot actress, hot villainess, hot costume and the movie epically sucked. Adrianne Palicki as the WW? Good looking girl nice hot costume and it sucked rocks.... Supergirl on the CW... good looking girl, decent writing and it ran for six seasons. It produced some decent scenes and and inspired some fetish stories and content.

The Sydney Sweeney Barbarella may have more luck since the source material was inherently sexual, it may have more latitude to service the fans...

This. Expecting straight-out fetish content in mainstream movies these days is a little too much to ask. I just wish people would become invested enough in the look of the superheroine to encourage the creation of new fetish material for the community.

[Femina]

The 'fetish' shit will come on its own, naturally, or all it'll be good for is nuking the film.

You do know we're on a site devoted in part to this fetish... right?

Where we are has nothing to do with what's good for the film or the fetish or what conversations we can and should have about the 'health' of the fetish. If you want to wank off NOW at the expense of your future wanking off material, this sort of behavior has been doing a FANTASTIC job for you... otherwise you're acting a hinderance to our own fetish.

If a lot of folks on this site had their way, a mainstream Supergirl film would basically be a Next Global Crisis production or something, and it would be the last Supergirl film EVER made as mainstream civilization denounced the franchise as gooner bait not worth anyone's time or a second thought. We'd be LUCKY if they tried again in 40 years if EVER as Superhero stuff goes the way of the Western more or less. This fetish is becoming ever more insular and critical of ANYTHING that might populate interest TOWARDS the fetish, probably because you're all watching too much Asmongold or Critical Drinker or something IDFK, but the general behavior towards Superheroine material from the mainstream here has ever and always been antagonistic and backwards thinking for people who "Know we're on a site devoted to this fetish.'

Ain't nobody putting a gun to your heads demanding you watch a superheroine film you aren't interested in, but the solidarity found herein with those out in the wild who are actively campaigning for the ABSENSE of Superheroine/female lead films and media would be baffling if it wasn't actively tragic. You're cutting the fetish's legs out from underneath it. Supergirl is getting her first full fledged film in FOURTY years... and what have we got to show for it? Folks whining about spaceships in comic books. Folks whining that Supergirl is drinking alcohol. Folks who deem themselves experts in a character they actively failed to read any of the actual source material about. Folks that just want a single image of Supergirl from which to drain their nugs!

I mean f'k me! The climate is so fucked right now it took two days for people to accept the new Lara Croft model is 'hot enough' that they are allowed to be excited after the game awards. This shit is FUCKING DIRE. STOP looking to these youtube fucks to dictate your opinions for you!

although I disagree with the whole forum catching strays for an observation directed at Mr X.

For the record, I don't in any way mean to imply the ENTIRE FORUM is itself a problem child nor that EVERY member is behaving in this counterproductive model... just above me are a few fantastically sensible posts! I do apologize for any sensationalized language that inadvertently fires flack at those who don't deserve it... But I daresay that the counterproductive models have, after a fashion, done pretty well at chasing off a good lot of more sensibly minded enthusiasts over the years. If a 'war' were being waged over sensible minded enthusiasts, and people who don't give a shit about the health of the fetish so long as they get theirs, my tenure here at the SHiP fetish site has indicated one side of that war is gradually winning... and it ain't the ones sensible enough to know what actions the mainstream should be taking that would ACTUALLY benefit 'us'.

[sneakly]

I am reminded of something that happened years ago. Someone on Brian's Page managed to secure movie rights to a one of the Republic Serials. they talked about it extensively in chats about making a PG peril movie for "us." I think it was Noyoka. He did start to make some low budget episodes that were generally unimpressive. But the perils were heavily chatted about and "getting it right"... As soon as the copyright holders realized what was being done, they shut it down.

The real Yvonne Craig was not into bondage, she was an actress and I am pretty sure she was asked a number of pretty creepy questions on a few occasions. Heather Thomas had a guy that kept trying to have her make a hyper violent movie. She got a restraining order after reading one of the scripts. Expecting that some actor, writer, producer is "one of us" is probably reading into things more than one should. You will get the occasional movie person that makes Suckerpunch, Aeneon Flux, Barbarella, Flash Gordon, Stripperella or someone like Russ Meyers. But they live in a universe where money has to be made. Bo Derek's version of Tarzan was complete fan service and is unwatchable, even though she is soaking wet and bras less the entire movie. I don't believe either lead actors in Xena were gay. The company realized that they were turning into Lesbian Icons and decided to lean in to it.

It is going to be that most of the movies that become Iconic, like Flash Gordon or Barbarella only became cult classics after being major failures. I hope that they will make a mainstream movie that really leans into the fetish material that I like most, but those are going to be lighten strikes. Most of the are going to be like Smallville where they build a franchise and throw us the occasional bone. I would rather have a movie that is successful and encourages more productions than the one that fan services and makes producers think there is no market.

[Mr. X]

Great, the forum gets the SHEDs treatment.

How do people go from - Would be nice to see a little fan service
to - The whole movie should be kink?

So is this kink? So we can't have like 1% of this but with women?

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[Malice]

Great, the forum gets the SHEDs treatment.
cavil.jpg

Bit off topic, but man, that freeze-frame is rough.

[Femina]

Great, the forum gets the SHEDs treatment.

How do people go from - Would be nice to see a little fan service
to - The whole movie should be kink?

So is this kink? So we can't have like 1% of this but with women?

thor.jpgcaptamerica.jpgcavil.jpg

Yeah you do this a lot... showing off shirtless Hemsworth as though a dude walking around without his shirt is somehow equivalent to... what... Showing supergirl writhing around on a pole while Lobo gropes and fondles her? Cause THATS the fetish right? THATS what the fetish wants to see. JUST seeing a naked shirtless woman doesn't get very many of our machines whirring very high out here. If it did, season 1 of Game of Thrones would be THE season of television for us. You want naked women? Just watch an HBO show.

As for 1% of superheroine peril? The movie's not out yet! We don't know what's in it, but I can say that if you'd read the source Material, Supergirl struggles quite often in WoT and a faithful adaptation would insist she be occasionally on the ropes. So can we quit with the bullshit precognitive movie criticism already?

"I think we've seen all the good there is to see in this film blah!" -Internet movie "critic" about a 60 second teaser trailer.

[Mr. X]

what... Showing supergirl writhing around on a pole while Lobo gropes and fondles her?

WHERE THE FUCK DID I ASK FOR THAT?

[sneakly]

what... Showing supergirl writhing around on a pole while Lobo gropes and fondles her?

WHERE THE FUCK DID I ASK FOR THAT?

You might not have asked for it, but I would certainly watch it...

[superbia19872]

what... Showing supergirl writhing around on a pole while Lobo gropes and fondles her?

WHERE THE FUCK DID I ASK FOR THAT?

It's hyperbole, guy. I'm so confident that you know what hyperbole is that I'm not sure why you just wasted any effort on this comment at all.

[superbia19872]

The 'fetish' shit will come on its own, naturally, or all it'll be good for is nuking the film.

You do know we're on a site devoted in part to this fetish... right?

Where we are has nothing to do with what's good for the film or the fetish or what conversations we can and should have about the 'health' of the fetish. If you want to wank off NOW at the expense of your future wanking off material, this sort of behavior has been doing a FANTASTIC job for you... otherwise you're acting a hinderance to our own fetish.

If a lot of folks on this site had their way, a mainstream Supergirl film would basically be a Next Global Crisis production or something, and it would be the last Supergirl film EVER made as mainstream civilization denounced the franchise as gooner bait not worth anyone's time or a second thought. We'd be LUCKY if they tried again in 40 years if EVER as Superhero stuff goes the way of the Western more or less. This fetish is becoming ever more insular and critical of ANYTHING that might populate interest TOWARDS the fetish, probably because you're all watching too much Asmongold or Critical Drinker or something IDFK, but the general behavior towards Superheroine material from the mainstream here has ever and always been antagonistic and backwards thinking for people who "Know we're on a site devoted to this fetish.'

Ain't nobody putting a gun to your heads demanding you watch a superheroine film you aren't interested in, but the solidarity found herein with those out in the wild who are actively campaigning for the ABSENSE of Superheroine/female lead films and media would be baffling if it wasn't actively tragic. You're cutting the fetish's legs out from underneath it. Supergirl is getting her first full fledged film in FOURTY years... and what have we got to show for it? Folks whining about spaceships in comic books. Folks whining that Supergirl is drinking alcohol. Folks who deem themselves experts in a character they actively failed to read any of the actual source material about. Folks that just want a single image of Supergirl from which to drain their nugs!

I mean f'k me! The climate is so fucked right now it took two days for people to accept the new Lara Croft model is 'hot enough' that they are allowed to be excited after the game awards. This shit is FUCKING DIRE. STOP looking to these youtube fucks to dictate your opinions for you!

although I disagree with the whole forum catching strays for an observation directed at Mr X.

For the record, I don't in any way mean to imply the ENTIRE FORUM is itself a problem child nor that EVERY member is behaving in this counterproductive model... just above me are a few fantastically sensible posts! I do apologize for any sensationalized language that inadvertently fires flack at those who don't deserve it... But I daresay that the counterproductive models have, after a fashion, done pretty well at chasing off a good lot of more sensibly minded enthusiasts over the years. If a 'war' were being waged over sensible minded enthusiasts, and people who don't give a shit about the health of the fetish so long as they get theirs, my tenure here at the SHiP fetish site has indicated one side of that war is gradually winning... and it ain't the ones sensible enough to know what actions the mainstream should be taking that would ACTUALLY benefit 'us'.

It's actually insane that anyone is pretending this isn't a prominent issue in the community. I don't remember a time where i haven't been occasionally gobsmacked by the sheer lack of self awareness displayed by some of the members of the community.

The idea that they EVER "throw us an occasional bone" is absurd to begin with. They don't like us. Every clip we get is against their wishes. If they didn't feel that way, no one ever would've received a cease and desist over the S emblem.

But it's also insane that anyone looks in mainstream media for kink at all anymore. The kink has evolved into a stylized variant of the action that doesn't work outside of a wank fest and there are mountains of content that cater to that.

[sneakly]

So we don't get any proper fan service?

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We have done pretty well with shows that have been around awhile.

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Supergirl had a gratuitous fashion show of the heroine trying out costumes that served NO PURPOSE other than to service the male fans...

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Of course there is absolutely no way that Smallville could possibly think of ways to avoid Erica Durance getting booty shorts and a bikini top or having her tied up in a fetish club with long pieces of cloth... because that is just such a regular thing to happen to your average young reporter....

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[Void]

It's also perfectly okay for people to like what they like, prefer what they prefer, and wish for content that suites their interests more - it isn't problematic to just have preferences, and to mildly express them. I agree with Femina's point that it's better for the long term health of our niche if more action heroine content is being made more often, and such content is more welcomed into/produced within 'mainstream' media - and I think those bridges would be burned more than built if their few launches into the limelight were overtly subversive. I also very much agree that more nudity or cynical shots of the heroine in states of undress ISN'T even the fetish/kink content we would be looking for - compared to prolonged sequences of physical or mental peril, displays of helplessness, story beats of manipulation or mind control, etc.

But I at least get the personal preference to want a superheroine story that stirs my voracious fetish appetite, or to get more visual titillation out of it. I don't think there's anything that should be pilloried about that, I just don't think it's a reasonable or sustainable expectation to have on mainstream productions.

There are hills I would at least grumble on, but this isn't it. I was going to say I would have grumbled if they had changed the design of SG's suit to cover her up more, but I actually really enjoyed the outfit the character had in the Flash movie - at least what I've seen from clips.

The basic point remains: It's great that a superheroine is getting her own movie. That is something we want more of, and the more we get the more fetish-activating moments are likely to appear. Anything that produces more SHIP enjoyers in the future is entirely welcome in my book.

[Femina]

what... Showing supergirl writhing around on a pole while Lobo gropes and fondles her?

WHERE THE FUCK DID I ASK FOR THAT?

No you're missing my point, but that could be my fault, I'll clarify.

I'm not saying YOU are asking for that. MAYBE you consider SHiP bone throwing to just be a shirtless Supergirl. IDK... I don't care. you do you. I'm pointing out that for the mainstream to be throwing THIS FETISH a 'bone' that is 'SHiP content' THAT'S what it would essentially have to be doing. Just having Supergirl walk around naked on screen isn't SHiP content by probably MOST of our estimations, shirtless supergirl would JUST be porn without something more going on... and contrary to your consistent argument of shirtless Hemsworth, a shirtless Scarlett Johansen or Brie Larson wouldn't be 'SHiP fetish content/bone throwing' either to elicit excitement in the comments above to which I was pointing and asking 'how can you be basing your excitement of this film on that?'. Maybe YOU'RE just saying you think there's a defecit of shirtless dudes to shirtless women in ALL media and that you find it sexist. I would argue then you just aren't paying very close attention to media. Topless women are everywhere. There's nipples in Dispatch... fuck there's a whole WETDREAM in Dispatch.

But mainstream media doesn't do the SHiP thing, that's not its purpose, ESPECIALLY in a DC superheroes fun for the whole family production. What it DOES do, is create fans of Supergirl, some of whom may find their way here... but it can't do ANYTHING if WE assist in killing everyone's enthusiasm for it before it ever comes out with useless drivel like 'How did Kara get ahold of a spaaaaaceship!?"

It's also perfectly okay for people to like what they like, prefer what they prefer, and wish for content that suites their interests more - it isn't problematic to just have preferences, and to mildly express them. I agree with Femina's point that it's better for the long term health of our niche if more action heroine content is being made more often, and such content is more welcomed into/produced within 'mainstream' media - and I think those bridges would be burned more than built if their few launches into the limelight were overtly subversive. I also very much agree that more nudity or cynical shots of the heroine in states of undress ISN'T even the fetish/kink content we would be looking for - compared to prolonged sequences of physical or mental peril, displays of helplessness, story beats of manipulation or mind control, etc.

But I at least get the personal preference to want a superheroine story that stirs my voracious fetish appetite, or to get more visual titillation out of it. I don't think there's anything that should be pilloried about that, I just don't think it's a reasonable or sustainable expectation to have on mainstream productions.

There are hills I would at least grumble on, but this isn't it. I was going to say I would have grumbled if they had changed the design of SG's suit to cover her up more, but I actually really enjoyed the outfit the character had in the Flash movie - at least what I've seen from clips.

The basic point remains: It's great that a superheroine is getting her own movie. That is something we want more of, and the more we get the more fetish-activating moments are likely to appear. Anything that produces more SHIP enjoyers in the future is entirely welcome in my book.

Certainly! I don't mean to harp... I just can't help seeing comments like "There doesn't look like there's enough fetish content in this film for me! I'ma pass and go watch Avengers Doomsday instead!" as anything other than a detrimental outlook for the fetish. If you're willing to turn your brain off and just have fun watching the Avengers... because it's not a 'superheroine' movie... but you DEMAND to be served fetish material in a Superheroine movie or else you won't watch it... than the fetish is, in the long run, fucked. They'll stop producing Superheroine movies period, and as such they will stop producing SHiP enthusiasts at the same time.

All of this going on concurrent with the youtube/gamer sphere essentially declaring war on ANY media whatsoever that has a woman in it... it's simply devastatingly depressing to see how infected even this space that's so dependent on female lead productions is with that thinking, any solidarity with the grifter sphere, is counterproductive to the fetish's long term applications. EVERYONE here should want the anti-woke anti-feminists to shut the fuck up so that people can be excited about women in frame once again, so that people can enjoy a superheroine on screen for long enough that they can wonder if they would enjoy seeing that superheroine tied up (or whatever) enough to enter into the fetish. So long as members here entertain solidarity with these fuckin' incel lunatics, they're aiding in packing dirt over our fetish's grave one shovelful at a time. OBVIOUSLY you're allowed to call a shit movie shit. You're even allowed to grumble that you don't want to watch women in films at all if that's what you really want... it's a free country, but if that IS what you want, then you should also have to accept the fact that you're ALSO destroying the fetish at the same time, and that nobody else in the fetish whom your attitude is fucking over should have to tiptoe around the fact that your outlook is a cancer to fetish's future! Sometimes you have to look around and use your logic and reason to determine how your actions and the actions of those like you are affecting the things YOU love and make your decisions accordingly.

Infinite gratitude, of course, for those of you who take the grifters for what they are and call them out on their bullshit and don't shit on upcoming media just because a straight white guy isn't the lead.

Anyway... Fun fact about the Flash's Supergirl... there's fuckin' LOADS of Supergirl peril in that movie! Nobody talks about it here probably cause nobody watched it or something, but we see Supergirl defeated by Zod and Faora like four times in 'alternate universes' as the Flash keeps reversing time in the finale. There's an especially tasty scene where she's held by her cape, dangling limp in Faora's grip.
My stories

[Void]

Certainly! I don't mean to harp... I just can't help seeing comments like "There doesn't look like there's enough fetish content in this film for me! I'ma pass and go watch Avengers Doomsday instead!" as anything other than a detrimental outlook for the fetish. If you're willing to turn your brain off and just have fun watching the Avengers... because it's not a 'superheroine' movie... but you DEMAND to be served fetish material in a Superheroine movie or else you won't watch it... than the fetish is, in the long run, fucked. They'll stop producing Superheroine movies period, and as such they will stop producing SHiP enthusiasts at the same time.

All of this going on concurrent with the youtube/gamer sphere essentially declaring war on ANY media whatsoever that has a woman in it... it's simply devastatingly depressing to see how infected even this space that's so dependent on female lead productions is with that thinking, any solidarity with the grifter sphere, is counterproductive to the fetish's long term applications. EVERYONE here should want the anti-woke anti-feminists to shut the fuck up so that people can be excited about women in frame once again, so that people can enjoy a superheroine on screen for long enough that they can wonder if they would enjoy seeing that superheroine tied up (or whatever) enough to enter into the fetish. So long as members here entertain solidarity with these fuckin' incel lunatics, they're aiding in packing dirt over our fetish's grave one shovelful at a time. OBVIOUSLY you're allowed to call a shit movie shit. You're even allowed to grumble that you don't want to watch women in films at all if that's what you really want... it's a free country, but if that IS what you want, then you should also have to accept the fact that you're ALSO destroying the fetish at the same time, and that nobody else in the fetish whom your attitude is fucking over should have to tiptoe around the fact that your outlook is a cancer to fetish's future! Sometimes you have to look around and use your logic and reason to determine how your actions and the actions of those like you are affecting the things YOU love and make your decisions accordingly.

Infinite gratitude, of course, for those of you who take the grifters for what they are and call them out on their bullshit and don't shit on upcoming media just because a straight white guy isn't the lead.

Anyway... Fun fact about the Flash's Supergirl... there's fuckin' LOADS of Supergirl peril in that movie! Nobody talks about it here probably cause nobody watched it or something, but we see Supergirl defeated by Zod and Faora like four times in 'alternate universes' as the Flash keeps reversing time in the finale. There's an especially tasty scene where she's held by her cape, dangling limp in Faora's grip.
My stories

Awesome - that kind of sells me on getting around to actually watching that one. I don't have the time I used to for these things, and it's depressingly easy to mindlessly scroll Youtube rather than sticking a film on when I am in a big enough pocket of time. I know it isn't the traditional SG look in any way (although, I think that character is meant to be actual female superman, rather than SG) but her whole look is incredible, imo.

I wouldn't say it quite so strongly, but I generally agree with your sentiment here. I have my fair share of gripes with story telling and the handeling of virtually every IP I used to like over the last... er... long period of time, but the complaints specifically focused on female characters being action heroines has become this weird, almost Pavlovian bugbear for a lot of critics I once largely agreed with that now overly influences their reviews of everything. It's like the action heroine has become an utterly unacceptable archetype for them, and it is never okay for them to win a fictional fight against men, because that's not physically plausible at all - but it's totally fine for Jackie Chan or Jet Li to merc a room full of larger men with their bare hands, or for Aragon and sodding Gimli to cut down a horde of hulking, armoured orcs. It's just total crap for hang-ups about plausibility to specifically only wake up to roll their eyes at female action characters, and then go back to sleep for male ones.

What's wild to me, to just riff on this tangent a bit longer, is that THESE were the people who would have once poked fun at the notion that a character had to always be received as a representative of the groups they 'belong to' - yet now it's like EVERY male character represents 'men' and 'masculinity' and EVERY female character is doing the same for women and 'femininity'. The male character isn't 'manly' enough. The female character isn't 'womanly' enough. It's like they're keeping score somewhere, how often male characters are right on screen versus female ones, and how often male characters save the day versus female ones - and I just don't care about what the sexes of the characters are, i just want them to be well written individuals. Nobody seemed to care in the 80s, 90s, and 00s when the power fantasy protagonists were virtually always dudes...

I've veered painfully off topic. There is of course reasonable middle ground here. It doesn't have to be either or between dramatic poles with no nuance between them. We can be personally cold on something without that meaning we're taking it away from others, and Mr X could have been hoping for whatever the equivalent of a 3 or 4 is, if 0 is SG wearing a burka for the whole film and never being even slightly imperilled, and 10 is a shameless fetish film. I mean, I would say seeing SG in a skin-tight top and very short skirt is already on a similar rung to shirtless Hemsworth, but I guess our mileages vary on what moves the needle.

Unrelated again, but shoutout to Dispatch. Mature, competent writing, compelling characters and story beats, sexy, funny, moving. Inject more of that into my veins.

[Femina]

Awesome - that kind of sells me on getting around to actually watching that one. I don't have the time I used to for these things, and it's depressingly easy to mindlessly scroll Youtube rather than sticking a film on when I am in a big enough pocket of time. I know it isn't the traditional SG look in any way (although, I think that character is meant to be actual female superman, rather than SG) but her whole look is incredible, imo.

I wouldn't say it quite so strongly, but I generally agree with your sentiment here. I have my fair share of gripes with story telling and the handeling of virtually every IP I used to like over the last... er... long period of time, but the complaints specifically focused on female characters being action heroines has become this weird, almost Pavlovian bugbear for a lot of critics I once largely agreed with that now overly influences their reviews of everything. It's like the action heroine has become an utterly unacceptable archetype for them, and it is never okay for them to win a fictional fight against men, because that's not physically plausible at all - but it's totally fine for Jackie Chan or Jet Li to merc a room full of larger men with their bare hands, or for Aragon and sodding Gimli to cut down a horde of hulking, armoured orcs. It's just total crap for hang-ups about plausibility to specifically only wake up to roll their eyes at female action characters, and then go back to sleep for male ones.

What's wild to me, to just riff on this tangent a bit longer, is that THESE were the people who would have once poked fun at the notion that a character had to always be received as a representative of the groups they 'belong to' - yet now it's like EVERY male character represents 'men' and 'masculinity' and EVERY female character is doing the same for women and 'femininity'. The male character isn't 'manly' enough. The female character isn't 'womanly' enough. It's like they're keeping score somewhere, how often male characters are right on screen versus female ones, and how often male characters save the day versus female ones - and I just don't care about what the sexes of the characters are, i just want them to be well written individuals. Nobody seemed to care in the 80s, 90s, and 00s when the power fantasy protagonists were virtually always dudes...

I've veered painfully off topic. There is of course reasonable middle ground here. It doesn't have to be either or between dramatic poles with no nuance between them. We can be personally cold on something without that meaning we're taking it away from others, and Mr X could have been hoping for whatever the equivalent of a 3 or 4 is, if 0 is SG wearing a burka for the whole film and never being even slightly imperiled, and 10 is a shameless fetish film. I mean, I would say seeing SG in a skin-tight top and very short skirt is already on a similar rung to shirtless Hemsworth, but I guess our mileages vary on what moves the needle.

Unrelated again, but shoutout to Dispatch. Mature, competent writing, compelling characters and story beats, sexy, funny, moving. Inject more of that into my veins.

Not a lot to add to your observations as they're basically in line with my own. I'm mad as hell about the Griftersphere and what they're doing to media critique and I'm not gonna take it anymore xD! It's a bunch of yokals looking for a bunch of sexist, racist assholes to tell them how to feel about movies, months or even years in advance of the product even releasing, the REALITY of their complaint couldn't be clearer, and is made even WORSE by the fact it's PERFORMATIVE sexism and racism. The Grifter doens't even always BELIEVE these things, they're spreading it to make money... profiting on hate and outrage. It's the single most pathetic and disgusting methodology a human being can partake in. Being worthless to society is a more honorable undertaking even than selling conflicts to weaken it.

Anyhow! To the topic!

Sasha Calle's Supergirl suit is sexy AF to me. Just showing a load of 'skin' hasn't ever done it for me. It CAN if the design is great, but the costume design is essentially my number 1 factor. For me it's about the 'form' and design of a costume... Calle's Supergirl's suit shows off her form perfectly, and the design of it is just really really solid. And yeah, she's essentially a female Superman, NOT 'Supergirl'.

Dispatch is my favorite Superhero thing ever now as well... but I did start an actual topic thread for that so I don't want to really pollute this spot here with much about it. Blonde Blazer is my 4Life superheroine now xD.

[spikeeagle2]

If you are looking for fetish content in mainstream, you probably are looking in the wrong place. I don't ever watch mainstream stuff if I am looking for peril or superhero fetish, it won't be there, and that has nothing to do with the producer; it has everything to do with the distribution network

One of my clients is a movie producer. I asked her a lot about movies and why we don't see that many "alternative" stories nowadays. She told me every distributor have their own algorithm, they run their number before picking up your project, and everything getting away from a General Admission is basically a minus mark for you, the less mark you get, the less chance your project will be picked up, it wasn't just sexual stuff, swearing, violence and stuffs that will get you MA 15+ is all a big no-no.

James Gunn has his way to sway the distributor, and that may not be your cup of teas or you may not agree with, but at the end of the day, they were gearing that movie for sales, and for every one of us who had a fetish on the genre, there are 10 kids that just want to go in and have fun, which make Gunn needed to please those 10 kids more than any one of us. This is not about feminism or virtualism, it's just about money. If you can make your fetish mainstream and have those 10 kids go in and watch it, they will make it. Regardless of whether or not it's woke or feminist.

[bushwackerbob]

As someone who came of age before the Internet, cell phones, and social media, the one aspect I find odd on social media is how folks predict, project, speculate, and dissect everything about a movie before it even comes out and having seen it and act as if they know what every frame of the film contains. I find that phenomenon very strange. I don't remember this actually being a thing before the advent of social media, although I do remember the Hollywood media bozos predicting James Cameron's Titanic was going to be an all time bomb at the box office, and we saw how that turned out. I will withhold judgement until the film actually comes out.

[superbia19872]

As someone who came of age before the Internet, cell phones, and social media, the one aspect I find odd on social media is how folks predict, project, speculate, and dissect everything about a movie before it even comes out and having seen it and act as if they know what every frame of the film contains. I find that phenomenon very strange. I don't remember this actually being a thing before the advent of social media, although I do remember the Hollywood media bozos predicting James Cameron's Titanic was going to be an all time bomb at the box office, and we saw how that turned out. I will withhold judgement until the film actually comes out.

I was target audience for myspace and i don't get it either. I don't really interact with the fandom because the toxicity is obnoxious. If you're going to be so invested in the composition of these productions that you film yourself having meltdowns and post them on the internet, maybe just learn how to write your own stories instead if you know so absolutely how to portray these characters.

I'm going to be stitched if some of these reactionaries do something with AI and there's a wave of existential crises when they realize 10,000 hours with action figures was not, in fact, sufficient storytelling education. They won't ask themselves if any of their criticisms over the years have been irrational. Maybe they can insulate themselves with an echo chamber. It certainly seems to work for other deeply irrational groups.

[superbia19872]

what... Showing supergirl writhing around on a pole while Lobo gropes and fondles her?

WHERE THE FUCK DID I ASK FOR THAT?

No you're missing my point, but that could be my fault, I'll clarify.

I'm not saying YOU are asking for that. MAYBE you consider SHiP bone throwing to just be a shirtless Supergirl. IDK... I don't care. you do you. I'm pointing out that for the mainstream to be throwing THIS FETISH a 'bone' that is 'SHiP content' THAT'S what it would essentially have to be doing. Just having Supergirl walk around naked on screen isn't SHiP content by probably MOST of our estimations, shirtless supergirl would JUST be porn without something more going on... and contrary to your consistent argument of shirtless Hemsworth, a shirtless Scarlett Johansen or Brie Larson wouldn't be 'SHiP fetish content/bone throwing' either to elicit excitement in the comments above to which I was pointing and asking 'how can you be basing your excitement of this film on that?'. Maybe YOU'RE just saying you think there's a defecit of shirtless dudes to shirtless women in ALL media and that you find it sexist. I would argue then you just aren't paying very close attention to media. Topless women are everywhere. There's nipples in Dispatch... fuck there's a whole WETDREAM in Dispatch.

But mainstream media doesn't do the SHiP thing, that's not its purpose, ESPECIALLY in a DC superheroes fun for the whole family production. What it DOES do, is create fans of Supergirl, some of whom may find their way here... but it can't do ANYTHING if WE assist in killing everyone's enthusiasm for it before it ever comes out with useless drivel like 'How did Kara get ahold of a spaaaaaceship!?"

It's also perfectly okay for people to like what they like, prefer what they prefer, and wish for content that suites their interests more - it isn't problematic to just have preferences, and to mildly express them. I agree with Femina's point that it's better for the long term health of our niche if more action heroine content is being made more often, and such content is more welcomed into/produced within 'mainstream' media - and I think those bridges would be burned more than built if their few launches into the limelight were overtly subversive. I also very much agree that more nudity or cynical shots of the heroine in states of undress ISN'T even the fetish/kink content we would be looking for - compared to prolonged sequences of physical or mental peril, displays of helplessness, story beats of manipulation or mind control, etc.

But I at least get the personal preference to want a superheroine story that stirs my voracious fetish appetite, or to get more visual titillation out of it. I don't think there's anything that should be pilloried about that, I just don't think it's a reasonable or sustainable expectation to have on mainstream productions.

There are hills I would at least grumble on, but this isn't it. I was going to say I would have grumbled if they had changed the design of SG's suit to cover her up more, but I actually really enjoyed the outfit the character had in the Flash movie - at least what I've seen from clips.

The basic point remains: It's great that a superheroine is getting her own movie. That is something we want more of, and the more we get the more fetish-activating moments are likely to appear. Anything that produces more SHIP enjoyers in the future is entirely welcome in my book.

Certainly! I don't mean to harp... I just can't help seeing comments like "There doesn't look like there's enough fetish content in this film for me! I'ma pass and go watch Avengers Doomsday instead!" as anything other than a detrimental outlook for the fetish. If you're willing to turn your brain off and just have fun watching the Avengers... because it's not a 'superheroine' movie... but you DEMAND to be served fetish material in a Superheroine movie or else you won't watch it... than the fetish is, in the long run, fucked. They'll stop producing Superheroine movies period, and as such they will stop producing SHiP enthusiasts at the same time.

All of this going on concurrent with the youtube/gamer sphere essentially declaring war on ANY media whatsoever that has a woman in it... it's simply devastatingly depressing to see how infected even this space that's so dependent on female lead productions is with that thinking, any solidarity with the grifter sphere, is counterproductive to the fetish's long term applications. EVERYONE here should want the anti-woke anti-feminists to shut the fuck up so that people can be excited about women in frame once again, so that people can enjoy a superheroine on screen for long enough that they can wonder if they would enjoy seeing that superheroine tied up (or whatever) enough to enter into the fetish. So long as members here entertain solidarity with these fuckin' incel lunatics, they're aiding in packing dirt over our fetish's grave one shovelful at a time. OBVIOUSLY you're allowed to call a shit movie shit. You're even allowed to grumble that you don't want to watch women in films at all if that's what you really want... it's a free country, but if that IS what you want, then you should also have to accept the fact that you're ALSO destroying the fetish at the same time, and that nobody else in the fetish whom your attitude is fucking over should have to tiptoe around the fact that your outlook is a cancer to fetish's future! Sometimes you have to look around and use your logic and reason to determine how your actions and the actions of those like you are affecting the things YOU love and make your decisions accordingly.

Infinite gratitude, of course, for those of you who take the grifters for what they are and call them out on their bullshit and don't shit on upcoming media just because a straight white guy isn't the lead.

Anyway... Fun fact about the Flash's Supergirl... there's fuckin' LOADS of Supergirl peril in that movie! Nobody talks about it here probably cause nobody watched it or something, but we see Supergirl defeated by Zod and Faora like four times in 'alternate universes' as the Flash keeps reversing time in the finale. There's an especially tasty scene where she's held by her cape, dangling limp in Faora's grip.
My stories

Yes, that was all very good, but let's not let it distract from the fact that Nicholas Cage fought the fiercest killer in the animal kingdom and i think we can all agree that was the most important takeaway.

[Femina]

Yes, that was all very good, but let's not let it distract from the fact that Nicholas Cage fought the fiercest killer in the animal kingdom and i think we can all agree that was the most important takeaway.

Try to stay on topic. The best part was when Cage pissed fire and we all know it.

[superbia19872]

Yes, that was all very good, but let's not let it distract from the fact that Nicholas Cage fought the fiercest killer in the animal kingdom and i think we can all agree that was the most important takeaway.

Try to stay on topic. The best part was when Cage pissed fire and we all know it.

I don't know. Was it really better than the lightning farts?

[Femina]

Yes, that was all very good, but let's not let it distract from the fact that Nicholas Cage fought the fiercest killer in the animal kingdom and i think we can all agree that was the most important takeaway.

Try to stay on topic. The best part was when Cage pissed fire and we all know it.

I don't know. Was it really better than the lightning farts?

Yes

[superbia19872]

Yes, that was all very good, but let's not let it distract from the fact that Nicholas Cage fought the fiercest killer in the animal kingdom and i think we can all agree that was the most important takeaway.

Try to stay on topic. The best part was when Cage pissed fire and we all know it.

I don't know. Was it really better than the lightning farts?

Yes

Oh, my god! I haven't seen that movie since it came out and i thought you were just riffing on the absurd so i played along. Agreed. Much better than lightning farts.

[dingerdude]

New trailer, now with more Krypto the dog and Lobo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1-pfiVMKAs

[sugarcoater]

SSDD

I'm just curious........ Has no one actually read Woman of Tomorrow?

It begins with Supergirl drunk on an alien world, disheveled and kind of a wreck....... it's like, the starting point of the series. She's in that exact f'kn trench coat.

It's ABOUT Supergirl in a rut, part of it is her pulling herself out of that rut, but it's got a lot more going on. It's a story about surviving trauma, and picking yourself up to be a hero and role model?

Read a book sometime maybe before you say something stupid? Or even just f'kn Wiki it? They told you exactly which Supergirl story they were telling when they announced it... it's not their problem if you never actually read the book.

Yes. I read it. It's not even the first time that Supergirl ventures out into space to get answers with regards to Krypton's destruction. The Andrekyo run also did that (she even brought Krypto along) and it was not that long ago (2015).

If you go all the way back to The Specials (2000) and Super (2007) you'll find that James Gunn's material about superheroes is frequent, but it's never really aspirational. That is to say, the characters are never really better than us. They're incredibly flawed individuals who somehow get their shit together after enduring various traumas and setbacks. Internal anguish is one way to write a heroic arc but it's not the only one.

Meanwhile, you'll find that Tom King, the writer of the limited edition series Woman of Tomorrow, often deals with emotional themes and deconstructs his characters to crack open facades of bravery and heroism to get to the emotional flaws and traumas within. A good example of that is his "Bat/Cat" run where Selina Kyle is not so much Bruce's passionate lover as his emotional support mommy. He's been praised for approaches like this because that's what the progressive-leaning panel which votes on the Eisners prefers to see in comic book content nowadays (which is not necessarily the same content which paying customers want to read).

Let me reiterate: Woman of Tomorrow was not technically a 'run'. It didn't bring up Kryptonian lore and Supergirl's personality within the context of an ongoing book that featured multiple storylines and interactions with many characters from the DC Universe. It didn't even offer an interesting plot twist such as Supergirl's rage taking over so much that she temporarily becomes a Red Lantern (which was a hot concept). It didn't even totally rework the entire character of Supergirl like Peter David did (which really wound up creating another alternative universe version).

It was merely a MINI-series, meant to introduce Tom King to the character because he is one of the biggest-name writers and therefore DC could count on a good-selling book. The art? Bilquis Evely draws exquisitely, but she has a very specific style which is not meant for mainstream comic runs because it is very stylized and intricate. That's why she did a mini-series but not a regular comic run.

So, yes, my problem is inherently that the Supergirl reboot is using Woman of Tomorrow as the kickoff. Because it is by far not the best example of how to launch a franchise. It's a "Brat Summer" approach meant to pander to younger audiences who spend their lives watching women stumble around drunkenly and rage at the camera on Tiktok, while calling each other "bro" and "dude". The movie exists because it is a deconstructive approach to Supergirl - the approach that Tom King and James Gunn can both agree on.

Nobody wants to just see another bland Helen Slater movie. That's not the point, and I did not say that. I was only mentioning Helen Slater to note the fact that Milly Alcock does not match Slater's attractiveness.

But you know what most people DO want to see? A movie that feels like the first season of the Supergirl TV show. The one that everyone watched because it was on CBS. The one that 1) showed her origin story, 2) placed her firmly within the context of how she's fitting in on Earth with her job and her friends, 3) pitted her against major DC villain threats, and 4) used the incredibly beautiful Melissa Benoist in a stunning tight costume to do all of that.

From what I understand (having read Woman of Tomorrow, having read various articles emphasizing terms like "total mess" and "disheveled", and having seen the cameo at the end of Superman) the James Gunn Supergirl movie doesn't do any of that. It's quite nearly a blank slate: tossing her almost immediately into action in faraway space locales nobody's heard of (i.e. not Krypton, not Metropolis, not Central City), alongside a character nobody's heard of (Ruthye Marie Knoll), pitting her against an enemy that nobody's heard of (the pirates and plunderers who are blamed for the destruction of Krypton). Not to mention making up yet another reason for Krypton's destruction (haven't there been five or six explanations by now within the context of DC's terrible continuity?).

Does it make any sense to you to introduce so many unknown and new elements in a reboot of the Supergirl character? I'm not saying that the Woman of Tomorrow movie should never be made. Maybe it should be made somewhere down the line after the potential viewing audience is familiar with the character, like the way the meandering Supergirl CW show eventually sends Kara's storyline into the Phantom Zone or the Mxyzptlk realm or to Mars, etc.

But first, introduce the character correctly to the new audience. And if possible, use an actress who is maximally attractive and expressive.

That's just my take. It has almost nothing to do with our own niche fetish perspective. If it did, I would say two things about Woman of Tomorrow: 1) It all depends on how good Alcock looks in a tight costume, and 2) looking forward to the absolute perilous thrashing she receives during that fight with the pirates, because yes, I read the book.

It simply has to do with common sense, storytelling acumen, and my general familiarity with both the Supergirl character since the 1970s (Adventure Comics etc - remember that I first encountered Supergirl when reading the Dial H for Hero backup stories) and James Gunn's general approach to his superhero movies. What worked in the Guardians movies (which are space opera romps) and his indie superhero films shouldn't be applicable here.

We can firmly agree to disagree if you like.

Have to say, I've always appreciated reading your responses and thought Shevek. You write well thought out posts and add context to your points. Regardless of the extent to which someone may agree or disagree with your points, you're logical and reasonable in your arguments.

[Dazzle1]

https://x.com/FilmUpdates/status/1906725981093564753

I still am puzzled why Supergirl is going to be the 4th Pillar

If Gunn is set on two males and two females: Black Canary, Batgirl or Zatana are better choices

As far as a DC movies there would be a lot more demand for Nightwing or MR Terrefic