Rogue One: A Star Wars Story - Teaser Trailer

[Heroine Addict]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wji-BZ0oCwg

Amazed at how good the casting of Mon Mothma is. Strangely enough, Genevieve O'Reilly was previously cast as the younger MM in Revenge of the Sith, but she didn't make it into the final cut.

[Abductorenmadrid]

Yes, I noted MM in that little trailer too - very good.

[SGWriter]

I dug the new trailer. Jyn looks like she'll be an awesome character and I dug the gritty 'Dirty Dozen' feel this had. Also like how it seems to be purely Empire vs Rebellion, giving us a break from the Dark vs Light Side of the force.

I'll be checking this out

[avenger]

I noticed how better things are getting now that George Lucas is kept far away from these new Star Wars projects. I honestly don't own, and probably never will, the 'prequels' and what very little I did see of them looked like he vomited CGI in every scene he could. I love what JJ Abrams did with episode 7 and his attention to detail, especially the flight scenes (vapor trails, heat contrails, realistic explosions, etc.) he just seemed to get the dynamics of flight down. The new Rogue One looks just as good and like someone said, the 'gritty' feel to it, with the perfect combination of classic and new. George 'selling his soul' to Disney was the best thing that could have happened to the Star Wars franchise, in my opinion

[mjkjets]

It's nice to see the AT-AT again. I'm curious how big of a role Darth Vader will play in this movie. I hope its more than a cameo appearance.

[tallyho]

I like the look of it but I hope they have better baddies than the last film - they were just too young. The Nazi-rally style speech to the troops needed to be delivered by someone with real gravitas and presence - someone like Charles Dance; instead we got a 32 year old ginger schoolboy with all the menace of a soggy biscuit who we are expected to believe is a general. And then Lord Smoak or Snoak a lame CGI hologram that may or may not be sitting on the toilet. Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.

[avenger]

He was a soggy biscuit, but he was a determined soggy biscuit

[Heroine Addict]

I like the look of it but I hope they have better baddies than the last film - they were just too young. The Nazi-rally style speech to the troops needed to be delivered by someone with real gravitas and presence - someone like Charles Dance; instead we got a 32 year old ginger schoolboy with all the menace of a soggy biscuit who we are expected to believe is a general. And then Lord Smoak or Snoak a lame CGI hologram that may or may not be sitting on the toilet. Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.

You know you're getting old when the fascist generals start to look young.

[tallyho]

BUT THEY WERE YOUNG! BARELY OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE OVERSEEN THEIR FIRST GENOCIDE!

[Dogfish]

I like the look of it but I hope they have better baddies than the last film - they were just too young. The Nazi-rally style speech to the troops needed to be delivered by someone with real gravitas and presence - someone like Charles Dance; instead we got a 32 year old ginger schoolboy with all the menace of a soggy biscuit who we are expected to believe is a general. And then Lord Smoak or Snoak a lame CGI hologram that may or may not be sitting on the toilet. Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.

That's Brendan Gleeson's kid, he was in The Revenant too. I thought he was okay, he'll have to fill out a bigger role in the later films I suspect. I like that he's taken on the Tarkin role of the kind of grounded, secular military man alongside a radical religious zealot. While I expect Peter Cushing was probably very expensive to hire I do think it was a mistake in the first movie to blow him up.

I think the hologram baddie might be a little guy, hence the giant hologram. My bet is on it being a little Yoda type bloke.

[Philo Hunter]

I think the hologram baddie might be a little guy, hence the giant hologram. My bet is on it being a little Yoda type bloke.

I'd bet against them actually doing that. But god damn do I want him to be like a foot tall, smaller than even Yoda.

[Abductorenmadrid]

I like the look of it but I hope they have better baddies than the last film - they were just too young. The Nazi-rally style speech to the troops needed to be delivered by someone with real gravitas and presence - someone like Charles Dance; instead we got a 32 year old ginger schoolboy with all the menace of a soggy biscuit who we are expected to believe is a general. And then Lord Smoak or Snoak a lame CGI hologram that may or may not be sitting on the toilet. Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.

On the one hand I agree with this, I wasn't really feeling the power of the dark side at all - but only up to the point. The sense I got from the film was that there really was this epic power vacuum with the end of the emperor and the end of Vader. With the force it struck me that force aware people were still being born in the absence of the Jedi and the Sith and so of course you get this sense of kids being left in charge of the force powers sweet shop.

So yes, I agree we could have done with one or two hard hitters with real presence but I would like to think just a little bit that this was the vision. The galaxy is a little rudderless until a new order is properly established and new cream rises to the top.

[Dogfish]

I like the look of it but I hope they have better baddies than the last film - they were just too young. The Nazi-rally style speech to the troops needed to be delivered by someone with real gravitas and presence - someone like Charles Dance; instead we got a 32 year old ginger schoolboy with all the menace of a soggy biscuit who we are expected to believe is a general. And then Lord Smoak or Snoak a lame CGI hologram that may or may not be sitting on the toilet. Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.

On the one hand I agree with this, I wasn't really feeling the power of the dark side at all - but only up to the point. The sense I got from the film was that there really was this epic power vacuum with the end of the emperor and the end of Vader. With the force it struck me that force aware people were still being born in the absence of the Jedi and the Sith and so of course you get this sense of kids being left in charge of the force powers sweet shop.

So yes, I agree we could have done with one or two hard hitters with real presence but I would like to think just a little bit that this was the vision. The galaxy is a little rudderless until a new order is properly established and new cream rises to the top.

Yep the power vacuum is implied but not mentioned in the movies. At the Battle of Endor not only is the Death Star blown up, but so is the Super Star Destroyer which is the Imperial flagship. And the Imperial fleet at Endor is pretty much an all-in gambit, lot of commanders would want to be in there at the end to lay claim to some of the glory, so when they lose there's probably not that many top level commanders left. Not to mention Vader being in charge without Tarkin (between IV and VI) to keep him in line means a lot of vacancies in the officer cadre due to workplace related force-chokings.

That said, for me the biggest oddity, and what I disliked most about Force Awakens, is the new Death Star. I makes no sense in any kind of understanding of the 'rules' of the Star Wars universe, plus there's no sense of the strategy and logistics of how it's built. I mean it's a supermegadeathstar, blows up more planets, from even further away, and there's no explanation to any of it. The Death Star had to fly over to a planet, park up, take aim and kablooie. This one is vastly, ludicrously, better than that. And they can build it after losing the war? Without anybody knowing? Bleh. I liked Force Awakens in general, but that whole part of the plot was garbage. Underpinning the Star Wars trilogy has always been a sense that the war was going on and it kind of made sense, spies found the Death Star weakness, fighters took it out because of the weapon would burst big ships, Empire tries to hunt down rebels, rebels find out about new Death Star, attack it, it's a trap, rebels win anyway [because reasons]. It was a thin meta plot but it made sense. Magic planet-sized interstellar torpedo laser thing? WTF.

[tallyho]

The Death Star had to fly over to a planet, park up, take aim and kablooie .

Don't forget the Deathstar did all that flying from place to place without any engines and was apparently a lot quicker than ships doing it - er...must've been the improved aerodynamics of being a giant round planet. Sorry, small moon.

Worst plot ever though was Anakin butchering a galaxy because he was having some bad dreams.

'I'm having trouble sleeping, bit worried something is gonna happen to Padme'

'Oh just kill everyone, it'll be fine.'

'Oh, ok.'


Yeah that makes sense. Lucas at his inspiring best.

[FallOutDweller]

BUT THEY WERE YOUNG! BARELY OLD ENOUGH TO HAVE OVERSEEN THEIR FIRST GENOCIDE!

I can clearly see a a Monty Python cast position coming for you in the future and Anastasia Pierce cumming for us in the future cast as whoever Felicity Jones is playing as the heroine on this movie in a yet to be made porn parody about it.

Honestly I don't see anyone else with the talent for it. Never meet you in person but I sense a vibe of Terry Jones coming from you Doctor Ho.

[tallyho]

Yep the power vacuum is implied but not mentioned in the movies. At the Battle of Endor not only is the Death Star blown up, but so is the Super Star Destroyer which is the Imperial flagship. And the Imperial fleet at Endor is pretty much an all-in gambit, lot of commanders would want to be in there at the end to lay claim to some of the glory, so when they lose there's probably not that many top level commanders left. Not to mention Vader being in charge without Tarkin (between IV and VI) to keep him in line means a lot of vacancies in the officer cadre due to workplace related force-chokings.

^^^^ Hmmm, interesting point....makes me wonder how it went down...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IN BRIEFING ROOMS ALL OVER THE EMPIRE, NERVOUS IMPERIAL STORM TROOPERS GATHERED....


“OK! OK! HUSH PEOPLE! QUIET DOWN, QUIET PLEASE! YEP, LITTLE HUSH PLEASE? SETTLE DOWN! THANK YOU! Ok, thank you. Now you all know me right? Served under Tarkin for years. Luckily got my transfer off the Deathtrap- oh I mean DeathStar before it went bang” he waited for the sniggers to subside before continuing “so you know I'm gonna be telling it like it is, ok? No frills, no management spin, alright? Ok then. Now, I'm sure we've all heard the rumours right? Second DeathStar blown up, Emperor DEAD, the main Imperial Fleet wiped out, even Executor Superstar Destroyer destroyed, and of course all of our 'ELITE' “- he made air quotation marks- “forces on Endor wiped out by teddy bears! And YADDA -YADDA -YADDA Right? I mean come on! Did I miss anything ridiculous out? I don't think so, they are ALL the rumours flying round right?” he waved the snickering laughter down with his palms. “I know, I know guys its hilarious ain't it?” he looked at the sea of Storm Troopers laughing and shaking their helmeted heads in amusement. “Yeah, well, ….no easy way to say this, I am here to tell you that they are all true....QUIET! QUIET! HUSH PEOPLE! I HAVEN'T FINISHED YET! SETTLE DOWN, PLEASE! NO QUIET! QUIET PLEASE! I KNOW , I KNOW YOU ARE ALL – YEAH QUIET PLEASE! I KNOW YOU ARE ALL WONDERING HOW THE HELL THAT ALL HAPPENED- WELL SO ARE WE, WELL WHATS LEFT OF THE HIGH COMMAND”


“THAT 358TH DIVISION SUCK!” Shouted a voice at the back which was taken up with a chorus of 'YEAH's'


“Well I think thats pretty damned obvious. They just got beaten up by teddy bears armed with sticks and stones. This is what happens when you don't do your weekly target practice – you can't hit a barn door with a blaster, right? I keep telling you guys and you just never listen to me. Well now you see what happens when you miss a few sessions. Yes, you with the hand up”


“Er. TK-421: I heard they blew off Princess Leia's head though right? So it ain't all bad news”


“Yeah well that rumour isn't true, she just got shot in the arm...see what I mean about the target practice? Oh but, er..." he looked at his notes -" we did hurt them some on the ground...yep, according to the tally sheet 8 teddy bears were killed, AND one of them had a red hood "-he paused for reaction but his audience remained strangely non-plussed- " and the boys of the 358th shot down one wooden hang glider thing...but we lost our energy shield base and about 1000 guys plus, scout walkers, oh and them fancy tree speeder hover bikes with the long neck thing, you know the ones I mean right? Yeah we lost a shitload of those too.”


“This will mean a management change?”


“I should think that's likely, yes.”


“Redundancies?”


“That can't be ruled out either.”


“What about our pension?”


“That's pretty much gone. We were using the StormTrooper pension fund to borrow against the DeathStar loan. On the basis that once it was operational we would get a tenfold return on our investment.....”


“AWWWW, MAN! THIS SUCKS!”


“HEY LOOK I'VE LOST MONEY TOO PEOPLE! I FEEL YOUR PAIN BELIEVE ME!
But on a high note there will be vacancies at the senior management level. Which means even that useless ginger second leiutenant kid in Pay section might make it to a general in, hey maybe 15, 20 years who knows?”


“NEVER GONNA HAPPEN!”


“HEY YOU DON'T KNOW THAT TK-421! And anyway, why aren't you at your post? “
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any how, jollity aside, lets just keep fingers crossed that as this predates the Disney kids they actually have people in charge who look and ACT as if they should be in command with a bit of menace thrown in (but not of the 'phantom' kind)

[DrDominator9]

Tallyho, please stop it. I can't breathe for laughing. Oh wait, is that a ghost of the old Vader death choke? Maybe I'm not laughing, maybe I'm actually dying. Erggkkk... glad I didn't chose to put into the pension matching fund at least...like the rest of ... you suckers... errggkk... oooohh... look at all the pretty lights....acckkggg.... buh bye now...

[Abductorenmadrid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mAOX_CHU0JY

[FallOutDweller]

Why the BBC never hire Tallyho ? The true response : the good money is on literature and licensing rights. Ask J.K.Rowling.

[Dogfish]

The Death Star had to fly over to a planet, park up, take aim and kablooie .

Don't forget the Deathstar did all that flying from place to place without any engines and was apparently a lot quicker than ships doing it - er...must've been the improved aerodynamics of being a giant round planet. Sorry, small moon.

Worst plot ever though was Anakin butchering a galaxy because he was having some bad dreams.

'I'm having trouble sleeping, bit worried something is gonna happen to Padme'

'Oh just kill everyone, it'll be fine.'

'Oh, ok.'


Yeah that makes sense. Lucas at his inspiring best.

See you're right, that's a bit daft, but that daftness pales alongside the daftness of those Super Deathstar projectiles being able to suddenly hit five planets, simultaneously, with complete surprise, from another planetary systems. I mean even if you buy the idea they can cover the distance and cannot be intercepted in any way, the idea they can't be detected, and that folks couldn't scramble the fleet to get away, it's just. GAH.

It's disappointing to say the least.

I suppose in truth the only reason the first movie battles make any sense is because they ripped them off from Dambusters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M

[DrDominator9]

Wow! That's quite an eye-opening bit of information, that comparison between the two movies. Really makes you rethink Lucas.

[Dogfish]

Wow! That's quite an eye-opening bit of information, that comparison between the two movies. Really makes you rethink Lucas.

It does. Especially because Dambusters didn't have a fat bloke called Porkins.

A fat bloke. Whose name is Porkins.

George Lucas ladies and gentlemen, what a genius.

[tallyho]

In fairness thats been common knowledge this side of the water since '77. When they were pitching the film they obviously had no models made etc so they had put together montages of Spitfires from real life WW2 gun camera footage and The Battle Of Britain film as the basis for what the model sequences would look like and of course the DB sequence at the end (can't believe they issue a racist language warning before they show that film now because of the name of Guy Gibson's dog! Political correctness gone mad).
And Spielberg & Lucas happily admitted as much back then, but it just seems to have been forgotten.
Baring in mind that sequence is essentially 'real life' based on surviving accounts from those who took part, its really a case of art imitating life [ or art imitating art imitating real life]

[tallyho]

Wow! That's quite an eye-opening bit of information, that comparison between the two movies. Really makes you rethink Lucas.

George Lucas ladies and gentlemen, what a genius.

The whole story is just white knight saves damsel in distress from black knight in his impregnable castle. He just set it in space. And made the castle round.

[FallOutDweller]

TallyHo is the young Grand Moff Tarkin, just saying. Or at least he should be cast as in a fan video parody yet to be made that might or not have some fetish scenes in it.

[Philo Hunter]

Wow! That's quite an eye-opening bit of information, that comparison between the two movies. Really makes you rethink Lucas.

George Lucas ladies and gentlemen, what a genius.

The whole story is just white knight saves damsel in distress from black knight in his impregnable castle. He just set it in space. And made the castle round.

The only reason he made it in the first place is he wanted to do a Flash Gordon movie but couldn't get the rights. In his early drafts for the script the bad guy looked just like Ming the Merciless. But with each revision the story got further and further from it's initial inspiration and slowly became it's own thing. And then all the people that worked on the movie tweaked that, adding the sounds and visuals that made it unique. That's how good art works, its collaborative and evolves from something simple and usually derivative.

[tallyho]

That's how good art works, its collaborative and evolves from something simple and usually derivative.

I would say personally that good art is original and innovative.
I'm not sure who greats like Seurat could have derived or collaborated from/with, but hey, each to their own
It was the effects and cinematography that made these films great not the story. The story was simple and appealed to children because it was the age old story of good against bad and good guy gets the girl in the end. But if collaboration and derivation define good art for you, then hey that's your call.

[DrDominator9]

Derivation and collaboration is one thing. A nearly direct lift like the one from Dam Busters is treading a pretty close line to cinematic plagiarism if you ask me.

[Philo Hunter]

Derivation and collaboration is one thing. A nearly direct lift like the one from Dam Busters is treading a pretty close line to cinematic plagiarism if you ask me.

Then you really should throw almost the entirety of the original Star Wars. There was very little in that movie that was original. Even the opening crawl and the weird angled scene swipes were lifted directly form old Flash Gordan serials.

I would say personally that good art is original and innovative.
I'm not sure who greats like Seurat could have derived or collaborated from/with, but hey, each to their own.

But innovation is built on the shoulders of what came before. You are, by definition, advancing something into a new, better/more advanced version. It is easy to be original and innovative yet still be derivative, ESPECIALLY in any art that involves story telling. You can pull any story apart and say, "this point is just a new version of this older thing".

As for Seurat if I recall correctly he was part of some kind of avant-garde artists group/collective called 'Les Vingdet' or something like that. Paul Signac had something to do with that group (again, I can't remember exactly) and they bounced ideas off of each other and their art influenced each other. I can't think of any artists that created their art in a vacuum and were uninfluenced by others that either came before them or were their contemporaries. The art movement they started was just advancing what had been done with Impressionism and they couldn't have created pointillism without what came before them.

[tallyho]

You can pull any story apart and say, "this point is just a new version of this older thing".

But lets face it, there is nothing to pull apart in the New Hope story its that simple

[Shakeshift]

Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.


Uhmmm... Peter Cushing has been dead for almost 15 years. Christopher Lee is dead too.

[Femina]

The Death Star had to fly over to a planet, park up, take aim and kablooie .

Don't forget the Deathstar did all that flying from place to place without any engines and was apparently a lot quicker than ships doing it - er...must've been the improved aerodynamics of being a giant round planet. Sorry, small moon.

Worst plot ever though was Anakin butchering a galaxy because he was having some bad dreams.

'I'm having trouble sleeping, bit worried something is gonna happen to Padme'

'Oh just kill everyone, it'll be fine.'

'Oh, ok.'


Yeah that makes sense. Lucas at his inspiring best.

See you're right, that's a bit daft, but that daftness pales alongside the daftness of those Super Deathstar projectiles being able to suddenly hit five planets, simultaneously, with complete surprise, from another planetary systems. I mean even if you buy the idea they can cover the distance and cannot be intercepted in any way, the idea they can't be detected, and that folks couldn't scramble the fleet to get away, it's just. GAH.

It's disappointing to say the least.

I suppose in truth the only reason the first movie battles make any sense is because they ripped them off from Dambusters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lNdb03Hw18M

It's important to remember when watching a Star Wars film or television show, or when reading Star Wars comic books, or when playing Star Wars video games that the Star Wars universe is Science Fiction FANTASY, not simply Science Fiction. The Fantasy being intrinsically tied to its genre is important, because its what account for things like the divergence of light speed with actual time and distance and the ability of light particle beams to destroy planetary systems from another planetary system. I always think of it this way. In Star Wars, sound travels in space, therefore space doesn't work the same in Star Wars. We know nothing about the intrinsic laws of the universe in Star Wars until we are told directly about them. Now they ordinarily attempt to keep things simple in regard to space travel, so some of the basics are implied (no air in space, can't survive out in the vacuum etc.) but in terms of what CAN or CAN'T be done, real world science cannot dictate because the story is a fantastical in nature.

That being said, in a universe where such a weapon can be made and could make the distance, it actually could never be detected or accounted for until it reached its destination because it is made of light, and therefore traveling as fast as anything can go, and therefore would only be detected when it literally made impact, it would just take so long to reach the destination it wouldn't be practical. In Star Wars, a beam can travel from one solar system to another fast enough to be a sound military statistic, and can also be observed approaching ahead of time.

[tallyho]

It's important to remember when watching a Star Wars film or television show, or when reading Star Wars comic books, or when playing Star Wars video games that the Star Wars universe is Science Fiction FANTASY, not simply Science Fiction.

Er,...actually I don't think it is very important to remember that, its just a film.

[tallyho]

Bring back Peter Cushing I say - cool, capable and full of quietly assured evil purpose, or Chris Lee who just oozed screen presence. Someone senior in years who actually knows how to act, not kids just still learning their craft.


Uhmmm... Peter Cushing has been dead for almost 15 years. Christopher Lee is dead too.

So was Richard Burton but he toured as a hologram in Jeff Wayne's War of the Worlds 18 years after he died. Both 'decease-ees' noted, that's why I went on to suggest someone like Charles Dance as being of that calibre of actor. Everyone knows us Brits make the best baddies!

[Heroine Addict]

someone like Charles Dance as being of that calibre of actor. Everyone knows us Brits make the best baddies!

Or maybe Ian Ogilvy? He must be one of the last men standing out of the Hammer/Amicus/Tigon crowd. Plus he's not well-known enough to stand out as stuntcasting.

[FallOutDweller]

The best baddies are british because the best goodies are either canadian or aussies.

[tallyho]

someone like Charles Dance as being of that calibre of actor. Everyone knows us Brits make the best baddies!

Or maybe Ian Ogilvy? He must be one of the last men standing out of the Hammer/Amicus/Tigon crowd. Plus he's not well-known enough to stand out as stuntcasting.

Think you need someone with that kind of craggy lived-in face, that looks like he's seen a lot and done anything to make it to the top of the evil empire ladder. Julian Glover could work (as he was the guy who lead the successful Walker attack on Hoth he'd be great instead of Gleeson's kid as he actually had an Empire victory under his belt). And he was great as the Bond villain Christatos in For Your Eyes Only. Though he is 81 now Chris Lee was older. But you only need him in 2/3 short scenes issuing a few orders and after that have the Disney kids running around doing all their little pretend evil and shit which isn't very evil. They can even carry on reporting to the big hologram guy sitting on the toilet (how evil is that?!)

[Dogfish]

Just get Alan Ford in to lead the Empire. I think the world is ready.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vskHXtPuvBk

[tallyho]

SHUT IT YOU SLAAAAAAAAG!

[Dogfish]

Feed 'im to the pigs, Errol.

[tallyho]

Feed 'im to the pigs, Errol.

Think you mean "Feed 'im to the farkin' pigs, Errol"

Or in this context,"Feed 'im to the farkin' banthas, Errol"

[Dogfish]

Feed 'im to the pigs, Errol.

Think you mean "Feed 'im to the farkin' pigs, Errol"

Or in this context,"Feed 'im to the farkin' banthas, Errol"

JABBA - *Miscellaneous Jabba The Hutt noises*

C3PO - "He says Master Luke's a nonce."

[Heroine Addict]

New trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frdj1zb9sMY

[Dazzle1]

I noticed how better things are getting now that George Lucas is kept far away from these new Star Wars projects. I honestly don't own, and probably never will, the 'prequels' and what very little I did see of them looked like he vomited CGI in every scene he could. I love what JJ Abrams did with episode 7 and his attention to detail, especially the flight scenes (vapor trails, heat contrails, realistic explosions, etc.) he just seemed to get the dynamics of flight down. The new Rogue One looks just as good and like someone said, the 'gritty' feel to it, with the perfect combination of classic and new. George 'selling his soul' to Disney was the best thing that could have happened to the Star Wars franchise, in my opinion

I respectfully disagree, Abrams ruined Star Wars with the unoriginal Force Awakens with the Mary Sue: Rey

[Heroine Addict]

I respectfully disagree, Abrams ruined Star Wars with the unoriginal Force Awakens with the Mary Sue: Rey

Don't all the Star Wars films have a Mary Sue / Marty Stu character who is a 'chosen' one?

At least nobody did a count of Rey's Midi-chlorians. Yipeeeeeee!

[Dazzle1]

I respectfully disagree, Abrams ruined Star Wars with the unoriginal Force Awakens with the Mary Sue: Rey

Don't all the Star Wars films have a Mary Sue / Marty Stu character who is a 'chosen' one?

At least nobody did a count of Rey's Midi-chlorians. Yipeeeeeee!

Luke had a lot to learn lost his first fight to Vader who dominated, this after being trained by Obi Wan and Yoda

Rey had no formal training beat Kylo Ren and with no training was able to fly the falcon.

[Heroine Addict]

Would this be the same Luke Skywalker who became an ace fighter pilot as soon as he joined the Rebel Alliance? The guy who took out the Death Star on his very first mission? The son of Anakin Skywalker, who could also pilot a fighter craft with no prior experience beyond pod-racing and also took out an enemy base on his very first flight?

No, nothing Marty Stu-ish about those Skywalkers. They were just ordinary guys.

[Dazzle1]

Would this be the same Luke Skywalker who became an ace fighter pilot as soon as he joined the Rebel Alliance? The guy who took out the Death Star on his very first mission? The son of Anakin Skywalker, who could also pilot a fighter craft with no prior experience beyond pod-racing and also took out an enemy base on his very first flight?

No, nothing Marty Stu-ish about those Skywalkers. They were just ordinary guys.

Luke was considered a top bush pilot, before joining.

Likewise Anakin won a race on Tatoonie

[Heroine Addict]

So a Tatooine farm worker and a Tatooine slave can just become ace starfighter pilots who can immediately destroy enemy bases? All because they were good at piloting unarmed vehicles on a planet with gravity?

It just seems bizarre to argue that Rey as a "Mary Sue" is some sort of betrayal of the franchise when her predecessors showed similarly amazing natural talents.

[Dogfish]

Would this be the same Luke Skywalker who became an ace fighter pilot as soon as he joined the Rebel Alliance? The guy who took out the Death Star on his very first mission? The son of Anakin Skywalker, who could also pilot a fighter craft with no prior experience beyond pod-racing and also took out an enemy base on his very first flight?

No, nothing Marty Stu-ish about those Skywalkers. They were just ordinary guys.

Luke was considered a top bush pilot, before joining.

Likewise Anakin won a race on Tatoonie

He's allowed to instantly become a super pilot because he's a Jedi. Just as Rey can do likewise. It's not inconsistent at all.